“— It still does not appear likely the Giants will take a quarterback, at least not with the No. 2 pick.”
“The Giants view Saquon Barkley as a near-perfect prospect. They think he’s a better player than Ezekiel Elliott, who went No. 4 to the Cowboys in 2016.”
“There is no doubt North Carolina State defensive end Bradley Chubb is in the mix...”
“Quenton Nelson will not be the pick at No. 2. This is not because the Giants have any reservations with the player — they do not — but it is a matter of positional value. The second-overall pick is too high to take a guard. The Giants do not view Nelson as a viable option to move outside to tackle. If they trade down (this is unlikely), moving to No. 5 to give the Broncos the No. 2 pick, then Nelson makes sense...”
Link - (
New Window )
A) Barkley
B) Rosen/Darnold
C) Trade down
I am going with C
Sy, does this assume Browns take a quarterback? What if they take Barkley with #1?
Elliot played on a great team. Barkley was the team. All the experts seem to think Barkley is the best player in the draft. But whatever...
They likely have a conviction on one and will go with that guy #1. If they go Barkley its very possible 2 QBs go 2-3 and theyd have the 3rd QB off the board.
Dont see that happening when they will get either the top non QB at 4 or 2nd top non QB (should we stay at 2 and go non QB)
If you are dying for Reggie Bush I am sure there is someone to be had later in the draft.
No
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Only one way for Cleveland to secure Barkley for sure, and that's #1. I wouldn't discount it. They can get another great player including QB at 4.
I think this is more likely than people think...
Based on what?
Every year I hear the "smokescreen" argument, but more often it seems as if Vacciano, Scwhartz, Garafolo, etc. have a pretty good idea of the team's thinking.
That all said, it could be different this year. If we take a QB, in my mind, they did a great job of misdirection.
What about the fact that Gettleman left the organization and realized like everyone else what a sieve of information the Giants are and only took the job under the condition that he not discuss the plans with Mara or Tisch until the day before the draft?
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In comment 13914175 BigBluesman said:
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Only one way for Cleveland to secure Barkley for sure, and that's #1. I wouldn't discount it. They can get another great player including QB at 4.
I think this is more likely than people think...
Based on what?
Sy's grade.
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In comment 13914308 the mike said:
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In comment 13914175 BigBluesman said:
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Only one way for Cleveland to secure Barkley for sure, and that's #1. I wouldn't discount it. They can get another great player including QB at 4.
I think this is more likely than people think...
Based on what?
Sy's grade.
Sy's grade has about as much to do who the Browns will pick as the price of milk at the corner deli.
I get it, Sy does a great job digesting and reporting information here that most of us would be far too busy to go through on our own but
A) he's not anywhere nearly as invested as an NFL GM.
B) he's not anywhere nearly as qualified as even a low level NFL scout to evaluate talent.
Can we stop with this?
Their insisghts are invaluable
Their insisghts are invaluable
Haha. Was thinking the same when I read his post.
Sy’s opinion is by no means the end all be all, he’d be the first to tell you, but I’m going to trust him over 99.9% of BBI when t comes to scouting.
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In comment 13914308 the mike said:
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In comment 13914175 BigBluesman said:
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Only one way for Cleveland to secure Barkley for sure, and that's #1. I wouldn't discount it. They can get another great player including QB at 4.
I think this is more likely than people think...
Based on what?
Sy's grade.
Sy is awesome, and I always look to read everything he posts, but he's not building out Cleveland's draft board. And that's not to say that Cleveland shouldn't consider Barkley at #1, but there are also factors that extend beyond the draft board itself.
It's incredibly unlikely that the Browns pick anything other than a QB at #1 overall, IMO.
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In comment 13914348 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13914308 the mike said:
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In comment 13914175 BigBluesman said:
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Only one way for Cleveland to secure Barkley for sure, and that's #1. I wouldn't discount it. They can get another great player including QB at 4.
I think this is more likely than people think...
Based on what?
Sy's grade.
Sy's grade has about as much to do who the Browns will pick as the price of milk at the corner deli.
I get it, Sy does a great job digesting and reporting information here that most of us would be far too busy to go through on our own but
A) he's not anywhere nearly as invested as an NFL GM.
B) he's not anywhere nearly as qualified as even a low level NFL scout to evaluate talent.
Can we stop with this?
I can assure you that Sy has just as much qualification to grade these players as any of the "insiders" that you seem to revere - please do share with BBI who you follow if not Sy? Frankly, Sy's grading reports and comparable players are fantastic and one of the primary reasons I am here and have been promoting BBI like crazy to anyone who will listen...
