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NFT: So this phrase IS a bit charged... OKC announcer suspended

mattlawson : 4/13/2018 4:29 pm
"Oklahoma City TV announcer Brian Davis has been suspended by the team for Game 1 of the Thunder’s first-round series against the Jazz after he used the phrase, “out of his cotton-pickin’ mind” to describe Russell Westbrook in the team’s final regular-season game."

I while back I posted about an ad that was running here in the Central VA area on talk radio with the use of the phrase 'cotton-pickin’ but it did not come across as poorly as the OKC announcer's choice of words did. That phrase is pretty loaded for me, I haven't heard it used in quite a long time, its no longer parlance if you will - even in the south. But what say you?

Is this an overreaction or are is the suspension correct here?
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HUGE overreaction.  
T-Bone : 4/13/2018 4:31 pm : link
I can't believe they suspended him for that.
It doesn’t make sense to suspend him for one game...  
bradshaw44 : 4/13/2018 4:36 pm : link
If he used that phrase and they believe it to be intentional then he should be fired. Otherwise just have him say sorry for the poor choice of words and he had no negative connotations attached to it.
I never knew that phrase was associated in any way to race  
MadPlaid : 4/13/2018 4:36 pm : link
Is that true?

My mother in law and father in law, both, picked cotton as children with their respective families and many others in Missouri. They are white, and according to them, it was not uncommon for both white and black families to be working in the cotton fields. Together? I do not know.
It is not an overreaction at all and he was an idiot  
NYSports1 : 4/13/2018 4:37 pm : link
far saying it, perhaps he just got caught up in the moment but you should know what words mean when you speak about a certain race. That is just facts.
When I was a kid that was a generic phrase, like you're crazy  
PatersonPlank : 4/13/2018 4:38 pm : link
I think its way overdone.
I think people can get offended for that  
allstarjim : 4/13/2018 4:39 pm : link
The phrase's history is steeped in racism, however, as with many words and phrases, people forget and the phrase became something other than it's original usage.

I think people should look more at intent. I'm quite confident that the announcer either didn't know the racist undertones of the phrase, much less intend it to be racist, as most people don't, even though they've probably heard it before.

I also didn't take exception to Bob McNair's comment about the "inmates running the asylum." It's a common phrase, and nobody thinks that the person saying it is actually thinking of the people referenced as inmates or crazy. It simply means that the subordinates are running the show when that shouldn't be the case, and control of the operation is lost.

It's intent. In neither case should it be assumed that the phrases were racist, as those phrases have become somewhat common idioms that are not typically used in racist ways.

But it goes back to the fact that everybody is hypersensitive these days.
Unless the guy had a history of making comments like that,  
Mad Mike : 4/13/2018 4:39 pm : link
it seems like quite an overreaction. But it's also just a 1 game suspension - seems unwarranted to me, but it's not like they're dropping the hammer in a significant way.
RE: It is not an overreaction at all and he was an idiot  
bradshaw44 : 4/13/2018 4:39 pm : link
In comment 13913398 NYSports1 said:
Quote:
far saying it, perhaps he just got caught up in the moment but you should know what words mean when you speak about a certain race. That is just facts.


He was speaking about a certain race?
what race is he speaking about?  
Rocky369 : 4/13/2018 4:40 pm : link
.
I guess white people never picked cotton  
giant24 : 4/13/2018 4:40 pm : link
who knew?
RE: I guess white people never picked cotton  
Mad Mike : 4/13/2018 4:40 pm : link
In comment 13913405 giant24 said:
Quote:
who knew?

Quality.
If the phrase has any negative racial connotation...  
T-Bone : 4/13/2018 4:42 pm : link
then MAYBE a one game suspension may be in order... but I don't know if that's the case or not.

All I do know is that it's a phrase I've heard since I was born plenty of times and not once did I think it was racially charged. The 'monkey' reference from Jimmy the Greek... I personally don't think it was THAT big a deal unless he's been known to make racially charged statements like that in the past... but I can at least understand where that might be offensive.

But 'cotton-pickin mind'?

Wow.
RE: I think people can get offended for that  
T-Bone : 4/13/2018 4:46 pm : link
In comment 13913401 allstarjim said:
Quote:
The phrase's history is steeped in racism, however, as with many words and phrases, people forget and the phrase became something other than it's original usage.

I think people should look more at intent. I'm quite confident that the announcer either didn't know the racist undertones of the phrase, much less intend it to be racist, as most people don't, even though they've probably heard it before.

I also didn't take exception to Bob McNair's comment about the "inmates running the asylum." It's a common phrase, and nobody thinks that the person saying it is actually thinking of the people referenced as inmates or crazy. It simply means that the subordinates are running the show when that shouldn't be the case, and control of the operation is lost.

