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Josh Rosen

Big Rick in FL : 4/16/2018 9:18 am
Does anybody find it weird that the media has very little to say about Rosen to the Giants? Ben Allbright is really one of the only media members to mention that possibility. Sy said if the Giants go QB it'll be Rosen. Colin mentioned something about him last week. Other then that he's barely mentioned. Everything else is Barkley, Chubb, trade down or that Darnold is the only QB the Giants want.

I just think it's very strange that they have no interest in the player they've met with most. The guy our one of our Owners flew all the way across the country to have dinner with.

Yet we didn't hear anything about Mara traveling anywhere else for dinner. Yes he may have had dinner with other prospects when they visited the team, but I'm sure Rosen did as well.

The media has just been completely wrong about basically everything we've done since we hired Gettleman that it's hard for me to believe they have any idea what we want to do in the draft. Albert Breer said we don't like Rosen. Yet we met with him at the combine. Met with him before his Pro Day & then went to his Pro Day, held a private workout in Cali & both of our Owners had dinner with him before that. Then we brought him in for a 2 day visit to NY. Seems like a lot of resources & time being spent on someone they don't like.
Based on reports and expert opinions (including Sy’s)  
Big Blue '56 : 4/16/2018 9:21 am : link
I hope the Giants take Rosen if they go QB at 2 whether SD is available or not
RE: Based on reports and expert opinions (including Sy’s)  
Big Rick in FL : 4/16/2018 9:24 am : link
In comment 13915567 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
I hope the Giants take Rosen if they go QB at 2 whether SD is available or not


I'm cool with Darnold or Rosen, but the lack of mentions he's getting is extremely weird to me when we've spent so much time with him. I'm starting to think he might be the QB they like, but they don't want it out there, because they don't want the Jets to jump them.
There is a process they follow  
UberAlias : 4/16/2018 9:26 am : link
DG spoke about this. Until the process is completed, there is no decision. The Giants are doing their research, following the process on all the usual suspects. Don't read too much into what they do with any one guy. That's just the process at work, not a signal.
RE: RE: Based on reports and expert opinions (including Sy’s)  
section125 : 4/16/2018 9:26 am : link
In comment 13915572 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 13915567 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


I hope the Giants take Rosen if they go QB at 2 whether SD is available or not



I'm cool with Darnold or Rosen, but the lack of mentions he's getting is extremely weird to me when we've spent so much time with him. I'm starting to think he might be the QB they like, but they don't want it out there, because they don't want the Jets to jump them.


Nothing the Jets do will dislodge Cleveland from the 1st pick. Nothing.
Peter king today  
jtgiants : 4/16/2018 9:26 am : link
Said in mmqb he believes it will be Barkley or Chubb and Rosen may fall past 6. I got killed for saying that last week but I also believe it to b true
Rosen is the best QB in this draft  
GoBlue6599 : 4/16/2018 9:26 am : link
I think he or Darnold will be Giants
Nobody knows  
TMS : 4/16/2018 9:26 am : link
what the giants are planning to do, which is a good thing. His skill set is comparable to all the other QBs out there so I am sure he is under consideration.
I think we see a wave of options  
George from PA : 4/16/2018 9:29 am : link
between the QBs...Darnold, Allen and Rosen and Barkley and Chubb....or trade down.

I just want to say Thank You to DG.....as no one has been able to focus on our true target.
RE: Peter king today  
Reb8thVA : 4/16/2018 9:37 am : link
In comment 13915581 jtgiants said:
Quote:
Said in mmqb he believes it will be Barkley or Chubb and Rosen may fall past 6. I got killed for saying that last week but I also believe it to b true


I agree completely. I don't think they touch Rosen. If its a QB it will be Darnold.
Rosen's  
AcidTest : 4/16/2018 9:39 am : link
injury history, his not being a threat to run, and his "comments" are why I don't think the Giants will pick him. But I certainly wouldn't be stunned if they do.
I've read or heard many scouts say  
aimrocky : 4/16/2018 9:57 am : link
Rosen's tape blow every other QB out of the water. I'm thinking, and hoping, the silence around Rosen means that teams behind us hope he drops and the Giants are hoping nobody jumps them for him.
RE: Nobody knows  
twostepgiants : 4/16/2018 9:58 am : link
In comment 13915583 TMS said:
Quote:
what the giants are planning to do, which is a good thing. His skill set is comparable to all the other QBs out there so I am sure he is under consideration.


Lets hope so

But. Eveyone has the Giants at "no QB" right now and basically Barkley or Chubb.

If thats true, everyone knows.

Lets hope its not.
There's a good chance Rosen is there at #5  
JonC : 4/16/2018 10:01 am : link
which I suspect is why the Broncos have been still.
RE: There's a good chance Rosen is there at #5  
ryanmkeane : 4/16/2018 10:03 am : link
In comment 13915664 JonC said:
Quote:
which I suspect is why the Broncos have been still.

Meaning Jets prefer Mayfield to Rosen?
I think so  
JonC : 4/16/2018 10:07 am : link
.
Mayfield to NYJ  
Sy'56 : 4/16/2018 10:10 am : link
is my guess as well
Rosen  
Hilary : 4/16/2018 10:16 am : link
1.Every scouting report that I read seems to say that he is an accurate passer
2.Having a QB who can hit Beckham in stride= ability to score from any point on the field.
3.He may have injury issues but is still more likely to last until age 30 than Barkley
4.Personality issues certainly over played. He will be smart enough to keep his mouth shut and collect his salary and endorsements.

He will play in New York (NJ really). I hope with the Giants not the Jets
I think Rosen falls a bit and is the fourth....  
MOOPS : 4/16/2018 10:48 am : link
of the big four to get drafted.
The reason is his static address. It makes him easy to find for the Edge Rushers. I think teams are seeing that at this point in time a somewhat mobile QB, and I'm not talking about a run first or single read guy, is adventageous. His lack of mobility is what will hurt Rosen's draft position, IMO.
Rosen is Eli 2.0  
jeff57 : 4/16/2018 11:15 am : link
I hope they take him.
Link - ( New Window )
If The Giants Stay Put At 2nd Overall  
Trainmaster : 4/16/2018 11:28 am : link
Rosen is my “throw the remote” pick since all but one of Barkley, Darnold, Nelson, Allen or Chubb will still be available.

