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NFT: So this phrase IS a bit charged... OKC announcer suspended

mattlawson : 4/13/2018 4:29 pm
"Oklahoma City TV announcer Brian Davis has been suspended by the team for Game 1 of the Thunderís first-round series against the Jazz after he used the phrase, ďout of his cotton-pickiní mindĒ to describe Russell Westbrook in the teamís final regular-season game."

I while back I posted about an ad that was running here in the Central VA area on talk radio with the use of the phrase 'cotton-pickiní but it did not come across as poorly as the OKC announcer's choice of words did. That phrase is pretty loaded for me, I haven't heard it used in quite a long time, its no longer parlance if you will - even in the south. But what say you?

Is this an overreaction or are is the suspension correct here?
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sticks and stones hell Howard Cosell called  
gtt350 : 4/13/2018 6:40 pm : link
a Redskin running back a little monkey
RE: RE: RE: If the phrase has any negative racial connotation...  
gtt350 : 4/13/2018 6:42 pm : link
In comment 13913433 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13913423 steve in ky said:


Quote:


I believe the "monkey" comment was Howard Cosell. Jimmy the Greek though did really say some inexcusable things IMO.



a black History professor from Harvard confirmed that what Jimmmy said was absolutely true



Yes, "Look at that little monkey" was Cosell. Jimmy the Greek said that black players were more athletic because of selective breeding during slavery.
So, this was the question I was asking this morning..  
Bill L : 4/13/2018 7:10 pm : link
In this case, there was clearly no malice, prejudice, or ill intent. So, his punishment was not because of him but because a recipient (or recipients) was offended. So, the offended person takes precedence over the lack of intention to do harm and the burden is on the speaker to be aware that someone might be offended and refrain from that behavior.

The comparison this morning was the oft-repeated statement that military people or military supporters, or whoever shouldnít be offended by kneeling for the National Anthem because the kneelers state that their intention is not to disparage or disrespect the military.

Seems like the same thing to me. How do you reconcile the two examples?
While I think that people have to be more  
chopperhatch : 4/13/2018 7:15 pm : link
Wary about what they say if for no other reason than to avoid a PR/perception nightmare, I think the current knee jerk reaction to suspend someone is wrong. "Cotton pickin mind" is an expression (tho I dont know how it originated and might be missing something) that Ive heard fairly often. It would be far more appropriate to ask the announcer to clarify his intent via a public statement with an apology to those offended before dropping the hammer of a SUSPENSION. Tho maybe he was asked to and refused. Unless the latter happened I think a suspension is heavy.

McNair, while similar in terms of what he said is a known expression, said "inmates running the prison" instead of "asylum."
pic of said announcer.  
madgiantscow009 : 4/13/2018 7:17 pm : link


he also said he was rootin' tootin'
H A T E C R I M E  
Sarcastic Sam : 4/13/2018 7:18 pm : link
It's like real crime, but worse.
RE: So, this was the question I was asking this morning..  
bw in dc : 4/13/2018 7:20 pm : link
In comment 13913520 Bill L said:
Quote:
In this case, there was clearly no malice, prejudice, or ill intent. So, his punishment was not because of him but because a recipient (or recipients) was offended. So, the offended person takes precedence over the lack of intention to do harm and the burden is on the speaker to be aware that someone might be offended and refrain from that behavior.


I know Iím not answering your question but your last sentence, while likely true in this day and age, is almost impossible to manage to. It eliminates spontaneity and honesty and basically reduces communication to a safety zone of pre-determined safe phrases.
RE: So, this was the question I was asking this morning..  
Motley Two : 4/13/2018 7:24 pm : link
In comment 13913520 Bill L said:
Quote:
In this case, there was clearly no malice, prejudice, or ill intent. So, his punishment was not because of him but because a recipient (or recipients) was offended. So, the offended person takes precedence over the lack of intention to do harm and the burden is on the speaker to be aware that someone might be offended and refrain from that behavior.

The comparison this morning was the oft-repeated statement that military people or military supporters, or whoever shouldnít be offended by kneeling for the National Anthem because the kneelers state that their intention is not to disparage or disrespect the military.

