I have a friend in the business, no direct connection to any one team. It is the same friend that told me about the Solder signing before it happened (Which I posted the signing and number of years before the story broke in the press on this board).
Anyway, he has told me the Browns organization is debating how to best ensure they get both Allen and Barkley. The current thinking is to take Barkley at one knowing the Giants will be forced to pick Darnold and the Jets prefer Rosen, thus ensuring Allen at 4. The only fear is the Jets in this scenario taking Allen.
They are afraid if they leave a choice of Darnold or Barkley to the Giants, they will choose Barkley.
My own opinion here, I could see the Browns inquiring with the Giants about pick 2.
A) Taking Barkley at 1.
B) Trading up to 2.
I believe the Browns know that the stable of picks they have, particularly at the top of round 2, with picks at #33 and #35 (and another at 64 for that matter), that they would forgo those picks unless they were trading back into the first round for a player they really liked, which would be a 3rd first round pick for them.
This is the best chance for them to make a huge turnaround of their franchise adding 4 top 35 picks to their team, the QB at the top of their board, and the one of the top 2 position players.
I think that's incredibly difficult to pass that up. I've said before, 25 years. 25 years of not having a franchise QB. If they dick around, and take Barkley at #1, then they really risk not getting their QB, because the Giants could yet still trade down with the Bills or Broncos, who could then take their desired QB. I think if Dorsey goes anything but QB at #1, he will have to answer to a very angry fan base, particularly if the QB they grab at 4 doesn't pan out. It's a disaster waiting to happen and one that could cost jobs.
The one thing I am concerned about is their love for Barkley. I really do want him as a Giant and will be pretty bummed if he's not, no matter who the player is we get. I'll get over it. However, if the Browns do love Barkley as much as it sounds like they do (and what's not to like), the bad news for the Giants is that there likely isn't a way to get him after a trade down, even to the Broncos at #5. Theoretically, the Giants could trade down to 5, and perhaps trade back up 1 spot to the Browns at 4, but if they love Barkley this much, throwing an extra pick or two at them isn't likely going to entice them enough to part with the chance of drafting Saquon.
It's starting to sound like the Giants simply must either take Barkley at 2, or trade down and resign themselves to getting the next best thing and more players.
If that's the case, and I'm Gettleman, that's what I do, is just take Barkley at 2, and be happy I'm getting the best offensive weapon to come out of the draft for a very long time.
A) Taking Barkley at 1.
B) Trading up to 2.
I believe the Browns know that the stable of picks they have, particularly at the top of round 2, with picks at #33 and #35 (and another at 64 for that matter), that they would forgo those picks unless they were trading back into the first round for a player they really liked, which would be a 3rd first round pick for them.
This is the best chance for them to make a huge turnaround of their franchise adding 4 top 35 picks to their team, the QB at the top of their board, and the one of the top 2 position players.
I think that's incredibly difficult to pass that up. I've said before, 25 years. 25 years of not having a franchise QB. If they dick around, and take Barkley at #1, then they really risk not getting their QB, because the Giants could yet still trade down with the Bills or Broncos, who could then take their desired QB. I think if Dorsey goes anything but QB at #1, he will have to answer to a very angry fan base, particularly if the QB they grab at 4 doesn't pan out. It's a disaster waiting to happen and one that could cost jobs.
The one thing I am concerned about is their love for Barkley. I really do want him as a Giant and will be pretty bummed if he's not, no matter who the player is we get. I'll get over it. However, if the Browns do love Barkley as much as it sounds like they do (and what's not to like), the bad news for the Giants is that there likely isn't a way to get him after a trade down, even to the Broncos at #5. Theoretically, the Giants could trade down to 5, and perhaps trade back up 1 spot to the Browns at 4, but if they love Barkley this much, throwing an extra pick or two at them isn't likely going to entice them enough to part with the chance of drafting Saquon.
It's starting to sound like the Giants simply must either take Barkley at 2, or trade down and resign themselves to getting the next best thing and more players.
If that's the case, and I'm Gettleman, that's what I do, is just take Barkley at 2, and be happy I'm getting the best offensive weapon to come out of the draft for a very long time.
Unless... The following is considered 'too cute'...
Giants take Barkley at 2, call the Browns when they are on the clock, and work out a deal....
Take Rosen, along with a slew of picks...
So tasty
Though its not sexy, Id learn to like Chubb too. 🤯🕺🏽
I've read in a few different places writers saying their own sources tell them the Browns are trying to get the Giants to trade up to first overall. This lends credence to the idea the Browns prefer Allen to Darnold.
