The Bengals are OK with guys like Mixon and his KO of a girl on video. That gets you drafted in round 2 in 2017.
Reid goes there and the Bengals owner has a problem and won't sign him because of his protests.
The entire NFL is full of shit. And the NFLPA isn't doing shit about it either.
Where is the outrage with the treatment of Reid?
Kapernick? You could blame it on his struggles as a passer, not fitting the scheme, and game plan issues as a backup.
Reid? He's in his prime. He can play on any team and help you win right now. There are no excuses with this player. There is no reason a 26 year old S/LB of his skill doesn't have plenty of action right now.
Why aren't teams signing him? Why aren't the Giants signing him? Who is asking this question to the NYG? I want to hear the answer from them.
Reid could play with Collins. He could move up to LB. Play S. And give us a lot of flexibility. Why aren't the Giants bringing him in? Because he took a knee during the anthem? This guy's livelihood is being ripped from him because of it while the NFL has no problem signing guys like Hardy, Mixon, etc.
"Why aren't you bringing in Eric Reid?"
I want this question answered clearly by the NYG. He can help the team and he can be signed at a bargain because of this BS. But they still don't even bring him in? Why?
Every NFL team has a right to do what's best for their business.
You may even find an owner who agrees with the cause but would still shy away from a player associated with it.
Such is life in business and with one's money.
There are no victims here.
^^^ This guy gets it.
When Colin K began his on the field protest, the 49ers (who are in one of the most liberal cities in the country) began to lose a significant amount of fan support when you would assume that most of those fans would side with Colin. It impacted their revenue. Fan outrage over this was so broad that its ripple effect spread to other teams as well. John Mara said he received thousands of letters from fans basically warning him that they would not support the team if the Giants supported the idea of kneeling during the anthem.
Now, some of you brought up potentially valid comparisons of players involved in domestic abuse. Valid up until the point where virtually none of those instances have impacted or threatened the revenue of a team. We have seen no protests of a team due to having a player on the roster who was guilty of domestic abuse. None that I am aware of anyway... and none significant enough to where it is impacting team revenue.
The revenue in the end is what it is all about. It has nothing to do with beliefs or causes.
I until recently, wasn't even aware Eric Reid Knelt.
Again, my thoughts are the same as my previous post @ 12:16. I think its a safe assumption that some teams aren't as quick to sign a guy that has knelt ($$ and talent obviously plays into this)..but in general safeties aren't being signed.
Mike Mitchell
Ricardo Allen (young low cost guy)
Eric Reid
Tre Boston
Kenny Vaccaro
Now my ignorance shouldn't be extended across all fans as there are certainly quite a few here who knew Reid knelt and I'm sure the owners know, but my point from way above remains that extrapolating what Reid did to being the reason he's unsigned is most likely ignoring other factors.
JonC mentioned that. The point about safeties as a whole being unsigned has been mentioned.
Demanding answers on why the giants haven't signed Reid, almost in an accusatory fashion as if they are doing it simply out of discrimination is really weak. But then again I hate passive outrage - the type directed when someone who hasn't taken action is accused of something, rather than the outrage of when deliberate action is taken.
More than any other sport/business that I can think of, they have allowed their business to suffer hundreds of millions of dollars in lost business in order to accommodate the protestors. Greedy and insensitive ownership could have shut this down from the beginning, and they would have been within their legal rights to do so. But they didn't. They stood by the players. They listened. And they have actually given millions of dollars now to support the causes that the players support. And the NFL is still hemorrhaging money because of it.
Yet no matter what the NFL does, it isn't good enough.
I bet you it isn't nearly as much as guys like Kapernick and Reid have sacrificed for standing up (or kneeling if you will) for an issue that the some of the American public is implying that doesn't exist because it doesn't affect them. You'll have folks like allstarjim here who will take a few cases when a white person has been gunned down and say 'See! It happens to white people too!' but ignoring how much more often it happens to people of color (and I'm not just referring to AAs). One kid (guess the race) shoots up a local church or school and gets taken alive.... meanwhile another kid (again, guess the race) gets gunned down (shot at over 20 times!) while holding a cellphone. But I'm supposed to believe that's all a media creation... just like there are some who believe the school shootings are hoaxes to some I suppose.
I can appreciate what the NFL has done so far and yet still believe that more can be done to raise awareness to this issue.
