The Bengals are OK with guys like Mixon and his KO of a girl on video. That gets you drafted in round 2 in 2017.
Reid goes there and the Bengals owner has a problem and won't sign him because of his protests.
The entire NFL is full of shit. And the NFLPA isn't doing shit about it either.
Where is the outrage with the treatment of Reid?
Kapernick? You could blame it on his struggles as a passer, not fitting the scheme, and game plan issues as a backup.
Reid? He's in his prime. He can play on any team and help you win right now. There are no excuses with this player. There is no reason a 26 year old S/LB of his skill doesn't have plenty of action right now.
Why aren't teams signing him? Why aren't the Giants signing him? Who is asking this question to the NYG? I want to hear the answer from them.
Reid could play with Collins. He could move up to LB. Play S. And give us a lot of flexibility. Why aren't the Giants bringing him in? Because he took a knee during the anthem? This guy's livelihood is being ripped from him because of it while the NFL has no problem signing guys like Hardy, Mixon, etc.
"Why aren't you bringing in Eric Reid?"
I want this question answered clearly by the NYG. He can help the team and he can be signed at a bargain because of this BS. But they still don't even bring him in? Why?
Hardy kidnaps a woman gets a 2nd chance. Little kills a woman and gets to play again. This the NFL can work with. But Reid gets screwed for what? And he said he won't do it again.
But he can't even get in the door for a talk with teams that need S help like our NYG?
Its ridiculous. I can't believe our NTG won't see this as a guranteeed opportunity to improve that horseshit product they put on the field last year.
The Giants traded JPP and kept Olivier Vernon.
Your argument that the Giants (and many other teams) are discriminating doesn't hold water.
But this is the victim mentality.
well, except the notorious Bengals owner who everyone already knew was bat-shit.
How was his play the past few years? Is he above average at his position? I havent really followed, other than knowing he was originally a high draft pick.
I do think this "protest" was stupid - you dont do this on company time. But i also think all the forced patriotism at sports events in general - is equally stupid. Makes no sense why sports events are where everyone has to thank the troops and pledge allegiance to the flag. Why not at the beginning of a movie or when you begin your work day?
Or even offered a contract?
Answer that question
The Giants traded JPP and kept Olivier Vernon.
Your argument that the Giants (and many other teams) are discriminating doesn't hold water.
But this is the victim mentality.
Give me a break. Explain why this guy isnt signed?
Makes. No. Sense.
But players who kneel have been signed around the NFL and have been kept.
You people falling for a false media narrative.
KWALL says the Giants are discriminating against kneelers yet they just signed a much less talent player (at least from a fan perspective). So in your world, why would they have done that if they are a bunch reactionary thugs in your book?
They traded an older player coming off a subpar year and a guy with a disability. And kept the better and younger player. What does this tell us about the NYH? Nothing.
"Victim mentality"? Explain that one.
This is an excellent young player. He hasn't seen a contract offer.
Nobody is playing victim here. Explain why he hasn't seen a contract offer?
KWALL2 : 11:24 am : link : reply
Then why isn't Eric Reid signed?
Or even offered a contract?
Answer that question
Do you really expect fans or people who haven't evaluated Reid as needing to understand why a guy isn't signed? Do you know he hasn't been offered a contract?
Stuff like this may be BS, but claiming that it is simply because the guy isn't signed is jumping the gun a bit.
Sure, a few people might be disillusioned and not watch because of him.
However, publicly protesting the anthem in uniform on game day in front of the country, will cause a large portion of the fan base to tune out, and boycott. Some of these people will never come back. If a lot of Giants players did this without repercussion, I would be one of them.
Further, any repercussion against that player for the offending action will likewise cause a boycott from the other half of the population that agrees with him, therefore the player puts the organization in a no-win situation in which losing money and customers is the only outcome.
The player is affecting the bottom line of a company the player has the smallest stake in.
How about you start a business, grow it to be a significant fixture in your town, and then, one of your employees stands out in front of your building, wearing your company clothes with your logo, and starts protesting and potraying a view that is offensive to half of your customers.
Whether you agreed with the employee or not, I bet you'd fire him, because he just hurt your business significantly, taking money not only out of your pocket, but the pockets of everyone else who relies on you to write them checks.
It's incredibly selfish and wrong to just say you are going to represent an organization on a political issue one way without any input from that organization and they will simply just have to deal with it.
The only recourse for the NFL is to wait it out, and not re-sign the player, because nobody can force a team to choose to hire an individual, and there is plausibly other reasons other than the political position in which any individual team might give as a reason for not seeking an employment contract with the player.
In summary, he made his bed, he's lying in it, and each one of these players, in my opinion, have gotten off way too easy by the NFL and their member teams.
Why isn't this player signed?
Or even offered a contract?
Answer that question
Why was Michael Thomas signed.
Answer that question.
(See how stupid that logic is?)
WTF does that mean?
But let’s see where this rabbithole goes.
But what is Eric Reid's character flaw in this instance? I think it's pretty clear what's going on here, unfortunately.
But let’s see where this rabbithole goes.
Not sure why this is terribly difficult for you to understand. KWALL is asserting that Eric Reid hasn't been signed by the Giants because he's a victim of discrimination. Again, where there is no evidence that the Giants have discriminating against kneelers. (I would argue the opposite...Mara and the Giants seem to have been supportive). But facts be damned, the Giants discriminate and Reid is a victim!
I’m talking about this player. I know what he can do and I know what the league values in a player but no contract and even the Bengals and their team of convicts have an issue.
Michael Thomas was very vocal in Miami. Just Google it.
WTF does that mean? [/quote]
It means that, in my opinion, the first time they did this, they should've been released. The NFL should've nipped this in the bud right from the get-go. The NFL is in the football/entertainment business, and politics shouldn't have ever been given a platform on the field. At minimum, significant suspensions should've been given if not outright release.
Yes, because the narrative is not believed by at least half the population. It absolutely is political.
But players who kneel have been signed around the NFL and have been kept.
You people falling for a false media narrative.
KWALL says the Giants are discriminating against kneelers yet they just signed a much less talent player (at least from a fan perspective). So in your world, why would they have done that if they are a bunch reactionary thugs in your book?
Reid was one of the very first to join Kaepernick and was very vocal about it. I had no idea Thomas even knelt. That is the difference.
If it bares no weight on whether the Bengals sign him, then why did they ask him about it.
But let’s see where this rabbithole goes.
Then you may be an idiot because Eric is 100% correct and you probably are too dumb to get it.
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it suggests there's probably more going on the public isn't aware of.
But what is Eric Reid's character flaw in this instance? I think it's pretty clear what's going on here, unfortunately.
We don't often know the whole story is all I'm saying, there could be more going on and often it is the case. I don't know the background here.
But players who kneel have been signed around the NFL and have been kept.
You people falling for a false media narrative.
KWALL says the Giants are discriminating against kneelers yet they just signed a much less talent player (at least from a fan perspective). So in your world, why would they have done that if they are a bunch reactionary thugs in your book?
Had the Giants knew vernon would kneel they may not have signed him and getting rid of him is impossible so your example doesnt hold weight.
Makes. No. Sense.
Is it too much to ask that they stand for 2 minutes in a country where they are making a ton of money to play a game? Ovechkin has made millions of dollars here. I don't think 2 minutes a game or 160 minutes a year is too much to ask for.
and the safety position is a devalued position.
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In comment 13910975 JonC said:
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it suggests there's probably more going on the public isn't aware of.
But what is Eric Reid's character flaw in this instance? I think it's pretty clear what's going on here, unfortunately.
We don't often know the whole story is all I'm saying, there could be more going on and often it is the case. I don't know the background here.
Fair. But we know that based on his play on the field, he's worthy of at least being on a roster. In my opinion it's not too difficult to connect the dots here.
this thread will not last through lunch.
It's not a "narrative," it's reality.
I know that most likely wasn't your intention, and it's a shame that people are trying to act like you're incorrect - but, on this site, any mention of "good ole 'Merica" in either light never bodes well.
The Giants just signed one of the prominent kneeler... a special teams ace but a very ordinary defensive back.
Players who kneel have been signed and remain under contract throughout the NFL.
But because Reid is unsigned (for whatever reason), it proves that the Mara, Tisch, and the other NFL owners are what? Bigots? Is that what you are saying?
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Perhaps he beats his dog. Who the hell knows.
But players who kneel have been signed around the NFL and have been kept.
You people falling for a false media narrative.
KWALL says the Giants are discriminating against kneelers yet they just signed a much less talent player (at least from a fan perspective). So in your world, why would they have done that if they are a bunch reactionary thugs in your book?
Reid was one of the very first to join Kaepernick and was very vocal about it. I had no idea Thomas even knelt. That is the difference.
If it bares no weight on whether the Bengals sign him, then why did they ask him about it.
Exactly. And Reid continued to do so and split from the players' coalition that negotiated with the owners for substantial donations to so-called charitable organizations that support this so-called cause. Reid basically gave the owners and the player coalition a middle finger even though the owners dipped into their pockets on something they had no obligation to do, and in the wake of actions that have already hurt them financially. They aren't very good businessmen, IMO. You fire those employees. And if you lose some good employees, fine. There will always be people that want to play a game for million dollar salaries.
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How the hell do you extrapolate OP’s comments into some generalization about being a victim?
But let’s see where this rabbithole goes.
Then you may be an idiot because Eric is 100% correct and you probably are too dumb to get it.
Don’t make me laugh.
I believe that Eric Reid is one of the people that has protested pretty much the entire time since Kaep was released. He might be viewed as a leader, and keeping him out might be a way for the league to cut the head off the snake sorta speak.
So sure other protesters have been signed, but they aren't the leaders of the protests, they are more followers then anything else.
I know that most likely wasn't your intention, and it's a shame that people are trying to act like you're incorrect - but, on this site, any mention of "good ole 'Merica" in either light never bodes well.
Pretty much this. I’ve been long enough to know which way the majority on this site leans. But the ignorance never ceases to amaze me.
The Giants just signed one of the prominent kneeler... a special teams ace but a very ordinary defensive back.
Players who kneel have been signed and remain under contract throughout the NFL.
But because Reid is unsigned (for whatever reason), it proves that the Mara, Tisch, and the other NFL owners are what? Bigots? Is that what you are saying?
That's not at all what he's saying but that's the way you want to take it because it supports your 'victim mentality' line of thinking.
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Yes, because the narrative is not believed by at least half the population. It absolutely is political.
It's not a "narrative," it's reality.
The narrative is that they are being gunned down because of their racial identity, which is absolutely not true. And it's a narrative formed strictly because of media coverage. People of other racial identities get shot by cops as well, even killed, all the time, and its because of their actions. They aren't protests, and there isn't media coverage either. Daniel Shaver was gunned down in a hotel lobby in 2016, you can watch the body cam footage, it was pretty bad, in fact, way worse than any of the other high profile shootings, as Shaver was actually attempting to comply. Officer was acquitted, and in my mind, it was a miscarriage of justice. However, no media coverage, no protests. Russell Bowman was just gunned down. There will be no protests, and no outrage, because he's not the certain shade of skin color that would require that, and, he charged an officer so people will say he caused himself to be shot and it was justified.
It astonishes me that you guys can't even see how the NFL has bent over backwards to accommodate this sensitive issue, especially when other businesses would simply have shut this down from the start.
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In comment 13910981 2ndroundKO said:
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How the hell do you extrapolate OP’s comments into some generalization about being a victim?
But let’s see where this rabbithole goes.
Then you may be an idiot because Eric is 100% correct and you probably are too dumb to get it.
Don’t make me laugh.
Well, I think you made it pretty clear you aren't exactly honor roll material.
this thread will not last through lunch.
'...through lunch.'
