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Why the New York Giants Should nbot draft a quaterback at 2

GiantsFaninAZ : 4/13/2018 10:11 am
Interesting read...I personally like Barkley or Chubb
Check it out - ( New Window )
i'm nbot in agreement with Pat  
V.I.G. : 4/13/2018 10:38 am : link
her argument boils down to drafting a QB high is not a certainty so you might as well roll the dice on an ever lower probability that webb or one of the later round QBs becomes a franchise? of this list, there's only a couple that i'd want to be my QB for the next 10 years.

Quote:
Other second- and third-day quarterbacks who have achieved franchise quarterback status and who have taken their respective teams to the playoffs at least once include Brett Favre (Packers via Atlanta, Round 2, No. 33 overall, 1991); Andy Dalton (Bengals, Round 2, No. 35 overall, 2011); Derek Carr (Raiders, Round 2, No, 36 overall, 2014); Drew Brees (Saints via San Diego, Round 2, No. 32 overall, 2001); Russell Wilson (Seahawks, Round 3, No. 75 overall, 2012); Dak Prescott (Dallas, Round 4, No 135 overall, 2016); and Kirk Cousins (Minnesota via Washington, Round 4, No. 102 overall, 2012);


HARD pass
Couldnít disagree more with this article.  
Toastt34 : 4/13/2018 10:43 am : link
We shouldnít draft a QB because you can find guys like Rodgers and Flacco down the line when you donít have a Top 5 pick, Eli is the starter in 2018, and the Giants already have Davis Webb?? Come on already.

Article makes sense...  
the mike : 4/13/2018 11:06 am : link
Way too much preoccupation with searching for and hoping to find the perfect quarterback -- and massive opportunity cost both in terms of talent neglected elsewhere and team resentment at the singular commitment to the "anointed one" without meritocratic competition... Oh, and by the way, an abysmally low probability of success...

If Foles, Dilfer, Hostetler and Johnson can win super bowls, so can Davis Webb. Either take Saquon Barkley or trade the pick with Denver or Buffalo on draft day for a major haul...
Darnold, Allen, Rosen,Mayfield  
joeinpa : 4/13/2018 11:15 am : link
Too much value to pass on the rare opp if picking #2.

Plus Eli will be 38 years old, and Webb is an unknown.

I d rather have a highly picked quarterback plus Webb tocomple when Eli is done.

Putting all eggs in Webb basket, no thanks.
I hate the saying  
dep026 : 4/13/2018 11:18 am : link
You could find one in later rounds...

So I guess it would have been ok to pass on Beckham for mid rounders like Sinorice moss, Rueben randle, and Ramses Braden?

I hate when people donít see the opposite end of the spectrum. You know you could actually draft a lot worse too.
I hate the way these QBs get discussed in a vacuum.  
Motley Two : 4/13/2018 11:28 am : link
Just think about how much easier it is to predict successful future careers for these guys once you find out which team drafted them.

Are they gonna start right away, sit for a while, sit behind who? Are there weapons on offense? Solid offensive line? Run game? How's the defense?

All of these guys were studs in college and all of the guys at every other position were studs in college. You're gonna have a bunch of UDFA get invites, because they were studs in college.
RE: Article makes sense...  
NYSports1 : 4/13/2018 11:51 am : link
In comment 13912794 the mike said:
Quote:
Way too much preoccupation with searching for and hoping to find the perfect quarterback -- and massive opportunity cost both in terms of talent neglected elsewhere and team resentment at the singular commitment to the "anointed one" without meritocratic competition... Oh, and by the way, an abysmally low probability of success...

If Foles, Dilfer, Hostetler and Johnson can win super bowls, so can Davis Webb. Either take Saquon Barkley or trade the pick with Denver or Buffalo on draft day for a major haul...


WOW....
RE: I hate the saying  
Strahan91 : 4/13/2018 12:21 pm : link
In comment 13912836 dep026 said:
Quote:
You could find one in later rounds...

So I guess it would have been ok to pass on Beckham for mid rounders like Sinorice moss, Rueben randle, and Ramses Braden?

I hate when people donít see the opposite end of the spectrum. You know you could actually draft a lot worse too.


^This. To say that drafting a quarterback in the first round doesn't mean they're a lock to be a pro bowler is true of any position on the football field. Hence why she didn't use any of the those numbers to back up her case. Barkley could bust just like Reggie Bush and Trent Richardson did. Nelson could bust just like Robert Gallery and Greg Robinson did. Chubb could bust just like Dion Jordan and Vernon Gholston did (or Chris Long for that matter, #2 overall pick who's never made a pro bowl).

