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Darnold visiting NYG today; Josh Allen tomorrow

shyster : 4/16/2018 9:01 am
per Breer.

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Knock it out of the park  
JonC : 4/16/2018 9:05 am : link
Sam.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/16/2018 9:09 am : link
I wish we had another month before the draft. All of this endless speculation is great fun. (joke)
Here's your locker Sam  
GoBlue6599 : 4/16/2018 9:09 am : link
Welcome to NY
I hope he doesn't fumble this opportunity.  
Diver_Down : 4/16/2018 9:09 am : link
.
Team Allen here  
Chris684 : 4/16/2018 9:11 am : link
Better tools. Character and brains are fine. I leave the rest up to Shurmur.
I hope Allen has someone driving  
Diver_Down : 4/16/2018 9:13 am : link
because with his accuracy issues, he might miss his exit.
allen  
jintz4life : 4/16/2018 9:15 am : link
stinks
Don't overlook the fact  
UberAlias : 4/16/2018 9:17 am : link
that they brought in a HC and OC with reputations for developing QBs, and Eli affords them the time.

Where this leads me is, 1) I'm not buying the Beats line of no QB. They may not go QB, but one has to assume securing franchise QB would be seen as the best possible outcome, don't buy the win now line, and 2) coaches will have major impact on decision for any QB, and there will be an eye for what the QB may become (with coaching), not simply what they showed in college. Allen and Darnold both with very big upside.
RE: ...  
Capt. Don : 4/16/2018 9:17 am : link
In comment 13915534 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I wish we had another month before the draft. All of this endless speculation is great fun. (joke)


Seriously. I actually feel bad for the beat writers. How many different ways can they spin this thing for another 10 days?
Uber  
JonC : 4/16/2018 9:18 am : link
agreed.
I just pose the simple question on the QB's  
Andy in Boston : 4/16/2018 9:18 am : link
Shurmur and Giants have stated the Eli has "years" left.
If he has a good year this year, he's going to be the QB next year, which means if they draft a QB at #2 this year; he's likely to sit for 2 years...not 1...but 2.

Is it or is it NOT a waste spend the #2 pick on a QB that could sit for 2 years? When the team has so many holes.
Eric I actually enjoyed most  
joeinpa : 4/16/2018 9:19 am : link
Of the banter. What got tiresome was posters wanting a certain scenerio and presenting supporting arguments based on opinions as if they were fact.





I'm all in  
Harvest Blend : 4/16/2018 9:20 am : link
on Darnold.
RE: RE: ...  
UberAlias : 4/16/2018 9:20 am : link
In comment 13915557 Capt. Don said:
Quote:
In comment 13915534 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I wish we had another month before the draft. All of this endless speculation is great fun. (joke)



Seriously. I actually feel bad for the beat writers. How many different ways can they spin this thing for another 10 days?
I don't. More than one of the beats (cough, cough, Schwartz, cough, cough Paul Dot.) are taking this almost personally. Like anyone disagreeing with them is a personal attach on their credibility.
I'd still prefer  
section125 : 4/16/2018 9:24 am : link
Rosen as he is, right now, the best QB. I get an uneasy feeling about developing Darnold(or Allen) and being certain he will improve. Darnold and Allen are basically in the same boat - both great potential, but with a reasonable chance to fail. And I am not sure that Darnold or Allen, even if fully developed, will be that much better than Rosen is right now (even before Rosen improves with NFL instruction)....just the doggone concussions that give me pause.
We have Pat Shurmur.  
Brown Recluse : 4/16/2018 9:25 am : link
He will turn either Rosen, Darnold, or Allen into a star. Not even worried.
Eric  
Pete44 : 4/16/2018 9:25 am : link
I'm with you, basically tired of people trying to see something that is not there. Unless, the Browns pick Barkley #1, the Giants most likely are going to take him, from all rumors. There are no smokescreens or misdirections here. If Barkley is gone, they might take Chubb over Darnold. It does not seem that they are going QB, even though it is mistake.
RE: Eric I actually enjoyed most  
Canton : 4/16/2018 9:28 am : link
In comment 13915563 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Of the banter. What got tiresome was posters wanting a certain scenerio and presenting supporting arguments based on opinions as if they were fact.






McL
RE: I just pose the simple question on the QB's  
Strip-Sack : 4/16/2018 9:39 am : link
In comment 13915560 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
Shurmur and Giants have stated the Eli has "years" left.
If he has a good year this year, he's going to be the QB next year, which means if they draft a QB at #2 this year; he's likely to sit for 2 years...not 1...but 2.

Is it or is it NOT a waste spend the #2 pick on a QB that could sit for 2 years? When the team has so many holes.


