Lebron puts up ANOTHER incredible playoff performance 42/10/5 on 17/24 shooting. And his team needed every bit of it. For most guys that a career performance, for him it’s just another game.
And yet we’re talking about how the game is fixed, he’s whining, how can anybody root for him, etc. Its a joke. Normally smart posters made to look very silly here. Let’s have a better basketball discussion here than just complaining about the refs and claiming games are fixed.
Lebron puts up ANOTHER incredible playoff performance 42/10/5 on 17/24 shooting. And his team needed every bit of it. For most guys that a career performance, for him it’s just another game.
And yet we’re talking about how the game is fixed, he’s whining, how can anybody root for him, etc. Its a joke. Normally smart posters made to look very silly here. Let’s have a better basketball discussion here than just complaining about the refs and claiming games are fixed.
You’re better than this. I know you know the game but you let emotion blind you. This is one of the three greatest players of all time. Performing as well in year 15 as he did in year 5. It’s remarkable.
You’re better than this. I know you know the game but you let emotion blind you. This is one of the three greatest players of all time. Performing as well in year 15 as he did in year 5. It’s remarkable.
There is no doubt he is one of the greatest. He has already cemented being the 2nd best player ever. Thats not my problem. I love watching Lebron dominated.
But everytime the Cavs need a win, the same shit happens. Look at last night. Oladipo two fouls in the first minute. A bogus third on him in the 2nd period. A terrible intentional foul called on the Pacers. Pacers couldnt buy a call. Every time Indiana made a run - not a close call went against them, an outrageous one.
If Lebron came out and won by 100 doing this, I would be like - yep... Bron being Bron. But the game was set up right from the start for the Pacers to fail. The one good thing about this game was at least they didnt try to hide it ;)
If your thesis is true, that “everytime the Cavs need a win, the same shit happens” and the refs bail him out (it’s not and they don’t), would you care to explain the playoff/finals losses that LeBron haters like to throw in his face? Or does it just work both ways?
If your thesis is true, that “everytime the Cavs need a win, the same shit happens” and the refs bail him out (it’s not and they don’t), would you care to explain the playoff/finals losses that LeBron haters like to throw in his face? Or does it just work both ways?
How many straight years has he made it to the finals? No Lebron in the finals means ratings drop dramatically. So once he gets there, it doesnt matter.
as they do in all sports? And not that there's a big conspiracy and the fix is in?
You lose me when you start claiming conspiracy. And using Lebron always making the finals as evidence just doesn't hold water. The 2nd greatest player of all time, playing in the weaker conference is going to make the Finals in this sport. That's just the nature of it.
And he typically does so with very little resistance. There's no 2002 Kings/Lakers game 6 type game for him to point to as evidence. I can count on one hand the number of times his back has truly been against the wall pre-finals in this run since 2011. Celtics up 3-2 in 2012 (when he had maybe his best playoff game ever), down 2-1 to Chicago in 2015, down 2-1 to Indiana I think in 2012. That's about it, and those last two are a stretch. You could argue last night would qualify as well, and he reacted accordingly
My point being, he typically rolls to the Finals because he is that good, and the competition isn't too strong. There is no place for a league conspiracy or referee intervention there.
There's some really interesting things happening in the league right now. You're going to lose me when conspiracy theories start flying around
ratings for the opening Saturday of the playoffs were up nearly 20% across the board. I believe they are past the point of needing certain teams in the Finals to get a good rating, much like the NFL.
In 2002, they definitely needed the Lakers. Now, whether it's Cleveland, Houston, Philly, Golden State, OKC, whoever, viewership would be strong.
The league's two marquee franchises in the two largest markets have been largely terrible for at least the past five years and viewership continues to grow.
If ratings were what the league cares about at all costs Â
I agree with Kyle. I don't think it's a conspiracy. I just think some of these official flat out suck. Obviously LBJ gets some calls that others won't, but it's always been that way. Look at MJ.
Lebron gets calls in the NBA like every superstar before him. Â
as they do in all sports? And not that there's a big conspiracy and the fix is in?
You lose me when you start claiming conspiracy. And using Lebron always making the finals as evidence just doesn't hold water. The 2nd greatest player of all time, playing in the weaker conference is going to make the Finals in this sport. That's just the nature of it.