There are no certainties in the draft. It's educated projecting and even the best GM's get it wrong 50% or less of the time.
Giants have had better luck trading for a starting QB than drafting  
Ivan15 : 4/13/2018 12:29 pm : link
one outside the first round, really top of the first round.
There  
AcidTest : 4/13/2018 12:46 pm : link
are many QBs taken in the top 10 who busted, and a few taken in the second and third rounds who are terrific, along with sixth round pick Brady. But most of the better QBs are taken in the top 10 or 15 picks.

I just don't think any QB this year is worth the #2 pick, except maybe Darnold, and he has bad mechanics.
I heard her comments..  
firedbytheboss : 4/13/2018 12:53 pm : link
on her podcast. Terrible argument and frankly I think she is ignorant. The Giants are presented with the rare opportunity to get a prized qb prospect, they need to take it. The qb is by far the most important and valuable position in the nfl, maybe all of sports. If they pass here, they are fools.
RE: I heard her comments..  
Mike in NY : 4/13/2018 12:55 pm : link
In comment 13913029 firedbytheboss said:
Quote:
on her podcast. Terrible argument and frankly I think she is ignorant. The Giants are presented with the rare opportunity to get a prized qb prospect, they need to take it. The qb is by far the most important and valuable position in the nfl, maybe all of sports. If they pass here, they are fools.


Cincy looked quite smart for not passing on Akili Smith! :)
RE: There  
Mike in NY : 4/13/2018 12:56 pm : link
In comment 13913011 AcidTest said:
Quote:
are many QBs taken in the top 10 who busted, and a few taken in the second and third rounds who are terrific, along with sixth round pick Brady. But most of the better QBs are taken in the top 10 or 15 picks.

I just don't think any QB this year is worth the #2 pick, except maybe Darnold, and he has bad mechanics.


My feelings exactly
Weak contrived logic  
V.I.G. : 4/13/2018 1:54 pm : link
Formulated by a journalist to maintain favorable player access
RE: RE: There  
lax counsel : 4/13/2018 1:54 pm : link
In comment 13913041 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13913011 AcidTest said:


Quote:


are many QBs taken in the top 10 who busted, and a few taken in the second and third rounds who are terrific, along with sixth round pick Brady. But most of the better QBs are taken in the top 10 or 15 picks.

I just don't think any QB this year is worth the #2 pick, except maybe Darnold, and he has bad mechanics.



My feelings exactly


I understand your point. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but what years have you thought there to be a qb worth the number 2 pick? What about next year, which is projected to be lacking in high end talent at the position?
RE: RE: RE: There  
Mike in NY : 4/13/2018 2:10 pm : link
In comment 13913181 lax counsel said:
Quote:
In comment 13913041 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 13913011 AcidTest said:


Quote:


are many QBs taken in the top 10 who busted, and a few taken in the second and third rounds who are terrific, along with sixth round pick Brady. But most of the better QBs are taken in the top 10 or 15 picks.

I just don't think any QB this year is worth the #2 pick, except maybe Darnold, and he has bad mechanics.



My feelings exactly



I understand your point. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but what years have you thought there to be a qb worth the number 2 pick? What about next year, which is projected to be lacking in high end talent at the position?


Going back to 2004: 2016, 2015 (I thought Mariota would end up being better than he has been), 2012 (see 2015 but change Mariota to RGIII), 2008 (I liked Matt Ryan - I selected him in BBI Mock Draft IIRC), 2005 (I had Rodgers above Smith), 2004 (I did not think Roethlisberger was that far off Manning to make up for losing picks in a trade up). It is still too early to discuss 2019. Prospects end up surprising both good and bad.
Leading up to the draft  
HoodieGelo : 4/13/2018 2:10 pm : link
everything contradicts everything. I think ok, I want a QB because we need to invest in the future and like DG said, you can never have too many good players at a position. Then I think, well wait we have Davis Webb? Hardest-working guy you can find and I have really believe in and have faith in him. So then I move to Barkley. Then I think, shit. Barkley is good but what about the other RB's in this deep class? It's not like there is some crazy drop off in talent. That makes me move to Chubb but oh wait, he may not be as effective in a 3-4! Plus you can possibly get him in different trade-down situations. Then I go to Nelson but come on, a guard THAT HIGH?! So it must be a trade down! Trade down, get Nelson, Chubb, or someone like Edmunds in the middle of the round as well as a bunch of other picks. Then I say, WAIT A MINUTE! We have the 2nd pick in the damn draft. I WANT A SUPERSTAR. So I go back to wanting a QB and then the whole process repeats.

