Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

Schwartz NYP: The whispers around the NYG’s 1st round pick

Defenderdawg : 4/14/2018 3:13 pm
“— It still does not appear likely the Giants will take a quarterback, at least not with the No. 2 pick.”

“The Giants view Saquon Barkley as a near-perfect prospect. They think he’s a better player than Ezekiel Elliott, who went No. 4 to the Cowboys in 2016.”

“There is no doubt North Carolina State defensive end Bradley Chubb is in the mix...”

“Quenton Nelson will not be the pick at No. 2. This is not because the Giants have any reservations with the player — they do not — but it is a matter of positional value. The second-overall pick is too high to take a guard. The Giants do not view Nelson as a viable option to move outside to tackle. If they trade down (this is unlikely), moving to No. 5 to give the Broncos the No. 2 pick, then Nelson makes sense...”
Link - ( New Window )
So it's a QB  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 4/14/2018 3:16 pm : link
.
I'd rather take a pro bowl OG than a pro bowl RB  
Jim in Forest Hills : 4/14/2018 3:18 pm : link
personally. The OG will make every RB better.
Trade back if don't go QB  
ZogZerg : 4/14/2018 3:22 pm : link
..
I think schwartz  
TrueBlue56 : 4/14/2018 3:24 pm : link
Has it right with the giants thinking. It could be one really big smokescreen or it could be true. We will find out soon enough.

What I find interesting is that we really hold the cards to the draft. If one team really covets one quarterback more than the rest and Cleveland doesn't take that quarterback, that team might move heaven and earth to get ahead of the jets.

Nobody knows for sure what we are going to do, we can take so many different routes. We can draft a quarterback, draft Barkley or Chubb. Trade out to a team that wants a quarterback. All of it is in play.

Draft can't get here soon enough
RE: So it's a QB  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/14/2018 3:25 pm : link
In comment 13914117 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
.
Exactly.
RE: I think schwartz  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/14/2018 3:26 pm : link
In comment 13914124 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
Has it right with the giants thinking. It could be one really big smokescreen or it could be true. We will find out soon enough.

What I find interesting is that we really hold the cards to the draft. If one team really covets one quarterback more than the rest and Cleveland doesn't take that quarterback, that team might move heaven and earth to get ahead of the jets.

Nobody knows for sure what we are going to do, we can take so many different routes. We can draft a quarterback, draft Barkley or Chubb. Trade out to a team that wants a quarterback. All of it is in play.

Draft can't get here soon enough

Uh, no. The team with the #1 and #4 picks really holds the cards to the draft.
RE: So it's a QB  
Big Blue '56 : 4/14/2018 3:26 pm : link
In comment 13914117 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
.


😂😂
Cleveland has to think it's Barkley.  
MOOPS : 4/14/2018 3:28 pm : link
Everyone else has to think it's a quarterback.

I'd rather take a guard than a RB at 2  
bigblue12 : 4/14/2018 3:32 pm : link
Just my opinion though
Schwartz...  
Jimmy Googs : 4/14/2018 3:34 pm : link


You can never have too many pass rushers.  
Sarcastic Sam : 4/14/2018 3:37 pm : link
And no one rushes a pass more than Josh Allen.
RE: RE: I think schwartz  
TrueBlue56 : 4/14/2018 3:41 pm : link
In comment 13914127 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13914124 TrueBlue56 said:


Quote:


Has it right with the giants thinking. It could be one really big smokescreen or it could be true. We will find out soon enough.

What I find interesting is that we really hold the cards to the draft. If one team really covets one quarterback more than the rest and Cleveland doesn't take that quarterback, that team might move heaven and earth to get ahead of the jets.

Nobody knows for sure what we are going to do, we can take so many different routes. We can draft a quarterback, draft Barkley or Chubb. Trade out to a team that wants a quarterback. All of it is in play.

Draft can't get here soon enough


Uh, no. The team with the #1 and #4 picks really holds the cards to the draft.


The browns are expected to take a quarterback 1st overall. The jets are taking one 3rd overall. We are right in the middle with teams who may see the quarterback they rated highest sitting there.

What we do or don't do impacts the draft and what team's do
Grinder  
EB222 : 4/14/2018 3:54 pm : link
I'd prefer a RB who consistently turns 3 and 4 yard blocking into 5 and 6
yard gains. Few NFL games are decided by long runs.
I think trade down is about 60-40  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 4/14/2018 4:00 pm : link
I dont see any player besides QB or maybe the potential transformational talent of Barkley at 2.

Thats it. And Barkley could be potentially had via a slight trade down with Jets or Broncos(if Browns don't take Bark-man).

RE: I'd rather take a pro bowl OG than a pro bowl RB  
UConn4523 : 4/14/2018 4:01 pm : link
In comment 13914119 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
personally. The OG will make every RB better.


RBs like Barkley don’t ever hit FA until it’s too late. We can upgrade Guard any off season we choose. I’m taking the dynamic playmaker over a Guard any chance I get.
Trade back to five  
averagejoe : 4/14/2018 4:03 pm : link
if it is not QB. Barkley Chubb or Nelson will be there and use additional picks to rebuild OL/DL .
Trying to get Cleveland to move up  
AnnapolisMike : 4/14/2018 4:04 pm : link
.
RE: You can never have too many pass rushers.  
old man : 4/14/2018 4:05 pm : link
In comment 13914139 Sarcastic Sam said:
Quote:
And no one rushes a pass more than Josh Allen.


True to you're name....quite 👍.
RE: Trade back to five  
bigbluescot : 4/14/2018 4:06 pm : link
In comment 13914153 averagejoe said:
Quote:
if it is not QB. Barkley Chubb or Nelson will be there and use additional picks to rebuild OL/DL .


4,5,6 and even 7 has the potential to end up with one of those three. Although 7 would obviously require 4 QB's to go.
Annopolis Cleveland has little motivation  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 4/14/2018 4:09 pm : link
To move to #2. The prices that will be paid by teams wanting a QB will invariably be higher than teams calling for Barkley.

Jets going QB at 3.

Cleveland gets Barkley at 4. Only way is to convince them WE are definitely taking Barkley unless they buy us out of the spot.
Stop with the transformational talent horseshit  
HomerJones45 : 4/14/2018 4:14 pm : link
If the Giants braintrust really think the King of Happy Valley Hype is better than Elliot we are managed by dimwits. Elliot averaged over 1800 yards and 21 tds rushing his last two years at Ohio State. Mr Tranformational Talent couldn’t run for 60 against either Rutgers or Indiana.

If you are dying for Reggie Bush I am sure there is someone to be had later in the draft.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/14/2018 4:15 pm : link
I think we end up taking Darnold. That's my expectation & hope.
The best part of the Schwartz piece is that...  
M.S. : 4/14/2018 4:16 pm : link

...99.99% of all BBIers already know this shit.


It’s not just about getting a good player  
UberAlias : 4/14/2018 4:22 pm : link
You want a guy who will have a huge impact. I just don’t see that with Nelson or Chubb. Nelson because I don’t see one guard changing games, and Chubb because I see good player, but not game changing pass rusher.

If this is true about passing in a QB, I sure hope it’s for Barkley. I don’t see that kind of impact from the others.
There's still  
BigBluesman : 4/14/2018 4:34 pm : link
Only one way for Cleveland to secure Barkley for sure, and that's #1. I wouldn't discount it. They can get another great player including QB at 4.
RE: There's still  
robbieballs2003 : 4/14/2018 4:50 pm : link
In comment 13914175 BigBluesman said:
Quote:
Only one way for Cleveland to secure Barkley for sure, and that's #1. I wouldn't discount it. They can get another great player including QB at 4.


This isn't a one night stand. It is a marriage. You don't mess around with QB. You take your guy.
RE: Stop with the transformational talent horseshit  
TrueBlue56 : 4/14/2018 4:57 pm : link
In comment 13914163 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
If the Giants braintrust really think the King of Happy Valley Hype is better than Elliot we are managed by dimwits. Elliot averaged over 1800 yards and 21 tds rushing his last two years at Ohio State. Mr Tranformational Talent couldn’t run for 60 against either Rutgers or Indiana.

If you are dying for Reggie Bush I am sure there is someone to be had later in the draft.


Well, this is it. He couldn't run for 60 against Rutgers or indiana, he sucks, he will never improve or have better games. All of the team scouts and draft experts should just go look for another job, because obviously they can't evaluate talent. I mean don't they know that what you do statistically against indiana and Rutgers is the barometer of talent.

Who cares if you are fast, who cares if you can help pass protect and who cares if you have elusiveness. None of that matters, all that matters is 2 Damn dames against indiana and Rutgers.

Thanks homer, we can all be experts now
Barkley all the way  
OBJRoyal : 4/14/2018 4:59 pm : link
The Giants know the best player in the draft. Once Darnold goes to Cleveland, Barkley will be a Giant
RE: RE: There's still  
BigBluesman : 4/14/2018 5:11 pm : link
In comment 13914182 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13914175 BigBluesman said:


Quote:


Only one way for Cleveland to secure Barkley for sure, and that's #1. I wouldn't discount it. They can get another great player including QB at 4.



This isn't a one night stand. It is a marriage. You don't mess around with QB. You take your guy.

Why are so many Giants fans ready for him at #2?
Meanwhile  
AcidTest : 4/14/2018 5:22 pm : link
every else says the Giants have been in love with Darnold since he was in diapers, and will sprint at warp speed to the podium if the Browns are dumb enough to take Allen instead.

Of course the Giants LOVE Barkley. Who doesn't? But nobody, repeat nobody, knows what will happen.

In this order of likelihood, I still think it's:

Darnold.
Trade down.
Barkley.

I do agree with Schwartz that Webb is not a factor about whether they draft a QB.
If not Barkley then Chubb  
Chip : 4/14/2018 5:22 pm : link
Do not take a QB they all have flaws.
RE: If not Barkley then Chubb  
Mike from Ohio : 4/14/2018 5:30 pm : link
In comment 13914206 Chip said:
Quote:
Do not take a QB they all have flaws.


If you would suggest not taking a QB until one with no flaws comes along, what would you sipuggest for the intervening 100 years or so?
Giants don't take a QB for only 2 reasons.  
Ivan15 : 4/14/2018 5:38 pm : link
Either they don't like any of them, or their choice is already picked.What they think of Webb has nothing to do with it.