We can only hope.
Because if you connect point A to point B, he seems to be suggesting that the reason the Giants haven't offered Eric Reid a contract is that Mara and Tisch hate the protestors and their views. (Again, I would argue the opposite based on Mara and Tisch's actions and words).
Absolutely, and we have the right to point out how ridiculous it is for owners to hand second chances to wife-beaters and animal-torturers while blacklisting Kaep. I'll say it again: Brandon Weeden is currently on an NFL roster.
The Giants just signed one of the prominent kneeler... a special teams ace but a very ordinary defensive back.
Players who kneel have been signed and remain under contract throughout the NFL.
But because Reid is unsigned (for whatever reason), it proves that the Mara, Tisch, and the other NFL owners are what? Bigots? Is that what you are saying?
Eric
You're making some valid points but the profile of the guys they've signed who have knelt are very low. Nobody knew these guys knelt. Reid was right in the middle of the Kap controversy.
Ultimately every situation is different. I didnt mention the Giants directly but based on the OP it could seem I'm agreeing with his criticism of the Giants. That Reid and Kapernick are still unsigned is proof that enough owners are unwilling to sign these guys because of their kneeling. That in itself is bullshit.
Meanwhile, Reuben Foster is facing 11 years in prison for beating the crap out of a female. He'll be in a 49er uniform this season.
The fact that you presume that such inaction doesn't have to do with his kneeling is ludicrous.
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In comment 13911003 allstarjim said:
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Yes, because the narrative is not believed by at least half the population. It absolutely is political.
It's not a "narrative," it's reality.
The narrative is that they are being gunned down because of their racial identity, which is absolutely not true. And it's a narrative formed strictly because of media coverage. People of other racial identities get shot by cops as well, even killed, all the time, and its because of their actions. They aren't protests, and there isn't media coverage either. Daniel Shaver was gunned down in a hotel lobby in 2016, you can watch the body cam footage, it was pretty bad, in fact, way worse than any of the other high profile shootings, as Shaver was actually attempting to comply. Officer was acquitted, and in my mind, it was a miscarriage of justice. However, no media coverage, no protests. Russell Bowman was just gunned down. There will be no protests, and no outrage, because he's not the certain shade of skin color that would require that, and, he charged an officer so people will say he caused himself to be shot and it was justified.
This perspective is so funny to me because it suggests that since other people aren't protesting for when a white person gets gunned down, that means it's not an issue. Maybe a better question should be, why aren't YOU protesting police brutality against any race then?
Yeah I know... I know... fake news and all....
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In comment 13911007 allstarjim said:
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In comment 13910981 2ndroundKO said:
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How the hell do you extrapolate OP’s comments into some generalization about being a victim?
But let’s see where this rabbithole goes.
Then you may be an idiot because Eric is 100% correct and you probably are too dumb to get it.
Don’t make me laugh.
Well, I think you made it pretty clear you aren't exactly honor roll material.
Still the optics of this whole mess stinks IMO. If teams are willing to sign some really bad people who have done some truly terrible things, then they shouldn't have a problem with a guy who is only guilty of exercising his constitutional rights as an American.
The fact that you presume that such inaction doesn't have to do with his kneeling is ludicrous.
Again, your views are not supported by the overwhelming amount of contradictory evidence. You saying the same thing over and over again is not going to change those facts.
If a bunch of kneelers around the league were not signed and/or cut, your views would carry more weight.
Do you think John Mara told Dave Gettleman not to sign Eric Reid?
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what is so hard to understand in these cases. Players have the right to protest, owners have a right to not employ someone for those actions. The NFL is a private entity. It is as simple as that
Absolutely, and we have the right to point out how ridiculous it is for owners to hand second chances to wife-beaters and animal-torturers while blacklisting Kaep. I'll say it again: Brandon Weeden is currently on an NFL roster.
You are equating things that do not have a significant impact on the bottom line with things that DO have a significant impact on a bottom line. That's what is ridiculous. What do you think matters most to owners?
Because if you connect point A to point B, he seems to be suggesting that the reason the Giants haven't offered Eric Reid a contract is that Mara and Tisch hate the protestors and their views. (Again, I would argue the opposite based on Mara and Tisch's actions and words).
What he is saying is that in a league where there have been protests and complaints about the character of some of the players who they've allowed to continue playing in the NFL, it's interesting that when it comes to THIS particular protest... it can't be allowed for fear of losing fans. Of course... that says A LOT about the mentality of fans as well but whatever. Fact is the whole protest was started to bring awareness to an issue that's been going on for decades and even with the awareness being raised you STILL have people who deny that it happens... for whatever reasons only they know.
He's not suggesting that the NFL owners are bigots themselves but that the hypocrisy shown by them when it comes to what kind of characters they'll allow to play in their league.
Still the optics of this whole mess stinks IMO. If teams are willing to sign some really bad people who have done some truly terrible things, then they shouldn't have a problem with a guy who is only guilty of exercising his constitutional rights as an American.
They would, but a good portion of fans would get upset. I mean look at the outrage...over kneeling. And so when we think of how these kind of decisions affect the owner’s bottom line, there you have it.
It astonishes me that you guys can't even see how the NFL has bent over backwards to accommodate this sensitive issue, especially when other businesses would simply have shut this down from the start.
I agree the NFL owners have helped support the cause; however, it's not rocket science that they absolutely hate doing it.
The Union would absolutely go crazy if they didn't support them.
It's bad business for the NFL, and if they get rid of the leader, the bad business goes away.
According to multiple reports, the Bengals brought Reid in with every intention of adding him to their roster, as new defensive coordinator Teryl Austin was supposedly excited about the possibility of adding him to his secondary. Reid took a physical and even watched game film with the coaching staff.
But then team owner Mike Brown personally met with Reid to inquire about the kneeling, not football. Mind you, Reid, who was the first teammate to take a knee next to Colin Kaepernick during the 2016 season, is on the record for saying that he no longer plans to kneel or do any other demonstrations during the anthem.
So, when Reid didn't have any definitive answers for Brown for what his future plans were, you can see where head coach Marvin Lewis, the longest-tenured black coach in NFL history, was going when he asked Reid if he wanted to clarify any statements he made to ownership.
"Dude, if you want this job. I suggest you tell the owner that you're kneeling days are over."
Reid made no clarifications to Brown, which is why he's still without a job.
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what is so hard to understand in these cases. Players have the right to protest, owners have a right to not employ someone for those actions. The NFL is a private entity. It is as simple as that
Absolutely, and we have the right to point out how ridiculous it is for owners to hand second chances to wife-beaters and animal-torturers while blacklisting Kaep. I'll say it again: Brandon Weeden is currently on an NFL roster.
There's no denying owners are hypocrites. Brandon weeden is on a roster because he's cheap and hasn't done anything to cost owners money. that's the bottom line. Those other players got a 2nd chance because there was a chance they could help win games. It's all about risk vs reward, and some guys aren't worth the risk
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According to multiple reports, the Bengals brought Reid in with every intention of adding him to their roster, as new defensive coordinator Teryl Austin was supposedly excited about the possibility of adding him to his secondary. Reid took a physical and even watched game film with the coaching staff.
But then team owner Mike Brown personally met with Reid to inquire about the kneeling, not football. Mind you, Reid, who was the first teammate to take a knee next to Colin Kaepernick during the 2016 season, is on the record for saying that he no longer plans to kneel or do any other demonstrations during the anthem.
So, when Reid didn't have any definitive answers for Brown for what his future plans were, you can see where head coach Marvin Lewis, the longest-tenured black coach in NFL history, was going when he asked Reid if he wanted to clarify any statements he made to ownership.
"Dude, if you want this job. I suggest you tell the owner that you're kneeling days are over."
Reid made no clarifications to Brown, which is why he's still without a job.
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Darn victim’s mentality costing him work.
He wants a long term deal like they all do but said he would sign a one year deal.
The S position is not “devalued” when you can play several positions like Reid.
It’s about talent, scheme fit, etc like it can be said about Kapernick.
It’s not an age thing since he’s only 26.
But he hasn’t had a contract offer.
That isn’t playing victim. I’d like to know why our team is passing on this opportunity to improve the team.
More than any other sport/business that I can think of, they have allowed their business to suffer hundreds of millions of dollars in lost business in order to accommodate the protestors. Greedy and insensitive ownership could have shut this down from the beginning, and they would have been within their legal rights to do so. But they didn't. They stood by the players. They listened. And they have actually given millions of dollars now to support the causes that the players support. And the NFL is still hemorrhaging money because of it.
Yet no matter what the NFL does, it isn't good enough.
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In comment 13911019 bceagle05 said:
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In comment 13911003 allstarjim said:
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Yes, because the narrative is not believed by at least half the population. It absolutely is political.
It's not a "narrative," it's reality.
The narrative is that they are being gunned down because of their racial identity, which is absolutely not true. And it's a narrative formed strictly because of media coverage. People of other racial identities get shot by cops as well, even killed, all the time, and its because of their actions. They aren't protests, and there isn't media coverage either. Daniel Shaver was gunned down in a hotel lobby in 2016, you can watch the body cam footage, it was pretty bad, in fact, way worse than any of the other high profile shootings, as Shaver was actually attempting to comply. Officer was acquitted, and in my mind, it was a miscarriage of justice. However, no media coverage, no protests. Russell Bowman was just gunned down. There will be no protests, and no outrage, because he's not the certain shade of skin color that would require that, and, he charged an officer so people will say he caused himself to be shot and it was justified.
This perspective is so funny to me because it suggests that since other people aren't protesting for when a white person gets gunned down, that means it's not an issue. Maybe a better question should be, why aren't YOU protesting police brutality against any race then?
Yeah I know... I know... fake news and all....
Why am I not protesting? 1) I don't have an issue with criminals who intentionally make a dangerous situation for cops trying to do their jobs getting shot, which is the vast majority of these cases.
2) In the VERY few examples in which the police shooting was very clearly excessive and unnecessary, we have a justice system that evaluates the facts and criminal charges, due process, and hopefully, prosecution and justice follows, as in the case of Walter Scott. In some cases, due process results in a jury finding the offending officer not guilty. Although we may disagree, and I do, often, our system of government and justice was built upon some of the guilty going free in favor of more of the innocent being incarcerated. Any time there is injustice it sucks, but at minimum, a jury heard both arguments and at least the offender was tried for their alleged crime.
3) I have a job and because of points 1) and 2), it is not
important to me at all.
The owners were well within their legal right to stop this from becoming an issue from the start. But they didn't. They actually showed a great deal of sensitivity. It's stunning you can't see and/or appreciate it.
More than any other sport/business that I can think of, they have allowed their business to suffer hundreds of millions of dollars in lost business in order to accommodate the protestors. Greedy and insensitive ownership could have shut this down from the beginning, and they would have been within their legal rights to do so. But they didn't. They stood by the players. They listened. And they have actually given millions of dollars now to support the causes that the players support. And the NFL is still hemorrhaging money because of it.
Yet no matter what the NFL does, it isn't good enough.
Eric
These are PR moves. They're playing both sides. Tax write off donations that are literally pennies to them but they're making examples of the two biggest "culprits" in the kneeling scandal.
I think age definitely will play a part in how you view this. I'm in my early 30s...my guess is you're in your fifties and up?
WAPO NFL $90 MIL FOR PROTESTS - ( New Window )
Reid was one of the very first to join Kaepernick and was very vocal about it. I had no idea Thomas even knelt. That is the difference.
If it bares no weight on whether the Bengals sign him, then why did they ask him about it.
Right... I didn't even know who Michael Thomas was until the Giants signed him. It's certainly reasonable to wonder if he would have been signed if he had the higher profile of Reid.
