Edlemans stats playing with Brady are similar to Landry with Cutler/Tannehill?
OK, So whats the point?
Oh....wait...one guy plays on a winning team and proven he can be an impact player in the playoffs? This player is also a much better athlete and tougher guy to cover.
Thanks.
Tougher guy to cover yet he catches a lower % of his targets than Landry and doesn't out perform him in any area.
Edlemans stats playing with Brady are similar to Landry with Cutler/Tannehill?
OK, So whats the point?
Oh....wait...one guy plays on a winning team and proven he can be an impact player in the playoffs? This player is also a much better athlete and tougher guy to cover.
Thanks.
If he's so much harder to cover, why isn't that reflected in his numbers? He is not making a bigger impact. He's so much harder to cover that they both average the exact same 7.08 yards/target for their careers...
You can keep calling Landry a "JAG" all you want - but please stop telling other people they need to "rationalize" their opinions when you're grossly exaggerating more than anyone to make your own point.
Limited, yes. Just a guy? Give me a fucking break.
I can give you tons of great "athletes" who couldn't do shit in the NFL. You're too concerned with measurables. That shit doesn't always translate to production and in Edleman's case, all of those athletic advantages he has over Landry have yet to translate on the field. He doesn't produce any more than Landry in any area and he has a far superior QB.
when I read "not close" im expecting the different in play between a Beckham and a Ruben Randle. When I hear Edelman is better than Landry and it "isn't close" I'm going to call bullshit on that every time.
I happen to like both players (injury not withstanding), but to suggest they aren't close is absolutely fucking laughable.
We have guys here saying hes the slow one in this debate.
Thats BS.
he's a much better athlete. And hes faster.
Who said Edelman is slow?
Who cares who the better athlete is? FACT is that their production on the field by every reasonable measure is as close as you can get, so things like "he's a much tougher cover" are just patently absurd.
And here's an article from FO that disputes your notion that Edelman can line up everywhere while Landry can only play in the slot. By their tracking Edelman was significantly worse when lined up out wide, while Landry's efficiency was actually better out wide than in the slot. Link - ( New Window )
when talking about how he'd do outside of NE, not compared to Landry. You read it how you wanted to read it. And Edelman isn't 4.5 fast anymore, he simply isn't, so stop quoting his speed from a decade ago.
the far inferious athlete that you have described Â
has put together better seasons in the NFL with bottom 5 QB play than the guy you are saying is soooo much better and faster and only gets the ole NE boost from playing with Brady.
Landry's lack of speed and size is one of the issues with the player. He's severely limited. Yes, he caught a lot of balls but there is more to it than catches. He can't beat one on one coverage and can't play outside. Edleman can.
My opinion was MIA made the right call taking the draft pick and not paying him. Instead they got a better player in Albert Wilson for much less. If MIA uses Wilson like they used Landry that will improve the team. He's a better player.
I felt any team taking on that contract would make a HUGE mistake. And now with these numbers I think its the worst contract of the year.
We'll see how it goes but I believe Landry will be a bust in CLE and will fall off the totem pole there very quickly.
Landry's lack of speed and size is one of the issues with the player. He's severely limited. Yes, he caught a lot of balls but there is more to it than catches. He can't beat one on one coverage and can't play outside. Edleman can.
FootballOutsiders' disagrees with that.
Quote:
My opinion was MIA made the right call taking the draft pick and not paying him.
I felt any team taking on that contract would make a HUGE mistake. And now with these numbers I think its the worst contract of the year.
I agree with that as I said numerous times. This deal makes him severely overpaid. He's still an above average WR and at least as good as Edelman.
RE: Landry put together better seasons in the NFL Â
Really? According to what? Number of catches on a losing team?
His career highs in yards, yards/receptions, catch %, and TDs all top Edelman's career bests in those categories. In some categories by a significant margin.
You can, but what about his pro day and his actual on field speed and production, that again, points to him being just as effective or more effective catching the ball than Edelman?
You aren't doing a very good job proving your point.
"Landry ran the 40-yard dash in 4.51 seconds – more than a tenth of a second better than his disappointing 4.65 time in the 40 at the NFL Combine last February in Indianapolis that featured various tests, agility drills and timings like Pro Day."
I don't even care at this point. He plays faster and better than the times you are quoting from 4 years ago which is 100% irrelevant now.
I'm on record here saying the guy is going to be a 4th option in CLE, see a 60% reduction in targets, and getting cut after 2 years.
i explained why I feel this way and talked about this production of 3 yard patterns(40+% of his catches) and behind the LOS catches.
IMO, Edelman (before his latest injury) was a better NFL player, could do more, tougher matchup, and makes a team better. He was also a far superior athlete.