This is the point that gets most overlooked IMO, it just doesn’t make any sense to sit the #2 pick in the draft for 2 seasons.....so, either they’ve been blowing smoke about Eli’s “years” left or they won’t go QB with that pick....it’s an either or proposition IMO.
..  
Eli Wilson : 4/16/2018 9:40 am : link
So today we'll hear how much we love Darnold and tomorrow it will be how much we love Allen. We already had someone saying the Giants think Barkley is a perfect prospect.

We'll drive the Browns nuts not knowing what we are going to do at #2.

If the Browns were smart, they would "accidentally" leak who they are likely to pick at #1 to see if what our reaction would be.
Come on Sammy  
figgy2989 : 4/16/2018 9:40 am : link
Have a great interview!
The HC is not here for 1 guy but the whole team  
twostepgiants : 4/16/2018 9:41 am : link
I agree that Shurmurs hiring is a sign that the organization is moving on and looking QB. As is hiring a QB guy at OC. I think this was to help them identify the right guy to move forward with.

BUT

The Giants cannot turn the Head Coaching job into developing the QB like he is some kind of tutor.

Shurmur needs to be the Head Coach.

he can best implement a game plan and vision that best utilizes the particular skill set and talent of a QB and work seamlessly with him.

But he cannot teach the guy how to play the position.

That was his job when he was a QB coach. Now he is the HC.

Shurmur cant spend his time teaching Josh Allen how to hit a WR in stride or Sam Darnold how to properly plant his feet to throw correctly.

Pat Shurmur is not a QB tutor.
I've wanted Darnold from the get go  
Torrag : 4/16/2018 9:48 am : link
Best combination of tools, character and production. Really he's the only 'clean' QB prospect that checks all the boxes.
RE: I just pose the simple question on the QB's  
Milton : 4/16/2018 9:49 am : link
In comment 13915560 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
Shurmur and Giants have stated the Eli has "years" left.
If he has a good year this year, he's going to be the QB next year, which means if they draft a QB at #2 this year; he's likely to sit for 2 years...not 1...but 2.

Is it or is it NOT a waste spend the #2 pick on a QB that could sit for 2 years? When the team has so many holes.
It is not.
RE: ...  
BLUATHRT : 4/16/2018 9:50 am : link
In comment 13915534 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I wish we had another month before the draft. All of this endless speculation is great fun. (joke)


The draft cant come soon enough.
I want to hold off on  
jvm52106 : 4/16/2018 9:59 am : link
the Shurmur is here so he will develop this QB or that QB into a star. A lot of people were touting McAdoo too with all the "great" stats we had in TC's last year here. Prove it first. I am not ready to annoint anyone without actual proof.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Capt. Don : 4/16/2018 10:00 am : link
In comment 13915565 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 13915557 Capt. Don said:


Quote:


In comment 13915534 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I wish we had another month before the draft. All of this endless speculation is great fun. (joke)



Seriously. I actually feel bad for the beat writers. How many different ways can they spin this thing for another 10 days?

I don't. More than one of the beats (cough, cough, Schwartz, cough, cough Paul Dot.) are taking this almost personally. Like anyone disagreeing with them is a personal attach on their credibility.


Oh dont get me wrong - there are a handful that I do not particularly like. I just would not like the job at this point in time. RE-hashing the same stuff for another 10 days is probably about as fun as reading the same stuff for the next 10 days.
RE: I've wanted Darnold from the get go  
Milton : 4/16/2018 10:03 am : link
In comment 13915631 Torrag said:
Quote:
Best combination of tools, character and production. Really he's the only 'clean' QB prospect that checks all the boxes.
I think his work ethic deserves scrutiny. Why did he perform so poorly in the athletic testing at the combine? And if it's true that teams were disappointed with how he did on the whiteboard, what does that say? If I'm Pat Shurmer, I don't want a QB who improvises, I want one who remembers his lines and delivers them on cue.
RE: I want to hold off on  
UberAlias : 4/16/2018 10:06 am : link
In comment 13915660 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
the Shurmur is here so he will develop this QB or that QB into a star. A lot of people were touting McAdoo too with all the "great" stats we had in TC's last year here. Prove it first. I am not ready to annoint anyone without actual proof.
No one is anointing anyone. Nothing is a sure thing. But we are talking about what their mindset might be. In fact, this was stated specifically with respect to Shula as something they desired (experience in developing QBs).
RE: I just pose the simple question on the QB's  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/16/2018 10:09 am : link
In comment 13915560 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
Shurmur and Giants have stated the Eli has "years" left.
If he has a good year this year, he's going to be the QB next year, which means if they draft a QB at #2 this year; he's likely to sit for 2 years...not 1...but 2.