And he typically does so with very little resistance. There's no 2002 Kings/Lakers game 6 type game for him to point to as evidence. I can count on one hand the number of times his back has truly been against the wall pre-finals in this run since 2011. Celtics up 3-2 in 2012 (when he had maybe his best playoff game ever), down 2-1 to Chicago in 2015, down 2-1 to Indiana I think in 2012. That's about it, and those last two are a stretch. You could argue last night would qualify as well, and he reacted accordingly
My point being, he typically rolls to the Finals because he is that good, and the competition isn't too strong. There is no place for a league conspiracy or referee intervention there.
There's some really interesting things happening in the league right now. You're going to lose me when conspiracy theories start flying around
Kyle, I do agree with a lot of whatyou said. But these calls arent missed calls, they are outrageously bad. As a huge NBA fan, it takes the fun out of just watching the game. Do you want to watch a game where the refs take the teams best player out of the game in the first minute?
And I do disagee that the NBA doesnt need Lebron in the finals. They do. Outside of Philly, no one in the east would bring an audience to the finals. So if Philly plays cleveland - I wouldnt harp on it as much. But do you really believe the NBA wants to see a GS/Houston and Raptors finals? Or the crippled Celtics? I just dont see it.
Lebron goes to the finals because he is on the best team, you are right. But if there is a time he has a little scare - then I come a little more interested how the game is officiated. I mean last night he shot more free throws than the other team. The other teams best player was taken out of the game early and again in the 2nd quarter.
And again, this isnt Lebron getting calls - its the other team NOT getting them as well.
so I didn't catch Oladipo's first two fouls. I'll take your word for it that they were poor calls. The foul on the Love three was definitely a poor call.
But there are poor calls all around. Noticed a number of them in the fourth quarter of OKC/Utah. It's just how it goes. And superstars definitely get the benefit of them. But not because the league is telling them to handle it that way.
Are there more viewers if Lebron is in the finals? Probably. But my argument is the league is past the point where it has to worry about that. The relative difference in viewership isn't large enough if it's Philly instead of Cleveland that they need to start intervening.
certainly Toronto doesn't bring in as big a number. But it's still going to be highly watched and from what I've seen from Silver, I think he would welcome some new blood in the Finals.
Heard him speak at the Sloan conference a year ago and we could tell he wasn't exactly thrilled about Durant in GS and what it did to competitive balance.
certainly Toronto doesn't bring in as big a number. But it's still going to be highly watched and from what I've seen from Silver, I think he would welcome some new blood in the Finals.
Heard him speak at the Sloan conference a year ago and we could tell he wasn't exactly thrilled about Durant in GS and what it did to competitive balance.
If Silver wants competitive balance, they need a hard cap. This is so ridiculous how much players have control over their contracts. I am not saying they dont deserve a chance to get as much money as possible. But it dictates who plays where and who they want to play with.
RE: RE: Could it just be that NBA refs miss calls Â
as they do in all sports? And not that there's a big conspiracy and the fix is in?
You lose me when you start claiming conspiracy. And using Lebron always making the finals as evidence just doesn't hold water. The 2nd greatest player of all time, playing in the weaker conference is going to make the Finals in this sport. That's just the nature of it.
And he typically does so with very little resistance. There's no 2002 Kings/Lakers game 6 type game for him to point to as evidence. I can count on one hand the number of times his back has truly been against the wall pre-finals in this run since 2011. Celtics up 3-2 in 2012 (when he had maybe his best playoff game ever), down 2-1 to Chicago in 2015, down 2-1 to Indiana I think in 2012. That's about it, and those last two are a stretch. You could argue last night would qualify as well, and he reacted accordingly
My point being, he typically rolls to the Finals because he is that good, and the competition isn't too strong. There is no place for a league conspiracy or referee intervention there.
There's some really interesting things happening in the league right now. You're going to lose me when conspiracy theories start flying around
Kyle, I do agree with a lot of whatyou said. But these calls arent missed calls, they are outrageously bad. As a huge NBA fan, it takes the fun out of just watching the game. Do you want to watch a game where the refs take the teams best player out of the game in the first minute?
And I do disagee that the NBA doesnt need Lebron in the finals. They do. Outside of Philly, no one in the east would bring an audience to the finals. So if Philly plays cleveland - I wouldnt harp on it as much. But do you really believe the NBA wants to see a GS/Houston and Raptors finals? Or the crippled Celtics? I just dont see it.