I figure they'd know him better than your average non-fan-of-the-team-he-played for did. But you bring up the signing of Michael Thomas as if it disproves the notion that the Giants would have been too wary to sign Eric Reid, an arguably better player (I don't know this for sure, as again, I don't really know who Michael Thomas is).
As a fan of a team that's sucked for years, I'd be pretty annoyed if I were to learn that the Giants didn't consider signing Eric Reid after sitting down with him and talking about protests.
NFL.com traffic plummeted last year.
TV contract... already fixed. But if the 2-year trend continues, advertisers would be crazy to spend the same amount when TV ratings have dropped so rapidly.
Bottom line is this is hurting the NFL's bottom line and it could get much, much worse depending on the next TV contract.
On the other hand, go team by team and look at who protested last year and see if they are still under contract or have been signed.
NFL.com traffic plummeted last year.
TV contract... already fixed. But if the 2-year trend continues, advertisers would be crazy to spend the same amount when TV ratings have dropped so rapidly.
Bottom line is this is hurting the NFL's bottom line and it could get much, much worse depending on the next TV contract.
You're attributing the decline in tv ratings to this? I'd attribute it to over saturation and a declining on field product.
If Eric Reid is still unsigned by week 10 would you admit he's not being signed due to his protest?
Incorrect. They could've shut this down and said, "we don't care what views you hold, or what you say on your time while not in uniform, not at organization events, or on company property, but when you are, you will not engage in any activity or speech like this."
I guarantee you if every single one of the kneelers were suspended immediately and/or released, there would be no shortage of players, even African American players. For a lot of these guys, taking care of their families and cashing large paychecks are always going to win. If it's your livelihood, especially one in which you are very-well compensated, you will toe that company line and check your politics at the door.
HA! U think???
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Empty stadiums... not all teams sell out in advance... plus all of those lost concessions. I would also be curious to see how team apparel sales did. (That's the one thing the NFL came after me about is when I started to see apparel...they sicked their lawyers on me then).
NFL.com traffic plummeted last year.
TV contract... already fixed. But if the 2-year trend continues, advertisers would be crazy to spend the same amount when TV ratings have dropped so rapidly.
Bottom line is this is hurting the NFL's bottom line and it could get much, much worse depending on the next TV contract.
You're attributing the decline in tv ratings to this? I'd attribute it to over saturation and a declining on field product.
If Eric Reid is still unsigned by week 10 would you admit he's not being signed due to his protest?
Yes, because the viewers have said so themselves.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/poll-kaepernicks-anthem-protests-biggest-reason-nfl-viewers-stopped-watching/
Why am I not protesting? 1) I don't have an issue with criminals who intentionally make a dangerous situation for cops trying to do their jobs getting shot, which is the vast majority of these cases.
2) In the VERY few examples in which the police shooting was very clearly excessive and unnecessary, we have a justice system that evaluates the facts and criminal charges, due process, and hopefully, prosecution and justice follows, as in the case of Walter Scott. In some cases, due process results in a jury finding the offending officer not guilty. Although we may disagree, and I do, often, our system of government and justice was built upon some of the guilty going free in favor of more of the innocent being incarcerated. Any time there is injustice it sucks, but at minimum, a jury heard both arguments and at least the offender was tried for their alleged crime.
3) I have a job and because of points 1) and 2), it is not
important to me at all.
1) even if the judgment (in this case getting shot) getting handed can be deemed excessive? Funny how a certain individual can make a statement that a soldier 'knew what he was signing up for' with regards to him being killed during combat and some folks think 'Well, he's right!' and yet that doesn't appear to apply for police officers. All they need to do is say 'I feared for my life.'... whether that fear is warranted or not... and it's usually enough for them to either get off completely or suffer a slap on the wrist.
2) the justice system fails minorities every day... and I'd change your sentence from 'In some cases, due process results in a jury finding the offending officer not guilty.' to 'In MOST cases...' personally... and sorry, there's something wrong with a system where it's accepted that some of the guilty go free and some of the innocent get incarcerated. To accept that as being 'it is what it is' is unacceptable.
3) well that's convenient. As I said, it's not important to you because it's rare that it can or will affect you (assuming you're not a person of color). So yeah... you can afford to have that mindset. Unfortunately, not all of us can.
It's not clear that Reid has suffered at all.
Mike Mitchell - Not signed because he sucks. Really. He sucks.