Is it or is it NOT a waste spend the #2 pick on a QB that could sit for 2 years? When the team has so many holes.

All of that relies on you believing what they said, when they have absolutely no reason or motivation to be honest and forthright. And then is compounded by a fairly large "if."

The QB position is too important to dismiss the opportunity for a smooth transition in favor of a run-to-failure alternative.
Hope Allen Kills It  
GoDeep13 : 4/16/2018 10:09 am : link
He’s become my preferred prospect at this point. Get the QB of the future with the most upside and the most to gain from this situation with Eli, Shurmur, and Shula.
RE: RE: I've wanted Darnold from the get go  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/16/2018 10:11 am : link
In comment 13915667 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13915631 Torrag said:


Quote:


Best combination of tools, character and production. Really he's the only 'clean' QB prospect that checks all the boxes.

I think his work ethic deserves scrutiny. Why did he perform so poorly in the athletic testing at the combine? And if it's true that teams were disappointed with how he did on the whiteboard, what does that say? If I'm Pat Shurmer, I don't want a QB who improvises, I want one who remembers his lines and delivers them on cue.

So poorly? Weren't his athletic metrics roughly equivalent to a certain world-class tennis prodigy?
Does it really matter if Darnold does great?  
yankeeslover : 4/16/2018 10:20 am : link
Do you really think Cleveland is stupid enough to pass on him at #1?
RE: RE: I've wanted Darnold from the get go  
Fast Eddie : 4/16/2018 10:28 am : link
In comment 13915667 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13915631 Torrag said:


Quote:


Best combination of tools, character and production. Really he's the only 'clean' QB prospect that checks all the boxes.

I think his work ethic deserves scrutiny. Why did he perform so poorly in the athletic testing at the combine? And if it's true that teams were disappointed with how he did on the whiteboard, what does that say? If I'm Pat Shurmer, I don't want a QB who improvises, I want one who remembers his lines and delivers them on cue.


I definitely recall Shurmur saying during combine interview that there was only 1 qb that excelled on their whiteboard. Its anyone’s guess who he was referring to but methinks it was Miltons nephew 😜
RE: RE: RE: I've wanted Darnold from the get go  
section125 : 4/16/2018 10:32 am : link
In comment 13915718 Fast Eddie said:
Quote:
In comment 13915667 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 13915631 Torrag said:


Quote:


Best combination of tools, character and production. Really he's the only 'clean' QB prospect that checks all the boxes.

I think his work ethic deserves scrutiny. Why did he perform so poorly in the athletic testing at the combine? And if it's true that teams were disappointed with how he did on the whiteboard, what does that say? If I'm Pat Shurmer, I don't want a QB who improvises, I want one who remembers his lines and delivers them on cue.



I definitely recall Shurmur saying during combine interview that there was only 1 qb that excelled on their whiteboard. Its anyone’s guess who he was referring to but methinks it was Milton's nephew 😜


I thought that was verified...
At least  
Dirt1 : 4/16/2018 10:33 am : link
they can see Darnold throw in the wind and rain again. Make sure his Pro day was no fluke!!
If Darnold is there  
ryanmkeane : 4/16/2018 10:33 am : link
and they pass...that would be somewhat shocking, and upsetting.
Didn't they  
old man : 4/16/2018 10:38 am : link
Bring in SD about 10 days ago? Or was it postponed?
Either way, it's not a decoy exercise.
As I said a few days ago, they are still rather undecided about their board and picking the top end, valuing which ones get the 2 spot, playing if-thens to finalizing it, and then fight the next 10 days about who they insist earns the top spot on their boats.
If JM does what he did w/ JR, DG makes the final decision.
Really wish the QB and OL/LT classes were what was expected at the end of '16.
RE: At least  
shyster : 4/16/2018 10:43 am : link
In comment 13915725 Dirt1 said:
Quote:
they can see Darnold throw in the wind and rain again. Make sure his Pro day was no fluke!!


There are no workouts for out-of-area players visiting team headquarters. Physical workouts anyway. They can be tested on knowledge.
RE: Does it really matter if Darnold does great?  
GFAN52 : 4/16/2018 10:48 am : link
In comment 13915710 yankeeslover said:
Quote:
Do you really think Cleveland is stupid enough to pass on him at #1?


Dorsey isn't, they will select him 1st overall.
RE: RE: Does it really matter if Darnold does great?  
Jay on the Island : 4/16/2018 11:14 am : link
In comment 13915768 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 13915710 yankeeslover said:


Quote:


Do you really think Cleveland is stupid enough to pass on him at #1?



Dorsey isn't, they will select him 1st overall.