Those who support the protestors should be thrilled with how the NFL has bent over backwards to accommodate this issue. But if this thread is any evidence, the contrary appears to be the case.
Stunning.
Every NFL team has a right to do what's best for their business.
You may even find an owner who agrees with the cause but would still shy away from a player associated with it.
Such is life in business and with one's money.
There are no victims here.
Kenny Vaccarro
Mike Mitchell
Eric Reid
Tre Boston
Ricardo Allen
I think this is less of a kneeling issue that OP makes it out to be. All these guys are unsigned because Eric Reid knelt?
Are all good enough to be on a roster. As mentioned above, Brandon Weedens on a roster for gods sake. The safety market has had little movement. This has been the case since FA opened.
To say that guys that have knelt aren't viewed in a different light would be naive.. but I'm seeing a safeties as a whole not being signed
He wants a long term deal like they all do but said he would sign a one year deal.
The S position is not “devalued” when you can play several positions like Reid.
It’s about talent, scheme fit, etc like it can be said about Kapernick.
It’s not an age thing since he’s only 26.
But he hasn’t had a contract offer.
That isn’t playing victim. I’d like to know why our team is passing on this opportunity to improve the team.
How do you know about the fact that he hasn't been offered a contract, or that he is not demanding 7M/yr...
Same thing with Kaep.. he isn't that good a player.. and to pay someone to be a backup and get so much attention from media isn't worth 10-12M per year.. really there are barely 5 QBs in the league that are worse than him.. and none of them have a true starting jobs..
I don't mind the protest and am opposed to dumb asses who who want players to stop.. but making the NFL look bad when many in the NFL are doing more to support this than most americans, is just trying to play the victim card..
they didnt lose that though
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In comment 13911028 2ndroundKO said:
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In comment 13911007 allstarjim said:
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In comment 13910981 2ndroundKO said:
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How the hell do you extrapolate OP’s comments into some generalization about being a victim?
But let’s see where this rabbithole goes.
Then you may be an idiot because Eric is 100% correct and you probably are too dumb to get it.
Don’t make me laugh.
Well, I think you made it pretty clear you aren't exactly honor roll material.
You really think that, allstarjim? My day is ruined.
No to be honest I don't think that. I think you are a smart guy and I apologize for attacking your intelligence. Just because I think you may have a blind spot on this issue doesn't mean you aren't a thoughtful, intelligent person. I have friends who do not agree with me on this very issue. Friends I think very highly of. It drives me crazy. I also know and have known many people in law enforcement and nearly all of them are really good, honest people with high character, and the very few that rubbed me the wrong way gave me no reason to believe they were unprofessional in their duties or were racially biased in any way.
These guys don't want to shoot anyone. You have to consider the very large number of incidents and interactions that happen in America daily. There are something like 2 million cops in this country, and think about the daily interactions that happen with the public in each town and city in our country. Most of those are routine, professional, and without incident. We are discussing the very small percentage that do not go well. And you will always have a small percentage of things not going well when you deal with anything in very large numbers. It is not indicative of systemic anything.
Every NFL team has a right to do what's best for their business.
You may even find an owner who agrees with the cause but would still shy away from a player associated with it.
Such is life in business and with one's money.
There are no victims here.
^^^ This guy gets it.
When Colin K began his on the field protest, the 49ers (who are in one of the most liberal cities in the country) began to lose a significant amount of fan support when you would assume that most of those fans would side with Colin. It impacted their revenue. Fan outrage over this was so broad that its ripple effect spread to other teams as well. John Mara said he received thousands of letters from fans basically warning him that they would not support the team if the Giants supported the idea of kneeling during the anthem.
Now, some of you brought up potentially valid comparisons of players involved in domestic abuse. Valid up until the point where virtually none of those instances have impacted or threatened the revenue of a team. We have seen no protests of a team due to having a player on the roster who was guilty of domestic abuse. None that I am aware of anyway... and none significant enough to where it is impacting team revenue.
The revenue in the end is what it is all about. It has nothing to do with beliefs or causes.
I until recently, wasn't even aware Eric Reid Knelt.
Again, my thoughts are the same as my previous post @ 12:16. I think its a safe assumption that some teams aren't as quick to sign a guy that has knelt ($$ and talent obviously plays into this)..but in general safeties aren't being signed.
Mike Mitchell
Ricardo Allen (young low cost guy)
Eric Reid
Tre Boston
Kenny Vaccaro
Now my ignorance shouldn't be extended across all fans as there are certainly quite a few here who knew Reid knelt and I'm sure the owners know, but my point from way above remains that extrapolating what Reid did to being the reason he's unsigned is most likely ignoring other factors.
JonC mentioned that. The point about safeties as a whole being unsigned has been mentioned.
Demanding answers on why the giants haven't signed Reid, almost in an accusatory fashion as if they are doing it simply out of discrimination is really weak. But then again I hate passive outrage - the type directed when someone who hasn't taken action is accused of something, rather than the outrage of when deliberate action is taken.
More than any other sport/business that I can think of, they have allowed their business to suffer hundreds of millions of dollars in lost business in order to accommodate the protestors. Greedy and insensitive ownership could have shut this down from the beginning, and they would have been within their legal rights to do so. But they didn't. They stood by the players. They listened. And they have actually given millions of dollars now to support the causes that the players support. And the NFL is still hemorrhaging money because of it.
Yet no matter what the NFL does, it isn't good enough.
I bet you it isn't nearly as much as guys like Kapernick and Reid have sacrificed for standing up (or kneeling if you will) for an issue that the some of the American public is implying that doesn't exist because it doesn't affect them. You'll have folks like allstarjim here who will take a few cases when a white person has been gunned down and say 'See! It happens to white people too!' but ignoring how much more often it happens to people of color (and I'm not just referring to AAs). One kid (guess the race) shoots up a local church or school and gets taken alive.... meanwhile another kid (again, guess the race) gets gunned down (shot at over 20 times!) while holding a cellphone. But I'm supposed to believe that's all a media creation... just like there are some who believe the school shootings are hoaxes to some I suppose.
I can appreciate what the NFL has done so far and yet still believe that more can be done to raise awareness to this issue.
I figure they'd know him better than your average non-fan-of-the-team-he-played for did. But you bring up the signing of Michael Thomas as if it disproves the notion that the Giants would have been too wary to sign Eric Reid, an arguably better player (I don't know this for sure, as again, I don't really know who Michael Thomas is).
As a fan of a team that's sucked for years, I'd be pretty annoyed if I were to learn that the Giants didn't consider signing Eric Reid after sitting down with him and talking about protests.
NFL.com traffic plummeted last year.
TV contract... already fixed. But if the 2-year trend continues, advertisers would be crazy to spend the same amount when TV ratings have dropped so rapidly.
Bottom line is this is hurting the NFL's bottom line and it could get much, much worse depending on the next TV contract.
On the other hand, go team by team and look at who protested last year and see if they are still under contract or have been signed.
NFL.com traffic plummeted last year.
TV contract... already fixed. But if the 2-year trend continues, advertisers would be crazy to spend the same amount when TV ratings have dropped so rapidly.
Bottom line is this is hurting the NFL's bottom line and it could get much, much worse depending on the next TV contract.
You're attributing the decline in tv ratings to this? I'd attribute it to over saturation and a declining on field product.
If Eric Reid is still unsigned by week 10 would you admit he's not being signed due to his protest?
Incorrect. They could've shut this down and said, "we don't care what views you hold, or what you say on your time while not in uniform, not at organization events, or on company property, but when you are, you will not engage in any activity or speech like this."
I guarantee you if every single one of the kneelers were suspended immediately and/or released, there would be no shortage of players, even African American players. For a lot of these guys, taking care of their families and cashing large paychecks are always going to win. If it's your livelihood, especially one in which you are very-well compensated, you will toe that company line and check your politics at the door.
HA! U think???
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Empty stadiums... not all teams sell out in advance... plus all of those lost concessions. I would also be curious to see how team apparel sales did. (That's the one thing the NFL came after me about is when I started to see apparel...they sicked their lawyers on me then).
NFL.com traffic plummeted last year.
TV contract... already fixed. But if the 2-year trend continues, advertisers would be crazy to spend the same amount when TV ratings have dropped so rapidly.
Bottom line is this is hurting the NFL's bottom line and it could get much, much worse depending on the next TV contract.
You're attributing the decline in tv ratings to this? I'd attribute it to over saturation and a declining on field product.
If Eric Reid is still unsigned by week 10 would you admit he's not being signed due to his protest?
Yes, because the viewers have said so themselves.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/poll-kaepernicks-anthem-protests-biggest-reason-nfl-viewers-stopped-watching/
Why am I not protesting? 1) I don't have an issue with criminals who intentionally make a dangerous situation for cops trying to do their jobs getting shot, which is the vast majority of these cases.
2) In the VERY few examples in which the police shooting was very clearly excessive and unnecessary, we have a justice system that evaluates the facts and criminal charges, due process, and hopefully, prosecution and justice follows, as in the case of Walter Scott. In some cases, due process results in a jury finding the offending officer not guilty. Although we may disagree, and I do, often, our system of government and justice was built upon some of the guilty going free in favor of more of the innocent being incarcerated. Any time there is injustice it sucks, but at minimum, a jury heard both arguments and at least the offender was tried for their alleged crime.
3) I have a job and because of points 1) and 2), it is not
important to me at all.
1) even if the judgment (in this case getting shot) getting handed can be deemed excessive? Funny how a certain individual can make a statement that a soldier 'knew what he was signing up for' with regards to him being killed during combat and some folks think 'Well, he's right!' and yet that doesn't appear to apply for police officers. All they need to do is say 'I feared for my life.'... whether that fear is warranted or not... and it's usually enough for them to either get off completely or suffer a slap on the wrist.
2) the justice system fails minorities every day... and I'd change your sentence from 'In some cases, due process results in a jury finding the offending officer not guilty.' to 'In MOST cases...' personally... and sorry, there's something wrong with a system where it's accepted that some of the guilty go free and some of the innocent get incarcerated. To accept that as being 'it is what it is' is unacceptable.
3) well that's convenient. As I said, it's not important to you because it's rare that it can or will affect you (assuming you're not a person of color). So yeah... you can afford to have that mindset. Unfortunately, not all of us can.
It's not clear that Reid has suffered at all.
Mike Mitchell - Not signed because he sucks. Really. He sucks.
Tre Boston - HE's OK. Not a plus starter. Limited speed. I wouldn't give him a good deal. It's about money here. NYG (and many others) talked to him but didn't want to pay.
Ricardo Allen - Not a FA. 2nd round tender. Still with ATL and working on long term deal.
Reid? Nobody called. His first team visit was yesterday with CIN.
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With all due respect, you are not fully appreciating or understanding what the NFL has sacrificed because of these protests.
More than any other sport/business that I can think of, they have allowed their business to suffer hundreds of millions of dollars in lost business in order to accommodate the protestors. Greedy and insensitive ownership could have shut this down from the beginning, and they would have been within their legal rights to do so. But they didn't. They stood by the players. They listened. And they have actually given millions of dollars now to support the causes that the players support. And the NFL is still hemorrhaging money because of it.
Yet no matter what the NFL does, it isn't good enough.
I bet you it isn't nearly as much as guys like Kapernick and Reid have sacrificed for standing up (or kneeling if you will) for an issue that the some of the American public is implying that doesn't exist because it doesn't affect them. You'll have folks like allstarjim here who will take a few cases when a white person has been gunned down and say 'See! It happens to white people too!' but ignoring how much more often it happens to people of color (and I'm not just referring to AAs). One kid (guess the race) shoots up a local church or school and gets taken alive.... meanwhile another kid (again, guess the race) gets gunned down (shot at over 20 times!) while holding a cellphone. But I'm supposed to believe that's all a media creation... just like there are some who believe the school shootings are hoaxes to some I suppose.