It's intent. In neither case should it be assumed that the phrases were racist, as those phrases have become somewhat common idioms that are not typically used in racist ways.

But it goes back to the fact that everybody is hypersensitive these days.


I disagree about McNair only because I've heard rumor of racist things he's said and done in his past. So he allegedly has a history of exhibiting racist behavior in his past... or so I've heard/read/seen.

But this is ridiculous and I agree intent should definitely be taken into account as I'm pretty sure the announcer wouldn't go to the 'racist' angle in the middle of a basketball game when speaking about a black player on purpose. I'm sorry but even a 1 game suspension to me is too much... I personally might not have even made him apologize (but if he wanted to I'd understand).
RE: When I was a kid that was a generic phrase, like you're crazy  
steve in ky : 4/13/2018 4:46 pm : link
In comment 13913400 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
I think its way overdone.


It was more common when I was a kid also. I think I remember it being used on Bugs Bunny as well. Back then I kind of took it as a redneck kind of way of someone not using the word d*mn and that some people used as a substitute phrasing.
RE: It doesn’t make sense to suspend him for one game...  
UConn4523 : 4/13/2018 4:46 pm : link
In comment 13913395 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
If he used that phrase and they believe it to be intentional then he should be fired. Otherwise just have him say sorry for the poor choice of words and he had no negative connotations attached to it.


Agreed. 1 game just admits guilt but doesn’t really punish. I think it’s an overreaction but if they feel he was wrong than fire him.
I mean, I understand why people can make the case it's racial  
Greg from LI : 4/13/2018 4:51 pm : link
But I don't recall it ever being a racially-charged term.
RE: I mean, I understand why people can make the case it's racial  
Anakim : 4/13/2018 4:54 pm : link
In comment 13913419 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But I don't recall it ever being a racially-charged term.


Like posse?
....  
2cents : 4/13/2018 4:56 pm : link
I honestly had no clue that was even a saying, or that it was racial. First time hearing it certainly does comes off as racially charged but i agree with comment made earlier. I think it really just comes down to intent, in todays world of equality and diversity the fact that these things are labeled as racist or offensive is holding us back.

If the comment before is true that it is a phrased that was used in the south to describe someone being "crazy" or "out of your mind" regardless of color, then the announcer was actually praising him in the way those other phrases are commonly used. if he used either word in place of cotton-picking, everyone would understand the speaker was not legitimately questioning his mental health.


either way there are larger issues in the fight for equality to focus on, this is a non-starter for me but im sure the social justice brigade will be all over it.

strange world we live in.
RE: If the phrase has any negative racial connotation...  
steve in ky : 4/13/2018 4:56 pm : link
In comment 13913408 T-Bone said:
Quote:
then MAYBE a one game suspension may be in order... but I don't know if that's the case or not.

All I do know is that it's a phrase I've heard since I was born plenty of times and not once did I think it was racially charged. The 'monkey' reference from Jimmy the Greek... I personally don't think it was THAT big a deal unless he's been known to make racially charged statements like that in the past... but I can at least understand where that might be offensive.

But 'cotton-pickin mind'?

Wow.


I believe the "monkey" comment was Howard Cosell. Jimmy the Greek though did really say some inexcusable things IMO.
posse?  
Rocky369 : 4/13/2018 4:58 pm : link
As in what they rode around in in the old westerns?
I'm sorry, but  
GiantNatty : 4/13/2018 4:59 pm : link
is it against the law to be a cotton picker? Is it even close? This is ridiculousness at close to its most ridiculous.
RE: posse?  
Motley Two : 4/13/2018 5:00 pm : link
In comment 13913424 Rocky369 said:
Quote:
As in what they rode around in in the old westerns?


Like Arsenio's Band?
RE: RE: I mean, I understand why people can make the case it's racial  
2cents : 4/13/2018 5:01 pm : link
In comment 13913420 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 13913419 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


But I don't recall it ever being a racially-charged term.



Like posse?



this one still bothers me, I think the outrage against these type of things really take away from the overall movement.

and aside from the diversity/equality point, big business is not a friendly place, it is full of some very cold people who do not need to use what is seen as subtly, racist remarks to offend or screw you over. Thicker skin would go along way.
i think this kinda nails it  
GiantNatty : 4/13/2018 5:01 pm : link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceS_jkKjIgo
RE: what race is he speaking about?  
Jints in Carolina : 4/13/2018 5:06 pm : link
In comment 13913404 Rocky369 said:
Quote:
.


Exactly.
RE: RE: If the phrase has any negative racial connotation...  
Greg from LI : 4/13/2018 5:09 pm : link
In comment 13913423 steve in ky said:
Quote:
I believe the "monkey" comment was Howard Cosell. Jimmy the Greek though did really say some inexcusable things IMO.