Dorsey is a great GM. In fact he was the guy I wanted the Giants to hire but the Browns acted quickly. IIRC prior to getting hired Dorsey did admit to loving Allen the most out of all the QB's. To further confuse things the Browns hired McGloughan as a consultant. Before being hired McGloughan said that if he were the GM he would take Mayfield 1st overall.
Hope they didn't plan a kayaking trip.  
bceagle05 : 4/16/2018 11:39 am : link
What a mess out there.
RE: RE: RE: Does it really matter if Darnold does great?  
shyster : 4/16/2018 11:45 am : link
In comment 13915810 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
IIRC prior to getting hired Dorsey did admit to loving Allen the most out of all the QB's.


I'm confident Dorsey never made such a comment about Allen. In mid-January, the stories started regarding the possibility of the Browns considering Allen (and Kiper put him #1 in his first mock).

If Dorsey had specifically endorsed Allen, it would definitely have been mentioned at the time.





RE: I just pose the simple question on the QB's  
ThatLimerickGuy : 4/16/2018 11:50 am : link
In comment 13915560 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
Shurmur and Giants have stated the Eli has "years" left.
If he has a good year this year, he's going to be the QB next year, which means if they draft a QB at #2 this year; he's likely to sit for 2 years...not 1...but 2.

Is it or is it NOT a waste spend the #2 pick on a QB that could sit for 2 years? When the team has so many holes.


That's not true.

As has been explained here ad nauseum the dead money cap hit in releasing Eli after next year is much more palateable than if they would have done it after this last season. That's probably one of the biggest if not the biggest reason that Eli will be taking snaps week 1.
RE: RE: RE: I've wanted Darnold from the get go  
Milton : 4/16/2018 11:52 am : link
In comment 13915689 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13915667 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 13915631 Torrag said:


Quote:


Best combination of tools, character and production. Really he's the only 'clean' QB prospect that checks all the boxes.

I think his work ethic deserves scrutiny. Why did he perform so poorly in the athletic testing at the combine? And if it's true that teams were disappointed with how he did on the whiteboard, what does that say? If I'm Pat Shurmer, I don't want a QB who improvises, I want one who remembers his lines and delivers them on cue.


So poorly? Weren't his athletic metrics roughly equivalent to a certain world-class tennis prodigy?
I should clarify, I mean poorly in terms of expectations. Of the two, Darnold was supposed to be head and shoulders above Rosen athletically speaking. He was expected to be bigger, stronger, faster--a veritable Steve Austin compared to Rosen. Rosen turned out to be bigger (taller, heavier, and with larger hands); their 40-times were roughly equivalent (if you go by the hand-timed number which oddly enough is considered more accurate than the official time); and Rosen bested Darnold in the three events which Gettleman cited as most telling: the vertical jump, broad jump, and short shuttle.

So the question is: is Rosen actually the better athlete or did he just do a better job of preparing for the events at the combine? I suspect it's the latter. Which I thinks speaks to both of their work ethics.
RE: allen  
BigBlue4You09 : 4/16/2018 11:52 am : link
In comment 13915552 jintz4life said:
Quote:
stinks


This is stellar feedback and great analysis. How long did it take you?
They are going to have to charter a boat  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 4/16/2018 11:57 am : link
to get Darnold into East Rutherford.
RE: I want to hold off on  
Brown Recluse : 4/16/2018 12:03 pm : link
In comment 13915660 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
the Shurmur is here so he will develop this QB or that QB into a star. A lot of people were touting McAdoo too with all the "great" stats we had in TC's last year here. Prove it first. I am not ready to annoint anyone without actual proof.


Shurmur has done it. McAdoo hadn't.
I suspect that they're not even interested in some of the players  
Ira : 4/16/2018 12:05 pm : link
they bring in for visits, but they have to do it to keep other teams guessing.
RE: The HC is not here for 1 guy but the whole team  
Brown Recluse : 4/16/2018 12:05 pm : link
In comment 13915618 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
I agree that Shurmurs hiring is a sign that the organization is moving on and looking QB. As is hiring a QB guy at OC. I think this was to help them identify the right guy to move forward with.

BUT

The Giants cannot turn the Head Coaching job into developing the QB like he is some kind of tutor.

Shurmur needs to be the Head Coach.

he can best implement a game plan and vision that best utilizes the particular skill set and talent of a QB and work seamlessly with him.

But he cannot teach the guy how to play the position.

That was his job when he was a QB coach. Now he is the HC.

Shurmur cant spend his time teaching Josh Allen how to hit a WR in stride or Sam Darnold how to properly plant his feet to throw correctly.

Pat Shurmur is not a QB tutor.


Shurmur will be involved in QB development. And he also has a coach here that he trusts in overseeing that development as well.
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