After reading John Fox's article, I came away wondering the way Fox describes utilizing Barkley would extend his career. My thought was just the presence of Barkley along with OBJ, Shepherd and Engram would pose more of a problem in defensing such a line up. At the same time, would this give less touches to Barkley, creating a less wear and tear of a RB. Could using Barkley as an all purpose weapon as opposed to a pound the rock running back extend his career given the other weapons on the field? Just a thought.
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I have 2 concerns. Knee injuries.
The way he cuts it seems like he is bound to tear an ACL at some point.
The second is his penchant for leaping over defenders. I think that style might get him killed in the NFL.
I have 2 concerns. Knee injuries.
The way he cuts it seems like he is bound to tear an ACL at some point.
The second is his penchant for leaping over defenders. I think that style might get him killed in the NFL.
Other plays have more injuries than Barkley does.
What works in his favor is his elusiveness to not take that huge hit.ohhewill get hit the the impact will be less than a bruiser like Marshawn Lynch was
I suspect Cleveland would trade down with Buffalo anyway.....or take Chubb.
so Barkley will be available at 5
This, 100%
We take Darnold gets sacked hard rand tears shoulder.
Or...
Or it's okay not to have a QB.
Or that "you know" Webb will be fine.
You don't.
He actually IS that the BPA.
The Happy Valley Hype Train has been at full steam for this guy. Buyer Beware.
He actually IS that the BPA.
If we can get something like that our offense would be extremely hard to defend
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Doesn't have to be a pound the rock guy. His presence is a threat to pound it, especially if the middle of our OL are hogmollies, OR use his versatility, OR just to decoy for the passing game.
He actually IS that the BPA.
Yeah, he really pounded it against Indiana and Rutgers. He's a good receiver, I grant you, and a fast guy, but so was Reggie Bush.
Are you absolutely declaring him a Reggie Bush and absolutely saying he cannot be a Marshall Faulk?
Or it's okay not to have a QB.
Or that "you know" Webb will be fine.
You have entered the Kingdom. Nice job.
The "Locked on NFL Draft" podcast did a mock draft where team beat writers made picks for each team. They are praying for the Giants to take Barkley at 2. they are laughing at the Giants if they consider Barkley at 2. The jets beat writers were thrilled to have Rosen land to them. The Broncos beat writers were adamant that the Broncos would never consider Barkley at #5.
Barkley at #2 is totally foolish, especially WHEN YOU NEED A QUARTERBACK.
Let Cleveland know he can be had for a price: #4, #33 and their 2019 first round pick. See what happens.
Definitely should stop hurtling people.
Funny you mention the Bucs, because in all the talk of trades. This trade seems pretty plausible
The Bucs have pick #7, pick #38, and then nothing until pick #102. Based on past trades I think it'd look something like this:
Bills trade 12, 56, & 96 to the Bucs for 7 (14% premium, a little above typical for a 5-10 pick)
Bills trade 7, 22, and a 2019 2nd to the Giants for 2 (37% premium, a little under the Jets' premium, but above the typical premium from 2011-2017)
Bills would have picks 2, 53, 65, 121, 166, 187 (122.42, down from 167)
Giants would have 7, 22, 34, 66, 69, 108, 139, and the Bills 2019 2nd (192.15, up from 157.85)
Bucs would have 12, 38, 56, 96, 102, 144, 180, 202, and 255 (122.25, up from 111.97)
You can add a couple of additional picks to either side of the trade (maybe an additional 3rd for the Giants), but it functionally gives all 3 teams decent value.
The "Locked on NFL Draft" podcast did a mock draft where team beat writers made picks for each team. They are praying for the Giants to take Barkley at 2. they are laughing at the Giants if they consider Barkley at 2. The jets beat writers were thrilled to have Rosen land to them. The Broncos beat writers were adamant that the Broncos would never consider Barkley at #5.
Barkley at #2 is totally foolish, especially WHEN YOU NEED A QUARTERBACK.
Great analysis.