This will continue until April 26th and I can't wait for that day to come for the sake of my mentality.
Statistics are clear  
Giant John : 4/13/2018 3:01 pm : link
The higher drafted QBís have done better in playoffs and Super Bowl over time. I recently read a pretty good analysis here in the corner forum which is available to any of you that choose to read it.
Rodgers and Brady are an anomaly. Those looking to replicate those players will have a very long wait.
RE: Statistics are clear  
the mike : 4/13/2018 3:38 pm : link
In comment 13913282 Giant John said:
Quote:
The higher drafted QBís have done better in playoffs and Super Bowl over time. I recently read a pretty good analysis here in the corner forum which is available to any of you that choose to read it.
Rodgers and Brady are an anomaly. Those looking to replicate those players will have a very long wait.



Statistics could not be less clear. Only 13 of the 33 Super Bowl winning quarterbacks were drafted in the top ten...

And just looking at the comparative grades of this year's class versus prior year's classes (see link below), Darnold has the highest grade of 94 among 2018 prospects, well below Andrew Luck (99) and Matt Ryan (98). But Darnold's grade is also below that of Sam Bradford, Mark Sanchez and Blaine Gabbert... Three quarterbacks that are the very definition of quarterback hell.

The only quarterback on this entire list from the last decade who has won a super bowl was Joe Flacco, who was not drafted in the top ten but 18th in 2008.
How 2018 QBs grade vs. first-rounders from past decade - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Statistics are clear  
Mike in NY : 4/13/2018 3:43 pm : link
In comment 13913321 the mike said:
Quote:
In comment 13913282 Giant John said:


Quote:


The higher drafted QBís have done better in playoffs and Super Bowl over time. I recently read a pretty good analysis here in the corner forum which is available to any of you that choose to read it.
Rodgers and Brady are an anomaly. Those looking to replicate those players will have a very long wait.




Statistics could not be less clear. Only 13 of the 33 Super Bowl winning quarterbacks were drafted in the top ten...

And just looking at the comparative grades of this year's class versus prior year's classes (see link below), Darnold has the highest grade of 94 among 2018 prospects, well below Andrew Luck (99) and Matt Ryan (98). But Darnold's grade is also below that of Sam Bradford, Mark Sanchez and Blaine Gabbert... Three quarterbacks that are the very definition of quarterback hell.

The only quarterback on this entire list from the last decade who has won a super bowl was Joe Flacco, who was not drafted in the top ten but 18th in 2008. How 2018 QBs grade vs. first-rounders from past decade - ( New Window )


That is 13 of ~500 versus 20 of ~12,000
Too dumb to take serioulsy  
giantstock : 4/13/2018 4:31 pm : link
I started laughing at the "only 57.6%." And ofc some of those drafted thing never had a chance to amount to anything due to poor coaching and lousy ownership.
RE: I heard her comments..  
Optimus-NY : 4/14/2018 12:46 am : link
In comment 13913029 firedbytheboss said:
Quote:
on her podcast. Terrible argument and frankly I think she is ignorant. The Giants are presented with the rare opportunity to get a prized qb prospect, they need to take it. The qb is by far the most important and valuable position in the nfl, maybe all of sports. If they pass here, they are fools.


I agree.
RE: RE: RE: Statistics are clear  
the mike : 4/14/2018 9:45 am : link
In comment 13913326 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13913321 the mike said:


Quote:


In comment 13913282 Giant John said:


Quote:


The higher drafted QBís have done better in playoffs and Super Bowl over time. I recently read a pretty good analysis here in the corner forum which is available to any of you that choose to read it.
Rodgers and Brady are an anomaly. Those looking to replicate those players will have a very long wait.




Statistics could not be less clear. Only 13 of the 33 Super Bowl winning quarterbacks were drafted in the top ten...

And just looking at the comparative grades of this year's class versus prior year's classes (see link below), Darnold has the highest grade of 94 among 2018 prospects, well below Andrew Luck (99) and Matt Ryan (98). But Darnold's grade is also below that of Sam Bradford, Mark Sanchez and Blaine Gabbert... Three quarterbacks that are the very definition of quarterback hell.

The only quarterback on this entire list from the last decade who has won a super bowl was Joe Flacco, who was not drafted in the top ten but 18th in 2008. How 2018 QBs grade vs. first-rounders from past decade - ( New Window )



That is 13 of ~500 versus 20 of ~12,000


Fair enough Mike, but let's not celebrate 2.5%... I am simply making the point that it is highly unlikely that any quarterback selected will be successful and pinning the objectives of the entire franchise on that probability is almost always a mistake. Even Colts fans have to still feel somewhat nauseous for betting on Andrew Luck, undoubtedly the best quarterback selected in the draft in the 21st century, only to see Peyton Manning go to two super bowls and win his second with the Broncos within three years of drafting Luck. And after Luck's press conference this week, it seems doubtful that Luck will ever win a super bowl...

Picking a quarterback is an absolute crap shoot - nothing more.
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