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Giants Impressed with Josh Allen

Giants1975 : 4/13/2018 3:19 am
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I Prefer Rosen But...  
Jim in Tampa : 4/13/2018 8:12 am : link
If the Giants prefer Allen or Darnold (whichever one the Browns don't take) over Rosen and Mayfield...who am I to question it?

I get it when some posters prefer Barkley, Nelson, Chubb or a trade down over picking a QB. But if you believe (as I do) that the Giants need to choose their future QB at 2, then you should feel comfortable with the QB that DG, Shurmur and Shula choose, and not be concerned with all the red flags that YOU see in the QB they opt for.
RE: I Prefer Rosen But...  
firedbytheboss : 4/13/2018 8:17 am : link
In comment 13912440 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
If the Giants prefer Allen or Darnold (whichever one the Browns don't take) over Rosen and Mayfield...who am I to question it?

I get it when some posters prefer Barkley, Nelson, Chubb or a trade down over picking a QB. But if you believe (as I do) that the Giants need to choose their future QB at 2, then you should feel comfortable with the QB that DG, Shurmur and Shula choose, and not be concerned with all the red flags that YOU see in the QB they opt for.


I feel the same way. I prefer Rosen but if DG/PS fall in love with one of the others I'm all in.
What??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/13/2018 8:23 am : link
Quote:
Why is his college accuracy an issue but Eli 2 of 4 seasons had worst in Ole Miss?


Eli was a 61% accurate passer in college. One of the years he was at 48.5% and only threw 33 passes. Josh Allen is a 56% passer. He had a season where he had 67% completion - he threw 6 passes!

His other two years he was at 56%, a mark Eli never sunk to in any college season where he threw more than 33 passes.

This is the kind of BS that keeps getting brought up with Allen. "He's just as accurate as Player X!"

Except that he isn't.
If the Browns and Giants both stay put and pick QBs,  
Ivan15 : 4/13/2018 8:24 am : link
Thursday night could be totally boring. The top 4 QBs will be gone in the first 5 picks.
RE: Best arm,  
TommyWiseau : 4/13/2018 8:26 am : link
In comment 13912368 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
Highest Wonderlic
Big frame
Big hands
Hasnt been coached
Would have a HC who specializes in QBs
Can sit behind Eli for a year

Id be okay with him or Darnold at 2. You can make an aegument for both.


He apparently is doing really well on the boards and in the interviews. Teams are coming away saying "Wow". Would I be happy if we take him? Not sure, but the potential is really intriguing
RE: What??  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/13/2018 8:26 am : link
In comment 13912449 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


Why is his college accuracy an issue but Eli 2 of 4 seasons had worst in Ole Miss?



Eli was a 61% accurate passer in college. One of the years he was at 48.5% and only threw 33 passes. Josh Allen is a 56% passer. He had a season where he had 67% completion - he threw 6 passes!

His other two years he was at 56%, a mark Eli never sunk to in any college season where he threw more than 33 passes.

This is the kind of BS that keeps getting brought up with Allen. "He's just as accurate as Player X!"

Except that he isn't.



Allen on the other hand, was also his teams entire offense at least this past season. They relied on him to be the run game as much as he was needed to throw.

I think if he gets some good coaching (He's never had a true QB coach), he could get better. He certainly will not be relied on to be the entire offense in the NFL. He would get killed that way.
Allen's biggest flaw  
Miamijints : 4/13/2018 8:27 am : link
is he has 0 anticipation skills. He is a see it and throw it passer. I don't know if that can be fixed in the NFL.
Gotta trust Shurmer and Shula  
Marty866b : 4/13/2018 8:32 am : link
These guys have reputations as quarterback gurus. If they pick a quarterback will only mean that it's the guy those two want.
I’ve Posted This Before…  
Jim in Tampa : 4/13/2018 8:44 am : link
So forgive me if you’ve already read this…But a while back one of the ESPN talking heads was relating a conversation he’d had with John Gruden. Gruden (who has a rep as a QB guru) made a general comment about all QB prospects when he said…

“Show me his top 15 plays and I’ll give you that.”