If they don't pick a QB this year and are confident that they are assembling a competitive team, they won't be in a position to pick high again for at least 2 years. That means they will wait until Eli retires and roll his contract into a huge offer for a Free Agent QB, that will make Cousins' deal look like chump change. So on Friday, April 27, start looking at QB free agents in 2020 and 2021.
I’m thinking Chubb...  
GFAN52 : 4/14/2018 5:41 pm : link
Don’t see the Giants trading down. Darnold is going to be Cleveland’s pick.
Although  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/14/2018 5:43 pm : link
some folks on BBI won't like it, this has been the fairly consistent storyline by those who are at least somewhat reputable.

Those who say no one has a clue have been missing the constant theme for well over the past month: the Giants are going to take Barkley or Chubb with the #2 pick.

We'll see what goes down on draft day, but this is the storyline.
RE: Although  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/14/2018 5:52 pm : link
In comment 13914229 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
some folks on BBI won't like it, this has been the fairly consistent storyline by those who are at least somewhat reputable.

Those who say no one has a clue have been missing the constant theme for well over the past month: the Giants are going to take Barkley or Chubb with the #2 pick.

We'll see what goes down on draft day, but this is the storyline.

Eric - I think that's definitely valid, but no one, even those who have historically been somewhat reputable, have consistently demonstrated access to info since Gettleman took over.

That doesn't mean it won't be Barkley or Chubb - clearly those are two of the best players in the draft and would be easy to identify as candidates even without inside info - but I really don't think any info is reputable, especially this close to the draft. In fact, it's just as likely to be purposeful as it is to be accurate.

One thing you're 100% correct on though... we'll see what goes down on draft day.
Consistent information  
TrueBlue56 : 4/14/2018 6:08 pm : link
Quote:
Eric - I think that's definitely valid, but no one, even those who have historically been somewhat reputable, have consistently demonstrated access to info since Gettleman took over.


How much consistent information can anyone have when gettleman hasn't even been here for 6 months. We all know the 2 hackjobs writeres at the daily news never know anything, but Paul schwartz does not have a track record of writing BS. Even in this article, he is not stating anything as fact. It is best guess work, which is what most of us are doing.

Gatorade/TrueBlue  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/14/2018 6:15 pm : link
Gettleman isn't new to the organization. And more importantly, he has little ability to control leaks. The Giants are a family owned business and there are a lot of Mara and Tisch relatives out there and a lot of employees. People talk.

Every year I hear the "smokescreen" argument, but more often it seems as if Vacciano, Scwhartz, Garafolo, etc. have a pretty good idea of the team's thinking.

That all said, it could be different this year. If we take a QB, in my mind, they did a great job of misdirection.
Gun to my head  
Sy'56 : 4/14/2018 6:26 pm : link
3 options on what will happen

A) Barkley

B) Rosen/Darnold

C) Trade down


I am going with C
RE: Gatorade/TrueBlue  
Strahan91 : 4/14/2018 6:27 pm : link
In comment 13914258 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Gettleman isn't new to the organization. And more importantly, he has little ability to control leaks. The Giants are a family owned business and there are a lot of Mara and Tisch relatives out there and a lot of employees. People talk.

Every year I hear the "smokescreen" argument, but more often it seems as if Vacciano, Scwhartz, Garafolo, etc. have a pretty good idea of the team's thinking.

That all said, it could be different this year. If we take a QB, in my mind, they did a great job of misdirection.


Only Schwartz has been steadfast about the Giants not drafting a QB. Raanan thinks it's Darnold if he's there or Barkley with Rosen as a dark horse. He has said before he does not think they like Chubb enough to take at 2.

Vacchiano has said Darnold if he's there, and then he thinks Chubb if he had to guess but wouldn't count out Rosen either. Schwartz has historically been far less reputable than either one of those two, he just happens to repeat himself over and over again so it can seem like that's all the noise coming out of east rutherford.

It's extremely difficult to tell who actually has sources and who's just repeating what others say in the hopes of claiming some of the credit. My best guess is that Raanan and Vacchiano hear things, Garafalo too but doesn't share much but most of what we hear is pure speculation based on DG's public comments. I'd expect that to change as we get closer to the draft but it's 2 weeks out still.

Also worth mentioning all of those guys totally whiffed last year. Hitdog was the only person I'd seen even mention Engram as someone the Giants liked. Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen him chime in at all this year other than to say that the Giants do like Chubb (responding to a poster calling it a smokescreen)
Gettleman has never traded down before...  
Nysportsfn13 : 4/14/2018 6:32 pm : link
He's certainly not going to do it now where there are reportedly 3 elite prospects that are of a need without even being a QB.. Barkley, Nelson, Chubb. unless he can get the Broncos to trade with him at 5, then he gets his cake and eats it too, thinking he's gonna trade outta the top 10 in this draft is foolish.
RE: Gettleman has never traded down before...  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 4/14/2018 6:43 pm : link
In comment 13914276 Nysportsfn13 said:
Quote:
He's certainly not going to do it now where there are reportedly 3 elite prospects that are of a need without even being a QB.. Barkley, Nelson, Chubb. unless he can get the Broncos to trade with him at 5, then he gets his cake and eats it too, thinking he's gonna trade outta the top 10 in this draft is foolish.


This is also a very unique situation. Picking at #2 doesnt happen often to quality organizations. Secondly, this is a unique draft in which there are 3-4 QBs multiple teams believe have franchise ability. That makes our real estate very valuable. If we have a conviction on one of them and we dont think Webb is the heir apparent then we should ineqivocably stay at #2 and take one. If not someone will pay us higher value for that #2 spot then what we would pick there (unless we truly think Barkley is the next Barry Sanders with Marshall Faulk receiving ability).

So a trade down very likely maximizes value if you are not going QB.
RE: So it's a QB  
bradshaw44 : 4/14/2018 6:45 pm : link
In comment 13914117 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
.


Yup.
RE: Stop with the transformational talent horseshit  
Eman11 : 4/14/2018 6:50 pm : link
In comment 13914163 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
If the Giants braintrust really think the King of Happy Valley Hype is better than Elliot we are managed by dimwits. Elliot averaged over 1800 yards and 21 tds rushing his last two years at Ohio State. Mr Tranformational Talent couldn’t run for 60 against either Rutgers or Indiana.

If you are dying for Reggie Bush I am sure there is someone to be had later in the draft.


How did Fournette do against Bama? Worse than Barkley did in the games you mentioned yet he's still a great back. Sure Bama has a lot better D than Rutgers or Indiana but the point remains the same. A team can sell out to stop any RB but it doesn't make that back a bad player.

Oh and Barkley did score two TDs in that game vs OSU so not a bad day overall. I'd take two TD's on a bad day anytime.
RE: RE: There's still  
bradshaw44 : 4/14/2018 6:51 pm : link
In comment 13914182 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13914175 BigBluesman said:


Quote:


Only one way for Cleveland to secure Barkley for sure, and that's #1. I wouldn't discount it. They can get another great player including QB at 4.



This isn't a one night stand. It is a marriage. You don't mess around with QB. You take your guy.


Not saying this is the case, but if Cleveland has nearly equal grades on at least 3 QBs they may employ the strategy he’s suggesting.
RE: Stop with the transformational talent horseshit  
GoBlue6599 : 4/14/2018 6:59 pm : link
In comment 13914163 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
If the Giants braintrust really think the King of Happy Valley Hype is better than Elliot we are managed by dimwits. Elliot averaged over 1800 yards and 21 tds rushing his last two years at Ohio State. Mr Tranformational Talent couldn’t run for 60 against either Rutgers or Indiana.

If you are dying for Reggie Bush I am sure there is someone to be had later in the draft.

This ..
It's been QB  
battttles : 4/14/2018 7:01 pm : link
Since the day Shurmur was hired. As it should be. You're all overthinking this.
RE: Gun to my head  
GFAN52 : 4/14/2018 7:01 pm : link
In comment 13914267 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
3 options on what will happen

A) Barkley

B) Rosen/Darnold

C) Trade down


I am going with C


Sy, why aren't you thinking Chubb is an option?
RE: There's still  
the mike : 4/14/2018 7:08 pm : link
In comment 13914175 BigBluesman said:
Quote:
Only one way for Cleveland to secure Barkley for sure, and that's #1. I wouldn't discount it. They can get another great player including QB at 4.


I think this is more likely than people think...
RE: RE: Gun to my head  
Sy'56 : 4/14/2018 7:08 pm : link
In comment 13914303 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 13914267 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


3 options on what will happen

A) Barkley

B) Rosen/Darnold

C) Trade down


I am going with C



Sy, why aren't you thinking Chubb is an option?


If I had option D, sure
RE: Gun to my head  
the mike : 4/14/2018 7:12 pm : link
In comment 13914267 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
3 options on what will happen

A) Barkley

B) Rosen/Darnold

C) Trade down


I am going with C


Sy, does this assume Browns take a quarterback? What if they take Barkley with #1?
RE: Stop with the transformational talent horseshit  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 4/14/2018 7:25 pm : link
In comment 13914163 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
If the Giants braintrust really think the King of Happy Valley Hype is better than Elliot we are managed by dimwits. Elliot averaged over 1800 yards and 21 tds rushing his last two years at Ohio State. Mr Tranformational Talent couldn’t run for 60 against either Rutgers or Indiana.

Elliot played on a great team. Barkley was the team. All the experts seem to think Barkley is the best player in the draft. But whatever...
Browns arent putzing with the QB pick  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 4/14/2018 7:27 pm : link
They brought in 3 guys (the GM, the assistant GM and a consultant) who are all QB guys.

They likely have a conviction on one and will go with that guy #1. If they go Barkley its very possible 2 QBs go 2-3 and theyd have the 3rd QB off the board.

Dont see that happening when they will get either the top non QB at 4 or 2nd top non QB (should we stay at 2 and go non QB)

I hope we take Barkley  
Jint Fan in Buc Land : 4/14/2018 7:43 pm : link
If only so i can watch all the haters have to slurp him for the next ten years
RE: Stop with the transformational talent horseshit  
djm : 4/14/2018 7:52 pm : link
In comment 13914163 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
If the Giants braintrust really think the King of Happy Valley Hype is better than Elliot we are managed by dimwits. Elliot averaged over 1800 yards and 21 tds rushing his last two years at Ohio State. Mr Tranformational Talent couldn’t run for 60 against either Rutgers or Indiana.