I want absolutely no part of Rosen in any size, shape or form.

What about if Rosen  
NikkiMac : 4/16/2018 11:53 am : link
Goes to Cleveland, nobody has him going there , it’s all Dorsey doesn’t like him that would be interesting
RE: If The Giants Stay Put At 2nd Overall  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 4/16/2018 12:26 pm : link
In comment 13915833 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
Rosen is my “throw the remote” pick since all but one of Barkley, Darnold, Nelson, Allen or Chubb will still be available.

I want absolutely no part of Rosen in any size, shape or form.


He has a 99 Douchiness rating in Madden. Pass.
Rosen will get hammered in the NFL  
TMS : 4/16/2018 12:32 pm : link
Then he will be injured, more often than not, and we will be looking for another QB before his second contract. IMO
Rosen=  
Carl in CT : 4/16/2018 12:36 pm : link
Jeff George.
Reading the tea leaves  
Colin@gbn : 4/16/2018 12:41 pm : link
Big Rick: Really interesting question. Certainly, its been a puzzler for me why the Giants, who have devoted more time and resources checking out the QBs than any other team in the league, are now leaking out "QB, we don't want no stinking QB!"

Hear's what we are hearing bubbling just beneath the surface. Always with the proviso that at this time of the year you just can't trust 100% what you hear however we are sort of confident in that we are hearing similar things from several different directions.

First it appears as if Rosen may have taken off a little of late. He has the best pure arm talent since Luck; he has blown away people in interviews with his football acumen; and for the most part the questions about his passion for the game and commitment have been put to rest. He's still not quite in the same class as Luck as he lacks the toughness and mobility, but he's probably as close as anyone has been since.

That puts the Browns in a bit of a pickle because Rosen has for all intents and purposes told them he doesn't want to play in Cleveland and they don't want an Elway-Eli situation. So in a perfect world they'd like to trade out of #1 to someone that wants Rosen but still leave themselves in position to grab Darnold and there just aren't many places you can do that. Meanwhile, the Giants are kind of in the catbird seat when it comes to Rosen - if that is indeed where they want to go and the fact that Mara went all the way to west coast to have dinner with the kid is about as telling a tell as you are going to get in the draft business short of a team announcing outright before the draft who they are taking - but are worried about the off-chance that the Browns deal with someone else like the Jets. Not likely to happen but they may have to hold their breath for a bit on the 26th.

PS I am with Eric on this. We are really aren't going to find out anything substantially new between now and the 26th such that we are going to be treated to a 10-days speculation (which is what I guess we are doing here but at least we have some evidence to back it up.)
RE: Rosen=  
jeff57 : 4/16/2018 12:46 pm : link
In comment 13915954 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Jeff George.


Nope. Eli 2.0.
RE: Reading the tea leaves  
Milton : 4/16/2018 12:56 pm : link
In comment 13915961 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
the fact that Mara went all the way to west coast to have dinner with the kid is about as telling a tell as you are going to get in the draft business short of a team announcing outright before the draft who they are taking - but are worried about the off-chance that the Browns deal with someone else like the Jets.
Was it ever confirmed that John Mara attended the dinner? I know there was some conflicting reports at the time on whether it was John or Chris Mara who was there.
RE: Rosen=  
arcarsenal : 4/16/2018 1:01 pm : link
In comment 13915954 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Jeff George.


Nope.

If there's a Jeff George in this draft, it's Josh Allen. Not Josh Rosen.
RE: RE: Reading the tea leaves  
Jarvis : 4/16/2018 1:01 pm : link
In comment 13915982 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13915961 Colin@gbn said:


Quote:


the fact that Mara went all the way to west coast to have dinner with the kid is about as telling a tell as you are going to get in the draft business short of a team announcing outright before the draft who they are taking - but are worried about the off-chance that the Browns deal with someone else like the Jets.

Was it ever confirmed that John Mara attended the dinner? I know there was some conflicting reports at the time on whether it was John or Chris Mara who was there.


Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
John Mara said not to read anything into the dinner he and Steve Tisch had with UCLA QB Josh Rosen. He said he'll be having dinner with a lot of the top guys in the draft.


Twitter link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: Reading the tea leaves  
Milton : 4/16/2018 1:04 pm : link
In comment 13915985 Jarvis said:
Quote:

Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
John Mara said not to read anything into the dinner he and Steve Tisch had with UCLA QB Josh Rosen. He said he'll be having dinner with a lot of the top guys in the draft.
Twitter link - ( New Window )
Thanks!
RE: RE: RE: Reading the tea leaves  
Jim in Tampa : 4/16/2018 1:08 pm : link
In comment 13915985 Jarvis said:
Quote:
In comment 13915982 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 13915961 Colin@gbn said:


Quote:


the fact that Mara went all the way to west coast to have dinner with the kid is about as telling a tell as you are going to get in the draft business short of a team announcing outright before the draft who they are taking - but are worried about the off-chance that the Browns deal with someone else like the Jets.

Was it ever confirmed that John Mara attended the dinner? I know there was some conflicting reports at the time on whether it was John or Chris Mara who was there.



Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
John Mara said not to read anything into the dinner he and Steve Tisch had with UCLA QB Josh Rosen. He said he'll be having dinner with a lot of the top guys in the draft.
Twitter link - ( New Window )


And if the Giants are not seriously considering taking Rosen, then why would Mara go out of his way to insist that the dinner was no big deal?