Yes, "Look at that little monkey" was Cosell. Jimmy the Greek said that black players were more athletic because of selective breeding during slavery.
RE: It is not an overreaction at all and he was an idiot  
djm : 4/13/2018 5:18 pm : link
In comment 13913398 NYSports1 said:
Quote:
far saying it, perhaps he just got caught up in the moment but you should know what words mean when you speak about a certain race. That is just facts.


And yet you say stupid repetitive shit on here every single day.
My wife,  
Pete in MD : 4/13/2018 5:19 pm : link
who conducts trainings in a corporate environment, got in trouble for using the term "in the field" when referring to employees who worked at the local sites. Obviously, it's a commonly used term (FBI Field Offices, etc) but someone in the audience took offense because she saw it as a slavery reference. It's actually a farming reference that may be linked to slavery but is it any worse than saying "master bedroom" or even calling your boss a "slave driver?"
RE: My wife,  
steve in ky : 4/13/2018 5:22 pm : link
In comment 13913441 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
who conducts trainings in a corporate environment, got in trouble for using the term "in the field" when referring to employees who worked at the local sites. Obviously, it's a commonly used term (FBI Field Offices, etc) but someone in the audience took offense because she saw it as a slavery reference. It's actually a farming reference that may be linked to slavery but is it any worse than saying "master bedroom" or even calling your boss a "slave driver?"


You really crossed the mine there with "master bedroom"
ugh mine = line  
steve in ky : 4/13/2018 5:22 pm : link
.
"We have to  
Pete in MD : 4/13/2018 5:24 pm : link
whip them into shape!" Oh shit, that's offensive too.
Or what about  
Pete in MD : 4/13/2018 5:29 pm : link
when your buddy gets a text from his wife and has to leave happy hour right away? Everyone says, "Dude, you're whipped!" Also offensive. It's really a minefield.
Thanks fellas...  
T-Bone : 4/13/2018 5:30 pm : link
my first thought was that it was Cosell to be honest but wasn't sure. Thanks for clarifying.

I'm really a lil upset that he was suspended. I just got finished ranting about it to a co-worker for the past half hour.
As a kid growing up in the 80's  
NYG27 : 4/13/2018 5:57 pm : link
I used to watch Looney Tunes and remember Yosemite Sam using that reference all the time. Seen several of the classic episodes recently with my kids and they have edited a lot of scenes. Hardly see Yosemite Sam or Speedy Gonzalez anymore.

Also as a kid, one of my favorite Tom and Jerry cartoons was of them in the Wild West with Tom rolling up a cigarette. He used Jerry to lick it, to roll it up and then fired a gun to light it. Heard that episode is now banned in the US.
Eli Whitney  
XBRONX : 4/13/2018 6:04 pm : link
is rolling over in his grave.
sticks and stones hell Howard Cosell called  
gtt350 : 4/13/2018 6:40 pm : link
a Redskin running back a little monkey
RE: RE: RE: If the phrase has any negative racial connotation...  
gtt350 : 4/13/2018 6:42 pm : link
In comment 13913433 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13913423 steve in ky said:


Quote:


I believe the "monkey" comment was Howard Cosell. Jimmy the Greek though did really say some inexcusable things IMO.



a black History professor from Harvard confirmed that what Jimmmy said was absolutely true



Yes, "Look at that little monkey" was Cosell. Jimmy the Greek said that black players were more athletic because of selective breeding during slavery.
So, this was the question I was asking this morning..  
Bill L : 4/13/2018 7:10 pm : link
In this case, there was clearly no malice, prejudice, or ill intent. So, his punishment was not because of him but because a recipient (or recipients) was offended. So, the offended person takes precedence over the lack of intention to do harm and the burden is on the speaker to be aware that someone might be offended and refrain from that behavior.

The comparison this morning was the oft-repeated statement that military people or military supporters, or whoever shouldn’t be offended by kneeling for the National Anthem because the kneelers state that their intention is not to disparage or disrespect the military.

Seems like the same thing to me. How do you reconcile the two examples?
While I think that people have to be more  
chopperhatch : 4/13/2018 7:15 pm : link
Wary about what they say if for no other reason than to avoid a PR/perception nightmare, I think the current knee jerk reaction to suspend someone is wrong. "Cotton pickin mind" is an expression (tho I dont know how it originated and might be missing something) that Ive heard fairly often. It would be far more appropriate to ask the announcer to clarify his intent via a public statement with an apology to those offended before dropping the hammer of a SUSPENSION. Tho maybe he was asked to and refused. Unless the latter happened I think a suspension is heavy.