I can appreciate what the NFL has done so far and yet still believe that more can be done to raise awareness to this issue.
White people get shot more by cops than black people as a percentage of officer-suspect engagements.
The truth will set you free from this nonsense.
I realize this is a gray area, but stick to the football aspects.
Or is it about the product, change in the game, problems with calling a catch a catch, CTE, the massive drop in participation on the youth level?
Or is it about kneeling?
Or is it about the product, change in the game, problems with calling a catch a catch, CTE, the massive drop in participation on the youth level?
Or is it about kneeling?
This is going to turn political if we get into that. I would be happy to discuss offline.
OTOH any player making a public protest while wearing the uniform is volunarily risking his livelihood by doing so. Every rational person knows ownership is motivated only by profit and protest by definition will upset some paying customers and put profits at risk.
I realize this is a gray area, but stick to the football aspects.
Sorry about that. I will see my way out of the thread and get back to football discussion.
Mike Mitchell - Not signed because he sucks. Really. He sucks.
Tre Boston - HE's OK. Not a plus starter. Limited speed. I wouldn't give him a good deal. It's about money here. NYG (and many others) talked to him but didn't want to pay.
Ricardo Allen - Not a FA. 2nd round tender. Still with ATL and working on long term deal.
Reid? Nobody called. His first team visit was yesterday with CIN.
These guys belong on a roster. lol youre grasping. Now we're going with they've gotten more meetings with teams? These guys are unsigned. They might "suck" but they have a place in the league. right now they dont. Also- your assessments of players are absolute! genius! genius! genius!
There are many reasons for it.
Price at stadiums to go to a game.
Drop in TV viewers across the board.
Many things have lead to the drop in viewers.
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In comment 13911088 Eric from BBI said:
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With all due respect, you are not fully appreciating or understanding what the NFL has sacrificed because of these protests.
More than any other sport/business that I can think of, they have allowed their business to suffer hundreds of millions of dollars in lost business in order to accommodate the protestors. Greedy and insensitive ownership could have shut this down from the beginning, and they would have been within their legal rights to do so. But they didn't. They stood by the players. They listened. And they have actually given millions of dollars now to support the causes that the players support. And the NFL is still hemorrhaging money because of it.
Yet no matter what the NFL does, it isn't good enough.
I bet you it isn't nearly as much as guys like Kapernick and Reid have sacrificed for standing up (or kneeling if you will) for an issue that the some of the American public is implying that doesn't exist because it doesn't affect them. You'll have folks like allstarjim here who will take a few cases when a white person has been gunned down and say 'See! It happens to white people too!' but ignoring how much more often it happens to people of color (and I'm not just referring to AAs). One kid (guess the race) shoots up a local church or school and gets taken alive.... meanwhile another kid (again, guess the race) gets gunned down (shot at over 20 times!) while holding a cellphone. But I'm supposed to believe that's all a media creation... just like there are some who believe the school shootings are hoaxes to some I suppose.
I can appreciate what the NFL has done so far and yet still believe that more can be done to raise awareness to this issue.
White people get shot more by cops than black people as a percentage of officer-suspect engagements.
The truth will set you free from this nonsense.
This, however, is not the truth
One of your guys isn't a FA.
Vacarro will get a deal but he was on IR at the end of last year. And he didn't play well. Teams don't line up to throw cash at that.
Then you have Boston? He's OK. and he will be on a roster.
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In comment 13911047 allstarjim said:
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In comment 13911028 2ndroundKO said:
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In comment 13911007 allstarjim said:
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In comment 13910981 2ndroundKO said:
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How the hell do you extrapolate OP’s comments into some generalization about being a victim?
But let’s see where this rabbithole goes.
Then you may be an idiot because Eric is 100% correct and you probably are too dumb to get it.
Don’t make me laugh.
Well, I think you made it pretty clear you aren't exactly honor roll material.
You really think that, allstarjim? My day is ruined.
No to be honest I don't think that. I think you are a smart guy and I apologize for attacking your intelligence. Just because I think you may have a blind spot on this issue doesn't mean you aren't a thoughtful, intelligent person. I have friends who do not agree with me on this very issue. Friends I think very highly of. It drives me crazy. I also know and have known many people in law enforcement and nearly all of them are really good, honest people with high character, and the very few that rubbed me the wrong way gave me no reason to believe they were unprofessional in their duties or were racially biased in any way.
These guys don't want to shoot anyone. You have to consider the very large number of incidents and interactions that happen in America daily. There are something like 2 million cops in this country, and think about the daily interactions that happen with the public in each town and city in our country. Most of those are routine, professional, and without incident. We are discussing the very small percentage that do not go well. And you will always have a small percentage of things not going well when you deal with anything in very large numbers. It is not indicative of systemic anything.
See... the line in bold is what you believe because of the few number of officers you know and have had experience with... but there's seems to be a large enough number of them who wouldn't hesitate to shoot whether the situation calls for it or not. Shit, there's a video or something out right now where a sheriff is quoted and saying he'd rather just kill a guy because it's less expensive!
I know it damages the ideal you have in your head that all cops are great guys but unfortunately that's not the case at all. I just recently watched a video where a guy (who happened to be white by the way) goes into various police departments to ask how to file a police complaint in Florida and the actions by some of the officers on the video is absolutely disgusting... and the whole time I'm thinking 'Sheesh... I wonder what would've happened had he been black or hispanic?'.
He's more of a poor mans LC
I thought it already was?!
I apologize.
I disagree. If they had set this policy from the start, the issue would have died. Instead, they enabled the protests to continue. I can't think of another business who has done more to support support the issue. Can you?
I realize this is a gray area, but stick to the football aspects.
He's 31 this year. I'd give him a short term deal but it would be cheap. He can start for a year or 2.
Here is a guy who made up a bullshit story about the police, was indicted for felony assault of an elderly woman, and made headlines for saying teams need more "thugs" like Latrell Sprewell who notoriously attacked and strangled his own head coach.
This is what I was trying to say. If they didn't side with the players, the union would have crucified the league and it would have been an even bigger issue.
Why isn't this player signed?
I'd place my bet on $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
In the end it is all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
It's not clear that Reid has suffered at all.
Actually... if I remember correctly... he opted out of his contract no? He didn't have to and (again, I may be remembering this wrong) was in no danger of being cut. He left the Niners... not the other way around.
And I'd suggest that him not being able to participate in the occupation of his choice... playing the game he loves... and becoming a pariah in his own country... is a pretty big sacrifice. But I guess that's not enough for you?
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In comment 13911088 Eric from BBI said:
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With all due respect, you are not fully appreciating or understanding what the NFL has sacrificed because of these protests.
More than any other sport/business that I can think of, they have allowed their business to suffer hundreds of millions of dollars in lost business in order to accommodate the protestors. Greedy and insensitive ownership could have shut this down from the beginning, and they would have been within their legal rights to do so. But they didn't. They stood by the players. They listened. And they have actually given millions of dollars now to support the causes that the players support. And the NFL is still hemorrhaging money because of it.
Yet no matter what the NFL does, it isn't good enough.
I bet you it isn't nearly as much as guys like Kapernick and Reid have sacrificed for standing up (or kneeling if you will) for an issue that the some of the American public is implying that doesn't exist because it doesn't affect them. You'll have folks like allstarjim here who will take a few cases when a white person has been gunned down and say 'See! It happens to white people too!' but ignoring how much more often it happens to people of color (and I'm not just referring to AAs). One kid (guess the race) shoots up a local church or school and gets taken alive.... meanwhile another kid (again, guess the race) gets gunned down (shot at over 20 times!) while holding a cellphone. But I'm supposed to believe that's all a media creation... just like there are some who believe the school shootings are hoaxes to some I suppose.
I can appreciate what the NFL has done so far and yet still believe that more can be done to raise awareness to this issue.
White people get shot more by cops than black people as a percentage of officer-suspect engagements.
The truth will set you free from this nonsense.
I'm sure you believe that.
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In comment 13911162 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13911088 Eric from BBI said:
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With all due respect, you are not fully appreciating or understanding what the NFL has sacrificed because of these protests.
More than any other sport/business that I can think of, they have allowed their business to suffer hundreds of millions of dollars in lost business in order to accommodate the protestors. Greedy and insensitive ownership could have shut this down from the beginning, and they would have been within their legal rights to do so. But they didn't. They stood by the players. They listened. And they have actually given millions of dollars now to support the causes that the players support. And the NFL is still hemorrhaging money because of it.
Yet no matter what the NFL does, it isn't good enough.
I bet you it isn't nearly as much as guys like Kapernick and Reid have sacrificed for standing up (or kneeling if you will) for an issue that the some of the American public is implying that doesn't exist because it doesn't affect them. You'll have folks like allstarjim here who will take a few cases when a white person has been gunned down and say 'See! It happens to white people too!' but ignoring how much more often it happens to people of color (and I'm not just referring to AAs). One kid (guess the race) shoots up a local church or school and gets taken alive.... meanwhile another kid (again, guess the race) gets gunned down (shot at over 20 times!) while holding a cellphone. But I'm supposed to believe that's all a media creation... just like there are some who believe the school shootings are hoaxes to some I suppose.
I can appreciate what the NFL has done so far and yet still believe that more can be done to raise awareness to this issue.
White people get shot more by cops than black people as a percentage of officer-suspect engagements.
The truth will set you free from this nonsense.
I'm sure you believe that.
Would also love to add an "unarmed" filter to that data set and see how that shakes out...
The CAP just grew by $10 Million. The Cowboys are about to pack their stadium full of fans to watch the DRAFT. People are paying to get in and their is a waiting list.
The league is fine shape. People still love their team and football.
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In comment 13911057 T-Bone said:
Why am I not protesting? 1) I don't have an issue with criminals who intentionally make a dangerous situation for cops trying to do their jobs getting shot, which is the vast majority of these cases.
2) In the VERY few examples in which the police shooting was very clearly excessive and unnecessary, we have a justice system that evaluates the facts and criminal charges, due process, and hopefully, prosecution and justice follows, as in the case of Walter Scott. In some cases, due process results in a jury finding the offending officer not guilty. Although we may disagree, and I do, often, our system of government and justice was built upon some of the guilty going free in favor of more of the innocent being incarcerated. Any time there is injustice it sucks, but at minimum, a jury heard both arguments and at least the offender was tried for their alleged crime.
3) I have a job and because of points 1) and 2), it is not
important to me at all.
1) even if the judgment (in this case getting shot) getting handed can be deemed excessive? Funny how a certain individual can make a statement that a soldier 'knew what he was signing up for' with regards to him being killed during combat and some folks think 'Well, he's right!' and yet that doesn't appear to apply for police officers. All they need to do is say 'I feared for my life.'... whether that fear is warranted or not... and it's usually enough for them to either get off completely or suffer a slap on the wrist.
2) the justice system fails minorities every day... and I'd change your sentence from 'In some cases, due process results in a jury finding the offending officer not guilty.' to 'In MOST cases...' personally... and sorry, there's something wrong with a system where it's accepted that some of the guilty go free and some of the innocent get incarcerated. To accept that as being 'it is what it is' is unacceptable.
3) well that's convenient. As I said, it's not important to you because it's rare that it can or will affect you (assuming you're not a person of color). So yeah... you can afford to have that mindset. Unfortunately, not all of us can.
Preach on! Agree completely.
"Any time there is injustice it sucks, but at minimum, a jury heard both arguments and at least the offender was tried for their alleged crime."
I can see the same argument being used in the Jim Crow south!
A tad. Nevermind the million other reasons why folks stopped watching. The majority of whom were African-Americans in solidarity with Kaepernick.
