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Article on RT Chad Wheeler

YANKEE28 : 4/14/2018 1:39 am
Nice to hear he is working hard to get stronger this offseason.

And now he is up to 320 pounds. (increased his weight 14 pounds from 306 to 320)

He has a great opportunity and Flowers absence makes this even more meaningful.
Link - ( New Window )
One  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/14/2018 1:46 am : link
of my favorite Sy interviews was with Wheeler.
Perhaps an  
YANKEE28 : 4/14/2018 1:48 am : link
in house Hog Molly.
This is big news  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 4/14/2018 3:27 am : link
This kid seriously flashed last year.

I love his lateral agility , all he needed was better core strength and some technique refinement.

I think he has a legit chance for the starting RT spot.

Possiblly:

Solder- Omameh- Jones/Draft pick?-2nd rounder-Wheeler/Flowers
Was one of the top 3  
Sy'56 : 4/14/2018 5:58 am : link
UDFA from last year.

Ask me if I take Flowers or Wheeler at RT week 1 2018, I have to really think about it.
I actually feel more comfortable with Wheeler  
George from PA : 4/14/2018 6:11 am : link
especially if he is weighing 320....as core strength was my primary issue with him.

he has good feet....improve his technique...we should be in good shape.

didn't he protect Darnold?
RE: Was one of the top 3  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 4/14/2018 6:13 am : link
In comment 13913801 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
UDFA from last year.

Ask me if I take Flowers or Wheeler at RT week 1 2018, I have to really think about it.


Wheeler is in camp, and I am sure he is working hard. Flowers was the only player not to show up. Does that make the decision easier?
Comments about Wheeler were encouraging but where did the negativity  
Ivan15 : 4/14/2018 6:53 am : link
About Omameh come from? I hadnít read anything so negative elsewhere about Omameh. I thought the guy was mediocre, hopefully a little better than mediocre.

Remarks make him sound like John Jerry, part 2. If that is the case, Giants seriously overpaid and should just keep Jerry.
no way giants pick up the flowers 5th yr option  
sundayatone : 4/14/2018 7:13 am : link
if wheeler can send flowers to the bench it helps with better o line play and better economics.
RE: Was one of the top 3  
Capt. Don : 4/14/2018 7:20 am : link
In comment 13913801 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
UDFA from last year.

Ask me if I take Flowers or Wheeler at RT week 1 2018, I have to really think about it.


Hey Sy, knowing what you know now, what round would you be comfortable taking Wheeler if they re-drafted the 2017 draft?
I love it  
DavidinBMNY : 4/14/2018 7:47 am : link
Every day Flowers misses, that positions Wheeler one step closer to beating him out. Little things like bonding with the rest of line, talking to coaches to bigger things like taking snaps with the OL.

Flowers when he gets to camp is going to be #2 on the depth chart and is going to just fight to make the team. Here's to someone like Wheeler raising the competition level.

Screw Flowers. For whatever reason he's decided not to attend camp, it's a sign of me before team.

Flowers days are numbered. Addition by subtraction.

this is one of the things I'm really gonna miss this year is  
gidiefor : Mod : 4/14/2018 7:55 am : link
looking at these guys with Sy at camp -- I had to go out and land a real job -- sheesh
I kind of think  
Mark from Jersey : 4/14/2018 8:14 am : link
he has been a forgotten man in a way. When we landed Solder everyone was like yes we can finally move Flowers to RT.

Not so fast...
I wouldn't consider Flowers a factor at all  
Beer Man : 4/14/2018 8:23 am : link
With his attitude he is in his last year with the Giants. There is no way they pick up his 5th year option, and if there isn't improvement in his play and attitude they won't pursue a new contract with him. The job is there for Wheeler to take away.
I would have been disappointed if Wheeler didn't add muscle weight  
ZogZerg : 4/14/2018 8:29 am : link
in the off season. His strength was the big knock on him and folks said give him a year to add strength.
When you look at this Oline,  
Doomster : 4/14/2018 8:33 am : link
what is the upgrade thus far?