I've read in a few different places writers saying their own sources tell them the Browns are trying to get the Giants to trade up to first overall. This lends credence to the idea the Browns prefer Allen to Darnold.
Agree. If Darnold is there,DG should send in the pick almost immediately. Unless some team then overwhelms him,then he'll have to decide if Sam is Gold Jacket quality!
Like JonC has said for some time now I think the Giants want Darnold or Barkley. Their current interest in Allen and Chubb could be genuine but I think it is to make the Browns think they have to trade with the Giants from 4 to 2. I believe the Jets were ok with going to #3 because they feel they can snag either Mayfield or Rosen. I think they want Mayfield but it could be Rosen. I think they know that the Giants and the Browns both have no real interest in Mayfield or Rosen.
I also think that Denver is going to sit tight because they know a QB will fall to them at 5 but if they don't I outlined an trade idea below.
All this misdirection is between the Browns and Giants. Honestly the only trade down I can see is the Giant sliding to 4.
At that rate the Browns go:
Allen/Darnold
Barkley
Jets go
Mayfield/Rosen/(Darnold or Allen)
Giants get the Browns #35 and #64 and they pick
(Darnold, Mayfield, Allen or Rosen)
Chubb
Nelson
or they could trade back with Denver and get another 2nd rounder and maybe a 1st next year and then still pick
the remainder of(Darnold, Mayfield, Allen or Rosen)
Chubb
Nelson.
All this talk is chess moves.
DG is playing it perfectly. To me it seems like he is the one in the drivers seat, not Dorsey.
The #2 pick is a really great place to be if you want to maximize return.
If the Giants are really at Barkley or Darnold then there is no way the Giants trade with Browns and move down to 4.
Imo, the Browns should do this as they are offered the unique opportunity to pull it off based on how this draft order fell and the capital they maintain.
Imo, the Browns should do this as they are offered the unique opportunity to pull it off based on how this draft order fell and the capital they maintain.
+100000
and the only way i would do it would be for their 2 #2s and next year's 1.
otherwise stay and take your first choice.
Like JonC has said for some time now I think the Giants want Darnold or Barkley. Their current interest in Allen and Chubb could be genuine but I think it is to make the Browns think they have to trade with the Giants from 4 to 2. I believe the Jets were ok with going to #3 because they feel they can snag either Mayfield or Rosen. I think they want Mayfield but it could be Rosen. I think they know that the Giants and the Browns both have no real interest in Mayfield or Rosen.
I also think that Denver is going to sit tight because they know a QB will fall to them at 5 but if they don't I outlined an trade idea below.
All this misdirection is between the Browns and Giants. Honestly the only trade down I can see is the Giant sliding to 4.
At that rate the Browns go:
Allen/Darnold
Barkley
Jets go
Mayfield/Rosen/(Darnold or Allen)
Giants get the Browns #35 and #64 and they pick
(Darnold, Mayfield, Allen or Rosen)
Chubb
Nelson
or they could trade back with Denver and get another 2nd rounder and maybe a 1st next year and then still pick
the remainder of(Darnold, Mayfield, Allen or Rosen)
Chubb
Nelson.
All this talk is chess moves.
DG is playing it perfectly. To me it seems like he is the one in the drivers seat, not Dorsey.
The #2 pick is a really great place to be if you want to maximize return.
JonC has been very clear so far that he has not heard anything and has been stating his opinion.
It makes sense that if the Browns believe the Giants would choose Barkley over Darnold, the safest path to getting both their guys would be to take Barkley first.
The interesting thing in this scenerio is that it is the Jets that could screw up their plans.
I would be disappointed if Darnold were there at #2 and the Giants don't take him.
But your info is encouraging for those that want Darnold.
Thanks for sharing and ignore any who always feel the need to be jerks on these types of posts. Most of us love them
For pick #2, Cleveland should have to trade 33,64 and at least another pick, maybe the first pick of round 4.
Think back to 2004. NYG traded, Rivers, 2004 3rd round, 2005 1st and 5th round picks, to basically move up 4 places. The Browns are trying to move up 2 places but the value of the pick is so much more because I think other teams want the pick too.
Gettlemen has his price but more importantly, does he think any player is truly worth the 2nd overall pick? The answer may be NO and the idea of more picks is worth the 2nd round pick.