Truth be told, I for one could care less what people think WILL happen since we will know shortly... And truthfully, no one really knows - not even the GMs themselves who will not be sure until they are on the clock given the fluidity of the process...
What I do care about is formulating a credible and cogent point of view as to what SHOULD happen. We have seen an endless parade of idiotic draft selections by NFL GMs who have been very "invested" in the process over the years... led by our former GM whose performance over this past decade has been downright abysmal...
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ahead of the Limerick Guy
+💯
In no world am I even in the same stratosphere as Sy when it comes to evaluating college talent.
I'm not attacking Sy at all. Re read what I wrote I am a big fan of what he does.
The response was due to a narrative that has been created around here that Sy is a top tier evaluator in the context of professionals. As for BBI, he is the king, in the world of real scouts and GMs I don't know how what he does compares to the pros. That's not a knock on the guy at all it's the difference between a DYI guy doing a home remodel or a contractor.
Just because he's the best player in the entire draft ...
That puts Denver in a bind - three "QB needy" ahead of them (Giants, Jets, Browns). At that point, the Giants are in the "catbird" seat. That's when we strike -
Our 2nd overall for their 1st (5th overall), 2nd (40th overall), 3rd (71st overall) and their 2019 1st round pick.
Art that point, I 'd go get Nelson and parlay the rest of the draft to completely fix the line and pick up DR'C's replacement and a big receiver to compliment OBJ.
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In comment 13914393 Southern Man said:
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ahead of the Limerick Guy
+💯
In no world am I even in the same stratosphere as Sy when it comes to evaluating college talent.
I'm not attacking Sy at all. Re read what I wrote I am a big fan of what he does.
The response was due to a narrative that has been created around here that Sy is a top tier evaluator in the context of professionals. As for BBI, he is the king, in the world of real scouts and GMs I don't know how what he does compares to the pros. That's not a knock on the guy at all it's the difference between a DYI guy doing a home remodel or a contractor.
Sy IS a professional scout. That's the part you're not understanding.
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In comment 13914397 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13914393 Southern Man said:
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ahead of the Limerick Guy
+💯
In no world am I even in the same stratosphere as Sy when it comes to evaluating college talent.
I'm not attacking Sy at all. Re read what I wrote I am a big fan of what he does.
The response was due to a narrative that has been created around here that Sy is a top tier evaluator in the context of professionals. As for BBI, he is the king, in the world of real scouts and GMs I don't know how what he does compares to the pros. That's not a knock on the guy at all it's the difference between a DYI guy doing a home remodel or a contractor.
Sy IS a professional scout. That's the part you're not understanding.
And is as good as anyone I have followed - professional or non-professional...
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Gettleman isn't new to the organization. And more importantly, he has little ability to control leaks. The Giants are a family owned business and there are a lot of Mara and Tisch relatives out there and a lot of employees. People talk.
Every year I hear the "smokescreen" argument, but more often it seems as if Vacciano, Scwhartz, Garafolo, etc. have a pretty good idea of the team's thinking.
That all said, it could be different this year. If we take a QB, in my mind, they did a great job of misdirection.
What about the fact that Gettleman left the organization and realized like everyone else what a sieve of information the Giants are and only took the job under the condition that he not discuss the plans with Mara or Tisch until the day before the draft?
You honestly think John Mara isn't intimately involved with the #2 pick? Hell, he and Tisch have been taking these prospects out to dinner.
Gettleman was fired by the Panthers and is at retirement age. Was there even another team pursuing him?
Will find out for sure what the Giants do at #2 on the 26th but the one thing one can say with some certainty is that the value at #2 are the QBs. Either you take one for yourself or you trade out to whichever of Denver, Miami or Buffalo offers the most.
In that context I just don't see the Giants choice coming down to BPA. They are a professional NFL team and their draft plans, especially with the second pick overall, are going to be driven by a strategic plan. Either they feel they can win with ELi over the next 2-3 years - and that is certainly a possibility - and trade out and maximize what they can add at other positions, or they don't think Eli has much left in the tank and they take advantage of the fact that at #2 they'll be looking at the best QB prospects they are likely to see over the next 5 years.