If you are dying for Reggie Bush I am sure there is someone to be had later in the draft.


No
RE: RE: There's still  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/14/2018 7:57 pm : link
In comment 13914308 the mike said:
Quote:
In comment 13914175 BigBluesman said:


Quote:


Only one way for Cleveland to secure Barkley for sure, and that's #1. I wouldn't discount it. They can get another great player including QB at 4.



I think this is more likely than people think...

Based on what?
RE: Gatorade/TrueBlue  
ThatLimerickGuy : 4/14/2018 8:01 pm : link
In comment 13914258 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Gettleman isn't new to the organization. And more importantly, he has little ability to control leaks. The Giants are a family owned business and there are a lot of Mara and Tisch relatives out there and a lot of employees. People talk.

Every year I hear the "smokescreen" argument, but more often it seems as if Vacciano, Scwhartz, Garafolo, etc. have a pretty good idea of the team's thinking.

That all said, it could be different this year. If we take a QB, in my mind, they did a great job of misdirection.


What about the fact that Gettleman left the organization and realized like everyone else what a sieve of information the Giants are and only took the job under the condition that he not discuss the plans with Mara or Tisch until the day before the draft?
Wow. The Giants think exactly like Schwarz  
Vanzetti : 4/14/2018 8:05 pm : link
They should have made him GM. They are whispering stuff he has been clamoring for for months.
RE: RE: RE: There's still  
the mike : 4/14/2018 8:06 pm : link
In comment 13914348 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13914308 the mike said:


Quote:


In comment 13914175 BigBluesman said:


Quote:


Only one way for Cleveland to secure Barkley for sure, and that's #1. I wouldn't discount it. They can get another great player including QB at 4.



I think this is more likely than people think...


Based on what?


Sy's grade.
The idea that our beats have a scoop is comical  
Jimmy Googs : 4/14/2018 8:26 pm : link
What did you all learn last year?
i Think  
English Alaister : 4/14/2018 8:27 pm : link
Darnold Is still in play. He's the only QB that is. After that Barkley or Chubb.
RE: RE: RE: RE: There's still  
ThatLimerickGuy : 4/14/2018 8:28 pm : link
In comment 13914356 the mike said:
Quote:
In comment 13914348 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13914308 the mike said:


Quote:


In comment 13914175 BigBluesman said:


Quote:


Only one way for Cleveland to secure Barkley for sure, and that's #1. I wouldn't discount it. They can get another great player including QB at 4.



I think this is more likely than people think...


Based on what?



Sy's grade.


Sy's grade has about as much to do who the Browns will pick as the price of milk at the corner deli.

I get it, Sy does a great job digesting and reporting information here that most of us would be far too busy to go through on our own but

A) he's not anywhere nearly as invested as an NFL GM.

B) he's not anywhere nearly as qualified as even a low level NFL scout to evaluate talent.

Can we stop with this?
That’s actually not true Limerick  
Vanzetti : 4/14/2018 8:41 pm : link
Sy and Dave-te are both professionals who have been doing this for a long time

Their insisghts are invaluable
RE: That’s actually not true Limerick  
UConn4523 : 4/14/2018 8:49 pm : link
In comment 13914372 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Sy and Dave-te are both professionals who have been doing this for a long time

Their insisghts are invaluable


Haha. Was thinking the same when I read his post.

Sy’s opinion is by no means the end all be all, he’d be the first to tell you, but I’m going to trust him over 99.9% of BBI when t comes to scouting.
Seems like an unnecessary shot at Sy  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/14/2018 8:54 pm : link
Who's a lot more qualified to talk about what he does than a significant percentage of us.
RE: RE: RE: RE: There's still  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/14/2018 9:07 pm : link
In comment 13914356 the mike said:
Quote:
In comment 13914348 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13914308 the mike said:


Quote:


In comment 13914175 BigBluesman said:


Quote:


Only one way for Cleveland to secure Barkley for sure, and that's #1. I wouldn't discount it. They can get another great player including QB at 4.



I think this is more likely than people think...


Based on what?



Sy's grade.

Sy is awesome, and I always look to read everything he posts, but he's not building out Cleveland's draft board. And that's not to say that Cleveland shouldn't consider Barkley at #1, but there are also factors that extend beyond the draft board itself.

It's incredibly unlikely that the Browns pick anything other than a QB at #1 overall, IMO.
I would draft Sy  
Southern Man : 4/14/2018 9:14 pm : link
ahead of the Limerick Guy
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: There's still  
the mike : 4/14/2018 9:14 pm : link
In comment 13914368 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13914356 the mike said:


Quote:


In comment 13914348 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13914308 the mike said:


Quote:


In comment 13914175 BigBluesman said:


Quote:


Only one way for Cleveland to secure Barkley for sure, and that's #1. I wouldn't discount it. They can get another great player including QB at 4.



I think this is more likely than people think...


Based on what?



Sy's grade.



Sy's grade has about as much to do who the Browns will pick as the price of milk at the corner deli.

I get it, Sy does a great job digesting and reporting information here that most of us would be far too busy to go through on our own but

A) he's not anywhere nearly as invested as an NFL GM.

B) he's not anywhere nearly as qualified as even a low level NFL scout to evaluate talent.

Can we stop with this?


I can assure you that Sy has just as much qualification to grade these players as any of the "insiders" that you seem to revere - please do share with BBI who you follow if not Sy? Frankly, Sy's grading reports and comparable players are fantastic and one of the primary reasons I am here and have been promoting BBI like crazy to anyone who will listen...

Truth be told, I for one could care less what people think WILL happen since we will know shortly... And truthfully, no one really knows - not even the GMs themselves who will not be sure until they are on the clock given the fluidity of the process...

What I do care about is formulating a credible and cogent point of view as to what SHOULD happen. We have seen an endless parade of idiotic draft selections by NFL GMs who have been very "invested" in the process over the years... led by our former GM whose performance over this past decade has been downright abysmal...

RE: I would draft Sy  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/14/2018 9:21 pm : link
In comment 13914393 Southern Man said:
Quote:
ahead of the Limerick Guy
+💯
Giants are taking one of  
mikeygiants : 4/14/2018 9:25 pm : link
Darnold or Allen, whoever is left.
I'm still sticking with Chubb over Barkley...  
GFAN52 : 4/14/2018 9:27 pm : link
with Cleveland going with Darnold.
'whispers'...  
Torrag : 4/14/2018 10:06 pm : link
...in other words he just made up whatever narrative about the Giants pick he felt like because he's get paid to inform the fans of something, anything, whether it's factual or not.
RE: RE: I would draft Sy  
ThatLimerickGuy : 4/14/2018 10:12 pm : link
In comment 13914397 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13914393 Southern Man said:


Quote:


ahead of the Limerick Guy

+💯


In no world am I even in the same stratosphere as Sy when it comes to evaluating college talent.

I'm not attacking Sy at all. Re read what I wrote I am a big fan of what he does.

The response was due to a narrative that has been created around here that Sy is a top tier evaluator in the context of professionals. As for BBI, he is the king, in the world of real scouts and GMs I don't know how what he does compares to the pros. That's not a knock on the guy at all it's the difference between a DYI guy doing a home remodel or a contractor.
If the Brown take Barkley ...  
Manny in CA : 4/14/2018 10:26 pm : link

Just because he's the best player in the entire draft ...

That puts Denver in a bind - three "QB needy" ahead of them (Giants, Jets, Browns). At that point, the Giants are in the "catbird" seat. That's when we strike -

Our 2nd overall for their 1st (5th overall), 2nd (40th overall), 3rd (71st overall) and their 2019 1st round pick.

Art that point, I 'd go get Nelson and parlay the rest of the draft to completely fix the line and pick up DR'C's replacement and a big receiver to compliment OBJ.
RE: RE: RE: I would draft Sy  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/14/2018 10:38 pm : link
In comment 13914443 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13914397 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13914393 Southern Man said:


Quote:


ahead of the Limerick Guy

+💯



In no world am I even in the same stratosphere as Sy when it comes to evaluating college talent.

I'm not attacking Sy at all. Re read what I wrote I am a big fan of what he does.

The response was due to a narrative that has been created around here that Sy is a top tier evaluator in the context of professionals. As for BBI, he is the king, in the world of real scouts and GMs I don't know how what he does compares to the pros. That's not a knock on the guy at all it's the difference between a DYI guy doing a home remodel or a contractor.

Sy IS a professional scout. That's the part you're not understanding.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I would draft Sy  
the mike : 4/14/2018 10:44 pm : link
In comment 13914471 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13914443 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


In comment 13914397 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13914393 Southern Man said:


Quote:


ahead of the Limerick Guy

+💯



In no world am I even in the same stratosphere as Sy when it comes to evaluating college talent.

I'm not attacking Sy at all. Re read what I wrote I am a big fan of what he does.

The response was due to a narrative that has been created around here that Sy is a top tier evaluator in the context of professionals. As for BBI, he is the king, in the world of real scouts and GMs I don't know how what he does compares to the pros. That's not a knock on the guy at all it's the difference between a DYI guy doing a home remodel or a contractor.


Sy IS a professional scout. That's the part you're not understanding.


And is as good as anyone I have followed - professional or non-professional...
'Sy IS a professional scout'...  
Torrag : 4/14/2018 10:48 pm : link
LOL. I like Sy and his opinions are informative but working for a non NFL related draft publication isn't being a scout imo.
RE: RE: Gatorade/TrueBlue  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/14/2018 10:59 pm : link
In comment 13914350 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13914258 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Gettleman isn't new to the organization. And more importantly, he has little ability to control leaks. The Giants are a family owned business and there are a lot of Mara and Tisch relatives out there and a lot of employees. People talk.

Every year I hear the "smokescreen" argument, but more often it seems as if Vacciano, Scwhartz, Garafolo, etc. have a pretty good idea of the team's thinking.

That all said, it could be different this year. If we take a QB, in my mind, they did a great job of misdirection.