If they weren't interested in Rosen, wouldn't it be smarter to play up the dinner or simply not address it?
Colin  
jtgiants : 4/16/2018 1:11 pm : link
You and I couldn't disagree more on this. Based on opinion and things heard. Here's my honest question. Will you be stunned if they go Barkley/ Chubb. I admit I'd be floored if we went qb at all. P do think it's possible they take darnold. Just curious. Thx
Colin  
jtgiants : 4/16/2018 1:15 pm : link
For the record. I think Rosen falls in the draft a notion peter king detailed today as well. We'll see. Fascinating to me how all over the map this info is
RE: RE: RE: RE: Reading the tea leaves  
Milton : 4/16/2018 1:15 pm : link
In comment 13915991 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
if the Giants are not seriously considering taking Rosen, then why would Mara go out of his way to insist that the dinner was no big deal?

If they weren't interested in Rosen, wouldn't it be smarter to play up the dinner or simply not address it?
That was my first reaction as well, but we weren't there to place it in context. It was likely simply a response to a question, not necessarily Mara "going out of his way" to downplay it.
Whoever offers to pick up the check  
jeff57 : 4/16/2018 1:31 pm : link
Will be the one the Giants take.
100% fair QB competition  
Thegratefulhead : 4/16/2018 1:33 pm : link
A rookie will not get this BUT, If we draft Rosen AND he were to get an equal amount of snaps and play time BECAUSE it will be a 100% new system for both QBs, I think Rosen could beat out Eli and start. Now, I don't think it is possible because no QB will get a fair shot to beat Eli because of his history with the team and I find this to be justifiable.
Thanks Colin  
twostepgiants : 4/16/2018 1:41 pm : link
I think you are dead on. Ive had this exact train of thought on Rosen from day 1.

I believe Rosen is the best QB prospect since Luck, he wants the Giants and the Giants are sitting around hoping no else realizes it and are thankful they are once again holding the "Eli card" (top guy lets it be known he doesnt want to play for 1 pick team)

Giants are in tough spot with 2 Clev picks and Jets at 3. Thats why all the cloak & dagger

Your posts give me hope in light of the media onslaught.

Thank you!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Reading the tea leaves  
twostepgiants : 4/16/2018 1:46 pm : link
In comment 13916000 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13915991 Jim in Tampa said:


Quote:


if the Giants are not seriously considering taking Rosen, then why would Mara go out of his way to insist that the dinner was no big deal?

If they weren't interested in Rosen, wouldn't it be smarter to play up the dinner or simply not address it?

That was my first reaction as well, but we weren't there to place it in context. It was likely simply a response to a question, not necessarily Mara "going out of his way" to downplay it.


The Giants have made mo attempt to counter the Rosen narrative. The dominant story one day was "Giants domt like Rosen". It is media gospel right now that they are not taking Rosen

That alone is suspicious.

If it was try, why not counter it? To mask your true intentions?
This could go down as one of the biggest smokescreens ever.  
Keith : 4/16/2018 1:53 pm : link
Rosen just seems like a Giants guy. I always thought he'd be the one if he checked out in interviews(we have no idea if he did or didn't).

Could the GIants be playing mind games or am I just reading way too much into it? THey express their love for Barkley to get Cle to take him at 1 instead of 4. Or to raise the cost in a trade.

I can def see Rosen as our guy.
RE: RE: Rosen=  
Greg from LI : 4/16/2018 1:57 pm : link
In comment 13915984 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
If there's a Jeff George in this draft, it's Josh Allen. Not Josh Rosen.


I can see a comparison to Jay Cutler, though.
RE: RE: RE: Reading the tea leaves  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 4/16/2018 2:00 pm : link
In comment 13915985 Jarvis said:
Quote:
In comment 13915982 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 13915961 Colin@gbn said:


Quote:


the fact that Mara went all the way to west coast to have dinner with the kid is about as telling a tell as you are going to get in the draft business short of a team announcing outright before the draft who they are taking - but are worried about the off-chance that the Browns deal with someone else like the Jets.

Was it ever confirmed that John Mara attended the dinner? I know there was some conflicting reports at the time on whether it was John or Chris Mara who was there.



Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
John Mara said not to read anything into the dinner he and Steve Tisch had with UCLA QB Josh Rosen. He said he'll be having dinner with a lot of the top guys in the draft.
Twitter link - ( New Window )


LOL What else would he say? By all means, read into the fact I went to dinner with him?
If the health clears  
KWALL2 : 4/16/2018 2:06 pm : link
And he’s available, Rosen is the pick for NYG.
Kwall  
jtgiants : 4/16/2018 2:10 pm : link
I think your wrong. I'd be stunned but well see
Quess who came to dinner  
Colin@gbn : 4/16/2018 2:17 pm : link
Regarding Mara and the dinner; there was some back and forth whether it was John or Chris there, but it has now been confirmed that they were both there. It is also somewhat interesting to note about the dinner that the Giants entourage actually had dinner with both Rosen and Darnold on back-to-back nights but neither Mara nor Tisch went to the Darnold dinner. Mara may also go to dinner with some of the other top prospects who come to NY but Rosen's was the only one he travelled 6,000 miles round-trip to attend. As I said in another thread that dinner has all the look and feel of something that a business would do. DG tells Mara that they have settled on a player they hope will be the face of the franchise for the next 10-15 years and that he and Tisch should sit down with the kid and make sure they are comfortable with him in that role.

And yes JT there is so much out there right now it is hard to tell fact from smokescreen. However, I would be absolutely shocked if the Giants take Barkley at #2. (I would just sort of be shocked if they took Chubb who at least can rush the other guys passer!)The absolute value of that pick is the QBs and you either take one or hold up another team in a trade. Even Buffalo at 12 and 22. Would you trade Barkley for Marcus Davenport, Mike McGlinchey and Isaaih Oliver (in 2) plus an extra #1 in 2109.

here's why you don't trade and take the QB. You are very likely going to be in a situation within the next couple of years here you have to give all those extra picks back plus maybe more to move back up to get your QB. Time will tell though.