Personally, regardless of the Giants QB situation, Barkley is the best player in the draft and worth the 2nd pick, Neslon is next then Chubb. Rosen is most polished QB and Darnold is the guy who has the most potential. He is young but has a knack of winning and making things happen.
Here is the thing: NYG will still have a chance at One of the QB's. If they know who Cleveland is taking and who NYJ wants, this could work out unbelievable if they drop to pick4. Maybe get you QB, but if not, the best OL or the best Edge guy in the draft, plus an additional 3 picks this year.
If they take Barkley 1st, I guess the Giants go Darnold 2nd (prefer Rosen), Jets may take Allen, leaving Cleveland Rosen and Mayfield.
But it really comes down to who is their #1 QB and do they view Barkley more important than QB.
The Jets are obviously taking a QB. The Giants are either going to take a QB, or, with Allen off the board and Darnold/Rosen still there, some team will make the Giants an offer they can't refuse and draft a QB.
If they take Barkley at #1 they're insane.
Now if they want to move from #4 to #2 and give up both 2nd round picks, I think the Giants would do it, and get Darnold or Rosen at #4.
Michael Silver
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I would caution anyone making assumptions about which player(s) the Browns would likely take at 1 and 4 overall. Long way to go, lot of misinformation out there. I'm not allowed to tip picks but... stay tuned
Consolation prize Darnold or Rosen (which only sucks if their is something about whichever one is left that they really don't like). Not bad.
They do not want Darnold and Allen to go 2 and 3 as they are not high on Rosen at all due to the injuries.
If Darnold is truly the prize over Barkley then Browns could take Allen or Barkley #1 and still get their guy at 4.
Giants could trade down and another team could take their QB too. I dont see Browns risking losing their QB.A franchise QB when push comes to shove (if your team has decided they need one) will trump any other guy no matter how good he is.
They do not want Darnold and Allen to go 2 and 3 as they are not high on Rosen at all due to the injuries.
Again, what is more important to the Browns, QB or RB? They have crapped the bed over the last 20 years in QB picks. They have a chance to get it right this year and then get Chubb at #4 and a very good RB at #33...
Quote:
the only thing stopping the Browns from taking Barkley at 1 is the Jets.
They do not want Darnold and Allen to go 2 and 3 as they are not high on Rosen at all due to the injuries.
Again, what is more important to the Browns, QB or RB? They have crapped the bed over the last 20 years in QB picks. They have a chance to get it right this year and then get Chubb at #4 and a very good RB at #33...
I agree with you, I think if they do this, they are nuts and I think they should value the QB over the RB.
I do think it is wise for them to explore everything to see if they can get their top 2 players.
Agreed. Darnold or Barkley, in that order. Rosen would be mildly surprising, but not stunning. Allen even more so. Mayfield would be shocking.
A trade down is possible, and what I prefer, but I don't think it would be past Denver at five, and would have to include a first round pick next year. I'd be stunned if we traded with Buffalo.
"Don't get cute."
Quote:
the only thing stopping the Browns from taking Barkley at 1 is the Jets.
They do not want Darnold and Allen to go 2 and 3 as they are not high on Rosen at all due to the injuries.
Again, what is more important to the Browns, QB or RB? They have crapped the bed over the last 20 years in QB picks. They have a chance to get it right this year and then get Chubb at #4 and a very good RB at #33...
Browns should probably take Darnold at 1 and then Rosen at 4.
But if the Browns do take Barkley, then they will have to trade up with the Giants to guarantee that they get Allen. The problem for the Giants is that the Jets would presumably take Darnold at three. But Rosen at #4, and a bunch of picks, might be enough for DG and Shurmur.
Less than two weeks to go.
Or what if Denver trades with the Giants and takes Allen with #2.
IMO, its too risky for the browns to pass up at Allen at #1 If they really feel he is the QB they want.
And Giants dont want QB
Then isnt a Clev trade to 2 from the 4 pick very logical?
Giants still get Chubb plus draft picks. Browns have them to deal
Or
If Browns want Allen & Barkley and Giants only want Darnold
Then they should fo a reasonable trade with Giants for the 1 pick
The only scenario where this doesnt work is Browns want Darnold/Barkley and Giants want Barkley or Darnold.
But if the Browns do take Barkley, then they will have to trade up with the Giants to guarantee that they get Allen. The problem for the Giants is that the Jets would presumably take Darnold at three. But Rosen at #4, and a bunch of picks, might be enough for DG and Shurmur.
Less than two weeks to go.