Meaning of course, that he felt he could "coach up" a QB and have him play up to his Top 15 Plays potential.

Well what if our QB guru (Shurmur) feels the same way?

And what if the Giants like all the other things mentioned on this thread about Allen, such as Wonderlick score, football intelligence, big hands/big body, athleticism, superior arm, etc.

If that's the case, it certainly wouldn't shock me to see them go for Allen.
RE: Allen's biggest flaw  
AcidTest : 4/13/2018 9:06 am : link
In comment 13912455 Miamijints said:
Quote:
is he has 0 anticipation skills. He is a see it and throw it passer. I don't know if that can be fixed in the NFL.


^This. Allen doesn't throw with anticipation, which is a must in the NFL given the small throwing windows. Accuracy problems like his don't get fixed in the NFL. Way too much of a risk at #2. Stop drafting players based on "measurables." That's what got Reese into so much trouble.
People need to stop confusing..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/13/2018 9:13 am : link
not wanting Allen at #2 to saying he'll be a complete failure.

Here's the point - at #2, he has far too many red flags to justify the selection, especially in a crucial draft that the Giants are facing this year.

Grabbing him in the 3rd round like Davis Webb - awesome. Picking him at #2 and see all of his accuracy issues and inability to scan the field come to fruition - and that team who picked him is fucked.
So today it's  
SHO'NUFF : 4/13/2018 9:16 am : link
Josh Allen?
The Giants want the Browns to take Allen at #1.  
GiantFilthy : 4/13/2018 9:17 am : link
.
The JPP of QBs!!!  
TD : 4/13/2018 9:17 am : link
I want nothing to do with him..
If we actually take Allen then  
widmerseyebrow : 4/13/2018 9:21 am : link
I do not have high expectations going forward for this front office.
RE: I’ve Posted This Before…  
GoDeep13 : 4/13/2018 9:24 am : link
In comment 13912482 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
So forgive me if you’ve already read this…But a while back one of the ESPN talking heads was relating a conversation he’d had with John Gruden. Gruden (who has a rep as a QB guru) made a general comment about all QB prospects when he said…

“Show me his top 15 plays and I’ll give you that.”

Meaning of course, that he felt he could "coach up" a QB and have him play up to his Top 15 Plays potential.

Well what if our QB guru (Shurmur) feels the same way?

And what if the Giants like all the other things mentioned on this thread about Allen, such as Wonderlick score, football intelligence, big hands/big body, athleticism, superior arm, etc.

If that's the case, it certainly wouldn't shock me to see them go for Allen.
and Allen’s Top 15 plays could probably be recreated by maybe a handful of guys to have EVER played in this game. His “wow” plays are more like “OMFG HOW DID HE DO THAT!?” Plays. Kid is just built different.
RE: RE: RE: I just can't see  
bw in dc : 4/13/2018 9:33 am : link
In comment 13912431 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:


Eli played in SEC with vastly inferior talent against NFL caliber defensive players during college..


The year before Eli got drafted, his guard, Ben Claxton, got drafted in the 2003 draft. The year after Eli got drafted, his center, Chris Spencer, got drafted in the first round and his tackle, Marcus Johnson, got drafted in the second round of the 2005 draft. And his guard, Tre Stallings, got drafted, I believe, the following year. At least ten players he played with got drafted.

If you’d like, I can list all the players he played with who made the All SEC team as well.

So this endless pity party for Eli - “poor Eli never has enough talent” - is one of the most disingenuous themes ever perpetuated at BBI.
I won't believe Allen's the pick until  
Bill in UT : 4/13/2018 9:46 am : link
he's spotted wearing a Giants hoodie
Allen is a nightmare pick  
GiantsAlwaysAndForever : 4/13/2018 10:06 am : link
- He can't process the defenses, make checks at the LOS in protections, and read blitzes to get the ball out to hot read. Dan Orlovsky (former NFL QB) broke this down. This is not taught.
- He's wildly inaccurate. This is not taught.
- He bails from the pocket at the hint of any pressure. This is not taught.
- He missed the right reads ALL the time. This is bad.

