Too much for him but I doubt he's going to be the 4th option there. He's a better option in the pass game than Johnson Jr, Coleman keeps getting hurt and although Gordon is absolutely the best WR on the team, he hasn't played 16 games in 6 years.
Can't really trust him to be on the field all year until he is again.
Anyway - CLE has like 70M in cap space. They can afford this without any issue.
Landry isn't the equivalent of a "Honda" - he's a really good, tough WR who moves chains and gets open.
This is a lot of money for him, but some of you guys talk about this player like he sucks. He doesn't at all.
Landry will catch like 85 balls for them this year and be very productive. Miami has sucked with or without "culture" for the majority of the last however many years it has been since Marino left. They haven't won a playoff game in like 20 years.
But that doesn't make him worth it. And yeah he's going to catch a lot of balls...if he's being targeted 160+ times, he'd better. But there are plenty of guys that can get you 9 yards a catch at a small fraction of that ridiculous contract.
But that doesn't make him worth it. And yeah he's going to catch a lot of balls...if he's being targeted 160+ times, he'd better. But there are plenty of guys that can get you 9 yards a catch at a small fraction of that ridiculous contract.
While I agree, this is the market. Yeah this subject to the team and cap space but if it wasn’t there it would be someone else willing to pay the same.
But that doesn't make him worth it. And yeah he's going to catch a lot of balls...if he's being targeted 160+ times, he'd better. But there are plenty of guys that can get you 9 yards a catch at a small fraction of that ridiculous contract.
He averaged 12 yards a catch in 2016 when he didn't have Cutler throwing to him.
You're going to have a hard time finding fair value contracts for relatively big name players.
If you want a player who can catch 100 balls for you, this is what you pay for him. He's a super reliable option in the pass game, plays in the middle of the field and moves chains. Not every WR has to be Brandin Cooks and spend the majority of their snaps running fly routes or deep posts.
So because you can afford to pay $80,000 for a Honda, you should? Don't we have $15M in dead cap space this season because we made the same mistake?
It's worth remembering too that Miami had stated a need to change the locker room culture, and moving Landry was one of the first moves they made.
Landry is better than a "Honda". With poop as a QB he consistently put up 90+ catch years, runs great routes, goes over the middle of the field and has good hands.
Plus it's supply/demand. You pay $80k for a "Honda" when you have the $ to spend it and there are no Vets or Porches available while your other cars (Coleman and Gordon) have been unreliable.
A "90+ catch year" is not that impressive, and easily replaced Â
Being a slot guy who gets a lot of short passes, he doesn't get a ton of first downs. He finished behind 50+ players for % per catch. He just catches a lot of screens or two yard digs.
Unless you're going to be cold blooded like Belichick you pay full retail for guys on second contracts. Look at the money Pugh & Richburg got after what they put on film the past 2 years.
Being a slot guy who gets a lot of short passes, he doesn't get a ton of first downs. He finished behind 50+ players for % per catch. He just catches a lot of screens or two yard digs.
They're trying to change their offense, which has been garbage for four years with Landry on it.
It was garbage before he was there.
You do this all the time - you take overall team failures and pin it on one player.
Miami has talent evaluation issues across the board. Their offense didn't suck because of Jarvis Landry. It sucked because Jay Cutler is awful and Ryan Tannehill was being sacked more than any other QB in the sport before he got hurt.
They were a shitty team long before Jarvis Landry arrived.
0 playoff wins since 99 and just 2 appearances since 2001.
You do this all the time - you take overall team failures and pin it on one player.
No, I'm pointing out that the player did nothing to improve the situation. Yeah, the Dolphins have been shit. Yeah, there are many reasons beyond Landry for that.
But you see, I have this crazy idea that if a player is going to be paid a huge contract, he should have proven that he improved his team and is worth the contract. I know...it's crazy. What did Landry do to help the Dolphins win more games?
The burden of proof lies with Landry. He has to have shown that he deserves that contract. If I'm the Browns GM and his agent starts rationalizing about how Cutler sucks and how the Dolphins are a shit organization, I hang up the phone.
Landry was part of the reason the Dolphins were a loser on the field, and why their locker room was shit. He'll likely be part of the reason for the same in Cleveland...I imagine in three years his fans will be rationalizing about how Josh Allen or Sam Darnold in Cleveland sucks.