Lebron goes to the finals because he is on the best team, you are right. But if there is a time he has a little scare - then I come a little more interested how the game is officiated. I mean last night he shot more free throws than the other team. The other teams best player was taken out of the game early and again in the 2nd quarter.
And again, this isnt Lebron getting calls - its the other team NOT getting them as well.
Agree, NBA wants Lebron, it just makes sense, best player, most marketable asset and well known name, but it seems like the Celtics always bring good ratings - I think they'd be ok with the C's over the Raptors or anyone other than CLE.
those Lakers Celtics finals are some of the best I've seen (though I am admittedly biased).
I don't think the NBA would mind if the Celtics somehow advance far enough to knock off CLE in a long series (though I believe that's unlikely).
hardest sport of officiate and football is the only sport that might even be close. You see the same types of passionate complaints from college basketball fans all across the country when they feel their team or the team they are rooting for isn't getting the calls.
The refs aren't going to be able to call "perfect" games or anything close that. All you can hope for is that the league evaluates officials by looking at tape, let's officials know bad habits or common mistakes that they make and put pressure on them to improve.
Some misses look egregious, but there's a lot of fans who get too caught up in every call and I think it's not a fun way to watch a basketball game. If you think there's some conspiracy to help Lebron get to the finals, then I'm not sure why you'd even waste your finite time watching the games.
I think the league would be OK with Cleveland, Boston, or Philly making the Finals. Toronto would be a TV nightmare. DeRozan and Lowry are nice players, but they're not marquee names & the Raptors don't have a huge fan base, though I'm sure Toronto the city would go crazy for them.
My ideal Finals matchup would be Houston Philly. Some new blood to shake things up. The ratings would be pretty damn good too.
I will jsut add something to your post about the game last night. If Lebron James (or James Harden, CP3) were called for the fouls that Oladipo were last night, they would have argued and complained. Then go the reporters last night and cry that they dont get those calls and that the referees have agendas.
Oladipo pleaded a little and was respectful after the game. I dont think I grew a player as much as I do in Oladipo. FOr what he had to put up with last year to having an amazing year this year..... hands down most improved player and one of the best two way players in the game.
in terms of viewership? I mean they have a whole country essentially rooting for 1 team, Toronto itself is a major city in the whole world, does it really lag THAT much?
And if there's a lack of interest it would be from the Raptor's historically poor track record, not because there's a lack of population compared to cities like Milwaukee and NO.
Personally I think the NBA would love for the Raptors to win rings, because as stated above, they would get a whole entire COUNTRY behind 1 team.
in terms of viewership? I mean they have a whole country essentially rooting for 1 team, Toronto itself is a major city in the whole world, does it really lag THAT much?
And if there's a lack of interest it would be from the Raptor's historically poor track record, not because there's a lack of population compared to cities like Milwaukee and NO.
Personally I think the NBA would love for the Raptors to win rings, because as stated above, they would get a whole entire COUNTRY behind 1 team.
Solid points and I was thinking that too prior to my post. Toronto is the fourth biggest city in North America & they have a pretty rabid fan base in Canada. You might be wrong. The casual American fan probably could care less about the Raptors, but they'd probably draw in casual Canadian basketball fans.
in terms of viewership? I mean they have a whole country essentially rooting for 1 team, Toronto itself is a major city in the whole world, does it really lag THAT much?
And if there's a lack of interest it would be from the Raptor's historically poor track record, not because there's a lack of population compared to cities like Milwaukee and NO.
Personally I think the NBA would love for the Raptors to win rings, because as stated above, they would get a whole entire COUNTRY behind 1 team.
Yes. Derozan and Lowry are good players but they arent household names. I mean look all the buzz that Lebron gets. Look at Simmons/Embiid. Look at Boston pre injury. If you brought up Toronto, the main response would be - yeah, they are ok.
Plus, I think they would get demolished by either GS or Houston (demolished meaning 5 games max). At least Lebron is usually good enough to get them to 6 or 7. Philly can give teams fits.
If Toronto plays a team from West and gets clobbered the first two games - is anyone really going to watch? I doubt it.