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Nothing against the talent, but If 4 QBs go in top 5, and Cleveland opts for Chubb, I can see the Colts going Nelson to protect Luck and the Bucs could choose between him and Minkah. It really comes down to the elite talent at a downstream position (RB) or a great talent at a more impactful upstream position (DE, OL, CB)
Funny you mention the Bucs, because in all the talk of trades. This trade seems pretty plausible
The Bucs have pick #7, pick #38, and then nothing until pick #102. Based on past trades I think it'd look something like this:
Bills trade 12, 56, & 96 to the Bucs for 7 (14% premium, a little above typical for a 5-10 pick)
Bills trade 7, 22, and a 2019 2nd to the Giants for 2 (37% premium, a little under the Jets' premium, but above the typical premium from 2011-2017)
Bills would have picks 2, 53, 65, 121, 166, 187 (122.42, down from 167)
Giants would have 7, 22, 34, 66, 69, 108, 139, and the Bills 2019 2nd (192.15, up from 157.85)
Bucs would have 12, 38, 56, 96, 102, 144, 180, 202, and 255 (122.25, up from 111.97)
You can add a couple of additional picks to either side of the trade (maybe an additional 3rd for the Giants), but it functionally gives all 3 teams decent value.
Would need a lot more from Buffalo but I like the idea of them moving up. Otherwise we just take the QB
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... take Barkley at #2 they should be run out of town.
The "Locked on NFL Draft" podcast did a mock draft where team beat writers made picks for each team. They are praying for the Giants to take Barkley at 2. they are laughing at the Giants if they consider Barkley at 2. The jets beat writers were thrilled to have Rosen land to them. The Broncos beat writers were adamant that the Broncos would never consider Barkley at #5.
Barkley at #2 is totally foolish, especially WHEN YOU NEED A QUARTERBACK.
Great analysis.
It would be really funny if Rosen does not pan out. Taking a QB just to take a QB if the value is not there is just Cro-Magnon thinking. DG is has a pretty good track record in evaluating talent. I would trust him over bunch of New York beat writers. Doesn't matter what they think.
The Happy Valley Hype Train has been at full steam for this guy. Buyer Beware.
Yea, buyers beware.
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Revolve around him staying injury free
I have 2 concerns. Knee injuries.
The way he cuts it seems like he is bound to tear an ACL at some point.
The second is his penchant for leaping over defenders. I think that style might get him killed in the NFL.
Other plays have more injuries than Barkley does.
What works in his favor is his elusiveness to not take that huge hit.ohhewill get hit the the impact will be less than a bruiser like Marshawn Lynch was
Correct. That's what is very impressive about Barkley, you rarely see him take big hits. He is adept at avoiding them, and he protects his body well when he knows there is nothing left to get. I think it will serve him well.
Emmitt Smith is the classic example of a guy that didn't take a lot of big hits, and knew when to go down and protect himself. That's why he had such a long career. And he wasn't nearly as agile as Barkley, he just knew how to protect his body. I think Barkley is a good bet to play 10 years.
The Happy Valley Hype Train has been at full steam for this guy. Buyer Beware.
Barkley has proven he can be a 25 carry guy. I think it's less about the carries than it is about touches for him, though.
He is not all hype, either. It shows up on tape, on the stat sheet, and in his measurables.
The Bush comparison is unfair because Bush was a perimeter guy really and he didn't have the body to run between the tackles like Barkley does. Bush was also more of a 10-12 carry guy, and even in college he was a complimentary back, part of a two-headed rush attack. Most will remember the "pound the rock"/between the tackles running back for USC during Bush's big years was LenDale White. Barkley was nearly the entire offense for Penn State the last two seasons in particular.
That USC team had, in addition to Bush and White, Dwayne Jarrett, Steve Smith, and Matt Leinart under center. Defenses could not zero in on one player, they had to play straight up. Not so on the Nittany Lions, who hasn't really had a QB to fear, or much outside at receiver (Godwin in 2016).
IMO there is nothing to beware with when it comes to Saquon Barkley. As an offensive weapon, there have been few to come out of the draft of his caliber...ever. I think the closest comp to him is LaDainian Tomlinson. I have him as better than Faulk, but Faulk being his floor.
Call me crazy if you want...but this guy is the goods. I rarely have a conviction like this on a guy, he is a future Hall of Famer if he stays healthy, that's the kind of talent he has.
