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NFT: Mets at Marlins Game 3 SWEEPS THREAD

ZGiants98 : 4/11/2018 6:01 pm
Mets Lineup

Asdrubal Cabrera 2B
Wilmer Flores 1B
Yoenis Cespedes LF
Todd Frazier 3B
Jay Bruce RF
Kevin Plawecki C
Amed Rosario SS
Juan Lagares CF
Zack Wheeler P
Marlins Lineup

Derek Dietrich LF
Miguel Rojas SS
Starlin Castro 2B
Justin Bour 1B
Brian Anderson 3B
Cameron Maybin RF
Lewis Brinson CF
Tim Wallach C
Jarlin Garcia P

Bummer about TDA today. Wheelz up! LGM!
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.  
arcarsenal : 4/11/2018 10:48 pm : link
We will hit a rough patch sooner or later - believe that.

We will probably lose 4-5 games in a row at some point. It's going to happen.

BUT. (And Mickey touched on this in his postgame) I think it's really been huge for the team to win this way early on - because it reinforces the idea that they should never hang their heads and that they're always alive.

There's a culture forming here that will bode well for when things get dicey.

Todd Frazier is going to be invaluable when we hit rough patches. The things he said tonight about accountability and no "me" players tonight - the guy is just such a pro. And it's sad that I'm so excited about this because it's something you should always have in your clubhouse. But unfortunately, this team has been missing players like this for a long time and he was sorely needed here.

Kudos to the FO for understanding that and addressing it.

I didn't give credit for it at the time - but it's evident now as to why it was done and I certainly think they deserve some praise for that.
z  
CMicks3110 : 4/11/2018 10:51 pm : link
our strength appears to be our depth, and our bullpen right now. We have played two series against the phillies and marlins, so i wouldn't go overboard. The 10 wins gives us a big cushion. But I don't think we're as good as our record is yet. I have my doubts about Harvey as an effective 3-4 starter, I think we've been more clutch than could be expected to continue. I DO think Lugo/Gsellman in the pen is having a very significant impact on this team. I also think Nimmo has to be back on this roster as soon as possible. I am really curious where Sandy makes moves down the line. I think we almost have to trade for an established catcher at some point. And if we're gunning for a deep run in the playoffs, I think we're going to need a strong #3 unless Matz/Harvey/Wheeler develop into one. Interesting summer ahead.
RE: z  
ZGiants98 : 4/11/2018 11:00 pm : link
In comment 13910432 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
our strength appears to be our depth, and our bullpen right now. We have played two series against the phillies and marlins, so i wouldn't go overboard. The 10 wins gives us a big cushion. But I don't think we're as good as our record is yet. I have my doubts about Harvey as an effective 3-4 starter, I think we've been more clutch than could be expected to continue. I DO think Lugo/Gsellman in the pen is having a very significant impact on this team. I also think Nimmo has to be back on this roster as soon as possible. I am really curious where Sandy makes moves down the line. I think we almost have to trade for an established catcher at some point. And if we're gunning for a deep run in the playoffs, I think we're going to need a strong #3 unless Matz/Harvey/Wheeler develop into one. Interesting summer ahead.


No team is as good as a 10-1 record. lol. That's like a .900 winning percentage. All Im saying is this team is loaded with talented players that arent playing well yet. We've basically been grinding and eeking out wins. I dont want to hear about the Marlins or Phillies either. Both teams put wins on the board against teams like the Cubs and we also beat the shit out of the Nats and Cardinals which are quality. Its hard to sweep ANY team in MLB. Obviosuly, we arent going to be playing at a 10-1 pace all year. All Im saying is this doesn't feel like a team playing over its head talent wise at all. It actually feels like its underachieving. And the pen is no joke. If Familia, Swarzak, Ramos, Gsellman, and Lugo stay healthy that pen will be lights out all year.
I m glad  
spike : 4/11/2018 11:01 pm : link
Eiland brought his KC Royals philosophy to this team.