Just Solder.....

I am not sold on Wheeler......he is another Reese project.....this team is strapped by the cap.....there are not many moves it can make on the OL other than hit on a player in the draft....

Jones is nothing special, and may be just a one year rental....but he is a guy who will give you 100% of what he has, and hopefully can play 16 games....

The enigma of Flowers continues, especially with him not showing up.....is this a reaction to the countdown to May 3rd?

The Giants are forced to finally try Flowers at another position, and how that will pan out will be a mystery.....

Hal Hunter(?) has his work cut out for him.....can he somehow put together a group of guys that can protect Eli? Will we finally see a successful screen pass? Will we be able to convert short yardage situations? It's asking a lot....as far as the draft goes, we may not go OL until the third Round, and the odds drop dramatically by then....

But this is DG and co., not the Reese machine.....but until we see the results in preseason, we have no idea of how this draft will pan out.....

One thing I want to see with this offense and the OL, is some sort of urgency....it just did not seem to be there the last two preseasons....and Eli has to step up his game in preseason, also.....this offense has a lot of work to do....

I just felt this offense was not ready out of the gate the last two seasons...

Great news  
Matt M. : 4/14/2018 8:39 am : link
I really thought he was one if the best UDFA available and a great pickup. But, we really didn't see enough last year to say anything definitive about this year. I think RT is a wide open competition. Either he or Flowers will win the job; nobody is pencilled in just yet.
RE: When you look at this Oline,  
Beer Man : 4/14/2018 8:45 am : link
In comment 13913838 Doomster said:
Quote:
what is the upgrade thus far?

Just Solder.....

I am not sold on Wheeler......he is another Reese project.....this team is strapped by the cap.....there are not many moves it can make on the OL other than hit on a player in the draft....

Jones is nothing special, and may be just a one year rental....but he is a guy who will give you 100% of what he has, and hopefully can play 16 games....

The enigma of Flowers continues, especially with him not showing up.....is this a reaction to the countdown to May 3rd?

The Giants are forced to finally try Flowers at another position, and how that will pan out will be a mystery.....

Hal Hunter(?) has his work cut out for him.....can he somehow put together a group of guys that can protect Eli? Will we finally see a successful screen pass? Will we be able to convert short yardage situations? It's asking a lot....as far as the draft goes, we may not go OL until the third Round, and the odds drop dramatically by then....

But this is DG and co., not the Reese machine.....but until we see the results in preseason, we have no idea of how this draft will pan out.....

One thing I want to see with this offense and the OL, is some sort of urgency....it just did not seem to be there the last two preseasons....and Eli has to step up his game in preseason, also.....this offense has a lot of work to do....

I just felt this offense was not ready out of the gate the last two seasons...
Don't forget they also signed Omameh who will most likely playing one of the G positions (hopefully pushing Jerry to the bench)
RE: When you look at this Oline,  
RetroJint : 4/14/2018 9:04 am : link
In comment 13913838 Doomster said:
Quote:
what is the upgrade thus far?

Just Solder.....

I am not sold on Wheeler......he is another Reese project.....this team is strapped by the cap.....there are not many moves it can make on the OL other than hit on a player in the draft....

Jones is nothing special, and may be just a one year rental....but he is a guy who will give you 100% of what he has, and hopefully can play 16 games....

The enigma of Flowers continues, especially with him not showing up.....is this a reaction to the countdown to May 3rd?

The Giants are forced to finally try Flowers at another position, and how that will pan out will be a mystery.....

Hal Hunter(?) has his work cut out for him.....can he somehow put together a group of guys that can protect Eli? Will we finally see a successful screen pass? Will we be able to convert short yardage situations? It's asking a lot....as far as the draft goes, we may not go OL until the third Round, and the odds drop dramatically by then....

But this is DG and co., not the Reese machine.....but until we see the results in preseason, we have no idea of how this draft will pan out.....

One thing I want to see with this offense and the OL, is some sort of urgency....it just did not seem to be there the last two preseasons....and Eli has to step up his game in preseason, also.....this offense has a lot of work to do....