There has been a huge lobby here  
TMS : 4/16/2018 2:22 pm : link
for the giants to take Rosen since the beginning. It is still alive and well just changes its approach. We will see on draft day if it worked. No problem with his skills etc just worry about his game to game availability because of injury.
I'm with you 100% Colin  
Big Rick in FL : 4/16/2018 2:24 pm : link
It just seems like they are going to far out of their way to tell the media they don't like Rosen.

I don't know many owners who go and meet with draft prospects. I know Howie Rosman went to meet Wentz prior to his Pro Day and the Browns owner went to meet Allen & Darnold. Which we know they are drafting 1 of them. To me it's a huge deal and the media never really picked up on it.
RE: Quess who came to dinner  
Thegratefulhead : 4/16/2018 2:24 pm : link
In comment 13916118 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
Regarding Mara and the dinner; there was some back and forth whether it was John or Chris there, but it has now been confirmed that they were both there. It is also somewhat interesting to note about the dinner that the Giants entourage actually had dinner with both Rosen and Darnold on back-to-back nights but neither Mara nor Tisch went to the Darnold dinner. Mara may also go to dinner with some of the other top prospects who come to NY but Rosen's was the only one he travelled 6,000 miles round-trip to attend. As I said in another thread that dinner has all the look and feel of something that a business would do. DG tells Mara that they have settled on a player they hope will be the face of the franchise for the next 10-15 years and that he and Tisch should sit down with the kid and make sure they are comfortable with him in that role.

And yes JT there is so much out there right now it is hard to tell fact from smokescreen. However, I would be absolutely shocked if the Giants take Barkley at #2. (I would just sort of be shocked if they took Chubb who at least can rush the other guys passer!)The absolute value of that pick is the QBs and you either take one or hold up another team in a trade. Even Buffalo at 12 and 22. Would you trade Barkley for Marcus Davenport, Mike McGlinchey and Isaaih Oliver (in 2) plus an extra #1 in 2109.

here's why you don't trade and take the QB. You are very likely going to be in a situation within the next couple of years here you have to give all those extra picks back plus maybe more to move back up to get your QB. Time will tell though.
I love and appreciate the consistent quality of your contributions on this site. I completely agree with you as well. Extremely solid reasoning.
Hitdog  
Big Rick in FL : 4/16/2018 2:25 pm : link
Where is Hitdog when we need him? Might have to send out the bat signal soon.
I better be sayin  
UESBLUE : 4/16/2018 2:26 pm : link
Shalom to my new bubbalah Rosen on Apr 26
RE: RE: RE: Rosen=  
Jay on the Island : 4/16/2018 2:41 pm : link
In comment 13916081 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13915984 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


If there's a Jeff George in this draft, it's Josh Allen. Not Josh Rosen.



I can see a comparison to Jay Cutler, though.

The difference is that Cutler doesn't care enough to be a great franchise QB. The talent is there but the work ethic and desire just aren't.
Agree with you Colin  
jeff57 : 4/16/2018 2:44 pm : link
I don't think the Giants will be taking Barkley or Chubb at 2. If Browns take Allen, Giants will take Darnold. But if the Browns take Darnold, Giants will take Rosen.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Rosen=  
Greg from LI : 4/16/2018 2:45 pm : link
In comment 13916151 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
The difference is that Cutler doesn't care enough to be a great franchise QB. The talent is there but the work ethic and desire just aren't.


A)We know that now, but that wasn't the consensus on Cutler at the time.

B)It remains to be seen how much desire Rosen actually has.
Colin  
jtgiants : 4/16/2018 2:51 pm : link
Fair enough. I'm pretty confident your way off base on this but who knows. I think there's little chance the giants take him. I think its Barkley or Chubb all the way. I could be wrong. You are right about one thing. Time will tell. One of us is way off base and neither of us are alone in our thought process
Colin  
jtgiants : 4/16/2018 2:55 pm : link
One last thing. I said a few weeks ago I felt Rosen would fall out of top 5 and maybe further. I stand by that. Are you confident in wrong on that?
RE: Hitdog  
Strahan91 : 4/16/2018 2:57 pm : link
In comment 13916130 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Where is Hitdog when we need him? Might have to send out the bat signal soon.


Hitdog being mum is the surest sign yet that the Giants haven't set their board or made up their minds yet :). The closest we've got was a month or so ago when a poster suggested liking Chubb was a smokescreen and he said it wasn't. Maybe that means he's their target but it's hardly an endorsement. Who doesn't like Chubb?
Thanks for the insight, Colin. We all know,  
Ira : 4/16/2018 3:54 pm : link
that at this stage, anything's possible. But your analysis is interesting and could prove to be right.
Think with two of the decisions makers (DG and Tisch) bieng Jewish  
TMS : 4/16/2018 4:56 pm : link
and the empty suit Mara . Rosen will be our guy . For how long we will see. Such is life. Surprise me. Hope we win the SB with him but he will not be ELI resilence wise. MO
RE: Think with two of the decisions makers (DG and Tisch) bieng Jewish  
jeff57 : 4/16/2018 5:04 pm : link
In comment 13916363 TMS said:
Quote:
and the empty suit Mara . Rosen will be our guy . For how long we will see. Such is life. Surprise me. Hope we win the SB with him but he will not be ELI resilence wise. MO


Gettleman converted to Christianity.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Rosen=  
Milton : 4/16/2018 5:24 pm : link
In comment 13916162 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
It remains to be seen how much desire Rosen actually has.