Darnold is a going #1 to the Browns. Forgot the noise about Allen he's way over-hyped.
...thanks so much for posting.
I know less than sh**, but I must say that your scenario makes a whole lotta sense!
Thanks again.
I am not sure who JonC's sources are, but they are clearly legit based on history. However, my personal opinion is the Giants board ranking will not matter here. Almost every board out there, professional or amateur have Barkley, Chubb, Nelson as the top 3 players based on grade. When a team is drafting a QB high, those rankings mean less simply due to the shear value of having a good QB. For example, Matt Ryan is a very good QB. He isn't the top guy in the league. Barry Sanders is one of the best backs in NFL history. I guarantee that Barry would have the higher "grade". Matt Ryan is clearly more valuable.
If you look around the sites, Eli is considered a bottom half QB. I have seen him ranked anywhere from 17-25 going into next season. Maybe these rankings are off, but you have to considered our fan bias too. He is 37 years old. How many teams would pass on a QB at the 2 pick when they have a bottom half of the league QB at age 37. It is a HUGE gamble that he will bounce back at this point. Gettleman would be staking his reputation on day 1 that Eli will return to his 2011-2012 form. I am not saying he definitely can't do that...but it just seems like a big risk.
Anyway...these are just my opinions. Hopefully will stimulate discussion.
I am not sure who JonC's sources are, but they are clearly legit based on history. However, my personal opinion is the Giants board ranking will not matter here. Almost every board out there, professional or amateur have Barkley, Chubb, Nelson as the top 3 players based on grade. When a team is drafting a QB high, those rankings mean less simply due to the shear value of having a good QB. For example, Matt Ryan is a very good QB. He isn't the top guy in the league. Barry Sanders is one of the best backs in NFL history. I guarantee that Barry would have the higher "grade". Matt Ryan is clearly more valuable.
If you look around the sites, Eli is considered a bottom half QB. I have seen him ranked anywhere from 17-25 going into next season. Maybe these rankings are off, but you have to considered our fan bias too. He is 37 years old. How many teams would pass on a QB at the 2 pick when they have a bottom half of the league QB at age 37. It is a HUGE gamble that he will bounce back at this point. Gettleman would be staking his reputation on day 1 that Eli will return to his 2011-2012 form. I am not saying he definitely can't do that...but it just seems like a big risk.
Anyway...these are just my opinions. Hopefully will stimulate discussion.
Many good points Jarvis. I would say a decision that high up you can bet ownership will have a big say in it. If you go QB at #2 you are basically saying to Eli this is your last year. A QB you are high on late round 1 (via trade up) or early rounds 2 or even 3 changes the dynamic drastically.
Right or wrong if Giants goals are:
1.Do 'right' (in their eyes) by Eli (after last years debacle) and give him to the end of his contract (which the Giants are big on) . That means 2 years IF he plays well this year under a much better HC/OC combination and improved OL.
2.Do right by Davis Webb who has been the consummate back up the day he stepped into the Giants facility and has busted his butt. A model Qb understudy and exactly the persona the Giants love for their Qb.
3. Take a Qb later in draft so investment is not as high and he can provide competition and insurance for Davis Webb in case he doesnt pan out.
This is well within their M.O. to do this. I am not saying I agree with this per se, but I could totally see Giants ownership doing this type of thing. Eli is like family to them (plus of course he brought 2 Super Bowl rings here). For better or for worse, this is an extremely loyal organization to a fault.
And Denver would be a likely candidate since it seems Elway has a clear QB favorite.
Quote:
Giants will trade down
And Denver would be a likely candidate since it seems Elway has a clear QB favorite.
I doubt this. Id bet NYG runs to the podium for Darnold and doesnt look back.
I think they stay and pick Darnold, and the Chubb or Nelson at #4.
I think they stay and pick Darnold, and the Chubb or Nelson at #4.
Agreed. It makes absolutely no sense for the Browns to get their 3rd or 4th choice by going RB at 1 and QB at 4. Smart money is Darnold at 1 and whoever is left of Barkley or Chubb at 4.
Joey, I was thinking about this the other day too. I think they take Barkley # 1. I think if that happens we take Chubb. They get a QB with their other pick then.
I am starting to feel that's how this may play out.
1) Darnold - (Browns Can't take the chance of another guy)
2) Barkley - (Has Giants written all over him)
3) Allen, Rosen or Mayfield - (whoever the Jets have rated higher
4) Chubb (Browns will be thrilled to team Chubb and Garrett and take a RB in the 2nd round)
5) Allen, Rosen or Mayfield
I have no inside info, I just feel this is what is going to happen.