Seems like the same thing to me. How do you reconcile the two examples?


You take words for what they are. Tools to communicate thoughts and ideas. If the thought being conveyed is ugly and the intent is to disparage, by all means be offended.
If somebody builds a cross to burn on somebody's lawn, I'm not gonna get upset at wood, hammer nails & gasoline, but plenty of people certainly do exactly that with words and symbols.
RE: RE: So, this was the question I was asking this morning..  
Bill L : 4/13/2018 7:25 pm : link
In comment 13913529 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13913520 Bill L said:


Quote:


In this case, there was clearly no malice, prejudice, or ill intent. So, his punishment was not because of him but because a recipient (or recipients) was offended. So, the offended person takes precedence over the lack of intention to do harm and the burden is on the speaker to be aware that someone might be offended and refrain from that behavior.




I know Iím not answering your question but your last sentence, while likely true in this day and age, is almost impossible to manage to. It eliminates spontaneity and honesty and basically reduces communication to a safety zone of pre-determined safe phrases.
and Iím pretty sure that the n for the people who need to be offended for you to be pu I shed for your words is one.
Punished  
Bill L : 4/13/2018 7:26 pm : link
.
RE: H A T E C R I M E  
madgiantscow009 : 4/13/2018 7:27 pm : link
In comment 13913528 Sarcastic Sam said:
Quote:
It's like real crime, but worse.


1:33
art class. - ( New Window )
RE: H A T E C R I M E  
bradshaw44 : 4/13/2018 7:30 pm : link
In comment 13913528 Sarcastic Sam said:
Quote:
It's like real crime, but worse.


Hahaha
I'm from  
lugnut : 4/13/2018 7:52 pm : link
the state that started the Civil War and I didn't associate "cotton pickin'" with slavery and negro field hands or whatever until it occurred to me a few years ago (I'm 52) -- believe it or not. I STILL say it on occasion. To me it just means crazy, but now, after my epiphany, no, I would not say it to a black person.

And maybe I'm out of my cotton pickin' mind, but I don't see what's so offensive about that one thing Jimmy the Greek said. Do many people think black people are GENERALLY a little more athletically gifted? (About 12% of the U.S. population, but 75%-80% of the NFL and NBA population - just sayin'.) There WAS at least some careful/selective "breeding" back during slavery -- seems like a neutral, (somewhat) scientific explanation to me. Now, if he'd said blacks are better athletes but it's "balanced" by their lower intelligence -- THAT's horrific and racist.
Hope  
lugnut : 4/13/2018 7:53 pm : link
I didn't just get myself banned.
RE: I'm from  
Sarcastic Sam : 4/13/2018 7:57 pm : link
In comment 13913561 lugnut said:
Quote:
the state that started the Civil War and I didn't associate "cotton pickin'" with slavery and negro field hands or whatever until it occurred to me a few years ago (I'm 52) -- believe it or not. I STILL say it on occasion. To me it just means crazy, but now, after my epiphany, no, I would not say it to a black person.

And maybe I'm out of my cotton pickin' mind, but I don't see what's so offensive about that one thing Jimmy the Greek said. Do many people think black people are GENERALLY a little more athletically gifted? (About 12% of the U.S. population, but 75%-80% of the NFL and NBA population - just sayin'.) There WAS at least some careful/selective "breeding" back during slavery -- seems like a neutral, (somewhat) scientific explanation to me. Now, if he'd said blacks are better athletes but it's "balanced" by their lower intelligence -- THAT's horrific and racist.


Do many people think Asian people are GENERALLY a little more academically gifted?
FWIW  
Sarcastic Sam : 4/13/2018 7:57 pm : link
I *AM* trying to get myself banned... and I have for the last 4 years.
RE: RE: I'm from  
Bill L : 4/13/2018 8:02 pm : link
In comment 13913565 Sarcastic Sam said:
Quote:
In comment 13913561 lugnut said:


Quote:


the state that started the Civil War and I didn't associate "cotton pickin'" with slavery and negro field hands or whatever until it occurred to me a few years ago (I'm 52) -- believe it or not. I STILL say it on occasion. To me it just means crazy, but now, after my epiphany, no, I would not say it to a black person.