What about the fact that Gettleman left the organization and realized like everyone else what a sieve of information the Giants are and only took the job under the condition that he not discuss the plans with Mara or Tisch until the day before the draft?


You honestly think John Mara isn't intimately involved with the #2 pick? Hell, he and Tisch have been taking these prospects out to dinner.

Gettleman was fired by the Panthers and is at retirement age. Was there even another team pursuing him?
2018 draft  
Colin@gbn : 4/14/2018 11:08 pm : link
Evening guys: Interesting discussion. Delusional. But interesting. Indeed, people probably need to get a grip. This is not Madden football; it's not fantasy football. Its the ultra-conservative QB-driven NFL. The Browns are NOT going to take Saquon Barkley with the #1 pick this year. The have gotten 'cute' with QBs the past couple of years and all it got them was an 0-16 record. For all intents and purposes they've even gone on record that are taking a QB at #1. We are also hearing from our sources that they aren't even necessarily a lock to take Barkley at #4 as they feel Chubb would add more immediately and they can find a RB to pair with Carlos Hyde later in the draft.

Will find out for sure what the Giants do at #2 on the 26th but the one thing one can say with some certainty is that the value at #2 are the QBs. Either you take one for yourself or you trade out to whichever of Denver, Miami or Buffalo offers the most.

In that context I just don't see the Giants choice coming down to BPA. They are a professional NFL team and their draft plans, especially with the second pick overall, are going to be driven by a strategic plan. Either they feel they can win with ELi over the next 2-3 years - and that is certainly a possibility - and trade out and maximize what they can add at other positions, or they don't think Eli has much left in the tank and they take advantage of the fact that at #2 they'll be looking at the best QB prospects they are likely to see over the next 5 years.

Of course, it is also possible that the Giants have decided they don't see the value themselves in this year's top QB prospects, and we'll find out for sure in 12 days or so, but almost all the evidence out there suggests that is likely not the case. On the one hand, you have a half dozen other teams out there with top 15 picks that need an upgrade at QB and all appear to view this year's prospects at the position to be worthy of a top 2-3 pick. Maybe the Giants are an outlier and think otherwise but that would be a major stretch. At the same time, no team in the NFL has devoted more resources to checking out the QBs over the past 3-4 weeks than the Giants. And given that checking out players at pro days, private workouts and on-site visits is really about dotting the i's and crossing the t's from your scouting and coaching staffs' game day tape grades one can make a pretty good assumption that the Giants also have high grades on those players otherwise you don't waste your time.

The one curious aspect of the whole business is that after putting all those resources into checking out the QBs at their pro days etc. the 'leaks' that seem to be coming out of Giants' HQ are along the lines of "QBs; we don't want no stinking QB!!"

Let me add one other general comment before I throw out a little scuttlebutt: if you haven't decided on what you are doing with the second pick by now with just 12 days to go, you have some organizational issues whether you are a new admin or not! Same with the Browns.

Not sure what to make of it, but I had a source who is reasonably well connected suggest that what we may be seeing is a little intrigue at the top of the board. The Browns have long settled on Darnold, but believe that both the Giants and Jets want Rosen. What they'd really like to do is force the Giants to flip picks 1-2 just to make sure that the Browns don't flip the 1-3 picks with the Jets. The Browns aren't going to do that but they'd like the Giants to fear that they might so they have dangled the idea that they still haven't decided between Darnold and ALLen. Once the Browns say they have settled on a guy - and its not going to be Rosen - the likelihood they might deal goes away. Meanwhile, the Giants are doing everything they can to downplay their interest in any QB. Time will tell!
Great point by Eric  
Marty866b : 4/14/2018 11:08 pm : link
"Gettleman is at retirement age". Does Gettleman have less patience to rebuild because he's older then most GMS? Is that one of the reasons why we are reading that the Giants are going to pass on a quarterback though we definitely need one in a year or two? Would Gettleman's age be a reason to go for the player with the most immediate impact,Barkley? I think these are legitimate questions.
RE: 2018 draft  
GFAN52 : 4/14/2018 11:15 pm : link
In comment 13914495 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
Evening guys: Interesting discussion. Delusional. But interesting. Indeed, people probably need to get a grip. This is not Madden football; it's not fantasy football. Its the ultra-conservative QB-driven NFL. The Browns are NOT going to take Saquon Barkley with the #1 pick this year. The have gotten 'cute' with QBs the past couple of years and all it got them was an 0-16 record. For all intents and purposes they've even gone on record that are taking a QB at #1. We are also hearing from our sources that they aren't even necessarily a lock to take Barkley at #4 as they feel Chubb would add more immediately and they can find a RB to pair with Carlos Hyde later in the draft.

Will find out for sure what the Giants do at #2 on the 26th but the one thing one can say with some certainty is that the value at #2 are the QBs. Either you take one for yourself or you trade out to whichever of Denver, Miami or Buffalo offers the most.

In that context I just don't see the Giants choice coming down to BPA. They are a professional NFL team and their draft plans, especially with the second pick overall, are going to be driven by a strategic plan. Either they feel they can win with ELi over the next 2-3 years - and that is certainly a possibility - and trade out and maximize what they can add at other positions, or they don't think Eli has much left in the tank and they take advantage of the fact that at #2 they'll be looking at the best QB prospects they are likely to see over the next 5 years.

Of course, it is also possible that the Giants have decided they don't see the value themselves in this year's top QB prospects, and we'll find out for sure in 12 days or so, but almost all the evidence out there suggests that is likely not the case. On the one hand, you have a half dozen other teams out there with top 15 picks that need an upgrade at QB and all appear to view this year's prospects at the position to be worthy of a top 2-3 pick. Maybe the Giants are an outlier and think otherwise but that would be a major stretch. At the same time, no team in the NFL has devoted more resources to checking out the QBs over the past 3-4 weeks than the Giants. And given that checking out players at pro days, private workouts and on-site visits is really about dotting the i's and crossing the t's from your scouting and coaching staffs' game day tape grades one can make a pretty good assumption that the Giants also have high grades on those players otherwise you don't waste your time.

The one curious aspect of the whole business is that after putting all those resources into checking out the QBs at their pro days etc. the 'leaks' that seem to be coming out of Giants' HQ are along the lines of "QBs; we don't want no stinking QB!!"

Let me add one other general comment before I throw out a little scuttlebutt: if you haven't decided on what you are doing with the second pick by now with just 12 days to go, you have some organizational issues whether you are a new admin or not! Same with the Browns.

Not sure what to make of it, but I had a source who is reasonably well connected suggest that what we may be seeing is a little intrigue at the top of the board. The Browns have long settled on Darnold, but believe that both the Giants and Jets want Rosen. What they'd really like to do is force the Giants to flip picks 1-2 just to make sure that the Browns don't flip the 1-3 picks with the Jets. The Browns aren't going to do that but they'd like the Giants to fear that they might so they have dangled the idea that they still haven't decided between Darnold and ALLen. Once the Browns say they have settled on a guy - and its not going to be Rosen - the likelihood they might deal goes away. Meanwhile, the Giants are doing everything they can to downplay their interest in any QB. Time will tell!


Sounds like way to much speculating and intrigue to me. I agree with you though I believe the Browns are locked onto Darnold.
NFL re tirement age  
Colin@gbn : 4/14/2018 11:52 pm : link
Marty et al: Fact is unless I am mistaken there is actually no retirement age in the NFL. And DG comes across as healthy and energetic such that there is no reason to doubt that he's going to be around for 4-5 years at the least. He'd also likely prefer a legacy in which he is remembered as the guy who built the Giants 2020s championship teams as opposed to someone who got the Giants into a couple of playoffs in the late 2010s.

Its also probably true that Mara's involvement in making the 2nd pick is to ask DG when he tells him who the pick is going to be is to ask "is everybody on board with the decision" and he's going to want an honest answer.

In fact one can imagine a scenario in which DG told Mara that 'we have decided on player X' that DG also says something like "and this kid is going to be the face of the franchise for the next 10-15 years if everything works out and we think you and Steve should sit down with him and get to know him to confirm that you are indeed going to be comfortable with in that role." No names mentioned but ...
"The  
AcidTest : 4/15/2018 12:00 am : link
Browns have long settled on Darnold, but believe that both the Giants and Jets want Rosen."

How could the Browns have any idea who the Giant or Jets will pick? I wouldn't at all be surprised if the Giants take Rosen, although I would be surprised if they traded up to do so. But nobody knows what they will do.
RE: RE: That’s actually not true Limerick  
DonQuixote : 4/15/2018 12:16 am : link
In comment 13914380 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13914372 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


Sy and Dave-te are both professionals who have been doing this for a long time

Their insisghts are invaluable



Haha. Was thinking the same when I read his post.

Sy’s opinion is by no means the end all be all, he’d be the first to tell you, but I’m going to trust him over 99.9% of BBI when t comes to scouting.


Posting something more meaningful than the opinions of us fans, that’s a low bar. We are fans...

Sy is a guy that seems to put time in and so he knows more than I, but too many on this site treat it as gospel. Sy might even agree. Remember, scouts and gms are disagreeing and working it all out in the war room. Draft is a crapshoot, his is one guy. Glad he shares his views here.
RE: Although  
DonQuixote : 4/15/2018 12:18 am : link
In comment 13914229 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
some folks on BBI won't like it, this has been the fairly consistent storyline by those who are at least somewhat reputable.

Those who say no one has a clue have been missing the constant theme for well over the past month: the Giants are going to take Barkley or Chubb with the #2 pick.

We'll see what goes down on draft day, but this is the storyline.


I’d like to see the giants take a QB but where there’s smoke there’s fire. I won’t be disappointed either way.
thinking ain't knowing  
Colin@gbn : 4/15/2018 12:23 am : link
Acid: I know I shouldn't have added that bit because I think that the rest of the stuff i was saying was far more relevant but don't get mad at me as I'm just passing on a possible explanation a pretty reliable league source told me to possibly explain why the Giants were all over the QBs during the pro day/private visit phase but have since have acted like they have never even heard of those guys. And the Browns don't have to know anything. All they have to do is think that the Giants are likely heavily invested in Rosen (which any idiot not in denial should be able to figure out for themselves if they were paying attention) to at least try for a flip. in tbhe end nothing is going to happen, but there is nothing to be lost for the browns to give it a try.
RE: RE: RE: I would draft Sy  
DonQuixote : 4/15/2018 12:26 am : link
In comment 13914443 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13914397 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13914393 Southern Man said:


Quote:


ahead of the Limerick Guy

+💯



In no world am I even in the same stratosphere as Sy when it comes to evaluating college talent.