Canada has a very diverse population mix (especially Toronto). It seems everyone I know, friends and family, that live in Canada are interested in the NBA. I'm Indian and i'd figure that most Indian millennial males follow basketball in some regard, and even the broader Asian population does so as well. And Canada has the NHL but not MLB or NFL really to compete with (not sure how big CFL is relatively up there). And Indian people don't ice skate.
wouldn't be too bad for overall ratings (especially if vs Golden State). They'd do huge numbers in Canada. The USA TV deal is separate, so ABC/ESPN doesn't get credit for the millions of Canadians that would watch.
Vancouver was a good idea and I think the NBA should've tried harder to make it work. With the Sonics going to OKC, the NBA blew a chance to have some really fun Pacific Northwest rivalries with POR, SEA and VAN.
These cities are packing in 20K + to MLS games and the Blazers have done well in Portland for a while. the NBA blew it there IMO.
in terms of viewership? I mean they have a whole country essentially rooting for 1 team, Toronto itself is a major city in the whole world, does it really lag THAT much?
And if there's a lack of interest it would be from the Raptor's historically poor track record, not because there's a lack of population compared to cities like Milwaukee and NO.
Personally I think the NBA would love for the Raptors to win rings, because as stated above, they would get a whole entire COUNTRY behind 1 team.
I read (can't remember where)the reason why Toronto got all the early games in the MLB playoffs had to do with the revenue and that MLB doesn't get as much from them as it does US markets. NBA may have something similar.
Vancouver was a good idea and I think the NBA should've tried harder to make it work. With the Sonics going to OKC, the NBA blew a chance to have some really fun Pacific Northwest rivalries with POR, SEA and VAN.
These cities are packing in 20K + to MLS games and the Blazers have done well in Portland for a while. the NBA blew it there IMO.
I'd be shocked if Seattle doesn't have an NBA team within the next decade.
How people root for him anymore is beyond me.
How people root for him anymore is beyond me.
Still love how he says he doesn't flop..
Good job refs.
Good job refs.
That wasn’t a good call at all.
They showed it on the TNT broadcast. That’s rough.
One of the biggest fixed games since lakers Kings. Oh ed Malloy is reffing. SUrprosong.
This has blowout written all over it.
And yet we’re talking about how the game is fixed, he’s whining, how can anybody root for him, etc. Its a joke. Normally smart posters made to look very silly here. Let’s have a better basketball discussion here than just complaining about the refs and claiming games are fixed.
And yet we’re talking about how the game is fixed, he’s whining, how can anybody root for him, etc. Its a joke. Normally smart posters made to look very silly here. Let’s have a better basketball discussion here than just complaining about the refs and claiming games are fixed.
He schooled Brian Bogdonovich. Awesome.
There is no doubt he is one of the greatest. He has already cemented being the 2nd best player ever. Thats not my problem. I love watching Lebron dominated.
But everytime the Cavs need a win, the same shit happens. Look at last night. Oladipo two fouls in the first minute. A bogus third on him in the 2nd period. A terrible intentional foul called on the Pacers. Pacers couldnt buy a call. Every time Indiana made a run - not a close call went against them, an outrageous one.
If Lebron came out and won by 100 doing this, I would be like - yep... Bron being Bron. But the game was set up right from the start for the Pacers to fail. The one good thing about this game was at least they didnt try to hide it ;)
My problem isnt with Lebron - its with the NBA.
How many straight years has he made it to the finals? No Lebron in the finals means ratings drop dramatically. So once he gets there, it doesnt matter.
Embiid doubtful to play tonight. That sucks.
You lose me when you start claiming conspiracy. And using Lebron always making the finals as evidence just doesn't hold water. The 2nd greatest player of all time, playing in the weaker conference is going to make the Finals in this sport. That's just the nature of it.
And he typically does so with very little resistance. There's no 2002 Kings/Lakers game 6 type game for him to point to as evidence. I can count on one hand the number of times his back has truly been against the wall pre-finals in this run since 2011. Celtics up 3-2 in 2012 (when he had maybe his best playoff game ever), down 2-1 to Chicago in 2015, down 2-1 to Indiana I think in 2012. That's about it, and those last two are a stretch. You could argue last night would qualify as well, and he reacted accordingly
My point being, he typically rolls to the Finals because he is that good, and the competition isn't too strong. There is no place for a league conspiracy or referee intervention there.