From newyorkjets.com....
Quote:
Dan Orlovsky, former NFL quarterback turned QB evaluator, said of Rosen on Peter King's MMBQ podcast, "If you watch him work, watch him play quarterback, in the pocket, there's no way you become as efficient as he is without caring about it and doing it all the time — it's just impossible. He's as refined and efficient pre- and post-snap as [any] guy that's been coming out in the draft in a long time. You don't get that way by just doing it four days a week. It has to be an everyday thing."
And the beat goes on and on  
TMS : 4/16/2018 6:43 pm : link
for Rosen. Please make it stop. It has been a drag the whole off season.
RE: RE: Think with two of the decisions makers (DG and Tisch) bieng Jewish  
TMS : 4/16/2018 7:02 pm : link
In comment 13916373 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 13916363 TMS said:


Quote:


and the empty suit Mara . Rosen will be our guy . For how long we will see. Such is life. Surprise me. Hope we win the SB with him but he will not be ELI resilence wise. MO


Gettleman converted to Christianity.
You are right I apologize.
You do realize that suggesting that this franchise  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/16/2018 7:05 pm : link
would make a football decision based on religion of a player is both completely ridiculous and also a total insult, right?
the one guy i don't want at #2 is DE Chubb  
xtian : 4/16/2018 7:10 pm : link
He's very good, but not special. Nelson and Barkley are special, take either of them--for nelson maybe a trade to the broncos #5. OR the QB of their choice with hopefully not their first choice going to Cleveland.
RE: You do realize that suggesting that this franchise  
xtian : 4/16/2018 7:13 pm : link
In comment 13916521 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
would make a football decision based on religion of a player is both completely ridiculous and also a total insult, right?


only if the guy was a religious nut and it INTERFERED with playing football, otherwise no one cares.
RE: the one guy i don't want at #2 is DE Chubb  
GFAN52 : 4/16/2018 7:27 pm : link
In comment 13916528 xtian said:
Quote:
He's very good, but not special. Nelson and Barkley are special, take either of them--for nelson maybe a trade to the broncos #5. OR the QB of their choice with hopefully not their first choice going to Cleveland.


I'm for Chubb in a trade down to 4 only.
RE: You do realize that suggesting that this franchise  
TMS : 4/16/2018 8:39 pm : link
In comment 13916521 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
would make a football decision based on religion of a player is both completely ridiculous and also a total insult, right?
Yes. my bad and I apologize for it . Will not happen again .
The more I hear about Rosen ...  
FStubbs : 4/16/2018 9:07 pm : link
... the more I feel that, concussions and injuries aside, this is the true generational talent in the draft and I'm starting to think the Giants should roll the dice and grab him at #2. He seems like the Rodgers/Brady class of QB and you can't pass on a player like that.

I'd be okay with Darnold, as he seems like a guy with a good future in the league as well. I want no part of Mayfield in NY (though he'd be fine most elsewhere), and Allen is sketchier the more I see of him.

I'd be disappointed but wouldn't throw the remote if we went Barkley or Nelson. Chubb I'd be tempted to, only because I don't think he fits our scheme anymore.
RE: Reading the tea leaves  
Danny80 : 4/16/2018 9:55 pm : link
I don't have any inside info, but I too have had a hunch for a while that the Giants have been purposely silent on Rosen because he's the guy they've wanted since before, and more so after, the Combine. Maybe it's just because he's the guy I would most like to see the Giants draft.

I admit though -- I'm one of those guys who tends to believe that a player, especially a QB, who was very highly touted out of high school, then checked almost all of the boxes and expectations in college and remained equally highly touted throughout college and goes into the draft as a legit first round prospect, those guys tend to have success, or at least tend not to be busts, in the NFL.

Just off of memory, players who stick out to me who were very highly rated (mostly five star) prospects out of high school and were first round prospects in the NFL include Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Matthew Stafford, Ryan Luck, Cam Newton, Jameis Winston, Deshaun Watson. There are probably more in the last 15-20 years who I can't think of. These guys all had the eye-popping talent from early on, and then proved their metal in college. Many highly touted QBs out of high school just don't live up to the same potential in college or get side tracked for one reason or another. It takes talent, luck and very hard work to make it through that scrutiny and land on top. Lower tiered NFL caliber highly touted QBs I recall recently are Christian Hackenberg, Matt Barkley, Chris Simms, Mark Sanchez, Jimmy Claussen and Ryan Mallet, but Sanchez was the only one of those guys who was heading into the draft as a sure fire first round prospect. So he's the only one I can really think of in that category who was a true bust--and I personally felt he was always overrated because of the Carson Palmer/Matt Leinart success at USC. The one other guy I remember from way back who fits that mold was Todd Maranovich (also USC), but he had severe off field issues. I know you can't put too much emphasis on these sorts of comparisons, but I do think there may be something to it.

That said, putting Rosen's "character" issues and concussion concerns aside, can anyone point to real weaknesses in his game as a first round prospect, as compared to other top prospects who have come through over the years. His game acumen is supposedly equal to or superior to Peyton's at that point in his career; he has probably a better arm than Peyton -- Eli had a stronger arm than Peyton too, but Peyton was better because the guy studied and knew everything about football, while Eli was supposedly more of a typical teenager in high school and college; he is very accurate, has great mechanics and footwork in the pocket; he's probably a better athlete than Eli and Peyton were in college based on his combine numbers and tennis background, and supposedly isn't a bad basketball player either; he's almost the same size and weight as Eli was when he came out a year later at age 22, and at barely 21 years old, the kid should easily be capable of adding 10-20 pounds of muscle to his frame by the time he's 23-24, almost from natural physical maturation alone, not to mention an NFL workout regimen.

The one downside I'm aware of, as a pure football player, is that he doesn't appear to make a lot of plays when things break down in the pocket, some of his off target throws occur when he's under pressure, and he doesn't show a propensity to extend the play with his feet, even if he has the raw athleticism to do so. This may well be a legitimate weakness, just as it is with most pocket passers over the years -- with Peyton, with Eli, with Tom Brady, with Dan Marino. I'd love to have a great pure pocket passer who is also a phenomenal athlete -- I actually preferred Ben to Eli in 2004 -- , but John Elway and Andrew Luck only come across once every 25-30 years, and despite Luck's size, he's struggled with many injury issues in the NFL that he didn't have in college.