Last RB to be taken at # 2
And if anything, he was more hyped than Barkley.
I wouldn't want my job security based on having to stop that offense.
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is what Fox is saying. You don't take receiving backs at #2. You take guys who can carry the rock 25 times AND catch, like Fournette or Gurley.
The Happy Valley Hype Train has been at full steam for this guy. Buyer Beware.
Barkley has proven he can be a 25 carry guy. I think it's less about the carries than it is about touches for him, though.
He is not all hype, either. It shows up on tape, on the stat sheet, and in his measurables.
The Bush comparison is unfair because Bush was a perimeter guy really and he didn't have the body to run between the tackles like Barkley does. Bush was also more of a 10-12 carry guy, and even in college he was a complimentary back, part of a two-headed rush attack. Most will remember the "pound the rock"/between the tackles running back for USC during Bush's big years was LenDale White. Barkley was nearly the entire offense for Penn State the last two seasons in particular.
That USC team had, in addition to Bush and White, Dwayne Jarrett, Steve Smith, and Matt Leinart under center. Defenses could not zero in on one player, they had to play straight up. Not so on the Nittany Lions, who hasn't really had a QB to fear, or much outside at receiver (Godwin in 2016).
IMO there is nothing to beware with when it comes to Saquon Barkley. As an offensive weapon, there have been few to come out of the draft of his caliber...ever. I think the closest comp to him is LaDainian Tomlinson. I have him as better than Faulk, but Faulk being his floor.
Call me crazy if you want...but this guy is the goods. I rarely have a conviction like this on a guy, he is a future Hall of Famer if he stays healthy, that's the kind of talent he has.
Ive read alot of your prospect takes. You have a good eye for talent. I totally agree with your take on Saquon. He is the best weapon in this draft bar none. And therare 'transformational' player outside of the QB position.
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and the next team you're playing has both Odell Beckham Jr and Saquon Barkley in the lineup. Do you think you're going to get any sleep that week?
I wouldn't want my job security based on having to stop that offense.
Teams sold out vs our passing game and Odell basically daring us to run every game. And between the combination of McAdoos coaching and schematic ineptitude, bad OL play, and mediocre RBs we couldnt do it.
If DG completes the retooling of the OL with a plug and play OL or 2 in the draft and then we draft Saquon....watch out.
Shurmur knows how to utilize multi-purpose backs.
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and the next team you're playing has both Odell Beckham Jr and Saquon Barkley in the lineup. Do you think you're going to get any sleep that week?
I wouldn't want my job security based on having to stop that offense.
Teams sold out vs our passing game and Odell basically daring us to run every game. And between the combination of McAdoos coaching and schematic ineptitude, bad OL play, and mediocre RBs we couldnt do it.
If DG completes the retooling of the OL with a plug and play OL or 2 in the draft and then we draft Saquon....watch out.
Shurmur knows how to utilize multi-purpose backs.
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is what Fox is saying. You don't take receiving backs at #2. You take guys who can carry the rock 25 times AND catch, like Fournette or Gurley.
The Happy Valley Hype Train has been at full steam for this guy. Buyer Beware.
Barkley has proven he can be a 25 carry guy. I think it's less about the carries than it is about touches for him, though.
He is not all hype, either. It shows up on tape, on the stat sheet, and in his measurables.
The Bush comparison is unfair because Bush was a perimeter guy really and he didn't have the body to run between the tackles like Barkley does. Bush was also more of a 10-12 carry guy, and even in college he was a complimentary back, part of a two-headed rush attack. Most will remember the "pound the rock"/between the tackles running back for USC during Bush's big years was LenDale White. Barkley was nearly the entire offense for Penn State the last two seasons in particular.
That USC team had, in addition to Bush and White, Dwayne Jarrett, Steve Smith, and Matt Leinart under center. Defenses could not zero in on one player, they had to play straight up. Not so on the Nittany Lions, who hasn't really had a QB to fear, or much outside at receiver (Godwin in 2016).