Of course, it is also possible that the Giants have decided they don't see the value themselves in this year's top QB prospects, and we'll find out for sure in 12 days or so, but almost all the evidence out there suggests that is likely not the case. On the one hand, you have a half dozen other teams out there with top 15 picks that need an upgrade at QB and all appear to view this year's prospects at the position to be worthy of a top 2-3 pick. Maybe the Giants are an outlier and think otherwise but that would be a major stretch. At the same time, no team in the NFL has devoted more resources to checking out the QBs over the past 3-4 weeks than the Giants. And given that checking out players at pro days, private workouts and on-site visits is really about dotting the i's and crossing the t's from your scouting and coaching staffs' game day tape grades one can make a pretty good assumption that the Giants also have high grades on those players otherwise you don't waste your time.
The one curious aspect of the whole business is that after putting all those resources into checking out the QBs at their pro days etc. the 'leaks' that seem to be coming out of Giants' HQ are along the lines of "QBs; we don't want no stinking QB!!"
Let me add one other general comment before I throw out a little scuttlebutt: if you haven't decided on what you are doing with the second pick by now with just 12 days to go, you have some organizational issues whether you are a new admin or not! Same with the Browns.
Not sure what to make of it, but I had a source who is reasonably well connected suggest that what we may be seeing is a little intrigue at the top of the board. The Browns have long settled on Darnold, but believe that both the Giants and Jets want Rosen. What they'd really like to do is force the Giants to flip picks 1-2 just to make sure that the Browns don't flip the 1-3 picks with the Jets. The Browns aren't going to do that but they'd like the Giants to fear that they might so they have dangled the idea that they still haven't decided between Darnold and ALLen. Once the Browns say they have settled on a guy - and its not going to be Rosen - the likelihood they might deal goes away. Meanwhile, the Giants are doing everything they can to downplay their interest in any QB. Time will tell!
Will find out for sure what the Giants do at #2 on the 26th but the one thing one can say with some certainty is that the value at #2 are the QBs. Either you take one for yourself or you trade out to whichever of Denver, Miami or Buffalo offers the most.
In that context I just don't see the Giants choice coming down to BPA. They are a professional NFL team and their draft plans, especially with the second pick overall, are going to be driven by a strategic plan. Either they feel they can win with ELi over the next 2-3 years - and that is certainly a possibility - and trade out and maximize what they can add at other positions, or they don't think Eli has much left in the tank and they take advantage of the fact that at #2 they'll be looking at the best QB prospects they are likely to see over the next 5 years.
Of course, it is also possible that the Giants have decided they don't see the value themselves in this year's top QB prospects, and we'll find out for sure in 12 days or so, but almost all the evidence out there suggests that is likely not the case. On the one hand, you have a half dozen other teams out there with top 15 picks that need an upgrade at QB and all appear to view this year's prospects at the position to be worthy of a top 2-3 pick. Maybe the Giants are an outlier and think otherwise but that would be a major stretch. At the same time, no team in the NFL has devoted more resources to checking out the QBs over the past 3-4 weeks than the Giants. And given that checking out players at pro days, private workouts and on-site visits is really about dotting the i's and crossing the t's from your scouting and coaching staffs' game day tape grades one can make a pretty good assumption that the Giants also have high grades on those players otherwise you don't waste your time.
The one curious aspect of the whole business is that after putting all those resources into checking out the QBs at their pro days etc. the 'leaks' that seem to be coming out of Giants' HQ are along the lines of "QBs; we don't want no stinking QB!!"
Let me add one other general comment before I throw out a little scuttlebutt: if you haven't decided on what you are doing with the second pick by now with just 12 days to go, you have some organizational issues whether you are a new admin or not! Same with the Browns.
Not sure what to make of it, but I had a source who is reasonably well connected suggest that what we may be seeing is a little intrigue at the top of the board. The Browns have long settled on Darnold, but believe that both the Giants and Jets want Rosen. What they'd really like to do is force the Giants to flip picks 1-2 just to make sure that the Browns don't flip the 1-3 picks with the Jets. The Browns aren't going to do that but they'd like the Giants to fear that they might so they have dangled the idea that they still haven't decided between Darnold and ALLen. Once the Browns say they have settled on a guy - and its not going to be Rosen - the likelihood they might deal goes away. Meanwhile, the Giants are doing everything they can to downplay their interest in any QB. Time will tell!
Sounds like way to much speculating and intrigue to me. I agree with you though I believe the Browns are locked onto Darnold.
Its also probably true that Mara's involvement in making the 2nd pick is to ask DG when he tells him who the pick is going to be is to ask "is everybody on board with the decision" and he's going to want an honest answer.