Here is a guy who made up a bullshit story about the police, was indicted for felony assault of an elderly woman, and made headlines for saying teams need more "thugs" like Latrell Sprewell who notoriously attacked and strangled his own head coach.
Sure... because sometimes even bad guys get put on a pedestal that they perhaps shouldn't be put on.
You know... like some cops.
Anything else?
I don't recall that being the case but again, I may be not remembering that correctly.
I actually don't watch corrupt corporate media. I cut the cord two years ago.
Actually... if I remember correctly... he opted out of his contract no? He didn't have to and (again, I may be remembering this wrong) was in no danger of being cut. He left the Niners... not the other way around.
I'm sorry, this is going to be my last post. See, here is a guy that makes a dumbass comment about another poster who is also the owner of this site about what news channel he watches, because Eric has the logical viewpoint that NFL viewership is down because of the player protests.
All you have to do is a simple google search to find poll after poll of those that have stopped watching football are doing so BECAUSE OF THE PROTESTS. Has nothing to do with any cable news organization. And even if we didn't have the polls to back it up, the mere fact that this has been a hot-button issue with national coverage and non-stop dialogue in our country since Kaepernick started doing this in 2016 and oh yeah, the decline in viewership just so happened to coincide with the rise of the player kneelings across the league...for a reasonable person whose synapses are firing and can do elementary school math, they can deduce the two events are related.
This is not masters' level detective work needed here. But since you obviously haven't gotten that far in figuring it out, let me help you out:
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/poll-kaepernicks-anthem-protests-biggest-reason-nfl-viewers-stopped-watching/
Would also love to add an "unarmed" filter to that data set and see how that shakes out...
In 2017, there were 68 unarmed people shot and killed by police. 30 white, 20 black, 13 Hispanic, 3 other, 2 unknown.
Overall, 987 people killed by police in 2017. 457 white, 223 black, 179 Hispanic, 44 other, 84 unknown.
2018: 304 people killed by police. 126 white, 61 black, 38 Hispanic, 10 other, 69 unknown. 16 unarmed people, of whom 9 were white, 6 were black, 1 Hispanic.
Washington Post police shooting database - ( New Window )
And yet it is the owners who have enabled the protests. So if those who support them are turning off the games, then they are hurting their own cause.
I can only tell you I know many people who will not watch the NFL because of the kneeling. So if viewership is down, I can easily see the kneeling as a reason.
It does not affect me one iota. I didn't like it because it was a mixed message, but again if you want to protest, have at it.
Eric Reid is too good a player to not be signed, so he will be signed when his contract demands come down.
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Actually... if I remember correctly... he opted out of his contract no? He didn't have to and (again, I may be remembering this wrong) was in no danger of being cut. He left the Niners... not the other way around.
If you ever wanted the "victim mentality" defined: he opted out, he left the team, but he's not allowed to participate in his occupation of choice. He might not be playing victim, but plenty of others are doing it for him/them.
I don't understand your point.
And I'm bowing out of this conversation because, as Eric said, I'm teetering on making this political and I'll be damned if I get banned just a few weeks before the most important New York Giants draft since I've been following the team and football is about to happen.
and another:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-nfl-anthem-20170810-story.html
And I also believe firmly that there is inherent skew in polling due to the fact that I believe a significant number of those with conservatively held political beliefs, who are more likely to take exception to protests during the anthem, do not participate in telephone surveys. Which is why election polling has often leaned more Democratic Party than the actual results.
This is not intended to be a political post, btw, just benign facts about who tend to respond to online and phone surveys.
But even the surveys, at face value, give the anthem protests as the #1 reason why they are tuning out of watching games.
And yet it is the owners who have enabled the protests. So if those who support them are turning off the games, then they are hurting their own cause.
Yes, and I actually mentioned this in I think my initial post...that the owners are in a no win situation...however, if they took the hard line early and were consistent with it, they would've faced less customer backlash and we'd probably already be on the other side of this as a country. The stance would've been to keep the politics out of the sport, no exceptions.
And then follow up with more posts and links?
It is pretty simple.. it just says that one issue is more important to one person than another which is fine. You have a lot of PETA protesters out there too who could be accused of caring more about animals than humans because those sample people are not protesting everything else.
You don't HAVE TO care about any of it. I personally would love to change a few things in the world but I am not going to go protest or write letters. I would rather spend more time with my kids before I leave this earth and spend a few thousand more days on the water vs getting all wrapped up in all kinds of other shit.
So, I would say it is unfair to indicate that a person is bad because he/she does not take all causes seriously.
And then follow up with more posts and links?
Yes, I made myself a liar. I can't help myself. I'm just incorrigible.
Perhaps the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back? If people were on the border of not watching anymore, the protests may have been that straw. (Just a guess)
But people have a right to protest and the people that stopped watching are also exercising their right to protest, too.
You cant compare your job to others because domestic abusers and people who cheat (peds) in your line of work arent allowed to work there.
And I also believe firmly that there is inherent skew in polling due to the fact that I believe a significant number of those with conservatively held political beliefs, who are more likely to take exception to protests during the anthem, do not participate in telephone surveys. Which is why election polling has often leaned more Democratic Party than the actual results.
Where did you get this info from? This is actually the reverse of what is true, particularly if it's a land-line survey.
I'll just leave with saying I have a hard time accepting that Mara and Tisch are a part of a conspiracy to not sign protestors when their words and actions to date suggest the opposite. Same with almost the entire League.
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If I used my job or position within my employer as sounding board for my political or social views, I would be fired on the spot. Not because of my views, but because I used my employment/employer as the sounding board, which in turn is perceived to be the position of the company I work for. And in many cases, when employees do this it hurts the company brand; which can hurt the company's bottom line. Eric Reid's actions on NFL time (as with others) have hurt the NFL brand.
You cant compare your job to others because domestic abusers and people who cheat (peds) in your line of work arent allowed to work there.
And you know this how?
Bottom line for me is we have an excellent player in his prime saying he will take the same deal as his rookie deal. And maybe less.
It's a guaranteed opportunity for NYG (and any NFL team) to improve the team.
And they aren't doing it.
Eventually, I'd bet on Reid landing somewhere in the next few weeks. I'd bet on that being a steal for the team that finally signs him
If it happens... that thread sure will be special. My earlier comments were accurate as it relates to the business side AND also with regards to what John Mara said back then. Things change...
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If you don't think the decline in viewership had something to do with kneeling, you don't know many conservative white people. Not even ultra right wing conservatives either. It bothers a lot of people, so much so that they will stop watching the games.
bothers them even more than unarmed people getting shot, apparently.
It’s a complete joke that people can think that backlash from fake ass patriots who are busy taking a leak while the anthem plays would be worse than the backlash if the NFL “shut it down.” The vast majority of the NFL is black. You would have a league wide boycott of games.
How's that????
Bottom line for me is we have an excellent player in his prime saying he will take the same deal as his rookie deal. And maybe less.
It's a guaranteed opportunity for NYG (and any NFL team) to improve the team.
And they aren't doing it.
Eventually, I'd bet on Reid landing somewhere in the next few weeks. I'd bet on that being a steal for the team that finally signs him
Reid said he would re-sign with the 9ers for 1 year IF they matched his pay from last season which was 7 million. He did not say that he would accept a multiyear deal at that rate. The Giants not going after Reid is simple IMO. They have to extend Collins this year and he will surely be the highest paid safety in the league. They can't afford to pay Reid $7 million plus on top of that. That doesn't include the monster new deal for Beckham.
I think people are jumping to conclusions.
These people won’t go buy even Starbucks when the cups aren’t red. It’s the victim mentality.
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If I used my job or position within my employer as sounding board for my political or social views, I would be fired on the spot. Not because of my views, but because I used my employment/employer as the sounding board, which in turn is perceived to be the position of the company I work for. And in many cases, when employees do this it hurts the company brand; which can hurt the company's bottom line. Eric Reid's actions on NFL time (as with others) have hurt the NFL brand.
You cant compare your job to others because domestic abusers and people who cheat (peds) in your line of work arent allowed to work there.
Pretty much.
They're entitled to their opinion, but not entitled to make up their own facts. So sure, the opinion can be "unarmed minorities being killed at a higher rate than non-minorities is less important to me than someone kneeling for the anthem". And they can have the opinion that "unarmed minorities getting shot at a higher % than non minorities isn't a problem".
What they CAN'T have an "opinion" about is whether unarmed minorities being shot at a higher % than non-minorities is factual or not.
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Yes, because the narrative is not believed by at least half the population. It absolutely is political.
It’s not reality at all you’re full of shit
It's not a "narrative," it's reality.
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And I also believe firmly that there is inherent skew in polling due to the fact that I believe a significant number of those with conservatively held political beliefs, who are more likely to take exception to protests during the anthem, do not participate in telephone surveys. Which is why election polling has often leaned more Democratic Party than the actual results.
Where did you get this info from? This is actually the reverse of what is true, particularly if it's a land-line survey.
Allstarjim is correct. Most Republicans, and especially conservatives, stay away from all things like this. The reason is that the media is so overwhelmingly liberal that it's not worth the effort for them. I can tell you I never answer any polling or study requests. It just aggravates me actually.
Look at BBI for example. You read every pseudo political thread and BBI comes over as 75% or more liberal leaning. I doubt that is the case, and I would wager that the conservatives just don't bother. It's not worth getting into the inevitable internet argument.
Those who support the protestors should be thrilled with how the NFL has bent over backwards to accommodate this issue. But if this thread is any evidence, the contrary appears to be the case.
Stunning.
People love being upset.
And I say this as someone who is not at all bothered by the protests. But I talk to plenty of people who think it is an important societal issue, but kneeling during the anthem is not the appropriate way to go about making the point.
If you really do believe in people's rights to their own opinions, that means accepting that people who disagree with you are not all reactionary monsters.
The Giants traded JPP and kept Olivier Vernon.
Your argument that the Giants (and many other teams) are discriminating doesn't hold water.
But this is the victim mentality.
The Bucs came to the Giants about JPP. Had they come for Vernon, I suspect he would have been traded. Giants were looking to dump salary.
I think other teams are looking at it from the standpoint what are the pluses and minuses to signing players. There's no conspiracy.
Michael Thomas is a decent player, an under the radar type. More a special teams guy I believe. He's not carrying the torch, so to speak, for the protest.
Reid is.
I don't even follow the 49ers but know who Reid is, because of his play, and his outspokenness on the issue.
I think it's huge in why he isn't signed.
He wants a long term deal like they all do but said he would sign a one year deal.
The S position is not “devalued” when you can play several positions like Reid.
It’s about talent, scheme fit, etc like it can be said about Kapernick.
It’s not an age thing since he’s only 26.
But he hasn’t had a contract offer.
That isn’t playing victim. I’d like to know why our team is passing on this opportunity to improve the team.
Probably because we have a better player at the same position and no cap space left is the real answer
And this is why he won't be signed. All the attention.
Kap is really the perfect backup to the Seattle offense.
Conspiracy? No...Seattle is making a business decision. They feel the return on investment is not worth it.
Now, if a starting QB was available, you might see another team react differently.
Falls along the same lines of Eric Reid IMO.
And I say this as someone who is not at all bothered by the protests. But I talk to plenty of people who think it is an important societal issue, but kneeling during the anthem is not the appropriate way to go about making the point.
If you really do believe in people's rights to their own opinions, that means accepting that people who disagree with you are not all reactionary monsters.
I don't really think kneeling during the anthem might be the best way to protest, but hey, it got attention, and that's pretty much the point of protests.
Additionally, my broader point was to delineate between what can be an "opinion" and what really cannot be. Facts can't be opinions, despite what the current climate might suggest. Opinions about facts can be opinions (duh) - but underlying facts are not.