Losing player that catches lots of bubble screens. But he fooled Cleveland into believing he was otherwise, so good for him.
Your argument presupposes that MIA wouldn't have been any worse without him.
Beyond that - it's pretty hard for any non-QB to move the needle enough on their own in this league. Doesn't mean the player doesn't have value
DeAndre Hopkins isn't the reason HOU won 4 games. They've been a playoff team with him in the recent past. Their QB situation fucking sucked after Watson was hurt (sound familiar?) and when they lost Watt, they had very little talent on the defensive side of the ball outside of Clowney.
There are really good players all over the league on bad teams and they have nothing to do with the team being bad.
big problem with contracts like this is they inflate the Â
90 catches from one player? Is that a measuring stick?
A player's impact is not about number of catches. Its not a base hit. It's a catch and it can be used to overvalue a player which I strongly believe is the case with Landry.
CLE overpaid big time for this player.
He won't like the 60% cut in targets he sees in year 1.
I think paying any wide receiver this kind of contract is foolish...they aren't the reason you win titles no matter how good they are.
But if you're going to pay one of Hopkins or Landry, that's not a discussion. Hopkins is IMO the best WR in the league right now, and the other is a step above a JAG. Landry isn't doing anything a bunch of other guys in the league can. We could get Davis Webb to throw Sterling Shepard 160 bubble screens and he's going to catch 100 of them.
90 catches from one player? Is that a measuring stick?
A player's impact is not about number of catches. Its not a base hit. It's a catch and it can be used to overvalue a player which I strongly believe is the case with Landry.
CLE overpaid big time for this player.
He won't like the 60% cut in targets he sees in year 1.
He'll be a 4th option.
And he won't make it to year 3 of this contract.
Terrible deal by CLE.
He's absolutely not going to be the "4th option" there. He's better than Coleman (who can't even stay healthy) and he's a better pass catcher than Johnson Jr.
He will lead the team in catches this season. Book it.
which are usually not distinguished in the first report.
Spotrac breaks it down as "guaranteed at signing" and "total guarantees." Only "guaranteed at signing" is fully guaranteed, which is what most people think of when they see the word guaranteed.
Nate Solder's $35 million guaranteed was all "guaranteed at signing". In contrast, only a little more than half of Weston Richburg's 28 million guaranteed (which got the headline) was in fact guaranteed at signing. The rest of his "guarantees" are subject to options being picked up at the end of every year.
We know Landry has $47 million in guarantees. But, at this moment, we don't know how much money this contract guarantees he will in fact receive.
I think paying any wide receiver this kind of contract is foolish...they aren't the reason you win titles no matter how good they are.
But if you're going to pay one of Hopkins or Landry, that's not a discussion. Hopkins is IMO the best WR in the league right now, and the other is a step above a JAG. Landry isn't doing anything a bunch of other guys in the league can. We could get Davis Webb to throw Sterling Shepard 160 bubble screens and he's going to catch 100 of them.
Got it - so you wouldn't even pay the best WR in football (even though Hopkins isn't it)
Over the hill vets and rookie contracts only.
Better hit on those picks because your WR's are going to suck if you don't.
And can we stop with the hyperbole over the bubble screens? He does more than that. You tell me I rationalize shit - you're needing to completely over-exaggerate to prove this guy is not any good.
90 catches doesn't have to be a "measuring stick" but when you consider that only 25% of the league even had a player capable of it and that nearly every player who did is really good - I'd say it means the guy is probably pretty good.
If it was so easy to catch 90 balls in this league, every team would have a guy doing it - yet 3/4 of the league doesn't have a guy who does.
But it is very difficult to put a value on Landry. He moves the chains and will get a ton of catches but he is not a deep threat at all. Very similar to the Giants Steve Smith.
Those are his average stats the past 3 years with a crappy QB. Not elite, but not average IMO. He may not be as flashy (or good for that matter) as Jones, ODB, Brown, but he's very good and versatile. He runs all the routes, catches passes over the middle and can also return kicks.
But it is very difficult to put a value on Landry. He moves the chains and will get a ton of catches but he is not a deep threat at all. Very similar to the Giants Steve Smith.
And everyone here loved Steve Smith when he was healthy. He helped us win a Super Bowl in 2007 providing virtually zero RAC ability and probably caught 2 passes over 30 yards in his entire career.