In 2017, Allen had just four games where he threw for more than two touchdown passes and they came against teams with a combined 9-37 record -- Texas State, New Mexico, Central Michigan, and Gardner-Webb. If you remove those four games against absolutely inferior competition, Allen completed just 53.3 percent of his pass attempts for 877 yards with four touchdowns and six interceptions in seven games. He averaged just 125 passing yards per game against these teams. If you decide to include those four games, the most yards he passed for in any single game was 208.

How can the Giants set their franchise back into the REALLY dark ages? Drafting this guy at 2.
Falling in love..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/13/2018 10:09 am : link
with just arm strength will set many teams back.

Take away Allen's cannon and what attributes does he bring to the table that indicates he'll be successful?
RE: Falling in love..  
bw in dc : 4/13/2018 10:12 am : link
In comment 13912638 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
with just arm strength will set many teams back.

Take away Allen's cannon and what attributes does he bring to the table that indicates he'll be successful?


Mobility and athleticism.
I think this is all smoke.  
Section331 : 4/13/2018 10:13 am : link
We’ll see, but I’ll be stunned if he’s the pick at 2. Look, his issues go well beyond inaccuracy. He locks onto receivers, has trouble ID’ing blitzes, has poor pocket presence, poor footwork, and an odd inability to throw to his left. That is a lot to make up for, especially when you factor in doing it at a level far faster than he faced at WY.

And stop with the “Eli was inaccurate too” horseshit. Eli was a 60% passer at Ole Miss, playing for an undermanned team in one of 5e best conferences in the country. Josh Allen couldnt sniff Eli’s jock.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/13/2018 10:17 am : link
Quote:
Mobility and athleticism


Like Johnny Manziel's strengths???
If the Giants picked him, I'd be very worried that they just picked  
Heisenberg : 4/13/2018 10:27 am : link
a more athletic Dave Brown.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/13/2018 10:29 am : link
Giants impressed with Saquon Barkley.

Giants impressed with Sam Darnold

Giants impressed with Bradley Chubb

Giants impressed with Josh Allen

Giants impressed with Josh Rosen

Giants impressed with Baker Mayfield

Giants impressed with Quenton Nelson

Giants impressed with Minkah Fitzpatrick
RE: Eli's supporting cast at Ole Miss  
Greg from LI : 4/13/2018 10:40 am : link
Yes, they had a good OL - four players drafted in 2003-04. Claxton and Johnson weren't in the NFL for long, though, although Spencer and Stacy Andrews had solid careers. However, aside from Eli and those four linemen, only three other Rebels were drafted in 2003-06, and two of those were defenders. The third was RB Rick Razzano who was a 7th round pick that never made an NFL roster. By SEC standards, yes, Eli played with inferior talent, especially at the skill positions.
Whatever QB the Giants pick  
Chris684 : 4/13/2018 10:48 am : link
I will have to believe Pat Shurmur had heavy, heavy influence on the choice.

Therefore, Pat Shurmur's opinion > BBI's.

We shall see.
I love him too.  
mittenedman : 4/13/2018 11:00 am : link
I admit concern about accuracy - he's no Steve Young.
My big concern with him isn't the accuracy - it's the anticipation. He seems slow to pull the trigger, and it showed up again in the Senior Bowl. He does the same thing Aaron Rodgers does where he pulls the ball down and waits for something to develop. He doesn't throw when his back foot hits, which is key in the NFL.

But that's not his game. He reminds me of Ben Roethlisberger. Love the way he just slogs the ball downfield using his entire skillset. He's a competitor and I think he has what it takes to have a long career in the NFL. Great fit for "NY Giants QB".
RE: LOL..  
Les in TO : 4/13/2018 11:04 am : link
In comment 13912647 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


Mobility and athleticism



Like Johnny Manziel's strengths???
is Allen known as a big partier?
RE: LOL..  
bw in dc : 4/13/2018 11:09 am : link
In comment 13912647 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Like Johnny Manziel's strengths???


Not sure how many people said Manziel was athletic.
I have a hard time seeing him in Shurmur's offense  
AcesUp : 4/13/2018 11:10 am : link
Allen needs to be in a verticle passing game. The things he does poorly - accuracy, anticipation and timing - are the things that Shurmur asks of his QB. I understand that one of Shurmur's biggest strength as a coach is his ability to adapt with his players but there's 3 other guys on the board that fit his system perfectly.