Today you need a S who can play LB too. Reid can do that.
And I say this as someone who is not at all bothered by the protests. But I talk to plenty of people who think it is an important societal issue, but kneeling during the anthem is not the appropriate way to go about making the point.
If you really do believe in people's rights to their own opinions, that means accepting that people who disagree with you are not all reactionary monsters.
+1. I agree. Personally I am sickened by what I see with these police shootings. However I don't like using the national anthem as a protest forum for anything. This is my opinion, yet every day on social media people would label this position as a terrible thing. It's a mentality of either you accept 100% or you are the enemy. It sets a lot of people off.
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Because someone doesn't like the manner of protest doesn't mean they don't care about the cause or think it is trivial. Plenty of people think the more strident things PETA does are inappropriate. That doesn't mean they think the protest is a bigger problem than animal cruelty. It means they understand the difference between an issue, and a protest done in response to that issue. They are different things. You can't say everyone who thinks kneeling during the national anthem doesn't see violence against minorities as some kind of non-issue.
And I say this as someone who is not at all bothered by the protests. But I talk to plenty of people who think it is an important societal issue, but kneeling during the anthem is not the appropriate way to go about making the point.
If you really do believe in people's rights to their own opinions, that means accepting that people who disagree with you are not all reactionary monsters.
+1. I agree. Personally I am sickened by what I see with these police shootings. However I don't like using the national anthem as a protest forum for anything. This is my opinion, yet every day on social media people would label this position as a terrible thing. It's a mentality of either you accept 100% or you are the enemy. It sets a lot of people off.
Also agree. And it is my experience/opinion that that particular mentality does their cause (whichever cause) more harm than good. In some instances, it probably actually creates pushback from people that may even agree with them, but not their methods.
Today you need a S who can play LB too. Reid can do that.
Ok but what cap space do they have
But even here, you are admitting you ascribing views to people based on nothing but your preconceived notions. Why does someone turning off NFL coverage of the protests indicate that they don't think innocent people getting shot is a problem, or just less of a problem than the protest? My point is that those are two separate things, and people in general need to stop ascribing bad motives to people who don't hold the same views.
Someone can be against racism and police violence, and still turn off an NFL Game because they find the protest distasteful or disrespectful. Those are not mutually exclusive things.
NFL owners do not like having their business and the sport of football to be used to create a wedge between large groups of people who also are customers of those teams and the league. It it almost like a street brawl finding its way from the street and into a restaurant... every Sunday. The restaurant owner just does not want that shit in his place pushing customers out the door. It does not matter whose side he is on during the fight. The fact that there is one in his restaurant is ruining his business. He wants to them to leave him out of it and take the fight somewhere else.
But the NFL roots still strong in the closed minded way.
On the other hand some of these guys making statements are also selfish divas who suck for team first chemistry.
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However I don't like using the national anthem as a protest forum for anything. This is my opinion, yet every day on social media people would label this position as a terrible thing. It's a mentality of either you accept 100% or you are the enemy. It sets a lot of people off.
NFL owners do not like having their business and the sport of football to be used to create a wedge between large groups of people who also are customers of those teams and the league. It it almost like a street brawl finding its way from the street and into a restaurant... every Sunday. The restaurant owner just does not want that shit in his place pushing customers out the door. It does not matter whose side he is on during the fight. The fact that there is one in his restaurant is ruining his business. He wants to them to leave him out of it and take the fight somewhere else.
This is a good analogy, actually.
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However I don't like using the national anthem as a protest forum for anything. This is my opinion, yet every day on social media people would label this position as a terrible thing. It's a mentality of either you accept 100% or you are the enemy. It sets a lot of people off.
NFL owners do not like having their business and the sport of football to be used to create a wedge between large groups of people who also are customers of those teams and the league. It it almost like a street brawl finding its way from the street and into a restaurant... every Sunday. The restaurant owner just does not want that shit in his place pushing customers out the door. It does not matter whose side he is on during the fight. The fact that there is one in his restaurant is ruining his business. He wants to them to leave him out of it and take the fight somewhere else.
+1. Very good analogy.
If they wanted to sign Keanu Reeves and put Shane Falco on the back of his jersey they could do that tomorrow. If they want to cut AJ Green because they don't like the way he talked to a ball boy they could do that too.
Consequences have actions in private industry. Reid was signed to a contract, paid according to his contract and the beat goes on.
Nobody forced him to "protest". That was his call. Now he has to accept whatever comes to him. Fortunately he has the "moral high ground" on this one. Unfortunately Bentley dealerships don't accept moral high ground as payment. Such is life.
NFL is waayyyyy more popular than the NBA. just sayin
What’s so funny and ironic about that statement?
Link - ( New Window )
Youth football participation is shrinking.
20 years from now things may look very, very different.
I have taken multiple sociology courses at my school and studied this topic pretty extensively. If you think the root of suffrage comes from law enforcement you have not ripped the full band aid off of the wound. It starts at the governmental level. (In my opinion) saying police are at fault is right and wrong. Yes, crooked cops exist. Every human being has an inherent battle between good and evil. When placed in positions of power, some choose a path of corruption.
As others pointed out, it is possible to agree with a cause but disagree with its method. These players are mandated to speak in front of a microphone. They have plenty of opportunities to discuss issues within this country (that certainly exist). Why didn't Colin Kaepernick sit down in front of a microphone one day and simply start talking about the issues African Americans still face today? Why not plan a well formed speech consisting of facts? I think many feel he choose this method to seek attention. There was a way to go about this in a much more mature manner.
Debate is good. Questioning aspects of our society is healthy and necessary for growth. However, the truth is we all have personal or family issues that are prioritized over issues of others within this country. Many do not want to hear the issues of different people. You cannot force people to care for a cause or for others, whether it has merit or not.
teams need players and have budgets, when need intersects with budget you have signings.
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In comment 13911268 allstarjim said:
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And I also believe firmly that there is inherent skew in polling due to the fact that I believe a significant number of those with conservatively held political beliefs, who are more likely to take exception to protests during the anthem, do not participate in telephone surveys. Which is why election polling has often leaned more Democratic Party than the actual results.
Where did you get this info from? This is actually the reverse of what is true, particularly if it's a land-line survey.
Allstarjim is correct. Most Republicans, and especially conservatives, stay away from all things like this. The reason is that the media is so overwhelmingly liberal that it's not worth the effort for them. I can tell you I never answer any polling or study requests. It just aggravates me actually.
Look at BBI for example. You read every pseudo political thread and BBI comes over as 75% or more liberal leaning. I doubt that is the case, and I would wager that the conservatives just don't bother. It's not worth getting into the inevitable internet argument.
Anyway, other than your run-of-the-mill anecdotes about liberal media, I've actually read studies that conservatives are simply more likely to own landlines.
And he would be cheap.
He's also 26.
Against offenses like CAR, PHI, RAMS, this type of player is extremely valuable. You have to give up size for speed and Reid can do that for us with Collins on the field with him
I would hope by now we could put this "kneeling" issue behind us, as I believe it was a dark/disturbing chapter of the NFL's history, but Reid did more than just kneel during the anthem, as many other players did (including a few on the Giants), he was known to be in cahoots with Kaepernick, who has proven to be a bad egg.
For those who argue that it's the players' right to protest, why is it not the a team or owners right to decide not to sign them because of negative backlash for what many perceive to be deliberate disrespect for the flag, anthem, and country (myself included in that group)? You can bet your ass I'd be sending Mr. Mara a letter if a guy like Reid were on the Giants.
The bottom line is, like anything else in life, actions have consequences. While I do not believe him being a kneeler and rabble-rouser is the sole reason he is not signed, just because you have a "right" to protest or speak your mind, doesn't mean you are immune to consequences.
There are an incredible amount of examples of this. NOBODY should be against police accountability. That's essentially what you are saying. Check out the indictment rate on police who kill unarmed civilians.
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I understand what you are saying and actually agree with it, but remember, I was talking about a subsection of people who apparently quit watching the NFL over kneeling. I think that's a more specific category than what you are describing.
But even here, you are admitting you ascribing views to people based on nothing but your preconceived notions. Why does someone turning off NFL coverage of the protests indicate that they don't think innocent people getting shot is a problem, or just less of a problem than the protest? My point is that those are two separate things, and people in general need to stop ascribing bad motives to people who don't hold the same views.
Someone can be against racism and police violence, and still turn off an NFL Game because they find the protest distasteful or disrespectful. Those are not mutually exclusive things.
I would hope by now we could put this "kneeling" issue behind us, as I believe it was a dark/disturbing chapter of the NFL's history, but Reid did more than just kneel during the anthem, as many other players did (including a few on the Giants), he was known to be in cahoots with Kaepernick, who has proven to be a bad egg.
For those who argue that it's the players' right to protest, why is it not the a team or owners right to decide not to sign them because of negative backlash for what many perceive to be deliberate disrespect for the flag, anthem, and country (myself included in that group)? You can bet your ass I'd be sending Mr. Mara a letter if a guy like Reid were on the Giants.
The bottom line is, like anything else in life, actions have consequences. While I do not believe him being a kneeler and rabble-rouser is the sole reason he is not signed, just because you have a "right" to protest or speak your mind, doesn't mean you are immune to consequences.
oh so dark. wow, talk about hyperbole
What are the number of reasons?
List them please.
What are the number of reasons?
List them please.
he is a distraction to the team. biggest reason
This perspective is so funny to me because it suggests that since other people aren't protesting for when a white person gets gunned down, that means it's not an issue. Maybe a better question should be, why aren't YOU protesting police brutality against any race then?
Yeah I know... I know... fake news and all....
It can be a legitimate issue... but also have no place on a football field on sunday afternoons. Kaep and Reid elected to bring their personal and social views into their place of employment, and in a very public way without the consent of their employers.
They reap what they sow.
I would hope by now we could put this "kneeling" issue behind us, as I believe it was a dark/disturbing chapter of the NFL's history, but Reid did more than just kneel during the anthem, as many other players did (including a few on the Giants), he was known to be in cahoots with Kaepernick, who has proven to be a bad egg.
For those who argue that it's the players' right to protest, why is it not the a team or owners right to decide not to sign them because of negative backlash for what many perceive to be deliberate disrespect for the flag, anthem, and country (myself included in that group)? You can bet your ass I'd be sending Mr. Mara a letter if a guy like Reid were on the Giants.
The bottom line is, like anything else in life, actions have consequences. While I do not believe him being a kneeler and rabble-rouser is the sole reason he is not signed, just because you have a "right" to protest or speak your mind, doesn't mean you are immune to consequences.
Cahoots, bad egg, rabble-rouser?
Were you a detective in the 1940s or something?
A few questions by the media? It has no impact.
If he didn't kneel it would be over by week 4.
If he did kneel it would be a few questions to answer after the game. So instead of "what did you do this week to prepare?" he would hear a question like "Are you going to kneel again?"
Is this really a distraction that impacts an NFL football team? I don't think it does.
We are almost at the draft. NYG should bring him in and offer a below market deal.
Reid would help the team become a better football team especially at a great price.
And he would be cheap.
He's also 26.
Against offenses like CAR, PHI, RAMS, this type of player is extremely valuable. You have to give up size for speed and Reid can do that for us with Collins on the field with him
What makes you think he would come cheap?
Nobody is calling.
He just got denied by the Bengals.
You can bring him in and offer below market deal right now.
A few questions by the media? It has no impact.
If he didn't kneel it would be over by week 4.
If he did kneel it would be a few questions to answer after the game. So instead of "what did you do this week to prepare?" he would hear a question like "Are you going to kneel again?"
Is this really a distraction that impacts an NFL football team? I don't think it does.
We are almost at the draft. NYG should bring him in and offer a below market deal.