Small ball, baserunning and bullpen win games. Much more than Homeruns alone
Dominic Smith with 2 doubles and a home run  
ZGiants98 : 4/11/2018 11:02 pm : link
so far tonight. Man what a great problem to have at 1B brewing.
Mets r on pace for a  
spike : 4/11/2018 11:02 pm : link
147-15 record

Realmuto isn't a difference maker relative to the prospect trade cost  
Eric on Li : 4/11/2018 11:07 pm : link
would much rather roll the dice on a veteran like Lucroy and not give up prospects. I am all for adding guys who are tough outs at the plate and play good D, but giving up one of the few premium prospects in the system for a .280 hitter who has never had more than 65 rbis (at any level) seems like a mistake. I know the catcher position sucks, but that wouldn't change the fact that he'd be hitting 7th or 8th in this lineup most nights.
RE: Mets r on pace for a  
JayBinQueens : 4/11/2018 11:08 pm : link
In comment 13910450 spike said:
Quote:
147-15 record

15 loses? Slackers
RE: Dominic Smith with 2 doubles and a home run  
Shecky : 4/11/2018 11:24 pm : link
In comment 13910449 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
so far tonight. Man what a great problem to have at 1B brewing.

Anyone find Nimmo?
shecky  
CMicks3110 : 4/11/2018 11:41 pm : link
why no gimenez for realmuto?
RE: Realmuto isn't a difference maker relative to the prospect trade cost  
ZGiants98 : 4/11/2018 11:47 pm : link
In comment 13910455 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
would much rather roll the dice on a veteran like Lucroy and not give up prospects. I am all for adding guys who are tough outs at the plate and play good D, but giving up one of the few premium prospects in the system for a .280 hitter who has never had more than 65 rbis (at any level) seems like a mistake. I know the catcher position sucks, but that wouldn't change the fact that he'd be hitting 7th or 8th in this lineup most nights.


Oh man. We are back to evaluating players on batting average and RBIs? Lucroy has been awful for over a year now. Realmuto is 27 years old coming off back to 3.5+ fWAR seasons. Lucroy is arguably a top 3 catcher in the sport if healthy. I know you love Lucroy but....

RE: RE: Dominic Smith with 2 doubles and a home run  
ZGiants98 : 4/11/2018 11:48 pm : link
In comment 13910486 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 13910449 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


so far tonight. Man what a great problem to have at 1B brewing.


Anyone find Nimmo?


Oh man. You are scaring me. lol
RE: RE: Realmuto isn't a difference maker relative to the prospect trade cost  
ZGiants98 : 4/11/2018 11:49 pm : link
In comment 13910502 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13910455 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


would much rather roll the dice on a veteran like Lucroy and not give up prospects. I am all for adding guys who are tough outs at the plate and play good D, but giving up one of the few premium prospects in the system for a .280 hitter who has never had more than 65 rbis (at any level) seems like a mistake. I know the catcher position sucks, but that wouldn't change the fact that he'd be hitting 7th or 8th in this lineup most nights.



Oh man. We are back to evaluating players on batting average and RBIs? Lucroy has been awful for over a year now. Realmuto is 27 years old coming off back to 3.5+ fWAR seasons. Lucroy is arguably a top 3 catcher in the sport if healthy. I know you love Lucroy but....


Supposed to say "Realmuto" is a top 3 catcher if healthy.
z  
CMicks3110 : 4/11/2018 11:50 pm : link
what do you think is a fair offer for realmuto? and do you expect the marlins to move him this summer?
RE: z  
ZGiants98 : 4/11/2018 11:56 pm : link
In comment 13910506 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
what do you think is a fair offer for realmuto? and do you expect the marlins to move him this summer?