I'd completely write him off for our pick if it weren't for two factors. One is that Gettleman is an old school guy, he may place a high value on the traditional prototype and measurables. The other is the presence of Eli. The Giants are in a unique position to groom a guy and be patient. If you think Allen's deficiencies can be coached up, and I personally have my doubts, then having Eli on the roster to bring him along slowly may be the extra nudge you need to take the gamble.
RE: I love him too.  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/13/2018 11:13 am : link
In comment 13912780 mittenedman said:
Quote:
I admit concern about accuracy - he's no Steve Young.
My big concern with him isn't the accuracy - it's the anticipation. He seems slow to pull the trigger, and it showed up again in the Senior Bowl. He does the same thing Aaron Rodgers does where he pulls the ball down and waits for something to develop. He doesn't throw when his back foot hits, which is key in the NFL.

But that's not his game. He reminds me of Ben Roethlisberger. Love the way he just slogs the ball downfield using his entire skillset. He's a competitor and I think he has what it takes to have a long career in the NFL. Great fit for "NY Giants QB".


I think the most attractive thing about him is his character/will power. They guy could have called it quite when he didn't get a D1 scholarship, and he worked hard enough to be considered a 1st rd. draft pick. Imagine how many times he must have doubted himself along the way and overcame the process.
RE: Whatever QB the Giants pick  
Jim in Tampa : 4/13/2018 11:42 am : link
In comment 13912748 Chris684 said:
Quote:
I will have to believe Pat Shurmur had heavy, heavy influence on the choice.

Therefore, Pat Shurmur's opinion > BBI's.

We shall see.


Agreed! I think that's the point most are missing. If you want a QB and your preferred QB is available when the Giants draft...and they choose a different QB, their years of experience, film study, interviews, access to medical records, etc. beats the crap out of any BBI poster, who only has access to televised games and YouTube highlights.

It doesn't mean you can't be right and they can't be wrong...but I'm on board with whatever QB the Giants choose (if they go QB at 2).
RE: RE: Eli's supporting cast at Ole Miss  
bw in dc : 4/13/2018 11:47 am : link
In comment 13912723 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Yes, they had a good OL - four players drafted in 2003-04. Claxton and Johnson weren't in the NFL for long, though, although Spencer and Stacy Andrews had solid careers. However, aside from Eli and those four linemen, only three other Rebels were drafted in 2003-06, and two of those were defenders. The third was RB Rick Razzano who was a 7th round pick that never made an NFL roster. By SEC standards, yes, Eli played with inferior talent, especially at the skill positions.


I did this fast so feel free to check my math.

Using 2002 to 2005 as the time period, because that's when Eli would have actually likely played with players who got drafted, here is are the rough estimates of SEC schools/# of players drafted:

Usual suspect dominated: UF, Georgia, Rocky Top, LSU had 20+.

Bama/17, South Carolina/13, Auburn/10, Ole Miss/10, Arkansas/10, Miss St/6, Kentucky/5, Vandy/1.

So Ole Miss was sort of clustered in the middle. And if you look at Alabama, who really wasn't Alabama from 2000 to 2004. They were ordinary at best. If you look at the players who were drafted it is a who's who of flops. It's clear they had players drafted based on school reputation. I'm not kidding, at least 15 of the 17 are laughable.

On the other hand, Rocky Top just killed it. They were a great pipeline for the NFL.
I'm concerned about the accuracy  
UberAlias : 4/13/2018 12:20 pm : link
But I don't know that I can really evaluate that effectively. If Shurmur was very confident it wasn't an issue and he could develop him, this guy would have some huge upside.
bw  
Greg from LI : 4/13/2018 12:26 pm : link
The teams ruling the roost were a bit different - Florida and Tennessee powerful, Bama and Auburn not so much - but the early 2000s SEC was still a brutal conference.