I'm not attacking Sy at all. Re read what I wrote I am a big fan of what he does.

The response was due to a narrative that has been created around here that Sy is a top tier evaluator in the context of professionals. As for BBI, he is the king, in the world of real scouts and GMs I don't know how what he does compares to the pros. That's not a knock on the guy at all it's the difference between a DYI guy doing a home remodel or a contractor.


Plus, this site is just STARVED for information, and sy provides that. His are meaningful contributions to this site. But let’s not get too crazy. People disagree on draft picks and evaluations.
Few things I’ll bring up...  
Toastt34 : 4/15/2018 12:26 am : link
1. I think Eli is done in NY after this year. His production and the $ owed to him don’t line up especially with OBJ and Collins coming up.

2. Part of the appeal in hiring Shurmur, I believe, aside from having this team finally score 30 points in a game, was getting his hands on a potential franchise QB. Yes Barkley would also help but you only make the RB pick if you have your QB IMO. We can all continue to argue if we have ours. I don’t think we do.

3. People want to negate next year’s QB class, but these GMs look at that. Next years class doesn’t present the prospects this year’s does.

I’m not here to say they are definitely drafting a QB, but just a counterpoint to those who are dismissing the idea. I think they should.

Also, is Gettleman’s age really a factor in the long-term future of this team?? How old was Accorsi when he drafted Eli? He was towards the end of his career but made that pick for the good of the franchise. I expect the same from DG whether it’s a QB or not, he’ll do what he thinks is best for the Giants.
RE: thinking ain't knowing  
DonQuixote : 4/15/2018 12:39 am : link
In comment 13914521 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
Acid: I know I shouldn't have added that bit because I think that the rest of the stuff i was saying was far more relevant but don't get mad at me as I'm just passing on a possible explanation a pretty reliable league source told me to possibly explain why the Giants were all over the QBs during the pro day/private visit phase but have since have acted like they have never even heard of those guys. And the Browns don't have to know anything. All they have to do is think that the Giants are likely heavily invested in Rosen (which any idiot not in denial should be able to figure out for themselves if they were paying attention) to at least try for a flip. in tbhe end nothing is going to happen, but there is nothing to be lost for the browns to give it a try.


With that, the browns might end up with their third favorite QB. In every hiring process I’ve been in, which is lots over decade, things are never equal. The browns have a qb in mind, they don’t know what the other teams really want to do and they are not going to lose their guy oby trading down. Trading out of 4 seems more likely for the Browns. Just my opinion man.
Colin  
jtgiants : 4/15/2018 12:53 am : link
I respect you but your going to look pretty bad when giants don't go qb.
I’ll throw something out here also.  
Toastt34 : 4/15/2018 12:55 am : link
Just a gut feeling but I wouldn’t be surprised if Baker is in more consideration for the top pick than what’s been reported.
Colin  
jtgiants : 4/15/2018 12:55 am : link
The only qb giants take is darnold. Maybe.There is a far greater chance they take Barkley or Chub then Rosen
The only speculation I've seen...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/15/2018 12:55 am : link
That I can't in any way find credible is the Browns picking Saquon at 1. This would be such a ridiculous move imo given their signing of Hyde.

Right behind that would be them picking him at four.

Finally, the idea that the Browns know they want either Darnold or Allen but because they're convinced the NYG want Rosen they risk losing their QB to trade down.

All other possibilities seem credible to me right now.
Toast  
jtgiants : 4/15/2018 12:57 am : link
Your wrong on one thing. Eli plays well this year he finishes his contract. That I can say w almost 100% certainty
Jt- I know you have great insight so I’ll take your word...  
Toastt34 : 4/15/2018 1:18 am : link
But what happens if he’s the same Eli he’s been the last two years? That seems just as likely if not more than a return to vintage Eli. Where do they go then...are they that confident in Webb??
Recent Mike Silver twitter exchange  
shyster : 4/15/2018 1:30 am : link
Silver has long been close with Hue Jackson and there is reason to believe he has developed other Browns connections.

Quote:

@MikeSilver Apr 12

I would caution anyone making assumptions about which player(s) the Browns would likely take at 1 and 4 overall. Long way to go, lot of misinformation out there. I'm not allowed to tip picks but... stay tuned


Quote:


Replying to @MikeSilver @egoldie80
I think 1 is already decided. This narrative that they are undecided is crap. I do think anything could happen with 4, including a trade.

@MikeSilver Apr 12

"I think"


Quote:


@jasonwilson2121
Replying to @MikeSilver
Well, we all “think” unless we work for the Browns, right?


@MikeSilver Apr 12

Hierarchy:
1) Work for the Browns
2) Talk to people who work for the Browns
3) "I think"



stay tuned - ( New Window )
Toast  
jtgiants : 4/15/2018 1:31 am : link
Fair point. All I can tell you is if eli plays well this year he will be back to finish his contract. I think Eli bounces back well see. My point is, if you want a qb, are you ok w him sitting 2 years? I'm not so I'm all in on Barkley or Chubb or trade back
RE: I'd rather take a pro bowl OG than a pro bowl RB  
chopperhatch : 4/15/2018 2:05 am : link
In comment 13914119 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
personally. The OG will make every RB better.


This is just silly. Based on Barkley's potential, he is not JUST a pro bowl RB.

You would take Steve Hutchison over LaDainian Tomlinson? Larry Allen ove Marshall Faulk?

The idea that an All World Guard is the better pick than a RB with Barkley's abilities is fucking adorable.

No offense Jim. But come on.
RE: 'Sy IS a professional scout'...  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/15/2018 2:14 am : link
In comment 13914484 Torrag said:
Quote:
LOL. I like Sy and his opinions are informative but working for a non NFL related draft publication isn't being a scout imo.

Does he get paid professionally to do scouting for a service that NFL teams use?

He's a professional scout.
RE: Colin  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/15/2018 2:31 am : link
In comment 13914526 jtgiants said:
Quote:
I respect you but your going to look pretty bad when giants don't go qb.

Any worse than you will if they do?

At least Colin had the good sense to present his position with the possibility of other outcomes existing.
RE: Toast  
Milton : 4/15/2018 2:41 am : link
In comment 13914533 jtgiants said:
Quote:
Fair point. All I can tell you is if eli plays well this year he will be back to finish his contract. I think Eli bounces back well see. My point is, if you want a qb, are you ok w him sitting 2 years? I'm not
I would be perfectly okay with the QB sitting for two years if Eli is playing well and the Giants are in contention. I'd also be okay with the Giants trading Eli in 2019 if he plays well in 2018 (much like Alex Smith being traded after playing well in 2017). What I'd like to avoid is giving 38-year or 39-year old Eli a three or four year extension to the tune of $30M/year because he and the Giants are playing well enough to compete, but not well enough to win a Super Bowl, and that's the going rate for franchise QBs.

If a franchise quality QB is available, it makes both football sense and salary cap sense, no matter how well Eli plays.
As I've said several times...  
Milton : 4/15/2018 2:43 am : link
It's not mutually exclusive to believe in Eli and also want the Giants to draft a QB at #2. There is very solid logic to it.
Gatorade  
jtgiants : 4/15/2018 3:02 am : link
I've stated my opinion very clearly multiple times. I've been very clear that is possible I'm wrong. I've also clearly stated they could take Darnold. Either way I've been very detailed on this
Milton  
jtgiants : 4/15/2018 3:04 am : link
That's where we disagree. Its a huge waste of resources imo for the #2 pick in the draft to sit 2 years. In not a fan of that at all. Well see.
Rosen  
Giantimistic : 4/15/2018 4:48 am : link
If it turns out that the Giants select Rosen and that is who the Jets really wanted, then the Giants would have done a great job with their misinformation for once. Not saying that the Browns would have traded their number 1 pick to the Jets, but maybe the Jets would have made a bigger blockbuster trade attempt to get in front of the Giants if they thought the Giants were after the same player. Obviously, the Jets probably are ok with 3 quarterbacks or you don't trade up to 3 if you need a quarterback--organizations do screw year after year though.

Although they may really Like Barkley, Chubb, and Darnold; all the talk about them, or trade down, may have just been aimed at teams trying to get in front of them or to mess with the Browns thinking so the Giants get the player they want.

This really has been one of the more interesting and unpredictable drafts that may be talked about for years to come. Most likely 1 or more teams in the top 5 are going to look back on this draft as what changed their franchise and some will look back as maybe the biggest missed opportunity. If based on history, the Browns may find a way to mess up their 1 and 4 picks.
RE: Gatorade  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/15/2018 4:53 am : link
In comment 13914544 jtgiants said:
Quote:
I've stated my opinion very clearly multiple times. I've been very clear that is possible I'm wrong. I've also clearly stated they could take Darnold. Either way I've been very detailed on this

Oh, is it your opinion? I could have sworn that you've presented it as fact, repeatedly. Getting a little gunshy on the airtight intel coming out of the ad sales bullpen at CBS?
RE: Milton  
Milton : 4/15/2018 5:38 am : link
In comment 13914545 jtgiants said:
Quote:
That's where we disagree. Its a huge waste of resources imo for the #2 pick in the draft to sit 2 years. I'm not a fan of that at all.
But if the alternative means passing on a QB you believe has Hall of Fame potential, I can't see there being any other choice. And once that choice is made, you play it by ear, and that includes Davis Webb's future as well. What happens in 2019 will be based on what happens during the 2018 season, not the 2018 off-season. And as we're all very well aware, a lot can happen from year to year to completely change your thinking.
RE: RE: I'd rather take a pro bowl OG than a pro bowl RB  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 4/15/2018 6:05 am : link
In comment 13914536 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 13914119 Jim in Forest Hills said:


Quote:


personally. The OG will make every RB better.



This is just silly. Based on Barkley's potential, he is not JUST a pro bowl RB.

You would take Steve Hutchison over LaDainian Tomlinson? Larry Allen ove Marshall Faulk?