Sure I could see them moving him. He has no place in their rebuild. Plus he wants out. I just assumed he would cost a lot since he has years of control left. Shecky says less Ill believe him though.
Mets on pace to go 147-15  
ZGiants98 : 4/12/2018 12:09 am : link
lol
Realmuto is the one trade asset the Marlins haven't been in a rush  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/12/2018 12:24 am : link
to sell off. I don't think it's going to be cheap to get him, or he would have been moved in the initial firesale with everyone else. He doesn't make any money yet and he's young enough to claim they're building around.
RE: Realmuto is the one trade asset the Marlins haven't been in a rush  
ZGiants98 : 4/12/2018 7:50 am : link
In comment 13910515 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
to sell off. I don't think it's going to be cheap to get him, or he would have been moved in the initial firesale with everyone else. He doesn't make any money yet and he's young enough to claim they're building around.


Heís actually older than most of the players they just traded away and the reason he hasnít been traded is heís injured. He hasnít played a single game.
Realmuto  
Metnut : 4/12/2018 9:26 am : link
would be a great fit for us and fill a big need but there's no rush. Let's give Plawecki and Nido a chance. Let's make sure Realmuto is healthy. Let's see who else is on the market.

The guy who should be most nervous after last night is Matt Harvey. If Wheeler pitches well against the Nats and Harvey throws another stinker on Saturday, it'll be hard to keep Wheeler out of the rotation.
RE: RE: Realmuto isn't a difference maker relative to the prospect trade cost  
Eric on Li : 4/12/2018 9:34 am : link
In comment 13910502 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13910455 Eric on Li said:


Quote:





Oh man. We are back to evaluating players on batting average and RBIs? Lucroy has been awful for over a year now. Realmuto is 27 years old coming off back to 3.5+ fWAR seasons. Lucroy is arguably a top 3 catcher in the sport if healthy. I know you love Lucroy but....


I don't dislike Realmuto but he isn't worth premium prospects. Pick any offensive stat you want he is a league average hitter. RC, XBH, OPS, OBP. I am not saying Lucroy is necessarily better, just similar and likely much cheaper to acquire. During Realmuto's back to back 3.5 WAR seasons Lucroy put up 1 better (4.6) and 1 worse (1.2), but even his worse season would have been better than any C on this roster in a few years.
Just to further illustrate the point  
Eric on Li : 4/12/2018 9:45 am : link
OPS over 16-17
Lucroy - .780 (.860. in 2016, .720 last year)
Realmuto - .775 (steady both years)

Total Defense (fangraphs)
Lucroy +21.9
Realmuto +22.9

Is it really worth giving up Gimenez or another really good prospect in the system for Realmuto? I'd much sooner ride with Plawecki for a little bit and just add a cheap veteran in a couple months if necessary.
I hope Plawecki and Nido  
spike : 4/12/2018 9:57 am : link
Would surprise and give us a lucky break
.  
arcarsenal : 4/12/2018 10:18 am : link
Realmuto wants out of there - he's going to force their hand eventually. Otherwise he's just going to be grumpy for the next 2 years.

If they were going to build around any of these guys, it would have been Ozuna and Yelich (they were never going to keep paying Stanton)

They won't be ready to compete for quite some time.

If Realmuto costs less than Gimenez, it's a no brainer.
RE: .  
ZGiants98 : 4/12/2018 10:20 am : link
In comment 13910819 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Realmuto wants out of there - he's going to force their hand eventually. Otherwise he's just going to be grumpy for the next 2 years.

If they were going to build around any of these guys, it would have been Ozuna and Yelich (they were never going to keep paying Stanton)

They won't be ready to compete for quite some time.

If Realmuto costs less than Gimenez, it's a no brainer.


+1.
Realmuto may cost too much  
Mike in NY : 4/12/2018 10:22 am : link
What about speaking to Colorado and see what they want for Tom Murphy? Buried in AAA right now, but I like his upside
.  
arcarsenal : 4/12/2018 10:34 am : link
If Plaw can get back into the lineup soon, I won't be terribly worried - I just think Realmuto makes a LOT of sense if the cost is reasonable. They're going to trade him - he really doesn't want to be there and there's really not much incentive to keep a grumpy player around who is just going to leave before they're ready to compete anyway.