Tre Boston - HE's OK. Not a plus starter. Limited speed. I wouldn't give him a good deal. It's about money here. NYG (and many others) talked to him but didn't want to pay.
Ricardo Allen - Not a FA. 2nd round tender. Still with ATL and working on long term deal.
Reid? Nobody called. His first team visit was yesterday with CIN.
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With all due respect, you are not fully appreciating or understanding what the NFL has sacrificed because of these protests.
More than any other sport/business that I can think of, they have allowed their business to suffer hundreds of millions of dollars in lost business in order to accommodate the protestors. Greedy and insensitive ownership could have shut this down from the beginning, and they would have been within their legal rights to do so. But they didn't. They stood by the players. They listened. And they have actually given millions of dollars now to support the causes that the players support. And the NFL is still hemorrhaging money because of it.
Yet no matter what the NFL does, it isn't good enough.
I bet you it isn't nearly as much as guys like Kapernick and Reid have sacrificed for standing up (or kneeling if you will) for an issue that the some of the American public is implying that doesn't exist because it doesn't affect them. You'll have folks like allstarjim here who will take a few cases when a white person has been gunned down and say 'See! It happens to white people too!' but ignoring how much more often it happens to people of color (and I'm not just referring to AAs). One kid (guess the race) shoots up a local church or school and gets taken alive.... meanwhile another kid (again, guess the race) gets gunned down (shot at over 20 times!) while holding a cellphone. But I'm supposed to believe that's all a media creation... just like there are some who believe the school shootings are hoaxes to some I suppose.
I can appreciate what the NFL has done so far and yet still believe that more can be done to raise awareness to this issue.
White people get shot more by cops than black people as a percentage of officer-suspect engagements.
The truth will set you free from this nonsense.
I realize this is a gray area, but stick to the football aspects.
Or is it about the product, change in the game, problems with calling a catch a catch, CTE, the massive drop in participation on the youth level?
Or is it about kneeling?
Or is it about the product, change in the game, problems with calling a catch a catch, CTE, the massive drop in participation on the youth level?
Or is it about kneeling?
This is going to turn political if we get into that. I would be happy to discuss offline.
OTOH any player making a public protest while wearing the uniform is volunarily risking his livelihood by doing so. Every rational person knows ownership is motivated only by profit and protest by definition will upset some paying customers and put profits at risk.
I realize this is a gray area, but stick to the football aspects.
Sorry about that. I will see my way out of the thread and get back to football discussion.
Mike Mitchell - Not signed because he sucks. Really. He sucks.
Tre Boston - HE's OK. Not a plus starter. Limited speed. I wouldn't give him a good deal. It's about money here. NYG (and many others) talked to him but didn't want to pay.
Ricardo Allen - Not a FA. 2nd round tender. Still with ATL and working on long term deal.
Reid? Nobody called. His first team visit was yesterday with CIN.
These guys belong on a roster. lol youre grasping. Now we're going with they've gotten more meetings with teams? These guys are unsigned. They might "suck" but they have a place in the league. right now they dont. Also- your assessments of players are absolute! genius! genius! genius!
There are many reasons for it.
Price at stadiums to go to a game.
Drop in TV viewers across the board.
Many things have lead to the drop in viewers.
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In comment 13911088 Eric from BBI said:
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With all due respect, you are not fully appreciating or understanding what the NFL has sacrificed because of these protests.
More than any other sport/business that I can think of, they have allowed their business to suffer hundreds of millions of dollars in lost business in order to accommodate the protestors. Greedy and insensitive ownership could have shut this down from the beginning, and they would have been within their legal rights to do so. But they didn't. They stood by the players. They listened. And they have actually given millions of dollars now to support the causes that the players support. And the NFL is still hemorrhaging money because of it.
Yet no matter what the NFL does, it isn't good enough.
I bet you it isn't nearly as much as guys like Kapernick and Reid have sacrificed for standing up (or kneeling if you will) for an issue that the some of the American public is implying that doesn't exist because it doesn't affect them. You'll have folks like allstarjim here who will take a few cases when a white person has been gunned down and say 'See! It happens to white people too!' but ignoring how much more often it happens to people of color (and I'm not just referring to AAs). One kid (guess the race) shoots up a local church or school and gets taken alive.... meanwhile another kid (again, guess the race) gets gunned down (shot at over 20 times!) while holding a cellphone. But I'm supposed to believe that's all a media creation... just like there are some who believe the school shootings are hoaxes to some I suppose.