Eli wasn't playing with complete schmoes like Allen, obviously. A solid OL is a friend to any QB, and Eli definitely had that. I'd still say he was at a talent deficit with the better teams in the conference, and the fact that he led Ole Miss to some very competitive seasons anyway speaks well of him.

It just seems like Allen boosters only see his admittedly impressive physical tools, to the extent that they won't acknowledge the fact that he wasn't overly impressive even at a low level of competition, even allowing for weak talent around him. He's the ultimate boom or bust QB prospect. Very high risk, very high potential reward. Me, I'm not enough of a gambler to want him at #2.
As with everyone else  
Joey in VA : 4/13/2018 12:39 pm : link
Not named Bradley Chubb, I am torn on this prospect. I do NOT like the completion percentage, he's not a natural feel it type of passer. He's more robotic in that he's thinking out there and not seeing the way a guy like Rosen or Darnold does. They look comfortable playing QB, Allen just doesn't at times. There is plenty to like but the QBs job is to throw the football down the field accurately and he simply has not been able to do that. If we take him, cool, I get behind it because I trust Pat Shurmur and Dave G a hell of a lot more than my own eyes but I don't see it with this guy. The ball flies out effortlessly, he's mobile, he's huge, he's competitive, all great things but he's not good at passing the football right now. He's a thrower not a passer and yes he could get better and should get better but historically the deck is ridiculously stacked AGAINST him succeeding given his college numbers.
RE: Whatever QB the Giants pick  
Brown Recluse : 4/13/2018 12:45 pm : link
In comment 13912748 Chris684 said:
Quote:
I will have to believe Pat Shurmur had heavy, heavy influence on the choice.

Therefore, Pat Shurmur's opinion > BBI's.

We shall see.


Yup. Shurmur said they what they want, and they will know it when they see it. Whoever they choose is Shurmurs guy.

I am really looking forward to seeing what Shurmur does with whoever they choose going forward whether its Darnold or Rosen or Allen or Webb or someone else.
RE: As with everyone else  
bw in dc : 4/13/2018 12:49 pm : link
In comment 13912999 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Not named Bradley Chubb, I am torn on this prospect. I do NOT like the completion percentage, he's not a natural feel it type of passer. He's more robotic in that he's thinking out there and not seeing the way a guy like Rosen or Darnold does. They look comfortable playing QB, Allen just doesn't at times. There is plenty to like but the QBs job is to throw the football down the field accurately and he simply has not been able to do that. If we take him, cool, I get behind it because I trust Pat Shurmur and Dave G a hell of a lot more than my own eyes but I don't see it with this guy. The ball flies out effortlessly, he's mobile, he's huge, he's competitive, all great things but he's not good at passing the football right now. He's a thrower not a passer and yes he could get better and should get better but historically the deck is ridiculously stacked AGAINST him succeeding given his college numbers.


Yes, Allen is the biggest QB wildcard in the draft. I really like him but wouldn't take him at #2. He's 4th on the bw Big Board

1. LamJax 2. Darnold 3. Rosen 4. Allen ;)
Allen doesn't know what he is doing. He is QB body and arm  
Jimmy Googs : 4/13/2018 1:58 pm : link
with little to no QB mentality once he gets to the LOS.

5 year project...
RE: .  
dep026 : 4/13/2018 2:05 pm : link
In comment 13912686 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Giants impressed with Saquon Barkley.

Giants impressed with Sam Darnold

Giants impressed with Bradley Chubb

Giants impressed with Josh Allen

Giants impressed with Josh Rosen

Giants impressed with Baker Mayfield

Giants impressed with Quenton Nelson

Giants impressed with Minkah Fitzpatrick


Giants not impressed with arcarsenal.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 4/13/2018 2:11 pm : link
In comment 13913205 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13912686 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Giants impressed with Saquon Barkley.

Giants impressed with Sam Darnold

Giants impressed with Bradley Chubb

Giants impressed with Josh Allen

Giants impressed with Josh Rosen

Giants impressed with Baker Mayfield

Giants impressed with Quenton Nelson

Giants impressed with Minkah Fitzpatrick



Giants not impressed with arcarsenal.