I wouldn't mind checking in on Lucroy later on if OAK is looking to sell or even a lesser-known option like Murphy.

But if this team is going to make a push this year, we should be aggressive and try to upgrade that spot if an opportunity presents itself.
RE: .  
Eric on Li : 4/12/2018 12:04 pm : link
In comment 13910861 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
If Plaw can get back into the lineup soon, I won't be terribly worried - I just think Realmuto makes a LOT of sense if the cost is reasonable. They're going to trade him - he really doesn't want to be there and there's really not much incentive to keep a grumpy player around who is just going to leave before they're ready to compete anyway.

I wouldn't mind checking in on Lucroy later on if OAK is looking to sell or even a lesser-known option like Murphy.

But if this team is going to make a push this year, we should be aggressive and try to upgrade that spot if an opportunity presents itself.


All for being aggressive, just don't want to give up our top prospects unless a real impact player is coming back (like the Cespedes deal in '15 or the Andrew Miller/Chapman deals for Cubs/Indians). If it's a Casey Meisner or Dilson Herrera level prospect by all means. Realmuto is still cheap and with the injury his value is down so I don't expect the Fish to be in a rush to accept a cheap return.
RE: .  
spike : 4/12/2018 2:41 pm : link
In comment 13910819 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Realmuto wants out of there - he's going to force their hand eventually. Otherwise he's just going to be grumpy for the next 2 years.

If they were going to build around any of these guys, it would have been Ozuna and Yelich (they were never going to keep paying Stanton)

They won't be ready to compete for quite some time.

If Realmuto costs less than Gimenez, it's a no brainer.


the Marlins will keep costs waaay low for many years to recoup some money from their exorbitant purchase.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 4/12/2018 5:57 pm : link
In comment 13911084 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13910861 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


If Plaw can get back into the lineup soon, I won't be terribly worried - I just think Realmuto makes a LOT of sense if the cost is reasonable. They're going to trade him - he really doesn't want to be there and there's really not much incentive to keep a grumpy player around who is just going to leave before they're ready to compete anyway.

I wouldn't mind checking in on Lucroy later on if OAK is looking to sell or even a lesser-known option like Murphy.

But if this team is going to make a push this year, we should be aggressive and try to upgrade that spot if an opportunity presents itself.



All for being aggressive, just don't want to give up our top prospects unless a real impact player is coming back (like the Cespedes deal in '15 or the Andrew Miller/Chapman deals for Cubs/Indians). If it's a Casey Meisner or Dilson Herrera level prospect by all means. Realmuto is still cheap and with the injury his value is down so I don't expect the Fish to be in a rush to accept a cheap return.


Oh yeah, I think we mostly agree - I'm not looking to give up a huge haul. I just think that if it's possible to get him without needing to include Gimenez and a lesser package works, I would do it.

Just seems to make a lot of sense to check in and see if he's acquirable.
RE: RE: .  
Shecky : 4/12/2018 6:02 pm : link
In comment 13911570 spike said:
Quote:
In comment 13910819 arcarsenal said:


.



the Marlins will keep costs waaay low for many years to recoup some money from their exorbitant purchase.


Theyíre doing fine financially. No need to cut costs further when you DOUBLE A ball club outdraws your MAJOR LEAGUE club. While a New York team is in town nonetheless...
FYI Fangraphs is in Nimmo's corner  
sshin05 : 4/12/2018 6:17 pm : link
Makes a compelling argument for him.
Free Nimmo! - ( New Window )
RE: FYI Fangraphs is in Nimmo's corner  
JayBinQueens : 4/12/2018 6:53 pm : link
In comment 13912007 sshin05 said:
Quote:
Makes a compelling argument for him. Free Nimmo! - ( New Window )

I think everyone agrees nimmo played well enough to stay up. He has options though and they needed arms. I think he'll be up relatively soon
Nimmo has to get back up and get in the OF  
ZGiants98 : 4/12/2018 7:02 pm : link
rotation. Iím sorry but heís more valuable than getting Sewald one appearance every two weeks.