Reid would help the team become a better football team especially at a great price.
You dont think it does. but thats just you. The media are hounds with this. Are you kidding me? this is still conversation. We are still talking about this.
We arent the owners, the coaches , or anything. We dont know shit.
But again, the fact that people here give a crap STRONGLY why he should play is already telling of what can happen the moment the starting qb of whatever team he magically signed with would feel from the media.
Nobody is calling.
He just got denied by the Bengals.
You can bring him in and offer below market deal right now.
Reid said he would play for the 49ers on a 1 year deal for the same compensation he made last year which was $5.67 million. That isn't exactly cheap and he also didn't say he would play for another team for that much. He wants to stay in SF.
Link - ( New Window )
And he would be cheap.
He's also 26.
Against offenses like CAR, PHI, RAMS, this type of player is extremely valuable. You have to give up size for speed and Reid can do that for us with Collins on the field with him
Good points, i just read his NFL.com bio and he seems to be versatile. Hopefully his price really drops and we could bring him in.
Besides, I thought the slightly above average S Reid was thinking about re-signing with the 9ers...?
On that point, where is the outrage foe the 9ers not signing Reid to a bigger deal?
That stuff, like the you need a chearleader at QB, or facial expressions from Eli, are all BS. It doesn't impact anything.
If the guy was playing good ball nothing else matters.
I happen to think he could.
And Jay....He said he would take the $5mill. Great.
Lots of guys would take $5 million.
But it doesn't seem anybody is offering that right now.
So why not bring him in for a 2 year deal. Even at $5 I would do it. But offer 2 years and $8 million.
He has no offers right now. Offer less but offer something because he can help.
You are passionate about this issue clearly, but it is blinding your logic.
You do realize that nobody who turns on an NFL game is witnessing domestic violence at the game, right? And if you told these same people that Kaepernick was kneeling during the anthem in his own home, but not at the game, none of these people would turn off the game?
You keep drawing these false connections that people you disagree with must be bad people who are ok with horrific things like murder or domestic violence when all they are really guilty of is not seeing the world the same way you do.
. lol great post
Nobody is calling.
He just got denied by the Bengals.
You can bring him in and offer below market deal right now.
KWALL, I'm with you this.........
I'd like to think the Giants aren't being influenced by any bad PR he gets from kneeling/talking.
But with 32 teams, some teams have a need and certainly are influenced IMO.
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Well said
In comment 13911003 allstarjim said:
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Yes, because the narrative is not believed by at least half the population. It absolutely is political.
It's not a "narrative," it's reality.
The narrative is that they are being gunned down because of their racial identity, which is absolutely not true. And it's a narrative formed strictly because of media coverage. People of other racial identities get shot by cops as well, even killed, all the time, and its because of their actions. They aren't protests, and there isn't media coverage either. Daniel Shaver was gunned down in a hotel lobby in 2016, you can watch the body cam footage, it was pretty bad, in fact, way worse than any of the other high profile shootings, as Shaver was actually attempting to comply. Officer was acquitted, and in my mind, it was a miscarriage of justice. However, no media coverage, no protests. Russell Bowman was just gunned down. There will be no protests, and no outrage, because he's not the certain shade of skin color that would require that, and, he charged an officer so people will say he caused himself to be shot and it was justified.
Businesses make mistakes.
Through that lens one can understand that
The NFL incorrectly forecasted fan backlash
By the time they recognized it was too late
They couldn’t unscramble the egg
What they have since done is
funded these initiatives for BUSINESS reasons
Avoided perceived lightning rod replacement value talent
Sending a message as independent businesses to labor that:
IF YOU’RE NOT SPECIAL, you’re not worth it
Von Miller took a knee, he will never deal with this
Players need to accept and understand that they are employees
If you’re a special player, employers put up with more.
If not, not worth the headache.
The other gray, is that second chances are higher hurdle here
This wasn’t a mistake or a lapse of judgement
Harder to convince folks of real contrition and remorse
So yes there are many victims here
The owners for their poor foresight
And the marginal players for their poor foresight
Peace out
Businesses make mistakes.
Through that lens one can understand that
The NFL incorrectly forecasted fan backlash
By the time they recognized it was too late
They couldn’t unscramble the egg
What they have since done is
funded these initiatives for BUSINESS reasons
Avoided perceived lightning rod replacement value talent
Sending a message as independent businesses to labor that:
IF YOU’RE NOT SPECIAL, you’re not worth it
Von Miller took a knee, he will never deal with this
Players need to accept and understand that they are employees
If you’re a special player, employers put up with more.
If not, not worth the headache.
The other gray, is that second chances are higher hurdle here
This wasn’t a mistake or a lapse of judgement
Harder to convince folks of real contrition and remorse
So yes there are many victims here
The owners for their poor foresight
And the marginal players for their poor foresight
Peace out
Hardy kidnaps a woman gets a 2nd chance. Little kills a woman and gets to play again. This the NFL can work with. But Reid gets screwed for what? And he said he won't do it again.
But he can't even get in the door for a talk with teams that need S help like our NYG?
Its ridiculous. I can't believe our NTG won't see this as a guranteeed opportunity to improve that horseshit product they put on the field last year.
You are entitled to your opinion but that "fact" is wrong.
(1) PR-the hit from a PR perspective is seen combined with the upside of the talent/money is seen as worse than having a Joe Mixon on the team.
(2) The perceived delta between his talent level and what teams have (or will try to get) is not seen as big enough to take on the other stuff that comes with him.
(3) Some owners probably just won't stomach having a kneeler on their team no matter what. Maybe they feel the same way about a domestic violence offender. Maybe they don't. But I don't think any of us can know that today based on what anyone did in the past. The environment has changed and understanding what domestic violence is has too. Plus...the PR hit is much bigger today than pre-Ray Rice.
(1) PR-the hit from a PR perspective is seen combined with the upside of the talent/money is seen as worse than having a Joe Mixon on the team.
(2) The perceived delta between his talent level and what teams have (or will try to get) is not seen as big enough to take on the other stuff that comes with him.
(3) Some owners probably just won't stomach having a kneeler on their team no matter what. Maybe they feel the same way about a domestic violence offender. Maybe they don't. But I don't think any of us can know that today based on what anyone did in the past. The environment has changed and understanding what domestic violence is has too. Plus...the PR hit is much bigger today than pre-Ray Rice.
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What are businesses that are predominantly African-American would have shut something like this down? Zero.
The owners were well within their legal right to stop this from becoming an issue from the start. But they didn't. They actually showed a great deal of sensitivity. It's stunning you can't see and/or appreciate it.
The NFL didn't shut it down because it couldn't since:
1) The overwhelming majority of their athletes are minorities
2) A large part of their fanbase are minorities
The NFL wasn't being caring and compassionate, they were doing a political triangulation that frankly mollified nobody.
Yes.
The Org recently has not been a smart team.
Perhaps the optics factor in. Vernon was already under contract; Michael Thomas is a relatively anonymous player. Eric Reid is a well-known former 1st rd pick who is forever associated with Kaepernick. I, too believe, that line of thinking is bs. Reid's caliber of play, however, should easily get hima multi-year deal as a starter.
So, Kwall, to answer your question.
Why hasn't NYG signed Eric Reid?
Because overall they aren't a smart organization.
However, if an owner doesn’t want a player on his team, because of protests, or for any other reason, including whimsy, then i think it’s his prerogative. In this case, it could be his speech as well.
At the end of the day, if not having the player on the team results in fewer wins, then that’s the consequence the owner has to face.
Reid is going through the same thing.. How is that not obvious to some of you?
Seattle Postpones Kaepernick Tryout - ( New Window )
Reid is going through the same thing.. How is that not obvious to some of you?
.. and some people actually think these decisions are politically motivated and no financial.
There were plenty of black people who stopped watching because Kaepernick was blacklisted. The NFL, like many segments of American society, is at a tipping point. I simply think in 2018 it's becoming harder to cater to minorities and to conservatives at the same time in any meaningful way. Minorities want to be people and conservatives are sick of it. "Shut up and dribble." People citing the NBA - how many conservatives watch the NBA? My guess is not terribly many. Minorities aren't watching NASCAR or hockey either.
The NFL is caught between the two because it has a mostly minority player base and a very split fanbase.
that's some inflammatory bullshit, just the kind of purely rhetoric-based-bullshit comment that serves no purpose other than to divide.
Many people like to separate sports and politics, but when it happens the other way I don't see the same concern.
I didn't see the uproar when Curt Schilling was told to shut up and pitch, or where was the defense when Tim Thomas was denigrated for refusing to attend the White House ceremony after the Bruins won the Stanley Cup and Obama was President (but the Warriors preemptively say the whole team won't attend before the invitation was withdrawn, and they're hailed as heroes).
You'd be better served to form your opinions from other sources than the spoon-fed media narratives.
It is idiotic that the Giants have not inquired about getting Reid
Why didn't Colin Kaepernick sit down in front of a microphone one day and simply start talking about the issues African Americans still face today? Why not plan a well formed speech consisting of facts? I think many feel he choose this method to seek attention. There was a way to go about this in a much more mature manner.
He chose this method to seek attention... for his cause. There are more people reached during the national anthem than during a presser that will only be viewed by diehard fans. The idea is to get people talking. He achieved his goal tenfold. Awareness of BLM is high AF. Needs to be. We can’t have another Trayvon or Tamir.
Link - ( New Window )
Really?? They were not even showing the national anthem during regular season games. They were running commercials at that time. It was not until he turned it into a side show did the networks begin to put that circus act on TV
There's a number of factors. I don't know the answer but I do knowy father, a football fan of 30+ years, did not only refuse to watch a single game last season but also disallowed my siblings from even having it on the TV in his home. And that was due to the protests so to think it isn't one of those factors is naieve.
5th ranked Kenny Vaccar
7th ranked Tre Boston
9th ranked Tyvon Branch
these are arbitrarily ranked by walter football, but 21 of the 46 free agent safeties still aren't signed.
So, is this a valid topic at this point?
I really don't know much about his situation, but the first question I asked was, so who else is unsigned and is there a huge discrepancy?
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Minorities want to be people and conservatives are sick of it.
that's some inflammatory bullshit, just the kind of purely rhetoric-based-bullshit comment that serves no purpose other than to divide.
Many people like to separate sports and politics, but when it happens the other way I don't see the same concern.
I didn't see the uproar when Curt Schilling was told to shut up and pitch, or where was the defense when Tim Thomas was denigrated for refusing to attend the White House ceremony after the Bruins won the Stanley Cup and Obama was President (but the Warriors preemptively say the whole team won't attend before the invitation was withdrawn, and they're hailed as heroes).
You'd be better served to form your opinions from other sources than the spoon-fed media narratives.
I'm going to guess you're a conservative. That quote in my response was from a conservative. I won't get into the nature of Fox news, Breitbart, and other conservative sites, but I'm still waiting for pizzagate to explode.
It's not dividing to point out a fact. It's dividing to want what Martin Luther King Jr referred to as a "negative peace". Nothing can be done about it if it's not brought out into the open.
You can't separate sports from politics when we play the national anthem before every game. You also can't do it when you have a league with the player makeup and fanbase makeup like the NFL. It was always a powder keg.
Use baseball for an example. Tell Hank Aaron there was a separation of sports and politics there.
George W. Bush used to own the Texans.
Kenny Vaccarro
Mike Mitchell
Eric Reid
Tre Boston
Ricardo Allen
I think this is less of a kneeling issue that OP makes it out to be. All these guys are unsigned because Eric Reid knelt?
Are all good enough to be on a roster. As mentioned above, Brandon Weedens on a roster for gods sake. The safety market has had little movement. This has been the case since FA opened.