What am I missing -- in terms of his ability as a pure QB prospect?

I put the "character" stuff to the side because I just don't buy it. You don't become that technically superior and intelligent about the game without putting in more work than anyone else; it's not something that just happens naturally. And watching his games, the guy has taken numerous shots and popped back up; his physical toughness doesn't seem to be a fair topic of criticism. Concussions are an issue, I concede, but many players have had concussions in college and been OK in the NFL. And realistically, if any of these top QB prospects gets a $25-35M deal, with $20M guaranteed, and then suffers a serious head injury (or numerous serious head injuries) three years in and is told he may suffer from depression or uncontrollable violent behavior or bad memory loss by age 50 if he doesn't retire, well each of these QBs would be fools if they don't take the $20M and walk away. It has nothing to do with whether they grew up wealthy or what they can do after football, certainly not with $10+M in the bank after taxes; it's just common sense. And if any of them have families, the thought of their families alone would force them to retire. So the issue that he'd be more likely to walk away than another guy doesn't hold a lot of water for me. The question as to whether he will be predisposed to getting more concussions is a question that the Giants and every other team have to do all they can to figure out from a medical perspective. But few people seem be suggesting that his concussions were particularly severe.
JT Giants: You may want a RB at 2  
Giants34 : 4/16/2018 10:17 pm : link
Which is a move that will only set this franchise back, because as Colin so appropriately put it, we will simply have to give those picks back just to pick one in a couple years. The evidence shows that to be true:

Buffalo: Traded down last year, looking to mortgage future to trade up now;
Rams: Traded down and passed up RGIII (which broke right for them), traded up for Goff;
Houston: Mortgaged 4th pick overall to get Watson and 3rd pick in 2nd round to rid themselves of Osweiler because of QB hell.

If you have a chance to get a QB, you get a QB. You don't draft a RB, even if it is a potentially great one. And you know why? Because you can get great RBs in the latter rounds. You cannot get great QBs in the latter rounds, barring a huge exception to the rule.

Colin: I'm all on board with the Giants taking Rosen. I am hoping he is the pick, and your information is correct.
Giants34  
jtgiants : 4/17/2018 4:51 am : link
First of all. I don't want Rosen. I don't want the player. Secondly, you act like I'm the only one hearing Barkley/ Chubb. The reality is most are hearing Barkley / Chubb. Few are hearing Rosen. I believe eli can still play. I have also been told eli was given assurances that if he plays well and so does team he'll be allowed to finish his contract w team. I don't believe it makes any sense to draft a qb and sit him 2 years with the way contracts are structured today. The giants want to win now. I think they can win now. I think the 2 best players in this draft may be Barkley and Chubb. I will also say the only qb I like is Darnold. Ill also say I have been told Rosen could very well fall in first round. Well see
Giants34  
jtgiants : 4/17/2018 4:56 am : link
Three more things. The first is the giants like Webb. The second thing is there are exceptions. The cowboys, jags, and rams don't regret taking zeke, fournette, or Gurley. Finally, taking the wrong qb at top of the draft is the worst thing a team can do
RE: Giants34  
Milton : 4/17/2018 5:59 am : link
In comment 13916975 jtgiants said:
Quote:
Finally, taking the wrong qb at top of the draft is the worst thing a team can do
Passing on a QB that has a Hall of Fame career with the Jets is the worst thing the team can do.
Jt  
Big Rick in FL : 4/17/2018 6:40 am : link
That's why we think you're wrong. Everybody has Barkley/Chubb yet nobody has had any clue of the HC, OC or any other coaches we were going to hire. Nobody had any clue of what players we were going to sign. Yet everybody knows their draft pick? Seems like you are all getting played.
RE: RE: Giants34  
jeff57 : 4/17/2018 8:19 am : link
In comment 13916978 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13916975 jtgiants said:


Quote:


Finally, taking the wrong qb at top of the draft is the worst thing a team can do

Passing on a QB that has a Hall of Fame career with the Jets is the worst thing the team can do.


Yep.
Big rick  
jtgiants : 4/17/2018 9:47 am : link
Maybe your right. I don't see it and think your going to be severely disappointed but well see. Well know next thursday
I think thet Jets pick Mayfield  
JonC : 4/17/2018 9:54 am : link
Rosen to Broncos.
RE: The more I hear about Rosen ...  
Eman11 : 4/17/2018 10:49 am : link
In comment 13916693 FStubbs said:
Quote:
... the more I feel that, concussions and injuries aside, this is the true generational talent in the draft and I'm starting to think the Giants should roll the dice and grab him at #2. He seems like the Rodgers/Brady class of QB and you can't pass on a player like that.

I'd be okay with Darnold, as he seems like a guy with a good future in the league as well. I want no part of Mayfield in NY (though he'd be fine most elsewhere), and Allen is sketchier the more I see of him.

I'd be disappointed but wouldn't throw the remote if we went Barkley or Nelson. Chubb I'd be tempted to, only because I don't think he fits our scheme anymore.


Sorry but I don't think you "roll the dice" with a #2 pick. You love a guy who's your #1 target and you draft him with conviction and no reservations or you trade back.
RE: Giants34  
Giants34 : 4/17/2018 11:48 am : link
In comment 13916975 jtgiants said:
Quote:
Three more things. The first is the giants like Webb. The second thing is there are exceptions. The cowboys, jags, and rams don't regret taking zeke, fournette, or Gurley. Finally, taking the wrong qb at top of the draft is the worst thing a team can do


In the Zeke draft, the Cowboys drafted Zeke then Jaylen Smith. Do you think they would prefer Ramsey and Derrick Henry instead? You can get high impact RBs later in the draft.

I don't know what everyone is hearing. JonC has said Barkley/Chubb/Nelson/Darnold, but Colin has said, overwhelmingly, Rosen. This is what I know: this offseason, since Gettleman took over, basically no one, not here, not the press, no one, has gotten anything right (with the possible exception of Hitdog). (That's not meant as an insult, by the way, I love the rumors.) People thought we had hired McD, but that was not the case. The press constantly speculated on different people as the favorites, but those proved to be false as well.