The idea that an All World Guard is the better pick than a RB with Barkley's abilities is fucking adorable.

No offense Jim. But come on.


Im in agreement with this. OGs simply are not transformational players like a multi faceted homerun threat like Barkley is.

He impacts 3 phases: run game, pass game and special teams.

Lastly further underscored by the fact that RB is a legitimate need position.
RE: As I've said several times...  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 4/15/2018 6:10 am : link
In comment 13914542 Milton said:
Quote:
It's not mutually exclusive to believe in Eli and also want the Giants to draft a QB at #2. There is very solid logic to it.


Totally agreed. QB is a position that is simply on a different level than any other position. It is arguably the most important position in any sport.

There are enough core players already on this team at the premium positions that with further solidification of the glaring weaknesses( OL and LB ) and the huge uprade in coaching, that this team should be markedly improved next year even with our top pick carrying a clipboard.
I think the Giants are going QB  
Sean : 4/15/2018 7:30 am : link
they may have some of the lesser tier guys graded close to the first round guys and if that’s the case they may draft in 2nd or trade back into first round.
It was just over a month ago when a huge segment on BBI  
Jimmy Googs : 4/15/2018 9:01 am : link
could only talk about the elite combine performance S. Barkley had and that all the QBs in this draft were falling out favor.

Now stories seem to suggest that Barkley is slipping and the QBs are rising again, as is Chubb. Yet not one of these guys has played a snap of football since then to show anybody that they are any better or worse than they were a month ago.

The only thing that has changed is the fickle minds of the media and the fans the follow the gossip of the day, like a bunch of high school girls...

Everybody on this site knows Sy's work  
Mike from Ohio : 4/15/2018 10:02 am : link
He does an outstanding job. But his ratings will not line up with every other knowledgeable scout in the league. That doesn't mean Sy is better or worse, it means the draft is about opinions and knowledgeable people can have different opinions. Because Sy thinks Barkley is by far the best player in this draft does not mean every NFL team has him rated that way. It also doesn't mean Sy or those other scouts are bad at what they do. Professionals disagree on prospects. That is just the nature of the draft.

I also think if the Giants draft a QB at #2 there is very little chance he sits for two years, unless it is Allen. Rosen is pro-ready so you don't waste two years of his rookie contract - and development - having him sit. I think Darnold may sit a year but likely not more than that.
RE: Everybody on this site knows Sy's work  
Milton : 4/15/2018 10:14 am : link
In comment 13914656 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
He does an outstanding job. But his ratings will not line up with every other knowledgeable scout in the league. That doesn't mean Sy is better or worse, it means the draft is about opinions and knowledgeable people can have different opinions. Because Sy thinks Barkley is by far the best player in this draft does not mean every NFL team has him rated that way. It also doesn't mean Sy or those other scouts are bad at what they do. Professionals disagree on prospects. That is just the nature of the draft.
I just want to add that not only do the professionals disagree on prospects, they sometimes disagree by a very wide margin. One scout's 1st round prospect could be another scout's 4th round prospect, and they could both be highly successful scouts with excellent track records.

Quote:
I also think if the Giants draft a QB at #2 there is very little chance he sits for two years, unless it is Allen.
How long the QB sits will/would be a function of several factors and there's really no sense trying to predict it.
Sticking with my prediction from months ago  
JonC : 4/15/2018 10:15 am : link
Darnold or Barkley, the two highest upsides in the draft.

Chubb if they trade down to 5.
RE: RE: Everybody on this site knows Sy's work  
Strip-Sack : 4/15/2018 10:19 am : link
In comment 13914661 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13914656 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


He does an outstanding job. But his ratings will not line up with every other knowledgeable scout in the league. That doesn't mean Sy is better or worse, it means the draft is about opinions and knowledgeable people can have different opinions. Because Sy thinks Barkley is by far the best player in this draft does not mean every NFL team has him rated that way. It also doesn't mean Sy or those other scouts are bad at what they do. Professionals disagree on prospects. That is just the nature of the draft.

I just want to add that not only do the professionals disagree on prospects, they sometimes disagree by a very wide margin. One scout's 1st round prospect could be another scout's 4th round prospect, and they could both be highly successful scouts with excellent track records.



Quote:


I also think if the Giants draft a QB at #2 there is very little chance he sits for two years, unless it is Allen.

How long the QB sits will/would be a function of several factors and there's really no sense trying to predict it.


I’m sorry but there is no way in hell that any “player” let alone a QB selected #2 overall in the draft will sit on the bench for two years....just not gonna happen.
RE: Sticking with my prediction from months ago  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 4/15/2018 10:19 am : link
In comment 13914663 JonC said:
Quote:
Darnold or Barkley, the two highest upsides in the draft.

Chubb if they trade down to 5.


Jon based on all the clues and reading of the tea leaves , this scenario makes the most sense. Of course, It also could still be Barkley at 5 if Browns trade out to a QB desperate team and/or they take Chubb themselves. My only contention with Giant thinking is they are potentially horribly missing the boat on Rosen (though short term I wont mind if we take the transformational talent in Saquon).
With the 2nd pick in the 2018 NFL draft  
Jeever : 4/15/2018 10:49 am : link
the New York Football Giants select Saquon Barkley, running back from Penn State University.

The New York Jets are now on the clock.
RE: thinking ain't knowing  
AcidTest : 4/15/2018 11:00 am : link
In comment 13914521 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
Acid: I know I shouldn't have added that bit because I think that the rest of the stuff i was saying was far more relevant but don't get mad at me as I'm just passing on a possible explanation a pretty reliable league source told me to possibly explain why the Giants were all over the QBs during the pro day/private visit phase but have since have acted like they have never even heard of those guys. And the Browns don't have to know anything. All they have to do is think that the Giants are likely heavily invested in Rosen (which any idiot not in denial should be able to figure out for themselves if they were paying attention) to at least try for a flip. in tbhe end nothing is going to happen, but there is nothing to be lost for the browns to give it a try.


I'm sorry if I was too critical. We all value your input.
Gatorade  
jtgiants : 4/15/2018 11:07 am : link
Talking to you is like talking to a wall. You obviously have no comprehensive skills. We know your an insufferable moron so we've established you know also don't understand football either. That said ill indulge you one more time. My opinions are my opinions. They are informed however. You can ignore what I say. I could care less. That doesn't make it any less informed. If they go qb its Darnold. They aren't taking another qb. I have this opinion enhanced by everything I've heard. Do you understand now?
RE: RE: RE: That’s actually not true Limerick  
UConn4523 : 4/15/2018 11:14 am : link
In comment 13914519 DonQuixote said:
Quote:
In comment 13914380 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 13914372 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


Sy and Dave-te are both professionals who have been doing this for a long time

Their insisghts are invaluable



Haha. Was thinking the same when I read his post.

Sy’s opinion is by no means the end all be all, he’d be the first to tell you, but I’m going to trust him over 99.9% of BBI when t comes to scouting.



Posting something more meaningful than the opinions of us fans, that’s a low bar. We are fans...

Sy is a guy that seems to put time in and so he knows more than I, but too many on this site treat it as gospel. Sy might even agree. Remember, scouts and gms are disagreeing and working it all out in the war room. Draft is a crapshoot, his is one guy. Glad he shares his views here.


I get that but when TLG offers nothing other than a “Sy just does what we all don’t have time for” post I’m going to call it out because it’s that fucking stupid.
RE: Gatorade  
Mike from Ohio : 4/15/2018 12:07 pm : link
In comment 13914690 jtgiants said:
Quote:
Talking to you is like talking to a wall. You obviously have no comprehensive skills. We know your an insufferable moron so we've established you know also don't understand football either. That said ill indulge you one more time. My opinions are my opinions. They are informed however. You can ignore what I say. I could care less. That doesn't make it any less informed. If they go qb its Darnold. They aren't taking another qb. I have this opinion enhanced by everything I've heard. Do you understand now?


Informed by what? There are any number of people on this site that claim to have connections. A couple have a track history of being right so they don't need to prove anything. But they also don't keep insisting the have connections they won't talk about, or insisting that the Giants intentions are as black and white as you do. For most of us that comes across as unbelievable.
RE: RE: Gatorade  
TrueBlue56 : 4/15/2018 12:14 pm : link
In comment 13914758 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 13914690 jtgiants said:


Quote:


Talking to you is like talking to a wall. You obviously have no comprehensive skills. We know your an insufferable moron so we've established you know also don't understand football either. That said ill indulge you one more time. My opinions are my opinions. They are informed however. You can ignore what I say. I could care less. That doesn't make it any less informed. If they go qb its Darnold. They aren't taking another qb. I have this opinion enhanced by everything I've heard. Do you understand now?



Informed by what? There are any number of people on this site that claim to have connections. A couple have a track history of being right so they don't need to prove anything. But they also don't keep insisting the have connections they won't talk about, or insisting that the Giants intentions are as black and white as you do. For most of us that comes across as unbelievable.


Mike, you are coming in without knowledge of history on jtgiant. He has explained his connections in previous posts and he has given information and insight in the past that has been valid. He is not even saying it's black and white and has said numerous times that things could change. We can take the information with a grain of salt or not, but it's being shared regardless. Same with beat writers
RE: RE: RE: Gatorade  
Mike from Ohio : 4/15/2018 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13914763 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13914758 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


In comment 13914690 jtgiants said:


Quote:


Talking to you is like talking to a wall. You obviously have no comprehensive skills. We know your an insufferable moron so we've established you know also don't understand football either. That said ill indulge you one more time. My opinions are my opinions. They are informed however. You can ignore what I say. I could care less. That doesn't make it any less informed. If they go qb its Darnold. They aren't taking another qb. I have this opinion enhanced by everything I've heard. Do you understand now?



Informed by what? There are any number of people on this site that claim to have connections. A couple have a track history of being right so they don't need to prove anything. But they also don't keep insisting the have connections they won't talk about, or insisting that the Giants intentions are as black and white as you do. For most of us that comes across as unbelievable.



Mike, you are coming in without knowledge of history on jtgiant. He has explained his connections in previous posts and he has given information and insight in the past that has been valid. He is not even saying it's black and white and has said numerous times that things could change. We can take the information with a grain of salt or not, but it's being shared regardless. Same with beat writers


I am not aware of jtgiants history, so I am asking. I have been in this site for a very long time, and there are certain posters who have a history of beng correct about things. Hitdog, JonC to name a couple. I can't recall jtgiants bringing anything like that, but I may just not have seen it.