IMO there is nothing to beware with when it comes to Saquon Barkley. As an offensive weapon, there have been few to come out of the draft of his caliber...ever. I think the closest comp to him is LaDainian Tomlinson. I have him as better than Faulk, but Faulk being his floor.
Call me crazy if you want...but this guy is the goods. I rarely have a conviction like this on a guy, he is a future Hall of Famer if he stays healthy, that's the kind of talent he has.
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In comment 13913919 HomerJones45 said:
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is what Fox is saying. You don't take receiving backs at #2. You take guys who can carry the rock 25 times AND catch, like Fournette or Gurley.
The Happy Valley Hype Train has been at full steam for this guy. Buyer Beware.
Barkley has proven he can be a 25 carry guy. I think it's less about the carries than it is about touches for him, though.
He is not all hype, either. It shows up on tape, on the stat sheet, and in his measurables.
The Bush comparison is unfair because Bush was a perimeter guy really and he didn't have the body to run between the tackles like Barkley does. Bush was also more of a 10-12 carry guy, and even in college he was a complimentary back, part of a two-headed rush attack. Most will remember the "pound the rock"/between the tackles running back for USC during Bush's big years was LenDale White. Barkley was nearly the entire offense for Penn State the last two seasons in particular.
That USC team had, in addition to Bush and White, Dwayne Jarrett, Steve Smith, and Matt Leinart under center. Defenses could not zero in on one player, they had to play straight up. Not so on the Nittany Lions, who hasn't really had a QB to fear, or much outside at receiver (Godwin in 2016).
IMO there is nothing to beware with when it comes to Saquon Barkley. As an offensive weapon, there have been few to come out of the draft of his caliber...ever. I think the closest comp to him is LaDainian Tomlinson. I have him as better than Faulk, but Faulk being his floor.
Call me crazy if you want...but this guy is the goods. I rarely have a conviction like this on a guy, he is a future Hall of Famer if he stays healthy, that's the kind of talent he has.
Ive read alot of your prospect takes. You have a good eye for talent. I totally agree with your take on Saquon. He is the best weapon in this draft bar none. And therare 'transformational' player outside of the QB position.
Thanks, I really appreciate it.
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Nothing against the talent, but If 4 QBs go in top 5, and Cleveland opts for Chubb, I can see the Colts going Nelson to protect Luck and the Bucs could choose between him and Minkah. It really comes down to the elite talent at a downstream position (RB) or a great talent at a more impactful upstream position (DE, OL, CB)
Funny you mention the Bucs, because in all the talk of trades. This trade seems pretty plausible
The Bucs have pick #7, pick #38, and then nothing until pick #102. Based on past trades I think it'd look something like this:
Bills trade 12, 56, & 96 to the Bucs for 7 (14% premium, a little above typical for a 5-10 pick)
Bills trade 7, 22, and a 2019 2nd to the Giants for 2 (37% premium, a little under the Jets' premium, but above the typical premium from 2011-2017)
Bills would have picks 2, 53, 65, 121, 166, 187 (122.42, down from 167)
Giants would have 7, 22, 34, 66, 69, 108, 139, and the Bills 2019 2nd (192.15, up from 157.85)
Bucs would have 12, 38, 56, 96, 102, 144, 180, 202, and 255 (122.25, up from 111.97)
You can add a couple of additional picks to either side of the trade (maybe an additional 3rd for the Giants), but it functionally gives all 3 teams decent value.
I would have zero interest in trading down without getting a 2019 1st as part of the package. If the Giants are not taking a QB this year, they should at least acquire the draft capital to go up and get one next year. Even if you believe in Webb, I don't think it would be prudent to put all our eggs in that basket at this point.
Look no further than your own post for how much it's costing the Bills to potentially trade into the top 3, and that's WITH two 1st round picks as a starting point. If the Giants are sitting there in a year with a single 1st round pick in the 12-16 range, they'd have to gut multiple years worth of draft capital to move up to get a QB if they wound up needing to.
The "Locked on NFL Draft" podcast did a mock draft where team beat writers made picks for each team. They are praying for the Giants to take Barkley at 2. they are laughing at the Giants if they consider Barkley at 2. The jets beat writers were thrilled to have Rosen land to them. The Broncos beat writers were adamant that the Broncos would never consider Barkley at #5.