McNair, while similar in terms of what he said is a known expression, said "inmates running the prison" instead of "asylum."
pic of said announcer.  
madgiantscow009 : 4/13/2018 7:17 pm : link


he also said he was rootin' tootin'
H A T E C R I M E  
Sarcastic Sam : 4/13/2018 7:18 pm : link
It's like real crime, but worse.
RE: So, this was the question I was asking this morning..  
bw in dc : 4/13/2018 7:20 pm : link
In comment 13913520 Bill L said:
Quote:
In this case, there was clearly no malice, prejudice, or ill intent. So, his punishment was not because of him but because a recipient (or recipients) was offended. So, the offended person takes precedence over the lack of intention to do harm and the burden is on the speaker to be aware that someone might be offended and refrain from that behavior.


I know I’m not answering your question but your last sentence, while likely true in this day and age, is almost impossible to manage to. It eliminates spontaneity and honesty and basically reduces communication to a safety zone of pre-determined safe phrases.
RE: So, this was the question I was asking this morning..  
Motley Two : 4/13/2018 7:24 pm : link
In comment 13913520 Bill L said:
Quote:
In this case, there was clearly no malice, prejudice, or ill intent. So, his punishment was not because of him but because a recipient (or recipients) was offended. So, the offended person takes precedence over the lack of intention to do harm and the burden is on the speaker to be aware that someone might be offended and refrain from that behavior.

The comparison this morning was the oft-repeated statement that military people or military supporters, or whoever shouldn’t be offended by kneeling for the National Anthem because the kneelers state that their intention is not to disparage or disrespect the military.

Seems like the same thing to me. How do you reconcile the two examples?


You take words for what they are. Tools to communicate thoughts and ideas. If the thought being conveyed is ugly and the intent is to disparage, by all means be offended.
If somebody builds a cross to burn on somebody's lawn, I'm not gonna get upset at wood, hammer nails & gasoline, but plenty of people certainly do exactly that with words and symbols.
RE: RE: So, this was the question I was asking this morning..  
Bill L : 4/13/2018 7:25 pm : link
In comment 13913529 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13913520 Bill L said:


Quote:


In this case, there was clearly no malice, prejudice, or ill intent. So, his punishment was not because of him but because a recipient (or recipients) was offended. So, the offended person takes precedence over the lack of intention to do harm and the burden is on the speaker to be aware that someone might be offended and refrain from that behavior.




I know I’m not answering your question but your last sentence, while likely true in this day and age, is almost impossible to manage to. It eliminates spontaneity and honesty and basically reduces communication to a safety zone of pre-determined safe phrases.
and I’m pretty sure that the n for the people who need to be offended for you to be pu I shed for your words is one.
Punished  
Bill L : 4/13/2018 7:26 pm : link
.
RE: H A T E C R I M E  
madgiantscow009 : 4/13/2018 7:27 pm : link
In comment 13913528 Sarcastic Sam said:
Quote:
It's like real crime, but worse.


1:33
art class. - ( New Window )
RE: H A T E C R I M E  
bradshaw44 : 4/13/2018 7:30 pm : link
In comment 13913528 Sarcastic Sam said:
Quote:
It's like real crime, but worse.


Hahaha
I'm from  
lugnut : 4/13/2018 7:52 pm : link
the state that started the Civil War and I didn't associate "cotton pickin'" with slavery and negro field hands or whatever until it occurred to me a few years ago (I'm 52) -- believe it or not. I STILL say it on occasion. To me it just means crazy, but now, after my epiphany, no, I would not say it to a black person.

And maybe I'm out of my cotton pickin' mind, but I don't see what's so offensive about that one thing Jimmy the Greek said. Do many people think black people are GENERALLY a little more athletically gifted? (About 12% of the U.S. population, but 75%-80% of the NFL and NBA population - just sayin'.) There WAS at least some careful/selective "breeding" back during slavery -- seems like a neutral, (somewhat) scientific explanation to me. Now, if he'd said blacks are better athletes but it's "balanced" by their lower intelligence -- THAT's horrific and racist.
Hope  
lugnut : 4/13/2018 7:53 pm : link
I didn't just get myself banned.
RE: I'm from  
Sarcastic Sam : 4/13/2018 7:57 pm : link
In comment 13913561 lugnut said:
Quote:
the state that started the Civil War and I didn't associate "cotton pickin'" with slavery and negro field hands or whatever until it occurred to me a few years ago (I'm 52) -- believe it or not. I STILL say it on occasion. To me it just means crazy, but now, after my epiphany, no, I would not say it to a black person.

And maybe I'm out of my cotton pickin' mind, but I don't see what's so offensive about that one thing Jimmy the Greek said. Do many people think black people are GENERALLY a little more athletically gifted? (About 12% of the U.S. population, but 75%-80% of the NFL and NBA population - just sayin'.) There WAS at least some careful/selective "breeding" back during slavery -- seems like a neutral, (somewhat) scientific explanation to me. Now, if he'd said blacks are better athletes but it's "balanced" by their lower intelligence -- THAT's horrific and racist.


Do many people think Asian people are GENERALLY a little more academically gifted?
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