There's some really interesting things happening in the league right now. You're going to lose me when conspiracy theories start flying around
In 2002, they definitely needed the Lakers. Now, whether it's Cleveland, Houston, Philly, Golden State, OKC, whoever, viewership would be strong.
The league's two marquee franchises in the two largest markets have been largely terrible for at least the past five years and viewership continues to grow.
I'd argue the league is better off for it. It's a star's game.
You lose me when you start claiming conspiracy. And using Lebron always making the finals as evidence just doesn't hold water. The 2nd greatest player of all time, playing in the weaker conference is going to make the Finals in this sport. That's just the nature of it.
And he typically does so with very little resistance. There's no 2002 Kings/Lakers game 6 type game for him to point to as evidence. I can count on one hand the number of times his back has truly been against the wall pre-finals in this run since 2011. Celtics up 3-2 in 2012 (when he had maybe his best playoff game ever), down 2-1 to Chicago in 2015, down 2-1 to Indiana I think in 2012. That's about it, and those last two are a stretch. You could argue last night would qualify as well, and he reacted accordingly
My point being, he typically rolls to the Finals because he is that good, and the competition isn't too strong. There is no place for a league conspiracy or referee intervention there.
There's some really interesting things happening in the league right now. You're going to lose me when conspiracy theories start flying around
Kyle, I do agree with a lot of whatyou said. But these calls arent missed calls, they are outrageously bad. As a huge NBA fan, it takes the fun out of just watching the game. Do you want to watch a game where the refs take the teams best player out of the game in the first minute?
And I do disagee that the NBA doesnt need Lebron in the finals. They do. Outside of Philly, no one in the east would bring an audience to the finals. So if Philly plays cleveland - I wouldnt harp on it as much. But do you really believe the NBA wants to see a GS/Houston and Raptors finals? Or the crippled Celtics? I just dont see it.
Lebron goes to the finals because he is on the best team, you are right. But if there is a time he has a little scare - then I come a little more interested how the game is officiated. I mean last night he shot more free throws than the other team. The other teams best player was taken out of the game early and again in the 2nd quarter.
And again, this isnt Lebron getting calls - its the other team NOT getting them as well.
But there are poor calls all around. Noticed a number of them in the fourth quarter of OKC/Utah. It's just how it goes. And superstars definitely get the benefit of them. But not because the league is telling them to handle it that way.
Are there more viewers if Lebron is in the finals? Probably. But my argument is the league is past the point where it has to worry about that. The relative difference in viewership isn't large enough if it's Philly instead of Cleveland that they need to start intervening.
Heard him speak at the Sloan conference a year ago and we could tell he wasn't exactly thrilled about Durant in GS and what it did to competitive balance.
Heard him speak at the Sloan conference a year ago and we could tell he wasn't exactly thrilled about Durant in GS and what it did to competitive balance.
If Silver wants competitive balance, they need a hard cap. This is so ridiculous how much players have control over their contracts. I am not saying they dont deserve a chance to get as much money as possible. But it dictates who plays where and who they want to play with.
Quote:
as they do in all sports? And not that there's a big conspiracy and the fix is in?
You lose me when you start claiming conspiracy. And using Lebron always making the finals as evidence just doesn't hold water. The 2nd greatest player of all time, playing in the weaker conference is going to make the Finals in this sport. That's just the nature of it.
And he typically does so with very little resistance. There's no 2002 Kings/Lakers game 6 type game for him to point to as evidence. I can count on one hand the number of times his back has truly been against the wall pre-finals in this run since 2011. Celtics up 3-2 in 2012 (when he had maybe his best playoff game ever), down 2-1 to Chicago in 2015, down 2-1 to Indiana I think in 2012. That's about it, and those last two are a stretch. You could argue last night would qualify as well, and he reacted accordingly
My point being, he typically rolls to the Finals because he is that good, and the competition isn't too strong. There is no place for a league conspiracy or referee intervention there.
There's some really interesting things happening in the league right now. You're going to lose me when conspiracy theories start flying around
Kyle, I do agree with a lot of whatyou said. But these calls arent missed calls, they are outrageously bad. As a huge NBA fan, it takes the fun out of just watching the game. Do you want to watch a game where the refs take the teams best player out of the game in the first minute?