If Giants want only Darnold:
Dorsey: Dave, Johnnie here
Gettle: Johnnie boy
Dorsey: Would you trade your #2 pick for Darnold and a 2nd
Gettle: Make it a 2019 3rd and 5th for Dahhneld
Dorsey: Done
If Giants want only Allen:
Dorsey: Dave, Johnnie here
Gettle: Johnnie boy
Dorsey: Would you trade your #2 pick for Darnold and a 2nd
Gettle: No
Dorsey: OK, thx
Gettle: [gets trade back offers from DEN]
If Giants want only Barkley:
Dorsey: Dave, Johnnie here
Gettle: Johnnie boy
Dorsey: Would you trade your #2 pick for Darnold and a 2nd
Gettle: No
Dorsey: OK, thx
Gettle: [gets trade back offers from DEN]
Pete44 : 11:25 am : link : reply
When all is said and done, the most likely scenario is what we all think will happen:
I haven't seen any consensus on what will happen, let alone a scenario "we all think will happen".
Basically, I won't be surprised at anything on draft night, and that includes trading down and seeing Roger Goodell in a Snow White costume.
1) Darnold - (Browns Can't take the chance of another guy)
2) Barkley - (Has Giants written all over him)
3) Allen, Rosen or Mayfield - (whoever the Jets have rated higher
4) Chubb (Browns will be thrilled to team Chubb and Garrett and take a RB in the 2nd round)
5) Allen, Rosen or Mayfield
I have no inside info, I just feel this is what is going to happen.
Pete, I think this is the most likely (and 'boring' LOL) scenario.
Allen and Barkley or
Darnold and Chubb?
If they take Barkley #1 at least there is some plausible deniability by taking Allen as the third QB
Quote:
I think the Browns are most likely going Darnold. Seems to be a huge risk to take Allen at 1. I think this is hype. I know for a fact the NFL love intrigue at the top due to the fact that the draft is prime time TV on thursday night. That is a huge time slot. They could go Allen..I am just speculating.
I am not sure who JonC's sources are, but they are clearly legit based on history. However, my personal opinion is the Giants board ranking will not matter here. Almost every board out there, professional or amateur have Barkley, Chubb, Nelson as the top 3 players based on grade. When a team is drafting a QB high, those rankings mean less simply due to the shear value of having a good QB. For example, Matt Ryan is a very good QB. He isn't the top guy in the league. Barry Sanders is one of the best backs in NFL history. I guarantee that Barry would have the higher "grade". Matt Ryan is clearly more valuable.
If you look around the sites, Eli is considered a bottom half QB. I have seen him ranked anywhere from 17-25 going into next season. Maybe these rankings are off, but you have to considered our fan bias too. He is 37 years old. How many teams would pass on a QB at the 2 pick when they have a bottom half of the league QB at age 37. It is a HUGE gamble that he will bounce back at this point. Gettleman would be staking his reputation on day 1 that Eli will return to his 2011-2012 form. I am not saying he definitely can't do that...but it just seems like a big risk.
Anyway...these are just my opinions. Hopefully will stimulate discussion.
Many good points Jarvis. I would say a decision that high up you can bet ownership will have a big say in it. If you go QB at #2 you are basically saying to Eli this is your last year. A QB you are high on late round 1 (via trade up) or early rounds 2 or even 3 changes the dynamic drastically.
Right or wrong if Giants goals are:
1.Do 'right' (in their eyes) by Eli (after last years debacle) and give him to the end of his contract (which the Giants are big on) . That means 2 years IF he plays well this year under a much better HC/OC combination and improved OL.
2.Do right by Davis Webb who has been the consummate back up the day he stepped into the Giants facility and has busted his butt. A model Qb understudy and exactly the persona the Giants love for their Qb.
3. Take a Qb later in draft so investment is not as high and he can provide competition and insurance for Davis Webb in case he doesnt pan out.
This is well within their M.O. to do this. I am not saying I agree with this per se, but I could totally see Giants ownership doing this type of thing. Eli is like family to them (plus of course he brought 2 Super Bowl rings here). For better or for worse, this is an extremely loyal organization to a fault.
Hasn't Eli said that he would be ok with the Giants drafting a QB? Of course that could just be lip service, but I thought he publicly said that, or at least Gettleman said that he said that?