I just felt this offense was not ready out of the gate the last two seasons...


I agree the Giants were not ready to start the season the last two seasons. I think part of the problem was that McAdoo placed too much emphasis on starting the season healthy, at the expense of having them ready for the physical nature of the regular season. Also, letís reaffirm that Eli played terribly , as well, perhaps because he was neurotic about the oline , but, whatever , heís supposed to be the ďfranchise.Ē

But ďsense of urgencyĒ is an air-filled cliche . The Giants need better players . They need a better quarterback . They need their best players to be healthy. They need their very best player signed to a long-term deal.

As for the thread start, itís obvious Wheeler has talent. He has better feet and hands than Flowers. But he needs to get stronger . Heís prone to the bull rush and heís late out of stance , which leads to problems, especially on the road.

Lastly Iím not sure Gettleman has improved the overall quality of the line so far this off-season. He now has a competent , professional LT but he lost two guys who, regardless of what BBI followers think of them, signed 50 million dollars worth of guaranteed contracts with other teams .
As for Omameh,  
Doomster : 4/14/2018 9:09 am : link
the guard bar was not set high last season.....this was an undrafted lineman, and he hit the lottery with the Giants because we are desperate.....

If he can just stay on the field and outplay Jerry, yes he is an improvement.....but does he play well with others? Let's hope for the best....
The Doomster, you're more of a glass  
Dave on the UWS : 4/14/2018 9:16 am : link
Half empty guy then I am, which is saying something. There were two knocks on Wheeler coming out and the second one caused him to be un drafted. One he was not nearly strong enough and two more importantly, his attitude, desire and dedication were severely questioned. On talent he was a mid round draft choice. On attitude he was a "don't bother". I'd he has worked hard off season to get to 320 BOTH those questions would be answered.
Very good to hear...  
the mike : 4/14/2018 9:34 am : link
Gettleman's history of developing successful UDFA Offensive Linemen can only be further inspiration for Wheeler. I would love to see him win the job and emerge as a top right tackle in this league.

Have to hope that Solder and Omameh are anchors on the left side and Jones is competent enough at center. But the right side of the O-Line is very much up for grabs and I have to believe that at least one or both of the 2018 starters are still not yet on this roster...

The O-Line has been the bane of this team and McAdoo's idiotic offensive scheme for years now... Giants are a losing team again in 2018 if they screw this up...
Flowers would be a final cut  
WillieYoung : 4/14/2018 9:51 am : link
if his entire comp was not guaranteed. My guess is that he wants to be cut now which is why he's not around.
Obviously the potential advantage of players like  
idiotsavant : 4/14/2018 9:53 am : link
Wheeler could be: on draft day, in a random trade down or for the 2nd round pick, if you are presented with a choice between a maybe starting quality offensive tackle and a potentially game changing type defensive player or running back, you want to be free to take the potentially game changing player as opposed to the plug a spot player.

So, being tuned in right now shows a lot, or could show, for wheeler, in that regard.
I understand the excitement for Wheeler  
Peppers : 4/14/2018 9:54 am : link
considering the dire need for OL and I'm hoping for the best here but 14lbs could be bad weight just as well as good weight.

There was a lot wrong in the first clip (which was the Thanksgiving game, I was there freezing my ass off) from a technique stand point and it was some of the same problems he had when I watched him at USC. Keeps his hands a little too low, elbows are wide, and his punch suffers with no pop and awful timing. He drops his head losing Kerrigan and stops his feet. Kerrigan had absolutely no trouble running the arc. If Eli doesn't have the pocket awareness he has that would've been ugly. People need to understand Wheeler is a long way off. Best we can hope for right now is that he fills the role as our back up swing tackle while he gets stronger, which is also obvious in the second clip.

I'm down on Flowers right now as well, but having him work at RT is still the best case scenario.