I can appreciate what the NFL has done so far and yet still believe that more can be done to raise awareness to this issue.
White people get shot more by cops than black people as a percentage of officer-suspect engagements.
The truth will set you free from this nonsense.
This, however, is not the truth
One of your guys isn't a FA.
Vacarro will get a deal but he was on IR at the end of last year. And he didn't play well. Teams don't line up to throw cash at that.
Then you have Boston? He's OK. and he will be on a roster.
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In comment 13911047 allstarjim said:
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In comment 13911028 2ndroundKO said:
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In comment 13911007 allstarjim said:
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In comment 13910981 2ndroundKO said:
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How the hell do you extrapolate OP’s comments into some generalization about being a victim?
But let’s see where this rabbithole goes.
Then you may be an idiot because Eric is 100% correct and you probably are too dumb to get it.
Don’t make me laugh.
Well, I think you made it pretty clear you aren't exactly honor roll material.
You really think that, allstarjim? My day is ruined.
No to be honest I don't think that. I think you are a smart guy and I apologize for attacking your intelligence. Just because I think you may have a blind spot on this issue doesn't mean you aren't a thoughtful, intelligent person. I have friends who do not agree with me on this very issue. Friends I think very highly of. It drives me crazy. I also know and have known many people in law enforcement and nearly all of them are really good, honest people with high character, and the very few that rubbed me the wrong way gave me no reason to believe they were unprofessional in their duties or were racially biased in any way.
These guys don't want to shoot anyone. You have to consider the very large number of incidents and interactions that happen in America daily. There are something like 2 million cops in this country, and think about the daily interactions that happen with the public in each town and city in our country. Most of those are routine, professional, and without incident. We are discussing the very small percentage that do not go well. And you will always have a small percentage of things not going well when you deal with anything in very large numbers. It is not indicative of systemic anything.
See... the line in bold is what you believe because of the few number of officers you know and have had experience with... but there's seems to be a large enough number of them who wouldn't hesitate to shoot whether the situation calls for it or not. Shit, there's a video or something out right now where a sheriff is quoted and saying he'd rather just kill a guy because it's less expensive!
I know it damages the ideal you have in your head that all cops are great guys but unfortunately that's not the case at all. I just recently watched a video where a guy (who happened to be white by the way) goes into various police departments to ask how to file a police complaint in Florida and the actions by some of the officers on the video is absolutely disgusting... and the whole time I'm thinking 'Sheesh... I wonder what would've happened had he been black or hispanic?'.
He's more of a poor mans LC
I thought it already was?!
I apologize.
I disagree. If they had set this policy from the start, the issue would have died. Instead, they enabled the protests to continue. I can't think of another business who has done more to support support the issue. Can you?
I realize this is a gray area, but stick to the football aspects.
He's 31 this year. I'd give him a short term deal but it would be cheap. He can start for a year or 2.
Here is a guy who made up a bullshit story about the police, was indicted for felony assault of an elderly woman, and made headlines for saying teams need more "thugs" like Latrell Sprewell who notoriously attacked and strangled his own head coach.
This is what I was trying to say. If they didn't side with the players, the union would have crucified the league and it would have been an even bigger issue.
Why isn't this player signed?
I'd place my bet on $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
In the end it is all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
It's not clear that Reid has suffered at all.
Actually... if I remember correctly... he opted out of his contract no? He didn't have to and (again, I may be remembering this wrong) was in no danger of being cut. He left the Niners... not the other way around.
And I'd suggest that him not being able to participate in the occupation of his choice... playing the game he loves... and becoming a pariah in his own country... is a pretty big sacrifice. But I guess that's not enough for you?
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In comment 13911088 Eric from BBI said:
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With all due respect, you are not fully appreciating or understanding what the NFL has sacrificed because of these protests.
More than any other sport/business that I can think of, they have allowed their business to suffer hundreds of millions of dollars in lost business in order to accommodate the protestors. Greedy and insensitive ownership could have shut this down from the beginning, and they would have been within their legal rights to do so. But they didn't. They stood by the players. They listened. And they have actually given millions of dollars now to support the causes that the players support. And the NFL is still hemorrhaging money because of it.
Yet no matter what the NFL does, it isn't good enough.