Oh yeah, the Broncos couldn’t use Barkley. Just stop. Just because they can draft a QB doesn’t mean they couldn’t use Barkley.
We are talking the best player in the draft, not a project
Barkley at #2 is totally foolish, especially WHEN YOU NEED A QUARTERBACK.
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In comment 13913948 gggggggmen said:
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Nothing against the talent, but If 4 QBs go in top 5, and Cleveland opts for Chubb, I can see the Colts going Nelson to protect Luck and the Bucs could choose between him and Minkah. It really comes down to the elite talent at a downstream position (RB) or a great talent at a more impactful upstream position (DE, OL, CB)
Funny you mention the Bucs, because in all the talk of trades. This trade seems pretty plausible
The Bucs have pick #7, pick #38, and then nothing until pick #102. Based on past trades I think it'd look something like this:
Bills trade 12, 56, & 96 to the Bucs for 7 (14% premium, a little above typical for a 5-10 pick)
Bills trade 7, 22, and a 2019 2nd to the Giants for 2 (37% premium, a little under the Jets' premium, but above the typical premium from 2011-2017)
Bills would have picks 2, 53, 65, 121, 166, 187 (122.42, down from 167)
Giants would have 7, 22, 34, 66, 69, 108, 139, and the Bills 2019 2nd (192.15, up from 157.85)
Bucs would have 12, 38, 56, 96, 102, 144, 180, 202, and 255 (122.25, up from 111.97)
You can add a couple of additional picks to either side of the trade (maybe an additional 3rd for the Giants), but it functionally gives all 3 teams decent value.
I would have zero interest in trading down without getting a 2019 1st as part of the package. If the Giants are not taking a QB this year, they should at least acquire the draft capital to go up and get one next year. Even if you believe in Webb, I don't think it would be prudent to put all our eggs in that basket at this point.
Look no further than your own post for how much it's costing the Bills to potentially trade into the top 3, and that's WITH two 1st round picks as a starting point. If the Giants are sitting there in a year with a single 1st round pick in the 12-16 range, they'd have to gut multiple years worth of draft capital to move up to get a QB if they wound up needing to.
The entire notion of trading back is based on the notion that the Giants are only happy with one QB at 2 (Darnold) and what they'd do if he's not available. Personally, if the medicals check out I'd be fine with Darnold or Rosen, but I'm having a hard time justifying an RB or a guard at 2, and I can't shake the feeling that if Mack, Garrett and Bosa were in this draft, Chubb would comfortably be the fourth best.
I understand the premise. My point is, if they pass on a QB this year (I'm not saying they should or shouldn't - that's irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make), they really have to set themselves up with at least the opportunity to trade up next year for a QB.
Presumably, if we trust Gettleman, we're going to be picking lower and lower as he adds more reliable talent to the roster, which means that every year we delay taking a QB, the price to move up will be more expensive. Look at how much the Bills will have paid to move up to #2 in your own example.
Now imagine how many more picks it would be if they didn't start with two 1st round picks (and they traded away their starting LT in the process as well). That's what we'd be looking at sometime in the near future if we need to move up for a QB. If you don't draft one this year, at least use the #2 pick to acquire the ammunition to trade up to draft one soon.
Any trade down that does not include a 2019 1st round pick is a huge mistake IMO.
And then there is positional value... I.E. RB has virtually no value. For any RB to be successful you have to have a decent line. Once you have a decent line, almost any RB will suffice.
This thread gives plenty of supporting evidence that RBs should not be valued.
You forgot to mention Eli, Engram, Shepard and what should be an improved OLine.
And hopefully a coach who can make use of all the weapons.
People like to say that even though Barkley is the best player in the draft, by a large margin, that he is not worth the #2 pick. Personally, I think this QB class is overhyped and none are worth the #2 pick. So I say take the best player in the draft, even if you are over drafting him. He will not make it past the Browns #4.
Wait until Eli is ready to retire in 2 years and then draft your QB if Webb sucks. You will have a great team to plug a rookie QB into by then. Even if you have to overpay to draft him in 2020.