I will say this about Wheeler, he is a much better fit for the zone schemes NYG will run under Shurmur/Hunter.
Wheeler  
Marty866b : 4/14/2018 9:55 am : link
Looked a whole lot more comfortable at left tackle then on the right side last year.
The situation highlights  
idiotsavant : 4/14/2018 10:13 am : link
The whole opportunity cost thing:

When you miss on a high pick you not only burn that spot but potentially have to eat an additional one down the line as you seek the replacement for a 'hole' as opposed to the proactive move for an upside x factor.

That said, Flowers may be like Russia, that is; not nearly as much of a threat (to his opponents) as originally billed, but not nearly as incompetent, as we now assume, either.
RE: Flowers would be a final cut  
Diver_Down : 4/14/2018 10:18 am : link
In comment 13913886 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
if his entire comp was not guaranteed. My guess is that he wants to be cut now which is why he's not around.


Or another theory is that he was asked to stay away and stay healthy.
DG Playing Chess with Flowers as a Pawn - ( New Window )
RT/LT  
idiotsavant : 4/14/2018 10:20 am : link
With regard to the percieved hierarchy of skills, (from guard, to right tackle, to left tackle) what we have seen a gazillion times over the years, us that it's very individual and not necessarily that way:

Some players thrive at left and suck elsewhere. Some excel at right guard and suck elsewhere.

We've seen college level tackles get years of 3rd string at guard and not make it, never having had a shot at OT.

Each player is different. We might not have our right OT yet.
The problem with the perception  
idiotsavant : 4/14/2018 10:29 am : link
Of a hierarchy of skills is that it could seriously reduce %ages in player development:

For example Wheeler: If his best potentail is at left tackle, if he's not yet ready at right tackle, according to hierarchy of skills theory, you would not try him at second string left tackle.

And possibly waste a quality starting left tackle down the line based on the assumption that a second year player who didn't make it at right wouldn't make it in his third or a later year year at left. Which is not well founded logic.
Human aptitude in general  
idiotsavant : 4/14/2018 10:53 am : link
Tends to be random (jigsaw puzzle) as opposed to hierarchical (ladder).

So, it's possible to have a player with (choose a number) 85% potentail at left tackle, 65% at right and 40% at guard.

According to a hierarchy of skills theory, if that player didn't do well -initially- at left, you would try him then at right (lowering his chance of success) and then if he doesn't do well enough at that, at guard (gets cut).

Which for that particular individual would be exactly the wrong thing. For a player with that profile you'd keep them at 2nd, 3rd or 4th left tackle and practice practice practice.

But each one is differently made.
RE: Was one of the top 3  
djm : 4/14/2018 10:54 am : link
In comment 13913801 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
UDFA from last year.

Ask me if I take Flowers or Wheeler at RT week 1 2018, I have to really think about it.


Itís gonna be wheeler. Flowers wonít make the team in my view.
Diver Down  
WillieYoung : 4/14/2018 11:34 am : link
I've never heard of an NFL linemaN GETTING HURT IN MEETINGS. They aren't allowed on field this week and next. I think Robert Gallery has more trade value than Flowers and he hasn't played in 10 years.
Wheeler getting stronger is huge for us, 14 pounds is a lot  
PatersonPlank : 4/14/2018 12:16 pm : link
With Solder and Omameh, and Wheeler adding this weight and strength, its like 3 new players. I also think we draft another OL player in the first 3 rounds, so we could have 4 new players really contributing
Wheeler has the upside of a very, very good pass blocking OT  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 4/14/2018 12:31 pm : link
That can play either LT or RT. If he pans out he will be extremely valuable to this OL.
No big deal.  
CT Charlie : 4/14/2018 12:38 pm : link
I added 14 pounds since last summer, too.
RE: No big deal.  
PatersonPlank : 4/14/2018 1:06 pm : link
In comment 13914019 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
I added 14 pounds since last summer, too.


Me too, however I hope Wheeler added his weight in different places than me
A Flower by any other name, would smell just as bad...  
Doomster : 4/14/2018 1:10 pm : link
RE: Was one of the top 3
djm : 10:54 am : link : reply
Itís gonna be wheeler. Flowers wonít make the team in my view.