We were also met with many other surprises. Basically, the Giants have done a much better job of plugging the leaks that plagued the organization for years under Reese. Right now everyone is saying the Giants are interested in the draft's top prospects. How hard is that to do? I imagine most teams have interest in the top prospects in the draft.

Gettleman is a bad ass, and my bet is he came in and said if anyone leaks info, they are gone. That probably stopped that nonsense. I underestimated how important that aspect of our job was, as we had major information leaks.
RE: Big rick  
Milton : 4/17/2018 11:55 am : link
In comment 13917153 jtgiants said:
Quote:
Maybe your right. I don't see it and think your going to be severely disappointed but well see. Well know next thursday

Substitute apostrophes for pronouns.... - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Giants34  
Milton : 4/17/2018 11:59 am : link
In comment 13917373 Giants34 said:
Quote:

Gettleman is a bad ass, and my bet is he came in and said if anyone leaks info, they are gone.
He doesn't need to be a bad ass, he just needs to keep his own mouth shut.
What if Gettlemen has decided who the Giants are going to pick  
cosmicj : 4/17/2018 12:19 pm : link
#2 weeks ago? Colin's comments about the ownership dinner with Rosen on March 19 are convincing to me. No cloak and dagger stuff here. A big company is making a major personnel selection. DG is convinced Rosen will be there and made sure the owners have met him. Things are checked off - now they're all concentrating on that important set of later picks.

Thanks to everyone - one of the most interesting recent threads on BBI.
Taking the wrong anything  
KWALL2 : 4/17/2018 12:27 pm : link
At the top of the draft is the worst thing.

If Chubb or Barkley are only OK it kills you just like the QB would. It’s the same rookie deal. After the rookie deal you can drop the player. QB or not. Barkley is instantly one of the highest paid guys at his position. If he isn’t special it hurts just like the QB would.

If Rosen is there and Giants keep the pick he’s the guy. Just too much value for a QB with his throwing skills and brain. This kid was running Peyton Manning’s offense in 8th grade. He’s got everything you want.

If Browns take Allen then Rosen goes 2 it won’t matter who makes the pick. If Giants don’t take him they trade down and some other team moves up for Rosen.

gettleman should be crucified  
jintz4life : 4/17/2018 12:35 pm : link
if he stays at 2 and doesnt take a qb

RE: RE: Giants34  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2018 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13917373 Giants34 said:
Quote:
In comment 13916975 jtgiants said:


Quote:


Three more things. The first is the giants like Webb. The second thing is there are exceptions. The cowboys, jags, and rams don't regret taking zeke, fournette, or Gurley. Finally, taking the wrong qb at top of the draft is the worst thing a team can do



In the Zeke draft, the Cowboys drafted Zeke then Jaylen Smith. Do you think they would prefer Ramsey and Derrick Henry instead? You can get high impact RBs later in the draft.

I don't know what everyone is hearing. JonC has said Barkley/Chubb/Nelson/Darnold, but Colin has said, overwhelmingly, Rosen. This is what I know: this offseason, since Gettleman took over, basically no one, not here, not the press, no one, has gotten anything right (with the possible exception of Hitdog). (That's not meant as an insult, by the way, I love the rumors.) People thought we had hired McD, but that was not the case. The press constantly speculated on different people as the favorites, but those proved to be false as well.

We were also met with many other surprises. Basically, the Giants have done a much better job of plugging the leaks that plagued the organization for years under Reese. Right now everyone is saying the Giants are interested in the draft's top prospects. How hard is that to do? I imagine most teams have interest in the top prospects in the draft.

Gettleman is a bad ass, and my bet is he came in and said if anyone leaks info, they are gone. That probably stopped that nonsense. I underestimated how important that aspect of our job was, as we had major information leaks.


How do you proove someone leaked info? You'd have to threaten to fire whole departments. That seems unlikely.
RE: RE: RE: Giants34  
Giants34 : 4/17/2018 1:25 pm : link
In comment 13917457 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13917373 Giants34 said:


Quote:


In comment 13916975 jtgiants said:


Quote:


Three more things. The first is the giants like Webb. The second thing is there are exceptions. The cowboys, jags, and rams don't regret taking zeke, fournette, or Gurley. Finally, taking the wrong qb at top of the draft is the worst thing a team can do



In the Zeke draft, the Cowboys drafted Zeke then Jaylen Smith. Do you think they would prefer Ramsey and Derrick Henry instead? You can get high impact RBs later in the draft.

I don't know what everyone is hearing. JonC has said Barkley/Chubb/Nelson/Darnold, but Colin has said, overwhelmingly, Rosen. This is what I know: this offseason, since Gettleman took over, basically no one, not here, not the press, no one, has gotten anything right (with the possible exception of Hitdog). (That's not meant as an insult, by the way, I love the rumors.) People thought we had hired McD, but that was not the case. The press constantly speculated on different people as the favorites, but those proved to be false as well.

We were also met with many other surprises. Basically, the Giants have done a much better job of plugging the leaks that plagued the organization for years under Reese. Right now everyone is saying the Giants are interested in the draft's top prospects. How hard is that to do? I imagine most teams have interest in the top prospects in the draft.

Gettleman is a bad ass, and my bet is he came in and said if anyone leaks info, they are gone. That probably stopped that nonsense. I underestimated how important that aspect of our job was, as we had major information leaks.



How do you proove someone leaked info? You'd have to threaten to fire whole departments. That seems unlikely.


It's not about proving it. There are ways of plugging leaks, and there mere threat of termination of employment stops the majority of leaks.