With Lugo and Gsellman in the pen there is no reason we also need a 8 man pen.
Man I miss baseball tonight...  
ZGiants98 : 4/12/2018 7:03 pm : link
BOO!
RE: Nimmo has to get back up and get in the OF  
Mike in NY : 4/12/2018 7:04 pm : link
In comment 13912037 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
rotation. Iím sorry but heís more valuable than getting Sewald one appearance every two weeks.

With Lugo and Gsellman in the pen there is no reason we also need a 8 man pen.


Against righties and no DH there is no space unless our 1B are struggling
.  
arcarsenal : 4/12/2018 7:06 pm : link
It's dicey - he really deserves to be up here right now. But if we can't get him regular PT here, I don't want him to rot away on the bench. He needs to keep playing whether it's here or Vegas.

There's really not much we can do. Conforto and Cespedes should be playing every day. Bruce is only going to sit if it's a really tough lefty or he needs a maintenance day.

AGon has been really good so far too - so we can't even put Bruce at 1B to open up a spot for Nimmo.

And then there's Lagares who we can use against lefties and will come in for late game defense when we're protecting leads.

I just don't see how Mickey can possibly get Nimmo the AB's he deserves right now. It sucks for Brandon but there's really no easy answer.
The more I think about it the more I want  
ZGiants98 : 4/12/2018 7:06 pm : link
Vargas in the pen too. Lugo, Gsellman, and Vargas will make our 7 man pen look like 10. That soft tossing lefty will probably look great coming in after a bunch of hard throwing righties. Darren Oliver 2.0.
RE: The more I think about it the more I want  
arcarsenal : 4/12/2018 7:09 pm : link
In comment 13912046 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Vargas in the pen too. Lugo, Gsellman, and Vargas will make our 7 man pen look like 10. That soft tossing lefty will probably look great coming in after a bunch of hard throwing righties. Darren Oliver 2.0.


That's what I want too - Wheeler looked fucking awesome and if the adjustment he made was the reason, he might have a better year than both Matz AND Harvey. He looked fantastic.

Vargas definitely didn't sign here to be a long man and I have a feeling he'd be miffed at it - but hey. Either buy in or get lost. Frazier said it last night... no "me" guys here. Everyone is a team player
RE: RE: Nimmo has to get back up and get in the OF  
ZGiants98 : 4/12/2018 7:11 pm : link
In comment 13912042 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13912037 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


rotation. Iím sorry but heís more valuable than getting Sewald one appearance every two weeks.

With Lugo and Gsellman in the pen there is no reason we also need a 8 man pen.



Against righties and no DH there is no space unless our 1B are struggling


No space for what? There is zero reason why every person in our OF and AGone canít get one day off a week (Bruce slides over) but forget about that. Nimmo is an impossible out late in the game coming off the bench. Who on our bench do you bring in to face a tough righty right now?
I just think itís a 162 game season  
ZGiants98 : 4/12/2018 7:14 pm : link
Cespedes and Bruce are in their 30s, AGone is 35 coming off a year with a bad back, Conforto is easing back after a shoulder injury. Why canít these guys get one day off a week?

I know we all want to see the ďA lineupĒ every day but the season is 6 months long and these guys play every day. Keep everyone fresh.
It's week 2 of the season.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/12/2018 7:17 pm : link
There'll be plenty of time off.
RE: RE: The more I think about it the more I want  
ZGiants98 : 4/12/2018 7:17 pm : link
In comment 13912048 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13912046 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Vargas in the pen too. Lugo, Gsellman, and Vargas will make our 7 man pen look like 10. That soft tossing lefty will probably look great coming in after a bunch of hard throwing righties. Darren Oliver 2.0.