And maybe I'm out of my cotton pickin' mind, but I don't see what's so offensive about that one thing Jimmy the Greek said. Do many people think black people are GENERALLY a little more athletically gifted? (About 12% of the U.S. population, but 75%-80% of the NFL and NBA population - just sayin'.) There WAS at least some careful/selective "breeding" back during slavery -- seems like a neutral, (somewhat) scientific explanation to me. Now, if he'd said blacks are better athletes but it's "balanced" by their lower intelligence -- THAT's horrific and racist.



Do many people think Asian people are GENERALLY a little more academically gifted?
thats fucking racist!

Weíre universally more academically gifted.
Intrinsically, even  
Bill L : 4/13/2018 8:03 pm : link
.
But we canít drive for shit  
Bill L : 4/13/2018 8:03 pm : link
.
RE: But we canít drive for shit  
Sarcastic Sam : 4/13/2018 8:09 pm : link
In comment 13913572 Bill L said:
Quote:
.


Or.... dance....

I think itís a little bit...  
bigbluehoya : 4/13/2018 8:11 pm : link
naive, bordering on ignorant, of the broadcaster not to be aware that the phrase could be problematic. Now he knows.

I donít like to see people drawn and quartered for these things (first time offense, plausible deniability, etc), but a two-minute minor isnít an awful punishment.
RE: pic of said announcer.  
Les in TO : 4/13/2018 9:01 pm : link
In comment 13913527 madgiantscow009 said:
Quote:


he also said he was rootin' tootin'
he should be banned an extra game for mocking people with irritable bowel syndrome!
RE: RE: pic of said announcer.  
madgiantscow009 : 4/13/2018 9:08 pm : link
In comment 13913610 Les in TO said:
Quote:
In comment 13913527 madgiantscow009 said:


Quote:




he also said he was rootin' tootin'

he should be banned an extra game for mocking people with irritable bowel syndrome!


I am ashamed and embarrassed I even typed it and sincerely apologize to those with IBS. I also apologize if IBS is somehow offensive to the black community--if there is an acronym that was or will be offensive in the future.
I've heard it used without racial connotations. I think he should be  
Ira : 4/13/2018 9:18 pm : link
given a chance to explain himself. The suspension seems excessive to me.
RE: When I was a kid that was a generic phrase, like you're crazy  
JOrthman : 4/13/2018 10:04 pm : link
In comment 13913400 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
I think its way overdone.


This...While I haven't heard it in years, it was a common phrase growing up.
I wonder if he has said that Westbrook was out of his ever-loviní mind  
Bill L : 4/13/2018 10:43 pm : link
If hookers and politicians would be offended?
I think it comes down to whether  
Jay in Toronto : 4/13/2018 10:53 pm : link
He knew of the association.

I'm incredulous when people say "He jewed me down" and even more incredulous when they have no idea of what they really said when I explain the derivation.

But I get it cause I used to use 'gipped' till someone explained the derivation to me.
As usual I agree with  
section125 : 4/13/2018 10:56 pm : link
T-Bone. I never thought of it as a racially charged statement. If T-Bone doesn't think it was a big deal, then I will defer to his judgement.
RE: RE: I think people can get offended for that  
ThatLimerickGuy : 4/13/2018 10:56 pm : link
In comment 13913413 T-Bone said:
Quote:
In comment 13913401 allstarjim said:


Quote:


The phrase's history is steeped in racism, however, as with many words and phrases, people forget and the phrase became something other than it's original usage.

I think people should look more at intent. I'm quite confident that the announcer either didn't know the racist undertones of the phrase, much less intend it to be racist, as most people don't, even though they've probably heard it before.

I also didn't take exception to Bob McNair's comment about the "inmates running the asylum." It's a common phrase, and nobody thinks that the person saying it is actually thinking of the people referenced as inmates or crazy. It simply means that the subordinates are running the show when that shouldn't be the case, and control of the operation is lost.