You stated he was too slow to make plays outside of NE while defending the much slower player.
I'm on record here saying the guy is going to be a 4th option in CLE, see a 60% reduction in targets, and getting cut after 2 years.
i explained why I feel this way and talked about this production of 3 yard patterns(40+% of his catches) and behind the LOS catches.
IMO, Edelman (before his latest injury) was a better NFL player, could do more, tougher matchup, and makes a team better. He was also a far superior athlete.
You stated he was too slow to make plays outside of NE while defending the much slower player.
I'll assume you are talking to Uconn, because I never said anything about Edelman being too slow.
I'm still waiting for the stats that show he's a tougher matchup or that he can do more (FO's analysis of their 2016 stats show the opposite).
I eagerly await this season to see Landry only targeted 64 times...
Do you have a reference for your 3 yard pattern claim?
I really don't. No one does, except people trying to make an argument that supports a case they can't otherwise make.
You think GM's say "hey, we know you have a lot of catches and look faster on the field but that damn shitty 40 time from 4 years ago must mean you are slow".
Players have bad combines all the time. Happens every year and always will. Why do i need to tell you this?
I didn't say Edelman was slow. I said outside of NE he's isn't fast enough or big enough to be a big time threat. I didn't compare his speed to anyone's else's.
(the faster player) struggle outside or NE, but Landry wont?
You did say that right?
Personally I think Edelman would still be a solid slot WR, but an argument can easily be made than an player would look better with Tom Brady than without. We know what Landry can do with shitty QB play.
(the faster player) struggle outside or NE, but Landry wont?
You did say that right?
Nope, wrong again. I never said he'd struggle or anything. I simply said he wouldn't be a top WR and certainly not as good as he was/is in NE. It was a response to Terps claiming Landry "Isn't close" to the player Edelman is.
YEs Landry can catch 45% of his catches under 3 yards Â
But you're wrong if you think Landry has anything on him.
Just athletically, Edleman is far superior.
Who cares if he's better athletically if that doesn't translate to better production? (hint: it doesn't)
Tim Carter could smoke both of them.
But when you mention that a player benefits majorly from playing there - it's suddenly "daft"
OK, So whats the point?
Oh....wait...one guy plays on a winning team and proven he can be an impact player in the playoffs? This player is also a much better athlete and tougher guy to cover.
Thanks.
Tougher guy to cover yet he catches a lower % of his targets than Landry and doesn't out perform him in any area.
Build whatever straw man you want, it won't justify paying a JAG like Landry this stupid contract.
But there is nothing Landry does that is better than Edelman. Nothing.
The catch stats from either side don't mean shit to show it.
There is nothing Landry does better. Edleman can play outside. Landry can't. In the slot? Landry isn't better.
OK, So whats the point?
Oh....wait...one guy plays on a winning team and proven he can be an impact player in the playoffs? This player is also a much better athlete and tougher guy to cover.
Thanks.
If he's so much harder to cover, why isn't that reflected in his numbers? He is not making a bigger impact. He's so much harder to cover that they both average the exact same 7.08 yards/target for their careers...
Limited, yes. Just a guy? Give me a fucking break.
I happen to like both players (injury not withstanding), but to suggest they aren't close is absolutely fucking laughable.
We have guys here saying hes the slow one in this debate.
Thats BS.
he's a much better athlete. And hes faster.
Edleman and Landry are similar players. But Edleman is better. Can do more.
And you mentioned the lack of speed which is not true in his case. Landry is the much slower player.
We have guys here saying hes the slow one in this debate.
Thats BS.
he's a much better athlete. And hes faster.
Who said Edelman is slow?
Who cares who the better athlete is? FACT is that their production on the field by every reasonable measure is as close as you can get, so things like "he's a much tougher cover" are just patently absurd.
When did Julian Edelman run like Beckham and Landry like Ramses Barden?
It's so easy!
And here's an article from FO that disputes your notion that Edelman can line up everywhere while Landry can only play in the slot. By their tracking Edelman was significantly worse when lined up out wide, while Landry's efficiency was actually better out wide than in the slot.
Link - ( New Window )
But Landry ran a 4.77.
Edleman is an exceptional athlete even by NFL WR standards. He ran the 3 cone almost one full second faster than Landry.
Read that and let it sink in.
Edelman has missed 41 games in his 8 year career.
Landry has missed 0 games in 4 years.
Being a better athlete doesn't mean shit if you aren't on the field.
Tim Carter was a better athlete than Edelman but he still sucked.
Landry's lack of speed and size is one of the issues with the player. He's severely limited. Yes, he caught a lot of balls but there is more to it than catches. He can't beat one on one coverage and can't play outside. Edleman can.