That's what I want too - Wheeler looked fucking awesome and if the adjustment he made was the reason, he might have a better year than both Matz AND Harvey. He looked fantastic.

Vargas definitely didn't sign here to be a long man and I have a feeling he'd be miffed at it - but hey. Either buy in or get lost. Frazier said it last night... no "me" guys here. Everyone is a team player


Yup exactly. Heís an older guy and throws junk. I envision a rubber like Colon arm. You canít send Wheeler down if he keeps pitching he way he is and Callaway made it seem like he was damn excited for Wheelers next start against the Nats. You in essence are still keeping Vargas for SP depth. He can slide into the rotation at any time if a pitcher goes down or faulters.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/12/2018 7:18 pm : link
They can - I'd be fine with that. I just think even still it would be kind of hard to juggle.

But if Mickey could get Nimmo 3-4 starts a week, I'd love for him to be back up. Kid is putting together some great AB's and looks like he's taking the next step
I think another part of it is that I no longer think  
ZGiants98 : 4/12/2018 7:22 pm : link
Nimmo is "developing". I think the dude has arrived. I almost consider him as good as most of the guys we are talking about him replacing and all 4 of them are former all-stars. Nimmo just looks polished all of the sudden. No more deer in the headlights. Just relaxed and knows he belongs. I dont really feel like there is much for him to do in Vegas.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/12/2018 7:32 pm : link
Yeah, I think my concern would just be that if there's not enough AB's for him here it could kind of "stall" his development at a time where he seems to really be putting it together.

I'm sure he can still improve from here. I just don't want to stunt him when he's in a really good spot developmentally.

This stuff always has a way of working itself out, though...

Just keep winning.
RE: I just think itís a 162 game season  
spike : 4/12/2018 7:45 pm : link
In comment 13912058 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Cespedes and Bruce are in their 30s, AGone is 35 coming off a year with a bad back, Conforto is easing back after a shoulder injury. Why canít these guys get one day off a week?

I know we all want to see the ďA lineupĒ every day but the season is 6 months long and these guys play every day. Keep everyone fresh.


U need all your depth to play 162 games plus postseason
.  
ZGiants98 : 4/12/2018 8:21 pm : link
RE: .  
arcarsenal : 4/12/2018 9:33 pm : link
In comment 13912161 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:


LOL, I can hear the sound in my head..

"UUHHHHHHHHHH"
The way Nimmo works the count  
sshin05 : 4/12/2018 11:09 pm : link
coming back from 0-2 to full to getting on base one way or another, he's probably the best guy at the top of the lineup. If he can figure out lefties just a little, he can be an everyday player. If A-gon's age actually catches up to him this year, its feasible to put bruce at first and start conforto and nimmo every day. In the end, there's nothing wrong with having a good amount of depth once injuries occur.
I know I won't get my wish...  
ZGiants98 : 4/12/2018 11:22 pm : link
But I still start Nimmo 4 days a week and he's my main pinch hitter in the other 2-3 games. I agree injuries will happen but I still have Nimmo up now rotating in and out with guys. He's a sparkplug off the bench and seems to be awesome in the clubhouse.

I also agree though that if they are not inclined to do that and want to start Conforto, Cespedes, Bruce, and AGone every day then that won't cut it either.

Great problem to have I guess.

We are starting to get logjams all over the roster. Like I've mentioned when everyone's back there is a good chance Sewald, Robles, and Rhame all have to head back to AAA. The rotation has a bunch of guys deserving of spots on the outside looking in.

Smith with 2 doubles last night and a HR is likely going to make things very interesting on AGone eventually.

Heck, Cecchini and his supposed fixed swing is hitting in Vegas although it's very early.

Really the only issue is catcher and it's a brand new issue due to injury. Lot's of interesting situations developing though.
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