Smokescreen.
YAWWWWWWWN!!!  
.McL. : 4/13/2018 2:30 pm : link
The Giants are impressed with every player in this draft...
The Giants are going to trade down with every team in this draft...
The Giants are going to trade up in this draft in every round...
The giants are going to trade all their starters including OBJ so they can make as many picks as possible...

...

Nobody has a clue what the Giants are thinking... Nor should they.
Allen shoulder was smashed but obviously  
Bluesbreaker : 4/13/2018 3:42 pm : link
didn't hamper his arm strength thats all well and good but
you don't need a cannon of an arm to secure a Lombardi .
Trying to think who won with the best arm maybe Rogers and
Elway had a hell of a good arm . Brady above average but not a cannon nor did Eli Breese Wilson ect it's more about a very good defense and getting hot at the right time .
The only QB at this point is Darnold even with the fumbling issues , I hope MAyfield pans out but too boom or bust for my liking . Rosen maybe Jeff George part two .that said I will stick with Barkley or a slight trade down got to get a blue chip talent
RE: RE: As with everyone else  
Joey in VA : 4/13/2018 3:45 pm : link
In comment 13913018 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13912999 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


Not named Bradley Chubb, I am torn on this prospect. I do NOT like the completion percentage, he's not a natural feel it type of passer. He's more robotic in that he's thinking out there and not seeing the way a guy like Rosen or Darnold does. They look comfortable playing QB, Allen just doesn't at times. There is plenty to like but the QBs job is to throw the football down the field accurately and he simply has not been able to do that. If we take him, cool, I get behind it because I trust Pat Shurmur and Dave G a hell of a lot more than my own eyes but I don't see it with this guy. The ball flies out effortlessly, he's mobile, he's huge, he's competitive, all great things but he's not good at passing the football right now. He's a thrower not a passer and yes he could get better and should get better but historically the deck is ridiculously stacked AGAINST him succeeding given his college numbers.



Yes, Allen is the biggest QB wildcard in the draft. I really like him but wouldn't take him at #2. He's 4th on the bw Big Board

1. LamJax 2. Darnold 3. Rosen 4. Allen ;)
LamJax sounds like a weird Catholic cereal designed for Easter time.
RE: RE: As with everyone else  
arcarsenal : 4/13/2018 4:08 pm : link
In comment 13913018 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13912999 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


Not named Bradley Chubb, I am torn on this prospect. I do NOT like the completion percentage, he's not a natural feel it type of passer. He's more robotic in that he's thinking out there and not seeing the way a guy like Rosen or Darnold does. They look comfortable playing QB, Allen just doesn't at times. There is plenty to like but the QBs job is to throw the football down the field accurately and he simply has not been able to do that. If we take him, cool, I get behind it because I trust Pat Shurmur and Dave G a hell of a lot more than my own eyes but I don't see it with this guy. The ball flies out effortlessly, he's mobile, he's huge, he's competitive, all great things but he's not good at passing the football right now. He's a thrower not a passer and yes he could get better and should get better but historically the deck is ridiculously stacked AGAINST him succeeding given his college numbers.



Yes, Allen is the biggest QB wildcard in the draft. I really like him but wouldn't take him at #2. He's 4th on the bw Big Board

1. LamJax 2. Darnold 3. Rosen 4. Allen ;)


b-dubs, you really have LJax as your top QB or was this sarcasm?

I know you liked him - I like him too, but definitely not ahead of those guys.
RE: RE: RE: As with everyone else  
bw in dc : 4/13/2018 5:54 pm : link
In comment 13913367 arcarsenal said:
Quote:


b-dubs, you really have LJax as your top QB or was this sarcasm?

I know you liked him - I like him too, but definitely not ahead of those guys.


I really think I'm all in. His performances in big games vis-a-vis the rest of his draft peers is just so much better.

Better thrower than Rose? NFW. Better arm than Allen? NFW?

But the best all-around performer with his arm and legs? It's not even close - this guy is a tremendous play-maker. And I really think he's got a great chance to be great. I just don't know how long it's going to take. But I get the sense he's just going to make plays and find a way.
RE: RE: RE: RE: As with everyone else  
arcarsenal : 4/13/2018 6:04 pm : link
In comment 13913479 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13913367 arcarsenal said:


Quote:




b-dubs, you really have LJax as your top QB or was this sarcasm?