Are there other posters out there that can speak to jtgiants bona fides?
RE: RE: RE: Gatorade  
twostepgiants : 4/15/2018 1:12 pm : link
In comment 13914763 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13914758 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


In comment 13914690 jtgiants said:


Quote:


Talking to you is like talking to a wall. You obviously have no comprehensive skills. We know your an insufferable moron so we've established you know also don't understand football either. That said ill indulge you one more time. My opinions are my opinions. They are informed however. You can ignore what I say. I could care less. That doesn't make it any less informed. If they go qb its Darnold. They aren't taking another qb. I have this opinion enhanced by everything I've heard. Do you understand now?



Informed by what? There are any number of people on this site that claim to have connections. A couple have a track history of being right so they don't need to prove anything. But they also don't keep insisting the have connections they won't talk about, or insisting that the Giants intentions are as black and white as you do. For most of us that comes across as unbelievable.



Mike, you are coming in without knowledge of history on jtgiant. He has explained his connections in previous posts and he has given information and insight in the past that has been valid. He is not even saying it's black and white and has said numerous times that things could change. We can take the information with a grain of salt or not, but it's being shared regardless. Same with beat writers


Yeah, not exactly saying take my info with a grain of salt.

Colin
jtgiants : 12:53 am : link : reply
I respect you but your going to look pretty bad when giants don't go qb.


There are few more respected posters than Colin and JT comes in with a veiled threat.

And its not the first time he’s posted this to people who think the media narrative may be incorrect or hope it is anyway.
RE: RE: RE: Gatorade  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/15/2018 1:38 pm : link
In comment 13914763 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13914758 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


In comment 13914690 jtgiants said:


Quote:


Talking to you is like talking to a wall. You obviously have no comprehensive skills. We know your an insufferable moron so we've established you know also don't understand football either. That said ill indulge you one more time. My opinions are my opinions. They are informed however. You can ignore what I say. I could care less. That doesn't make it any less informed. If they go qb its Darnold. They aren't taking another qb. I have this opinion enhanced by everything I've heard. Do you understand now?



Informed by what? There are any number of people on this site that claim to have connections. A couple have a track history of being right so they don't need to prove anything. But they also don't keep insisting the have connections they won't talk about, or insisting that the Giants intentions are as black and white as you do. For most of us that comes across as unbelievable.



Mike, you are coming in without knowledge of history on jtgiant. He has explained his connections in previous posts and he has given information and insight in the past that has been valid. He is not even saying it's black and white and has said numerous times that things could change. We can take the information with a grain of salt or not, but it's being shared regardless. Same with beat writers

Stop. He's not an asshat by any means. His connection is having worked at CBS Sports Radio in the past. Are they breaking any draft news for the Giants? He's a fan just like you and me and has a particular outcome that he's rooting for.

I worked for the NFL for a while (Eric can confirm). Does that make my wishful thinking more valuable than anyone else's?
RE: Gatorade  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/15/2018 1:40 pm : link
In comment 13914690 jtgiants said:
Quote:
Talking to you is like talking to a wall. You obviously have no comprehensive skills. We know your an insufferable moron so we've established you know also don't understand football either. That said ill indulge you one more time. My opinions are my opinions. They are informed however. You can ignore what I say. I could care less. That doesn't make it any less informed. If they go qb its Darnold. They aren't taking another qb. I have this opinion enhanced by everything I've heard. Do you understand now?

You are not connected. I don't care what you've heard.
11 more days - the draft can't come fast enough  
PatersonPlank : 4/15/2018 1:43 pm : link
.
JTGiants is the destroyer of threads  
twostepgiants : 4/15/2018 2:11 pm : link
He comes on a good discussion thread that is about going QB.

He then starts going on about how the Giants are not going QB 100%

He then starts with the insults

Then claims the victim because people disagreed with him, which he considers being attacked

Then he claims his opinion is informed and alludes to having asshat status

And by that point the good discussion is dead

He killed a great thread that should be talking about Colins posts
Were damn sure not taking a G at #2  
Bluesbreaker : 4/15/2018 2:16 pm : link
If Clev takes Darnold I am running to the podium for Barkley unless Buffalo wows us with a crazy offer no other
team has the ammo IMO worthy of pick #2 . Eli i still good enough and with a O-line getting revamped and a threat st
RB play action will be back in the cards something Eli does well when you have those kinds of weapons to keep a defense off balanced .
RE: RE: 'Sy IS a professional scout'...  
Peppers : 4/15/2018 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13914537 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13914484 Torrag said:


Quote:


LOL. I like Sy and his opinions are informative but working for a non NFL related draft publication isn't being a scout imo.


Does he get paid professionally to do scouting for a service that NFL teams use?

He's a professional scout.


That's not true. There are only two scouting services the NFL teams use, National and BLESTO. A hand full don't use any (NYG uses BLESTO). They are primarily used at the start of the process which is immediately after the draft, each team will get roughly 800 reports, the regionals/team scouts will take it from there.

IF there are amateur scouting services that claim NFL teams use them they are lying..

Personally, credentials speak volumes.. I don't know Sy's and by the sounds of it neither does a lot of people who preach his word. He seems like a decent guy, but with my experience (I've played at a high level, until recently coached at the collegiate level, and I'm friends with real pro scouts/coaches) I don't spend much time reading amateur opinions. Not to say I'm better or that I have better sources of information. I'm part owner in a couple restaurants/bars and I'm now trying to tackle real estate which makes its hard to find time to read this site or his reports so this is nothing against him or those on this board. This is a knowledgeable group, I like what Eric put together here, that's why I continue to frequent the corner when I can.
These insults  
jtgiants : 4/15/2018 3:31 pm : link
Are ridiculous and the reason many people in the past stopped posting. I'm really tired of the insults and attacks. I've not ruined any threads and people like Gatorade and Two step cause many people to stop posting. My track record on this site isn't perfect. No ones is. It is honest however. Truthfully as honest as any poster on this sits history. Those who know me know That's true. Both in my personal life and the insights I post
imo  
Bill2 : 4/15/2018 3:38 pm : link
Sy/Colin/Dave/"draft evaluation writers/prognosticators of all kinds/"professional scouts of actual nfl teams"/"I used to coach or play"/asshat/wannabes/General Managers and Heads of Scouting for NFL teams?

At some point exemplars of each category rise to the top of their pyramids

Common to all of the above is:

1)football talent assessment skills which breaks down into

-- objectivity

-- A consistently followed point of view or systemic
factors they believe connect to future success. They
have to have a sequence they follow year after year
position by position or otherwise they are just a guy

-- many many hours of film assessment

-- other professionals to debate/refine what they saw

2) Common to Only people on actual NFl teams:

A) Access to the players and their coaches and agents/parents.

B) Access to data points from interviews/tests/medicals/workouts that only professional teams have

C) Assessments of the true state and beliefs of the coaching staffs as to the weaknesses of the current team

At some point the personal assessment skills of each type might be equal but the access to information is not.

For me, since they cannot access the top of the pyramid data all we have is respect for guys like Colin and Sy who are at the top of the non NFL team pyramid.

Its a little like the book reviewer at the NYT is going to get first crack at the upcoming novel even if your cousin once removed has good insights after he reads it

The guys we should have the least respect for is guys who pretend that they are any more than they are...guys without an evaluation system they follow with rigor

This group is closely related to the most annoying posts we see:

I saw a play or a game or heard a thing abut a guy or my old school and fell in love.

Now I am going to torture the rest of the data into confessing.

Most posts fall into this last category

a few posters actually have professional grade NFl talent assessment skills and also follow an assessment system backed by multi source data and hours of study across positions across colleges across years. Few

few currently paid NFL talent assessors may post on a fan site...but not under their own name or credentials

No FO talent evaluator of the overall scout assessments for an NFL team posts here.

I am sure many have some good insights here and there about this or that...but are miles away from what it takes for this. I am sure that's because most devote the time it takes towards their life, loved ones and different primary careers.

Good posters stay within themselves

Mike from ohio  
jtgiants : 4/15/2018 3:38 pm : link
All due respect. Listen to my opinion or not. Up to you. I don't feel the need or have the time to prove to you or anyone else on this site what I'm saying. Many find this information helpful. Weather or not you do is up to you.
RE: imo  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 4/15/2018 3:41 pm : link
In comment 13914998 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Sy/Colin/Dave/"draft evaluation writers/prognosticators of all kinds/"professional scouts of actual nfl teams"/"I used to coach or play"/asshat/wannabes/General Managers and Heads of Scouting for NFL teams?

At some point exemplars of each category rise to the top of their pyramids

Common to all of the above is:

1)football talent assessment skills which breaks down into

-- objectivity

-- A consistently followed point of view or systemic
factors they believe connect to future success. They
have to have a sequence they follow year after year
position by position or otherwise they are just a guy

-- many many hours of film assessment

-- other professionals to debate/refine what they saw

2) Common to Only people on actual NFl teams:

A) Access to the players and their coaches and agents/parents.

B) Access to data points from interviews/tests/medicals/workouts that only professional teams have

C) Assessments of the true state and beliefs of the coaching staffs as to the weaknesses of the current team

At some point the personal assessment skills of each type might be equal but the access to information is not.

For me, since they cannot access the top of the pyramid data all we have is respect for guys like Colin and Sy who are at the top of the non NFL team pyramid.

Its a little like the book reviewer at the NYT is going to get first crack at the upcoming novel even if your cousin once removed has good insights after he reads it

The guys we should have the least respect for is guys who pretend that they are any more than they are...guys without an evaluation system they follow with rigor

This group is closely related to the most annoying posts we see:

I saw a play or a game or heard a thing abut a guy or my old school and fell in love.

Now I am going to torture the rest of the data into confessing.

Most posts fall into this last category

a few posters actually have professional grade NFl talent assessment skills and also follow an assessment system backed by multi source data and hours of study across positions across colleges across years. Few

few currently paid NFL talent assessors may post on a fan site...but not under their own name or credentials

No FO talent evaluator of the overall scout assessments for an NFL team posts here.