And, as someone said above, the advantage of picking a QB at 2 - if you hit they give you such a salary advantage. Even if you hit on a RB at 2, you are already paying that RB as one of the best in the game; it is not worth it salary-wise. It simply is not cost effective to pick a RB in the top 5.
RE: RE: RE: Giants34  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/17/2018 2:12 pm : link
In comment 13917457 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13917373 Giants34 said:


Quote:


In comment 13916975 jtgiants said:


Quote:


Three more things. The first is the giants like Webb. The second thing is there are exceptions. The cowboys, jags, and rams don't regret taking zeke, fournette, or Gurley. Finally, taking the wrong qb at top of the draft is the worst thing a team can do



In the Zeke draft, the Cowboys drafted Zeke then Jaylen Smith. Do you think they would prefer Ramsey and Derrick Henry instead? You can get high impact RBs later in the draft.

I don't know what everyone is hearing. JonC has said Barkley/Chubb/Nelson/Darnold, but Colin has said, overwhelmingly, Rosen. This is what I know: this offseason, since Gettleman took over, basically no one, not here, not the press, no one, has gotten anything right (with the possible exception of Hitdog). (That's not meant as an insult, by the way, I love the rumors.) People thought we had hired McD, but that was not the case. The press constantly speculated on different people as the favorites, but those proved to be false as well.

We were also met with many other surprises. Basically, the Giants have done a much better job of plugging the leaks that plagued the organization for years under Reese. Right now everyone is saying the Giants are interested in the draft's top prospects. How hard is that to do? I imagine most teams have interest in the top prospects in the draft.

Gettleman is a bad ass, and my bet is he came in and said if anyone leaks info, they are gone. That probably stopped that nonsense. I underestimated how important that aspect of our job was, as we had major information leaks.



How do you proove someone leaked info? You'd have to threaten to fire whole departments. That seems unlikely.

Here's how - you make each of them only privy to part of the info, and/or give each of them intentionally incorrect info. Whatever version of the story comes out in the press identifies your leak.
Anyone here who thinks  
TMS : 4/17/2018 2:52 pm : link
DG and Abrams do not know all these things is underestimating them and selling them short. We are in good hands . Not like with the last group of front office fools. MO
RE: RE: RE: RE: Giants34  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2018 3:21 pm : link
In comment 13917624 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13917457 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13917373 Giants34 said:


Quote:


In comment 13916975 jtgiants said:


Quote:


Three more things. The first is the giants like Webb. The second thing is there are exceptions. The cowboys, jags, and rams don't regret taking zeke, fournette, or Gurley. Finally, taking the wrong qb at top of the draft is the worst thing a team can do



In the Zeke draft, the Cowboys drafted Zeke then Jaylen Smith. Do you think they would prefer Ramsey and Derrick Henry instead? You can get high impact RBs later in the draft.

I don't know what everyone is hearing. JonC has said Barkley/Chubb/Nelson/Darnold, but Colin has said, overwhelmingly, Rosen. This is what I know: this offseason, since Gettleman took over, basically no one, not here, not the press, no one, has gotten anything right (with the possible exception of Hitdog). (That's not meant as an insult, by the way, I love the rumors.) People thought we had hired McD, but that was not the case. The press constantly speculated on different people as the favorites, but those proved to be false as well.

We were also met with many other surprises. Basically, the Giants have done a much better job of plugging the leaks that plagued the organization for years under Reese. Right now everyone is saying the Giants are interested in the draft's top prospects. How hard is that to do? I imagine most teams have interest in the top prospects in the draft.

Gettleman is a bad ass, and my bet is he came in and said if anyone leaks info, they are gone. That probably stopped that nonsense. I underestimated how important that aspect of our job was, as we had major information leaks.



How do you proove someone leaked info? You'd have to threaten to fire whole departments. That seems unlikely.


Here's how - you make each of them only privy to part of the info, and/or give each of them intentionally incorrect info. Whatever version of the story comes out in the press identifies your leak.


Yeah, but I question how realistic it is that Dave would have time to play Mission:Impossible secret agent stuff like this.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Giants34  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/17/2018 3:25 pm : link
In comment 13917735 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13917624 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13917457 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13917373 Giants34 said:


Quote:


In comment 13916975 jtgiants said:


Quote:


Three more things. The first is the giants like Webb. The second thing is there are exceptions. The cowboys, jags, and rams don't regret taking zeke, fournette, or Gurley. Finally, taking the wrong qb at top of the draft is the worst thing a team can do



In the Zeke draft, the Cowboys drafted Zeke then Jaylen Smith. Do you think they would prefer Ramsey and Derrick Henry instead? You can get high impact RBs later in the draft.

I don't know what everyone is hearing. JonC has said Barkley/Chubb/Nelson/Darnold, but Colin has said, overwhelmingly, Rosen. This is what I know: this offseason, since Gettleman took over, basically no one, not here, not the press, no one, has gotten anything right (with the possible exception of Hitdog). (That's not meant as an insult, by the way, I love the rumors.) People thought we had hired McD, but that was not the case. The press constantly speculated on different people as the favorites, but those proved to be false as well.

We were also met with many other surprises. Basically, the Giants have done a much better job of plugging the leaks that plagued the organization for years under Reese. Right now everyone is saying the Giants are interested in the draft's top prospects. How hard is that to do? I imagine most teams have interest in the top prospects in the draft.

Gettleman is a bad ass, and my bet is he came in and said if anyone leaks info, they are gone. That probably stopped that nonsense. I underestimated how important that aspect of our job was, as we had major information leaks.



How do you proove someone leaked info? You'd have to threaten to fire whole departments. That seems unlikely.


Here's how - you make each of them only privy to part of the info, and/or give each of them intentionally incorrect info. Whatever version of the story comes out in the press identifies your leak.



Yeah, but I question how realistic it is that Dave would have time to play Mission:Impossible secret agent stuff like this.

I guess it depends how much of a competitive disadvantage one believes the leaks to be, and conversely, how much of an advantage it might be to actively run a misinformation campaign.

If you're going to run a misinformation campaign anyway, you might as well run multiple iterations of it and kill two birds with one stone.
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