To say that guys that have knelt aren't viewed in a different light would be naive.. but I'm seeing a safeties as a whole not being signed
good point, I comment before I read this far.
Besides, I thought the slightly above average S Reid was thinking about re-signing with the 9ers...?
On that point, where is the outrage foe the 9ers not signing Reid to a bigger deal?
+1 Very true. Especially since the Niners are about to be relieved of having to pay Reuben Foster.
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Minorities want to be people and conservatives are sick of it.
that's some inflammatory bullshit, just the kind of purely rhetoric-based-bullshit comment that serves no purpose other than to divide.
Many people like to separate sports and politics, but when it happens the other way I don't see the same concern.
I didn't see the uproar when Curt Schilling was told to shut up and pitch, or where was the defense when Tim Thomas was denigrated for refusing to attend the White House ceremony after the Bruins won the Stanley Cup and Obama was President (but the Warriors preemptively say the whole team won't attend before the invitation was withdrawn, and they're hailed as heroes).
You'd be better served to form your opinions from other sources than the spoon-fed media narratives.
I'm going to guess you're a conservative. That quote in my response was from a conservative. I won't get into the nature of Fox news, Breitbart, and other conservative sites, but I'm still waiting for pizzagate to explode.
It's not dividing to point out a fact. It's dividing to want what Martin Luther King Jr referred to as a "negative peace". Nothing can be done about it if it's not brought out into the open.
You can't separate sports from politics when we play the national anthem before every game. You also can't do it when you have a league with the player makeup and fanbase makeup like the NFL. It was always a powder keg.
Use baseball for an example. Tell Hank Aaron there was a separation of sports and politics there.
George W. Bush used to own the Texans.
So many people are down playing the idea that the anthem, the flag and what they both stand for mean a lot for many people. My father served in the military and when he passed away in 2001, his military funeral included the folding of the flag which was then presented to my mother. I am sure many of you have seen this. There are millions of people who have loved ones who are or were in the military and the idea of protesting the anthem (regardless as to the validity of the reason) is just unacceptable. Then, there are also millions of people who are cops or have loved ones who are cops and they also are not only against protesting the anthem, but also take it as a personal attack that all cops seem to be painted with the same brush here.
In summary, you most likely have more people who either do not like the protests or are just sick of seeing/hearing about it vs people that believe the protests should continue. This is absolutely impacting the NFL's brand and total league revenue.
If this continues, they will continue to lose viewers and ad money. If there is one smart person left in the league office and at the networks, they would just agree to just run commercials during the anthem. What the fans cannot see wont piss them off.
Yet, we have to put up with you and your obtuse rants labelling anything mildly different from your viewpoint with some disparaging remark. Quite frankly, the minute I see your handle in a thread I know the thread will be ruined. Zero to hatred in a split second.
Yeah Big Breitbart Interactive - a perfect example - people have an alternate view and you label them in the most extreme way possible.
George Bush never owned the Texans. Bob McNair has been their owner since the onset
He was a part owner of the Rangers.
Fucking idiots all over this place.
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There's a number of factors. I don't know the answer but I do knowy father, a football fan of 30+ years, did not only refuse to watch a single game last season but also disallowed my siblings from even having it on the TV in his home. And that was due to the protests so to think it isn't one of those factors is naieve.
So your father refuses to watch the NFL , but he'll watch the NFL when you have Ahmad Brooks, who has been charged with misdemeanor sexual battery, Dede Westbrook, who was arrested twice for assaulting the mother of his children, Joe Mixon, who was caught on tape punching a woman until she was knocked out and Josh Brown who beat his wife more than a dozen times? Interesting.
And, of course, dad could also use the pre-game time to pee or make a sandwich, and turn the tv on at the kickoff.
Then my Professor talked about how it was a bunch of males in a tavern picking people they or their wives didn't like and choosing who to hang. Some people chose wives or mistresses to get rid of "the other woman".
The point being that a sliding scale of morality has always existed.
If you refuse to watch a product because somebody kneels during the anthem in a sport where people are left drooling invalids and feature steroid abusers, wife beaters and other felonious characters and think there's a certain moral ground to the stance, you are probably the one that is fucked.
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In comment 13911091 bceagle05 said:
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What are businesses that are predominantly African-American would have shut something like this down? Zero.
The owners were well within their legal right to stop this from becoming an issue from the start. But they didn't. They actually showed a great deal of sensitivity. It's stunning you can't see and/or appreciate it.
The NFL didn't shut it down because it couldn't since:
1) The overwhelming majority of their athletes are minorities
2) A large part of their fanbase are minorities
The NFL wasn't being caring and compassionate, they were doing a political triangulation that frankly mollified nobody.
NBA forces players to stand and the majority of the NBA is african-americans. NFL has done more for this topic than most people realize, but since there is an oddity or an outliner - people will always complain.
There are a ton of safeties, some that are better than Reid unsigned. People who dealt, like Mike Thomas, have been signed who have been demonstrative.
And last time I checked - the draft didnt even start yet? I didnt read this thread - but maybe teams are waiting to see how the draft goes before signing anymore players?
There are a ton of safeties, some that are better than Reid unsigned. People who dealt, like Mike Thomas, have been signed who have been demonstrative.
And last time I checked - the draft didnt even start yet? I didnt read this thread - but maybe teams are waiting to see how the draft goes before signing anymore players?
Right.. and the laws of supply and demand are always at work here. A few safeties out there with no takers at today's price. Meanwhile, we may have had to over pay a bit for Solder since left tackles are harder to find. This is how the system is supposed to work.
If it truly is all about "winning" and Reid provides a team with a better chance to do that, they he will find a job. Otherwise, he will watch from the couch just like the rest of us.
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There are a ton of safeties, some that are better than Reid unsigned. People who dealt, like Mike Thomas, have been signed who have been demonstrative.
And last time I checked - the draft didnt even start yet? I didnt read this thread - but maybe teams are waiting to see how the draft goes before signing anymore players?
Right.. and the laws of supply and demand are always at work here. A few safeties out there with no takers at today's price. Meanwhile, we may have had to over pay a bit for Solder since left tackles are harder to find. This is how the system is supposed to work.
If it truly is all about "winning" and Reid provides a team with a better chance to do that, they he will find a job. Otherwise, he will watch from the couch just like the rest of us.
Other than the National Anthem have the players given back to the communities and given their time there? I am not discrediting the merit or the cause they are supporting I just dont think it needs to be done during the National Anthem (other than the air time it used to get because they dont even televise it any longer)
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Yeah, I'd love to see the data behind that, because it's very plainly not true.
Would also love to add an "unarmed" filter to that data set and see how that shakes out...
In 2017, there were 68 unarmed people shot and killed by police. 30 white, 20 black, 13 Hispanic, 3 other, 2 unknown.
Overall, 987 people killed by police in 2017. 457 white, 223 black, 179 Hispanic, 44 other, 84 unknown.
2018: 304 people killed by police. 126 white, 61 black, 38 Hispanic, 10 other, 69 unknown. 16 unarmed people, of whom 9 were white, 6 were black, 1 Hispanic. Washington Post police shooting database - ( New Window ) [/quote]
This is "disproportionate". The cops need to shoot more white dudes. :-/
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In comment 13911224 okayrene said:
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There's a number of factors. I don't know the answer but I do knowy father, a football fan of 30+ years, did not only refuse to watch a single game last season but also disallowed my siblings from even having it on the TV in his home. And that was due to the protests so to think it isn't one of those factors is naieve.
So your father refuses to watch the NFL , but he'll watch the NFL when you have Ahmad Brooks, who has been charged with misdemeanor sexual battery, Dede Westbrook, who was arrested twice for assaulting the mother of his children, Joe Mixon, who was caught on tape punching a woman until she was knocked out and Josh Brown who beat his wife more than a dozen times? Interesting.
Yes. Though I doubt he looks at it as one vs. the other, I'm not here to defend his opinion. That's simply the reason he chose to not watch.
SO you don't fit in. Go find Big Blue MSNBC or Big Blue STATE and have a Coke and a smile and STFU.
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George W. Bush used to own the Texans.
George Bush never owned the Texans. Bob McNair has been their owner since the onset
He was a part owner of the Rangers.
Fucking idiots all over this place.
I'm pretty sure he meant Rangers, since he transitioned to baseball in his previous paragraph.
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In comment 13911224 okayrene said:
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There's a number of factors. I don't know the answer but I do knowy father, a football fan of 30+ years, did not only refuse to watch a single game last season but also disallowed my siblings from even having it on the TV in his home. And that was due to the protests so to think it isn't one of those factors is naieve.
So your father refuses to watch the NFL , but he'll watch the NFL when you have Ahmad Brooks, who has been charged with misdemeanor sexual battery, Dede Westbrook, who was arrested twice for assaulting the mother of his children, Joe Mixon, who was caught on tape punching a woman until she was knocked out and Josh Brown who beat his wife more than a dozen times? Interesting.
Furthermore, you're essentially saying that there's nothing the NFL could do that would force you to stop watching right? Because at that point you have to look at yourself and say, I watched when they employed criminals but this is my breaking point, painting yourself in the same light
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Yeah, I'd love to see the data behind that, because it's very plainly not true.
Would also love to add an "unarmed" filter to that data set and see how that shakes out...
In 2017, there were 68 unarmed people shot and killed by police. 30 white, 20 black, 13 Hispanic, 3 other, 2 unknown.
Overall, 987 people killed by police in 2017. 457 white, 223 black, 179 Hispanic, 44 other, 84 unknown.
2018: 304 people killed by police. 126 white, 61 black, 38 Hispanic, 10 other, 69 unknown. 16 unarmed people, of whom 9 were white, 6 were black, 1 Hispanic. Washington Post police shooting database - ( New Window )
This is "disproportionate". The cops need to shoot more white dudes. :-/ [/quote]
This is not how math works.
I know you were talking to Ryan above. My feeling is that I really dont care if every NFL team is loaded with ex convicts from top to bottom. I want to see the best football. I also want my NFL to be a break from politics and all of the other discussions that seem to get woven into everything else. You cannot watch sitcoms, news, social media and sometimes even discussions at work without bringing up the same topics. I want my NFL experience to be a 3 hour session where it is just about football. I dont want anyone preaching shit to me that has nothing to do with the game. Another reason why I do not watch the commercials either. Once you allow someone to get on a pulpit when there should not even be one AND their message is polarizing... you lose customers. Period... end of story.
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This thread is a great example of why some people have christened BBI "Big Breitbart Interactive".
SO you don't fit in. Go find Big Blue MSNBC or Big Blue STATE and have a Coke and a smile and STFU.
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So BBI is only for white conservatives now is what your saying. The owner of this site should be worried that his site is now being compared to racist drivel. I mean we can disagree on the issues but to see that this site is turning full white supremacist is kinda strange.
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I watched when they employed criminals but this is my breaking point
I know you were talking to Ryan above. My feeling is that I really dont care if every NFL team is loaded with ex convicts from top to bottom. I want to see the best football. I also want my NFL to be a break from politics and all of the other discussions that seem to get woven into everything else. You cannot watch sitcoms, news, social media and sometimes even discussions at work without bringing up the same topics. I want my NFL experience to be a 3 hour session where it is just about football. I dont want anyone preaching shit to me that has nothing to do with the game. Another reason why I do not watch the commercials either. Once you allow someone to get on a pulpit when there should not even be one AND their message is polarizing... you lose customers. Period... end of story.
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As black guy who use to be a huge football fan I couldn't agree more I just want politics gone from football period.
As black guy who use to be a huge football fan I couldn't agree more I just want politics gone from football period.
It's not just football. I cannot even watch night time TV talk shows or stand up comedy which I have always loved. These people have no imagination anymore and speak almost solely about politics.