I am sure many have some good insights here and there about this or that...but are miles away from what it takes for this. I am sure that's because most devote the time it takes towards their life, loved ones and different primary careers.

Good posters stay within themselves


Good post Bill2. Well said.
RE: These insults  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/15/2018 4:06 pm : link
In comment 13914989 jtgiants said:
Quote:
Are ridiculous and the reason many people in the past stopped posting. I'm really tired of the insults and attacks. I've not ruined any threads and people like Gatorade and Two step cause many people to stop posting. My track record on this site isn't perfect. No ones is. It is honest however. Truthfully as honest as any poster on this sits history. Those who know me know That's true. Both in my personal life and the insights I post

How many times have you called me a moron? And you have the nerve to talk about insults?

You're just a fan who is hoping for one particular scenario. So much so that you have convinced yourself that it's somehow more likely than all other scenarios, and for whatever reason, you seem to demonstrate an odd need to get people on board with your preferred outcome by way of suggesting that it has legs because you've supposedly been told things.

It's strange. That's not an insult, it's not an attack, it's an observation.
RE: 11 more days - the draft can't come fast enough  
Route 9 : 4/15/2018 4:16 pm : link
In comment 13914874 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
.


Haha I get your point but this nothing. This is (sadly) the calm...before the storm.

Havoc will be had once that first round pick is made
I think Sy is a professional scout  
twostepgiants : 4/15/2018 4:21 pm : link
If you are paid to do scouting then you are a professional scout

I think Sy is a paid to scout and is thereby a professional.

I dont think he works for the NFL, an NFL team or for one of the two scouting groups.

I think Sy has been doing this on here for 4 years and has proven on many occasions to be prescient and has therefore earned a bit of a following.

I think he has generously offered a great service to BBI and it is appreciated by the vast majority of BBI.

Gatorade  
jtgiants : 4/15/2018 4:38 pm : link
I find it odd that you do nothing but attack my thoughts and insights. Its not what I want, per Dr, its what I think will happen. Every time I post you attack what I say. I find that odd. Its what I think will happen. The thing is you keep alluding to the fact I'm differing from the media narrative because its what I want. That shows how skewed your thoughts are. Schwartz, Kim jones, dottino, Garafolo etc. All say no qb. Not sure where your getting this. As for Colin. I respect him hi t he doesn't think Barkley a consideration at 2. I mean is he skewed because its what he wants to happen? He also says all signs point to giants going qb and if you don't see that your delusional? I totally disagree with him but its his opinion. Are you accusing him of ruining threads? Finally, you attack my contacts through CBS radio, do you even know who they are? I don't attack you. You attack me and are out of line. I'm sorry. You are and I'm calling you on it
RE: Gatorade  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/15/2018 5:26 pm : link
In comment 13915048 jtgiants said:
Quote:
I find it odd that you do nothing but attack my thoughts and insights. Its not what I want, per Dr, its what I think will happen. Every time I post you attack what I say. I find that odd. Its what I think will happen. The thing is you keep alluding to the fact I'm differing from the media narrative because its what I want. That shows how skewed your thoughts are. Schwartz, Kim jones, dottino, Garafolo etc. All say no qb. Not sure where your getting this. As for Colin. I respect him hi t he doesn't think Barkley a consideration at 2. I mean is he skewed because its what he wants to happen? He also says all signs point to giants going qb and if you don't see that your delusional? I totally disagree with him but its his opinion. Are you accusing him of ruining threads? Finally, you attack my contacts through CBS radio, do you even know who they are? I don't attack you. You attack me and are out of line. I'm sorry. You are and I'm calling you on it

A) It's not an attack. Stop playing the victim. You're the one who has called me a moron repeatedly.

B) I'm not accusing you of differing from the media narrative. In fact, my point has been all along that you take the media narrative as gospel.

C) Colin was positing a scenario, just like you have been, and YOU were the one who immediately resorted to "your [sic] going to look bad" tactics.

D) I can listen to CBS Sports Radio if I want to know what they're hearing - by definition, they're not in the business of hearing whispers that they don't share.

E) Several posters, including myself, have tangential access to information, yet don't feel compelled to play the "I've been told" card to validate their own wishful thinking.

F) As I mentioned above, the only one who has issued personal attacks is you.

You seem to have a pathological need to have your desired outcome be fact and accepted/embraced by others. We'll know for sure in 11 days, and you may well get your wish. But trotting out your hopes as facts is just a weird approach.
Barkley  
kes722 : 4/15/2018 5:33 pm : link
Hope its barkley. Him and OBJ would be insain...
RE: Barkley  
PatersonPlank : 4/15/2018 5:39 pm : link
In comment 13915086 kes722 said:
Quote:
Hope its barkley. Him and OBJ would be insain...


If we can also pick up a starting OL player high in the 2nd like Wynn, Price, Williams, Hernandez, etc. then I'd be thrilled with a Barkley/OL player 1-2. We'd had 3 new OL starters (maybe even 4 if Flowers gets beat out), and Barkley.
Gatorade  
jtgiants : 4/15/2018 5:42 pm : link
Your the one making the remarks in a snide way about what I've heard. You and I are never going to agree. I only attack you when you make your snide remarks toward me. Well see what happens but this is a waste of time for both of us. I'm done. My comments are a combination of my thoughts and things I've heard from multiple people which form my opinion. Lets agree to just see what happens and ignore each other. Sometimes its just better to acknowledge well never see eye to eye and continuing the fight serves nobody well. Fair enough?
I do have to say  
jtgiants : 4/15/2018 5:47 pm : link
In general. Attacking people, who have provided good insight on this site, is something you should consider not doing. Weather you want to acknowledge it or not its divisive to the site. Eric and many others c an be asked if I've provided info before but it irrelevant. The point is take the info and choose to believe it or not. Just don't attack the person w the info
RE: I do have to say  
twostepgiants : 4/15/2018 5:53 pm : link
In comment 13915101 jtgiants said:
Quote:
In general. Attacking people, who have provided good insight on this site, is something you should consider not doing. Weather you want to acknowledge it or not its divisive to the site. Eric and many others c an be asked if I've provided info before but it irrelevant. The point is take the info and choose to believe it or not. Just don't attack the person w the info


Im sorry but didnt you attack Colin?
Twostep  
jtgiants : 4/15/2018 5:57 pm : link
Not at all. I respect Colin. Always have. I did challenge what he said. His info and words were very strong and directly opposite what I believe. One of us is very wrong. Ill be killed by you Gatorade etc if giants take any qb in round 1 not named Darnold. I accept that. However with colons strong thoughts regarding the giants the same will be said to him if we take Barkley Chubb or trade back.
As a poster  
Marty866b : 4/15/2018 6:19 pm : link
Who has been on this board for a very long time,I can tell you that JT is legit. I am hoping that his info is wrong here because I want a quarterback,but he is legit.
RE: I do have to say  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/15/2018 6:47 pm : link
In comment 13915101 jtgiants said:
Quote:
In general. Attacking people, who have provided good insight on this site, is something you should consider not doing. Weather you want to acknowledge it or not its divisive to the site. Eric and many others c an be asked if I've provided info before but it irrelevant. The point is take the info and choose to believe it or not. Just don't attack the person w the info

Like I said earlier in the thread, I used to work for the NFL. Do you not think I have at least the same access to info as you? That's not an attack on you, by the way - I happen to know that opinions/insights are all over the map with regard to what the Giants are going to do. You just happen to only share what aligns with what you hope will happen.
RE: Twostep  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/15/2018 6:51 pm : link
In comment 13915111 jtgiants said:
Quote:
Not at all. I respect Colin. Always have. I did challenge what he said. His info and words were very strong and directly opposite what I believe. One of us is very wrong. Ill be killed by you Gatorade etc if giants take any qb in round 1 not named Darnold. I accept that. However with colons strong thoughts regarding the giants the same will be said to him if we take Barkley Chubb or trade back.

JT, you have my word that I will not be out looking for you to eat crow or anything else once the pick is made. As soon as that moment passes, I assume we'll be in complete agreement that we're rooting for incredible success for whoever the Giants choose as our next star.
And I know some guys in the Atlanta front office  
Jimmy Googs : 4/15/2018 6:57 pm : link
and most of what they tell me prior to draft day they openly admit is somewhere between 100% correct and 100% wrong.

Only one team with exactly one pick controls their own destiny each year.

So let’s please just say things are opinions and clearly fluid...
Gatorade  
jtgiants : 4/15/2018 7:18 pm : link
Your last post is 100% correct
JT its not what you say  
Dave on the UWS : 4/15/2018 7:38 pm : link
but how you say it. Your insights are always appreciated but sometimes the tone is a bit harsh.
Dave  
jtgiants : 4/15/2018 8:02 pm : link
All due respect. Did you see the tone used towards me? Gatorade and I are good now. We both probably were a little too harsh in retrospect
Gatorade  
Route 9 : 4/15/2018 8:34 pm : link
Care to share how you spent your days in the NFL? What did you do?
RE: Gatorade  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/15/2018 9:52 pm : link
In comment 13915220 Route 9 said:
Quote:
Care to share how you spent your days in the NFL? What did you do?

Biz dev and ticket sales. Nothing that would qualify me as an insider on my own merit.
RE: Mike from ohio  
Mike from Ohio : 4/16/2018 10:18 am : link
In comment 13914999 jtgiants said:
Quote:
All due respect. Listen to my opinion or not. Up to you. I don't feel the need or have the time to prove to you or anyone else on this site what I'm saying. Many find this information helpful. Weather or not you do is up to you.


Do you not honestly understand the difference between an opinion and what you offer? "I think the Giants like Darnold" is an opinion. "I think Darnold is the only QB they should draft" is an opinion. Nobody has any problem with that, especially me.

"The Giants will only take Darnold based on what I am hearing" or "The fact is they will only take Darnold" is not an opinion. It is someone stating they have actual insight into what the Giants are thinking/saying privately. If you want to do that, and you have no proven history of being right, you are going to be challenged. You should be.

If your "connection" to the Giants is that you used to work in sports radio, and nobody can vouch for any history of insight you provided, maybe you should just post your opinion as opinion as most others do.

Or just keep pretending to be an insider and look foolish.
Back to the Corner