My opinion was MIA made the right call taking the draft pick and not paying him. Instead they got a better player in Albert Wilson for much less. If MIA uses Wilson like they used Landry that will improve the team. He's a better player.
I felt any team taking on that contract would make a HUGE mistake. And now with these numbers I think its the worst contract of the year.
We'll see how it goes but I believe Landry will be a bust in CLE and will fall off the totem pole there very quickly.
Landry's lack of speed and size is one of the issues with the player. He's severely limited. Yes, he caught a lot of balls but there is more to it than catches. He can't beat one on one coverage and can't play outside. Edleman can.
FootballOutsiders' disagrees with that.
My opinion was MIA made the right call taking the draft pick and not paying him.
I felt any team taking on that contract would make a HUGE mistake. And now with these numbers I think its the worst contract of the year.
I agree with that as I said numerous times. This deal makes him severely overpaid. He's still an above average WR and at least as good as Edelman.
His career highs in yards, yards/receptions, catch %, and TDs all top Edelman's career bests in those categories. In some categories by a significant margin.
Once again they are wrong.
Quote:
FootballOutsiders' disagrees with that.
Once again they are wrong.
Can you show anything (outside of combine #s from 10 years ago) that agrees with your opinion? FO at least uses stats to form their arguments.
You realize I can just as easily post again how Edelman played in NE and actually had the opportunity to play games when they matter, right?
Jarvis Landry had nothing to do with the Miami Dolphins being a bad football team. He did his job there and he did it very well.
Does that help?
Does that help?
You can, but what about his pro day and his actual on field speed and production, that again, points to him being just as effective or more effective catching the ball than Edelman?
You aren't doing a very good job proving your point.
I don't even care at this point. He plays faster and better than the times you are quoting from 4 years ago which is 100% irrelevant now.
Does that help?
I was talking about Edelman's combine #s, but if you want to be obtuse, have at it.
You still haven't shown any on-field data that supports your claim of Edelman being a "much tougher cover".
i explained why I feel this way and talked about this production of 3 yard patterns(40+% of his catches) and behind the LOS catches.
IMO, Edelman (before his latest injury) was a better NFL player, could do more, tougher matchup, and makes a team better. He was also a far superior athlete.
You stated he was too slow to make plays outside of NE while defending the much slower player.
There were plenty with him at 4.6+ including NFL Draftscout which tries to get the best numbers on the proday.
i explained why I feel this way and talked about this production of 3 yard patterns(40+% of his catches) and behind the LOS catches.
IMO, Edelman (before his latest injury) was a better NFL player, could do more, tougher matchup, and makes a team better. He was also a far superior athlete.
You stated he was too slow to make plays outside of NE while defending the much slower player.
I'll assume you are talking to Uconn, because I never said anything about Edelman being too slow.
I'm still waiting for the stats that show he's a tougher matchup or that he can do more (FO's analysis of their 2016 stats show the opposite).
I eagerly await this season to see Landry only targeted 64 times...
Do you have a reference for your 3 yard pattern claim?
Coleman is better. Gordon is better. They'll draft Barkley. The TE is a bigger threat.
He'll struggle to even grab that 4th option title!
Coleman sucks. Another overrated speed guy who’s hurt all the time and runs shitty routes.
You think GM's say "hey, we know you have a lot of catches and look faster on the field but that damn shitty 40 time from 4 years ago must mean you are slow".
Players have bad combines all the time. Happens every year and always will. Why do i need to tell you this?
You did say that right?
Yards/target? Nope
Touchdowns/game? They both suck, but Landry scores 50% more often (on a per game basis)
First Downs/Target? Edge Landry (.39 vs .37)
First Downs/Game? Big edge Landry (3.5 vs 2.3)
So how is Edelman using this superior athleticism to destroy defenses?
You did say that right?
Personally I think Edelman would still be a solid slot WR, but an argument can easily be made than an player would look better with Tom Brady than without. We know what Landry can do with shitty QB play.
You did say that right?
Nope, wrong again. I never said he'd struggle or anything. I simply said he wouldn't be a top WR and certainly not as good as he was/is in NE. It was a response to Terps claiming Landry "Isn't close" to the player Edelman is.
And guess what? The league is full of guys who do the same with that type of usage.
I think we've taken this far enough.
We'll see how it plays out.
I have nothing against the guy other than being an overrated player who can help you in a PPR fantasy league.
I do think he'll bust in CLE.
And I do think my guy Albert Wilson will blow up in MIA at less than half the cost of Landry. And MIA picked up a draft pick too.
MIA and Landry's bank account are the winners here.
CLE will be the big loser.