I know you liked him - I like him too, but definitely not ahead of those guys.



I really think I'm all in. His performances in big games vis-a-vis the rest of his draft peers is just so much better.

Better thrower than Rose? NFW. Better arm than Allen? NFW?

But the best all-around performer with his arm and legs? It's not even close - this guy is a tremendous play-maker. And I really think he's got a great chance to be great. I just don't know how long it's going to take. But I get the sense he's just going to make plays and find a way.


Interesting.

I have a hard time with him - I made no secret around here that I really liked this player and would be willing to go non-QB @ 2 and then try to get back up a few spots to take him.

But a few things since have given me some pause.

I don't put too much stock in combine stuff - but he didn't alleviate any of my concerns throwing outside the hashes. He was sailing some throws, not really getting the right drive into them, etc. I think he's going to struggle throwing several routes (especially deep outs or corner posts)

My other worry now is that supposedly his mother his his agent and he was very difficult to even get in touch with. I don't know how smart he is or isn't - but I do know that these aren't things I want to hear about a player before a draft.

That said - I think if you build an offense around this dude that utilizes RPO concepts and allow him to do the things he does best, he can be dynamite.

He was durable in college - but if he's not more careful in the pros that won't last. The wiry frame is a little concerning. If he gets decleated by an NFL linebacker, he's probably going to get hurt.

Arm strength doesn't concern me. He can flick it 40+ yards with relative ease - but he's so much better throwing down the middle of the field. Deep posts, crossing routes, etc. He can handle that stuff. Back shoulders, timing routes, outs, etc. are things I wouldn't be too comfortable asking him to do.

I'm very, very interested to see how his pro career unfolds. If nothing else, he's probably going to be exciting.
I’m a Jackson guy  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/13/2018 6:08 pm : link
But there’s no chance he’s drafted here so I haven’t gotten attached. He’s a better passer and QB brain than people seem willing to credit him. Needs footwork coaching.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: As with everyone else  
bw in dc : 4/13/2018 6:38 pm : link
In comment 13913486 arcarsenal said:
Quote:


Interesting.

I have a hard time with him - I made no secret around here that I really liked this player and would be willing to go non-QB @ 2 and then try to get back up a few spots to take him.

But a few things since have given me some pause.

I don't put too much stock in combine stuff - but he didn't alleviate any of my concerns throwing outside the hashes. He was sailing some throws, not really getting the right drive into them, etc. I think he's going to struggle throwing several routes (especially deep outs or corner posts)

My other worry now is that supposedly his mother his his agent and he was very difficult to even get in touch with. I don't know how smart he is or isn't - but I do know that these aren't things I want to hear about a player before a draft.

That said - I think if you build an offense around this dude that utilizes RPO concepts and allow him to do the things he does best, he can be dynamite.

He was durable in college - but if he's not more careful in the pros that won't last. The wiry frame is a little concerning. If he gets decleated by an NFL linebacker, he's probably going to get hurt.

Arm strength doesn't concern me. He can flick it 40+ yards with relative ease - but he's so much better throwing down the middle of the field. Deep posts, crossing routes, etc. He can handle that stuff. Back shoulders, timing routes, outs, etc. are things I wouldn't be too comfortable asking him to do.

I'm very, very interested to see how his pro career unfolds. If nothing else, he's probably going to be exciting.


At the Combine, he didn't put the pedal to the metal on his throws - true. But I don't think that was a lack of ability; it was more of a fear of failure. He was too measured. At this personal work out, he turned it up and looked much better. I thought he and Darnold had the best workouts of the top guys.

I was initially bothered by the mom move, too. But I'm taking a wait and see more approach for now.

The guy is Gumby on the field. Go watch his games against Clemson and Florida St, two programs with a lot of pro talent. He either outruns a hit, bounces off a hit, or simply get out of bounds or down. He has very good instincts on the move. So I'm thinking those instincts will convey.

Seriously, name another QB in this draft who did more in big games...
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