It's intent. In neither case should it be assumed that the phrases were racist, as those phrases have become somewhat common idioms that are not typically used in racist ways.

But it goes back to the fact that everybody is hypersensitive these days.



I disagree about McNair only because I've heard rumor of racist things he's said and done in his past. So he allegedly has a history of exhibiting racist behavior in his past... or so I've heard/read/seen.

But this is ridiculous and I agree intent should definitely be taken into account as I'm pretty sure the announcer wouldn't go to the 'racist' angle in the middle of a basketball game when speaking about a black player on purpose. I'm sorry but even a 1 game suspension to me is too much... I personally might not have even made him apologize (but if he wanted to I'd understand).


Thank you for being a voice of reason
I think it comes down to whether  
Jay in Toronto : 4/13/2018 11:05 pm : link
He knew of the association.

I'm incredulous when people say "He jewed me down" and even more incredulous when they have no idea of what they really said when I explain the derivation.

But I get it cause I used to use 'gipped' till someone explained the derivation to me.
Really good ESPN piece on Al Campanis  
Lurts : 4/13/2018 11:19 pm : link
Jackie Robinson's roommate in Montreal ands, later, Dodger exec and shamed speaker of unfortunate phrases.


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This was  
mattyblue : 4/13/2018 11:24 pm : link
being discussed at my job today and every person regardless of race did not think it seemed racist. I abstained because I find it easier to not speak or have an opinion on anything to avoid offending someone.
"Fish are jumping and cotton is getting high?"  
GiantsUA : 4/14/2018 7:17 am : link
I thought this expression was regularly used south of the Mason/Dixon line.

Offensive? I don't know.

How about "in high cotton" or "make hay while the sun shines"
RE: RE: When I was a kid that was a generic phrase, like you're crazy  
BMac : 4/14/2018 7:36 am : link
In comment 13913414 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 13913400 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


I think its way overdone.



It was more common when I was a kid also. I think I remember it being used on Bugs Bunny as well. Back then I kind of took it as a redneck kind of way of someone not using the word d*mn and that some people used as a substitute phrasing.


It has its genesis in the 1940s, and refers to Southerners in general. It may or may not have evolved to have a more specific target. For me when growing up, it was a generic term, without discernible racial overtones.
overreaction  
bc4life : 4/14/2018 8:47 am : link
heard that phrase sonce I was a little guy, never had racial overtones, never hear it used in that manner.

reacting to something like this, dilutes the outrage over real slights and slurs.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/14/2018 8:51 am : link
Never thought of it in terms of race.
Not to be racist  
XBRONX : 4/14/2018 11:02 am : link
but how come every year the national spelling bee is won by Indian children.
The pussyfication of America  
RottenApple : 4/14/2018 11:36 am : link
Continues.
Now how can they expect someone to watch basketball  
ghost718 : 4/14/2018 11:42 am : link
and hear something like that.

I'd have to put on the World Darts Championship
I don't see malicious intent there  
eclipz928 : 4/14/2018 11:52 am : link
but there's an infinite number of other superlatives that the announcer could have used to describe a black NBA player that doesn't hark back to slavery.

In his line of work, and on that level, every word he says does matter and there has to always be a conscious effort to communicate in a way that takes in account how a large audience will receive it.

The apology he gave was an appropriate fix in this situation. The one game suspension seems to be just an added touch by the network to make sure they don't short-change the issue.

The guy isn't losing his career or that much money over this, and I doubt anyone actually believes he's a racist - I think this was a pretty ideal resolution to the matter. Let's move on.
RE: Not to be racist  
Cam in MO : 4/14/2018 11:53 am : link
In comment 13913950 XBRONX said:
Quote:
but how come every year the national spelling bee is won by Indian children.


Dot or feather?
Cam  
XBRONX : 4/14/2018 12:30 pm : link
What is the proper term for an American Indian who sells sports tickets at inflated prices?
RE: Cam  
Cam in MO : 4/14/2018 12:56 pm : link
In comment 13914011 XBRONX said:
Quote:
What is the proper term for an American Indian who sells sports tickets at inflated prices?