I bet you it isn't nearly as much as guys like Kapernick and Reid have sacrificed for standing up (or kneeling if you will) for an issue that the some of the American public is implying that doesn't exist because it doesn't affect them. You'll have folks like allstarjim here who will take a few cases when a white person has been gunned down and say 'See! It happens to white people too!' but ignoring how much more often it happens to people of color (and I'm not just referring to AAs). One kid (guess the race) shoots up a local church or school and gets taken alive.... meanwhile another kid (again, guess the race) gets gunned down (shot at over 20 times!) while holding a cellphone. But I'm supposed to believe that's all a media creation... just like there are some who believe the school shootings are hoaxes to some I suppose.
I can appreciate what the NFL has done so far and yet still believe that more can be done to raise awareness to this issue.
White people get shot more by cops than black people as a percentage of officer-suspect engagements.
The truth will set you free from this nonsense.
I'm sure you believe that.
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In comment 13911162 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13911088 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
With all due respect, you are not fully appreciating or understanding what the NFL has sacrificed because of these protests.
More than any other sport/business that I can think of, they have allowed their business to suffer hundreds of millions of dollars in lost business in order to accommodate the protestors. Greedy and insensitive ownership could have shut this down from the beginning, and they would have been within their legal rights to do so. But they didn't. They stood by the players. They listened. And they have actually given millions of dollars now to support the causes that the players support. And the NFL is still hemorrhaging money because of it.
Yet no matter what the NFL does, it isn't good enough.
I bet you it isn't nearly as much as guys like Kapernick and Reid have sacrificed for standing up (or kneeling if you will) for an issue that the some of the American public is implying that doesn't exist because it doesn't affect them. You'll have folks like allstarjim here who will take a few cases when a white person has been gunned down and say 'See! It happens to white people too!' but ignoring how much more often it happens to people of color (and I'm not just referring to AAs). One kid (guess the race) shoots up a local church or school and gets taken alive.... meanwhile another kid (again, guess the race) gets gunned down (shot at over 20 times!) while holding a cellphone. But I'm supposed to believe that's all a media creation... just like there are some who believe the school shootings are hoaxes to some I suppose.
I can appreciate what the NFL has done so far and yet still believe that more can be done to raise awareness to this issue.
White people get shot more by cops than black people as a percentage of officer-suspect engagements.
The truth will set you free from this nonsense.
I'm sure you believe that.
Would also love to add an "unarmed" filter to that data set and see how that shakes out...
The CAP just grew by $10 Million. The Cowboys are about to pack their stadium full of fans to watch the DRAFT. People are paying to get in and their is a waiting list.
The league is fine shape. People still love their team and football.
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In comment 13911057 T-Bone said:
Why am I not protesting? 1) I don't have an issue with criminals who intentionally make a dangerous situation for cops trying to do their jobs getting shot, which is the vast majority of these cases.
2) In the VERY few examples in which the police shooting was very clearly excessive and unnecessary, we have a justice system that evaluates the facts and criminal charges, due process, and hopefully, prosecution and justice follows, as in the case of Walter Scott. In some cases, due process results in a jury finding the offending officer not guilty. Although we may disagree, and I do, often, our system of government and justice was built upon some of the guilty going free in favor of more of the innocent being incarcerated. Any time there is injustice it sucks, but at minimum, a jury heard both arguments and at least the offender was tried for their alleged crime.
3) I have a job and because of points 1) and 2), it is not
important to me at all.
1) even if the judgment (in this case getting shot) getting handed can be deemed excessive? Funny how a certain individual can make a statement that a soldier 'knew what he was signing up for' with regards to him being killed during combat and some folks think 'Well, he's right!' and yet that doesn't appear to apply for police officers. All they need to do is say 'I feared for my life.'... whether that fear is warranted or not... and it's usually enough for them to either get off completely or suffer a slap on the wrist.
2) the justice system fails minorities every day... and I'd change your sentence from 'In some cases, due process results in a jury finding the offending officer not guilty.' to 'In MOST cases...' personally... and sorry, there's something wrong with a system where it's accepted that some of the guilty go free and some of the innocent get incarcerated. To accept that as being 'it is what it is' is unacceptable.
3) well that's convenient. As I said, it's not important to you because it's rare that it can or will affect you (assuming you're not a person of color). So yeah... you can afford to have that mindset. Unfortunately, not all of us can.
Preach on! Agree completely.
"Any time there is injustice it sucks, but at minimum, a jury heard both arguments and at least the offender was tried for their alleged crime."
I can see the same argument being used in the Jim Crow south!