I can't see the Giants cutting a guy with 2.4M guaranteed, and representing 4.5M in dead money....we are kind of stuck with him as a starter/back up.....May 3rd is fast approaching for Flowers.....him not showing up means he know what will happen May 3rd.....
I  
AcidTest : 4/14/2018 1:40 pm : link
wonder if Flowers could be traded during the draft.
RE: Diver Down  
Diver_Down : 4/14/2018 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13913967 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
I've never heard of an NFL linemaN GETTING HURT IN MEETINGS. They aren't allowed on field this week and next. I think Robert Gallery has more trade value than Flowers and he hasn't played in 10 years.


Besides meetings, there was strength and conditioning. Billy Price partially tore his pectoral at the combine. Injuries can happen while lifting weights. If Flowers injures himself at the Giants facility or a team sanctioned event, then the Giants are liable for his treatment/injury settlement. If he gets injured on his own time, then the Giants can place him on the NFI list and withhold his salary.

Look, I don't think he has much trade value, but he is still a young first round pick that some team might be willing to take a chance on even if it is a 6th round pick. The fact is he's not a Gettleman Guy. There were reported issues at the end of the season that left Hart out of work and Flowers having to explain himself. If it wasn't for the draft pedigree, he likely would have been joining Hart.
RE: I  
Diver_Down : 4/14/2018 1:50 pm : link
In comment 13914062 AcidTest said:
Quote:
wonder if Flowers could be traded during the draft.


I agree. See my linked response above as to a potential theory as why Flowers missed last week without any questions/explanations.
I was more excited about getting Wheeler  
Jay on the Island : 4/14/2018 2:05 pm : link
than I was to get Bisnowaty in the 6th round. Wheeler just seems like the type of player who is going to be a very good offensive linemen if he can stay healthy.

Trade out of #2 with Bills  
GeorgeAdams33 : 4/14/2018 3:30 pm : link
(using Flowers and draft choices)

Trade up from #12 for Nelson

Trade up from #22 for McGlinchey

Draft our favorite Center somewhere in Round Two or Three

Also spend two picks on Big D-linemen (over 320)

RE: Trade out of #2 with Bills  
81_Great_Dane : 4/14/2018 5:11 pm : link
In comment 13914131 GeorgeAdams33 said:
Quote:
(using Flowers and draft choices)

Trade up from #12 for Nelson

Trade up from #22 for McGlinchey

Draft our favorite Center somewhere in Round Two or Three

Also spend two picks on Big D-linemen (over 320)
I don't think Flowers has any trade value right now. Like, literally: I don't think anyone will give anything for him. The Giants don't want him, he doesn't want to be there, why give any assets for him when it looks like he'll be cut anyway?

Plus, at this point, they might have to pay another team to take him, sort of the way Cleveland got a pick to take Brock Osweiler off Houston's hands. Flowers is not good on the field, not good in the clubhouse.

I still hope he blossoms with the Giants and becomes a great lineman. But I always hope anybody on the team does well. Not optimistic about him anymore though.
I wonder if Wheeler is an option at LG  
Jay on the Island : 4/14/2018 5:16 pm : link
I think Omameh is a better fit at RG and Wheeler is the same weight as Pugh was last season. If Wheeler has gotten much stronger then he could be a similar player to Pugh at LG.
Flowers has value  
GeorgeAdams33 : 4/14/2018 5:26 pm : link
Maybe more to some other team even at left tackle. He is still young enough that if he had a fresh start he might improve. Gettleman said you should never give up on talent, but sometimes a player needs a fresh start in a new atmosphere. Teams are desperate for offensive line help and someone might've liked him in the 2015 draft just enough to take him off of our hands in a package deal.
I bet the Colts would love Flowers  
GeorgeAdams33 : 4/14/2018 5:28 pm : link
Their O-line has sucked for ages
RE: No big deal.  
Bill in UT : 4/14/2018 9:30 pm : link
In comment 13914019 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
I added 14 pounds since last summer, too.


ha. I dropped 14 pounds. From my chest to my stomach
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