Stubhub? Didnít realize they were run by natives.

RE: HUGE overreaction.  
BigBlue4You09 : 4/14/2018 1:12 pm : link
In comment 13913389 T-Bone said:
Quote:
I can't believe they suspended him for that.


Agree, ridiculous that this was even a discussion. America!
RE: I don't see malicious intent there  
Bill L : 4/14/2018 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13913982 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
but there's an infinite number of other superlatives that the announcer could have used to describe a black NBA player that doesn't hark back to slavery.

In his line of work, and on that level, every word he says does matter and there has to always be a conscious effort to communicate in a way that takes in account how a large audience will receive it.

The apology he gave was an appropriate fix in this situation. The one game suspension seems to be just an added touch by the network to make sure they don't short-change the issue.

The guy isn't losing his career or that much money over this, and I doubt anyone actually believes he's a racist - I think this was a pretty ideal resolution to the matter. Let's move on.
so if he had no intent and didnít do anything wrong, it seems like *any* punishment, as trivial as it seems to us, seems really wrong to me..
RE: RE: I don't see malicious intent there  
eclipz928 : 4/14/2018 4:10 pm : link
In comment 13914055 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13913982 eclipz928 said:


Quote:


but there's an infinite number of other superlatives that the announcer could have used to describe a black NBA player that doesn't hark back to slavery.

In his line of work, and on that level, every word he says does matter and there has to always be a conscious effort to communicate in a way that takes in account how a large audience will receive it.

The apology he gave was an appropriate fix in this situation. The one game suspension seems to be just an added touch by the network to make sure they don't short-change the issue.

The guy isn't losing his career or that much money over this, and I doubt anyone actually believes he's a racist - I think this was a pretty ideal resolution to the matter. Let's move on.

so if he had no intent and didnít do anything wrong, it seems like *any* punishment, as trivial as it seems to us, seems really wrong to me..

Whether he did something wrong and whether he had any intent are two separate things. He made a mistake - in every line of work when a mistake is made it's normal for there to be some form of corrective action. No difference here.
With all the real problems we face these days  
TJ : 4/14/2018 4:43 pm : link
Unbelievable that sports fans and the people who make money from them have so much time and energy to waste on the most trivial crap. Players who can't get a job because they knelt during the anthem and now an announcer suspended for using an expression that you have to stretch to consider controversial.

Sometimes I really can't stand people.
RE: RE: RE: I don't see malicious intent there  
Bill L : 4/14/2018 4:47 pm : link
In comment 13914160 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
In comment 13914055 Bill L said:


Quote:


In comment 13913982 eclipz928 said:


Quote:


but there's an infinite number of other superlatives that the announcer could have used to describe a black NBA player that doesn't hark back to slavery.

In his line of work, and on that level, every word he says does matter and there has to always be a conscious effort to communicate in a way that takes in account how a large audience will receive it.

The apology he gave was an appropriate fix in this situation. The one game suspension seems to be just an added touch by the network to make sure they don't short-change the issue.

The guy isn't losing his career or that much money over this, and I doubt anyone actually believes he's a racist - I think this was a pretty ideal resolution to the matter. Let's move on.

so if he had no intent and didnít do anything wrong, it seems like *any* punishment, as trivial as it seems to us, seems really wrong to me..


Whether he did something wrong and whether he had any intent are two separate things. He made a mistake - in every line of work when a mistake is made it's normal for there to be some form of corrective action. No difference here.
i donít even get the mistake tbh. This thread has been up for two days and more people than not donít think that thereís anything untoward about the phrase he used. If nobody knows it offensive, maybe it actually isnít offensive. Maybe itís just words, and the guy get punished for words. We all used words all the time; should everyone get their pay docked?
The primary function of a commentator's  
eclipz928 : 4/14/2018 9:45 pm : link
job is "words". So yes, if he uses a poor selection of words, it shouldn't go unaddressed.
So things like the use of contractions,  
Bill L : 4/14/2018 10:34 pm : link
Or saying ďainítĒ should get him suspended?
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