Can't really trust him to be on the field all year until he is again.
Anyway - CLE has like 70M in cap space. They can afford this without any issue.
It's worth remembering too that Miami had stated a need to change the locker room culture, and moving Landry was one of the first moves they made.
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This is a lot of money for him, but some of you guys talk about this player like he sucks. He doesn't at all.
Landry will catch like 85 balls for them this year and be very productive. Miami has sucked with or without "culture" for the majority of the last however many years it has been since Marino left. They haven't won a playoff game in like 20 years.
This won't hamper them at all.
4th option? Still hanging on dearly to your original Corey Coleman evaluation?
But that doesn't make him worth it. And yeah he's going to catch a lot of balls...if he's being targeted 160+ times, he'd better. But there are plenty of guys that can get you 9 yards a catch at a small fraction of that ridiculous contract.
But that doesn't make him worth it. And yeah he's going to catch a lot of balls...if he's being targeted 160+ times, he'd better. But there are plenty of guys that can get you 9 yards a catch at a small fraction of that ridiculous contract.
While I agree, this is the market. Yeah this subject to the team and cap space but if it wasn’t there it would be someone else willing to pay the same.
But that doesn't make him worth it. And yeah he's going to catch a lot of balls...if he's being targeted 160+ times, he'd better. But there are plenty of guys that can get you 9 yards a catch at a small fraction of that ridiculous contract.
He averaged 12 yards a catch in 2016 when he didn't have Cutler throwing to him.
You're going to have a hard time finding fair value contracts for relatively big name players.
If you want a player who can catch 100 balls for you, this is what you pay for him. He's a super reliable option in the pass game, plays in the middle of the field and moves chains. Not every WR has to be Brandin Cooks and spend the majority of their snaps running fly routes or deep posts.
Landry is a good player, not $15mil a year good. They could have added way more to their team for that money.
So let them pay that. I'm not disputing that there are incompetent GMs in the NFL. This contract is proof that they're definitely around.
It's worth remembering too that Miami had stated a need to change the locker room culture, and moving Landry was one of the first moves they made.
Landry is better than a "Honda". With poop as a QB he consistently put up 90+ catch years, runs great routes, goes over the middle of the field and has good hands.
Plus it's supply/demand. You pay $80k for a "Honda" when you have the $ to spend it and there are no Vets or Porches available while your other cars (Coleman and Gordon) have been unreliable.
For all that money.
For all that money.
Again - Jay Cutler is horrible.
He was top 20 the year before.
1 Jarvis Landry
2 Larry Fitzgerald,
3 Michael Thomas
4 Keenan Allen,
5 Antonio Brown,
6 DeAndre Hopkins
7 Golden Tate
8 Adam Thielen
I'm sure Miami will be able to just pull a WR like that out of their asses to replace Landry.
Blame Cutler all you want, the truth is Landry hasn't had a year in his career even remotely worth this contract.
It was garbage before he was there.
You do this all the time - you take overall team failures and pin it on one player.
Miami has talent evaluation issues across the board. Their offense didn't suck because of Jarvis Landry. It sucked because Jay Cutler is awful and Ryan Tannehill was being sacked more than any other QB in the sport before he got hurt.
They were a shitty team long before Jarvis Landry arrived.
0 playoff wins since 99 and just 2 appearances since 2001.
What a model franchise....
No, I'm pointing out that the player did nothing to improve the situation. Yeah, the Dolphins have been shit. Yeah, there are many reasons beyond Landry for that.
But you see, I have this crazy idea that if a player is going to be paid a huge contract, he should have proven that he improved his team and is worth the contract. I know...it's crazy. What did Landry do to help the Dolphins win more games?
The burden of proof lies with Landry. He has to have shown that he deserves that contract. If I'm the Browns GM and his agent starts rationalizing about how Cutler sucks and how the Dolphins are a shit organization, I hang up the phone.
Landry was part of the reason the Dolphins were a loser on the field, and why their locker room was shit. He'll likely be part of the reason for the same in Cleveland...I imagine in three years his fans will be rationalizing about how Josh Allen or Sam Darnold in Cleveland sucks.
Losing player that catches lots of bubble screens. But he fooled Cleveland into believing he was otherwise, so good for him.
He didn't help them win the 10 games they won that year?
They lost their QB and had to start Matt Moore in the playoffs so PIT ran them over.