In fact one can imagine a scenario in which DG told Mara that 'we have decided on player X' that DG also says something like "and this kid is going to be the face of the franchise for the next 10-15 years if everything works out and we think you and Steve should sit down with him and get to know him to confirm that you are indeed going to be comfortable with in that role." No names mentioned but ...
How could the Browns have any idea who the Giant or Jets will pick? I wouldn't at all be surprised if the Giants take Rosen, although I would be surprised if they traded up to do so. But nobody knows what they will do.
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Sy and Dave-te are both professionals who have been doing this for a long time
Their insisghts are invaluable
Haha. Was thinking the same when I read his post.
Sy’s opinion is by no means the end all be all, he’d be the first to tell you, but I’m going to trust him over 99.9% of BBI when t comes to scouting.
Posting something more meaningful than the opinions of us fans, that’s a low bar. We are fans...
Sy is a guy that seems to put time in and so he knows more than I, but too many on this site treat it as gospel. Sy might even agree. Remember, scouts and gms are disagreeing and working it all out in the war room. Draft is a crapshoot, his is one guy. Glad he shares his views here.
Those who say no one has a clue have been missing the constant theme for well over the past month: the Giants are going to take Barkley or Chubb with the #2 pick.
We'll see what goes down on draft day, but this is the storyline.
I’d like to see the giants take a QB but where there’s smoke there’s fire. I won’t be disappointed either way.
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In comment 13914393 Southern Man said:
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ahead of the Limerick Guy
+💯
In no world am I even in the same stratosphere as Sy when it comes to evaluating college talent.
I'm not attacking Sy at all. Re read what I wrote I am a big fan of what he does.
The response was due to a narrative that has been created around here that Sy is a top tier evaluator in the context of professionals. As for BBI, he is the king, in the world of real scouts and GMs I don't know how what he does compares to the pros. That's not a knock on the guy at all it's the difference between a DYI guy doing a home remodel or a contractor.
Plus, this site is just STARVED for information, and sy provides that. His are meaningful contributions to this site. But let’s not get too crazy. People disagree on draft picks and evaluations.
2. Part of the appeal in hiring Shurmur, I believe, aside from having this team finally score 30 points in a game, was getting his hands on a potential franchise QB. Yes Barkley would also help but you only make the RB pick if you have your QB IMO. We can all continue to argue if we have ours. I don’t think we do.
3. People want to negate next year’s QB class, but these GMs look at that. Next years class doesn’t present the prospects this year’s does.
I’m not here to say they are definitely drafting a QB, but just a counterpoint to those who are dismissing the idea. I think they should.
Also, is Gettleman’s age really a factor in the long-term future of this team?? How old was Accorsi when he drafted Eli? He was towards the end of his career but made that pick for the good of the franchise. I expect the same from DG whether it’s a QB or not, he’ll do what he thinks is best for the Giants.
With that, the browns might end up with their third favorite QB. In every hiring process I’ve been in, which is lots over decade, things are never equal. The browns have a qb in mind, they don’t know what the other teams really want to do and they are not going to lose their guy oby trading down. Trading out of 4 seems more likely for the Browns. Just my opinion man.
Right behind that would be them picking him at four.
Finally, the idea that the Browns know they want either Darnold or Allen but because they're convinced the NYG want Rosen they risk losing their QB to trade down.
All other possibilities seem credible to me right now.
@MikeSilver Apr 12
I would caution anyone making assumptions about which player(s) the Browns would likely take at 1 and 4 overall. Long way to go, lot of misinformation out there. I'm not allowed to tip picks but... stay tuned
Replying to @MikeSilver @egoldie80
I think 1 is already decided. This narrative that they are undecided is crap. I do think anything could happen with 4, including a trade.
@MikeSilver Apr 12
"I think"
@jasonwilson2121
Replying to @MikeSilver
Well, we all “think” unless we work for the Browns, right?
@MikeSilver Apr 12
Hierarchy:
1) Work for the Browns
2) Talk to people who work for the Browns
3) "I think"
stay tuned - ( New Window )
This is just silly. Based on Barkley's potential, he is not JUST a pro bowl RB.
You would take Steve Hutchison over LaDainian Tomlinson? Larry Allen ove Marshall Faulk?
The idea that an All World Guard is the better pick than a RB with Barkley's abilities is fucking adorable.
No offense Jim. But come on.
Does he get paid professionally to do scouting for a service that NFL teams use?
He's a professional scout.
Any worse than you will if they do?
At least Colin had the good sense to present his position with the possibility of other outcomes existing.