And I do disagee that the NBA doesnt need Lebron in the finals. They do. Outside of Philly, no one in the east would bring an audience to the finals. So if Philly plays cleveland - I wouldnt harp on it as much. But do you really believe the NBA wants to see a GS/Houston and Raptors finals? Or the crippled Celtics? I just dont see it.
Lebron goes to the finals because he is on the best team, you are right. But if there is a time he has a little scare - then I come a little more interested how the game is officiated. I mean last night he shot more free throws than the other team. The other teams best player was taken out of the game early and again in the 2nd quarter.
And again, this isnt Lebron getting calls - its the other team NOT getting them as well.
Agree, NBA wants Lebron, it just makes sense, best player, most marketable asset and well known name, but it seems like the Celtics always bring good ratings - I think they'd be ok with the C's over the Raptors or anyone other than CLE.
those Lakers Celtics finals are some of the best I've seen (though I am admittedly biased).
I don't think the NBA would mind if the Celtics somehow advance far enough to knock off CLE in a long series (though I believe that's unlikely).
The refs aren't going to be able to call "perfect" games or anything close that. All you can hope for is that the league evaluates officials by looking at tape, let's officials know bad habits or common mistakes that they make and put pressure on them to improve.
Some misses look egregious, but there's a lot of fans who get too caught up in every call and I think it's not a fun way to watch a basketball game. If you think there's some conspiracy to help Lebron get to the finals, then I'm not sure why you'd even waste your finite time watching the games.
My ideal Finals matchup would be Houston Philly. Some new blood to shake things up. The ratings would be pretty damn good too.
Oladipo pleaded a little and was respectful after the game. I dont think I grew a player as much as I do in Oladipo. FOr what he had to put up with last year to having an amazing year this year..... hands down most improved player and one of the best two way players in the game.
And if there's a lack of interest it would be from the Raptor's historically poor track record, not because there's a lack of population compared to cities like Milwaukee and NO.
Personally I think the NBA would love for the Raptors to win rings, because as stated above, they would get a whole entire COUNTRY behind 1 team.
And if there's a lack of interest it would be from the Raptor's historically poor track record, not because there's a lack of population compared to cities like Milwaukee and NO.
Personally I think the NBA would love for the Raptors to win rings, because as stated above, they would get a whole entire COUNTRY behind 1 team.
Solid points and I was thinking that too prior to my post. Toronto is the fourth biggest city in North America & they have a pretty rabid fan base in Canada. You might be wrong. The casual American fan probably could care less about the Raptors, but they'd probably draw in casual Canadian basketball fans.
I didn't mean to write 'You might be wrong'.
And if there's a lack of interest it would be from the Raptor's historically poor track record, not because there's a lack of population compared to cities like Milwaukee and NO.
Personally I think the NBA would love for the Raptors to win rings, because as stated above, they would get a whole entire COUNTRY behind 1 team.
Yes. Derozan and Lowry are good players but they arent household names. I mean look all the buzz that Lebron gets. Look at Simmons/Embiid. Look at Boston pre injury. If you brought up Toronto, the main response would be - yeah, they are ok.
Plus, I think they would get demolished by either GS or Houston (demolished meaning 5 games max). At least Lebron is usually good enough to get them to 6 or 7. Philly can give teams fits.
If Toronto plays a team from West and gets clobbered the first two games - is anyone really going to watch? I doubt it.
Yeha yeah, 2nd year. Yeah yeah they made the playoffs.
But man, awful last night. KAT and Wiggins stagnant. Teague was disgraceful last night. How they gave him roster control is a mystery.
These cities are packing in 20K + to MLS games and the Blazers have done well in Portland for a while. the NBA blew it there IMO.
And if there's a lack of interest it would be from the Raptor's historically poor track record, not because there's a lack of population compared to cities like Milwaukee and NO.
Personally I think the NBA would love for the Raptors to win rings, because as stated above, they would get a whole entire COUNTRY behind 1 team.
I read (can't remember where)the reason why Toronto got all the early games in the MLB playoffs had to do with the revenue and that MLB doesn't get as much from them as it does US markets. NBA may have something similar.
These cities are packing in 20K + to MLS games and the Blazers have done well in Portland for a while. the NBA blew it there IMO.
I'd be shocked if Seattle doesn't have an NBA team within the next decade.