Beyond that - it's pretty hard for any non-QB to move the needle enough on their own in this league. Doesn't mean the player doesn't have value
DeAndre Hopkins isn't the reason HOU won 4 games. They've been a playoff team with him in the recent past. Their QB situation fucking sucked after Watson was hurt (sound familiar?) and when they lost Watt, they had very little talent on the defensive side of the ball outside of Clowney.
There are really good players all over the league on bad teams and they have nothing to do with the team being bad.
Landry will do more of the same in Cleveland that he did in Miami, just at enormous cost.
Pretty easy to do with Tom Brady under center.
None of those guys would be anywhere near as effective in Cleveland or Miami.
Wes Welker's production nearly doubled when he left Miami for NE.
Additionally, almost every single one of those guys was hurt last year.
Landry will do more of the same in Cleveland that he did in Miami, just at enormous cost.
Great, so you're strengthening my point by crediting Hopkins as an excellent WR.
How did he help make the Texans better last year? They won 4 fucking games.
A player's impact is not about number of catches. Its not a base hit. It's a catch and it can be used to overvalue a player which I strongly believe is the case with Landry.
CLE overpaid big time for this player.
He won't like the 60% cut in targets he sees in year 1.
He'll be a 4th option.
And he won't make it to year 3 of this contract.
Terrible deal by CLE.
But if you're going to pay one of Hopkins or Landry, that's not a discussion. Hopkins is IMO the best WR in the league right now, and the other is a step above a JAG. Landry isn't doing anything a bunch of other guys in the league can. We could get Davis Webb to throw Sterling Shepard 160 bubble screens and he's going to catch 100 of them.
But he isn't close to a top 20 player at his position.
Severely overrated.
A player's impact is not about number of catches. Its not a base hit. It's a catch and it can be used to overvalue a player which I strongly believe is the case with Landry.
CLE overpaid big time for this player.
He won't like the 60% cut in targets he sees in year 1.
He'll be a 4th option.
And he won't make it to year 3 of this contract.
Terrible deal by CLE.
He's absolutely not going to be the "4th option" there. He's better than Coleman (who can't even stay healthy) and he's a better pass catcher than Johnson Jr.
He will lead the team in catches this season. Book it.
4th options don't manage that or even come close.
He won't be gone after 2 years either.
Spotrac breaks it down as "guaranteed at signing" and "total guarantees." Only "guaranteed at signing" is fully guaranteed, which is what most people think of when they see the word guaranteed.
Nate Solder's $35 million guaranteed was all "guaranteed at signing". In contrast, only a little more than half of Weston Richburg's 28 million guaranteed (which got the headline) was in fact guaranteed at signing. The rest of his "guarantees" are subject to options being picked up at the end of every year.
We know Landry has $47 million in guarantees. But, at this moment, we don't know how much money this contract guarantees he will in fact receive.
But if you're going to pay one of Hopkins or Landry, that's not a discussion. Hopkins is IMO the best WR in the league right now, and the other is a step above a JAG. Landry isn't doing anything a bunch of other guys in the league can. We could get Davis Webb to throw Sterling Shepard 160 bubble screens and he's going to catch 100 of them.
Got it - so you wouldn't even pay the best WR in football (even though Hopkins isn't it)
Over the hill vets and rookie contracts only.
Better hit on those picks because your WR's are going to suck if you don't.
And can we stop with the hyperbole over the bubble screens? He does more than that. You tell me I rationalize shit - you're needing to completely over-exaggerate to prove this guy is not any good.
If it was so easy to catch 90 balls in this league, every team would have a guy doing it - yet 3/4 of the league doesn't have a guy who does.
Rec 105
Yrds 1,100
TD 6
Those are his average stats the past 3 years with a crappy QB. Not elite, but not average IMO. He may not be as flashy (or good for that matter) as Jones, ODB, Brown, but he's very good and versatile. He runs all the routes, catches passes over the middle and can also return kicks.
And everyone here loved Steve Smith when he was healthy. He helped us win a Super Bowl in 2007 providing virtually zero RAC ability and probably caught 2 passes over 30 yards in his entire career.
Come on. The league is full of guys capable of it. They just don't see the targets because that doesn't lead to winning football.
Coleman is better. Gordon is better. They'll draft Barkley. The TE is a bigger threat.
He'll struggle to even grab that 4th option title!