Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

Smith: PFT on Gettleman and quarterbacks

joeinpa : 4/16/2018 10:07 am
Under Monday reading Smith made the point that whether Giants go quarterback at #2 will depend in large part upon Gettleman s assessment as to how much mileage Eli has left.

If true that surprises me. Coming off a 3-13 season it is unlikely Giants will be a Super Bowl contender next season. In effect Gettlemen would be banking on contending with a quarterback the two seasons following with a quarterback that will turn 39 and 40 during those seasons.

I have been a big Eli fan, but that seems like big risk if they believe a guy like Darnold can be the next guy.

I ve just believed all along if Giants pass on quarterback it would be because they don't believe he represents the value at #2, not because of how much mileage Eli has left.



It doesnít matter how much time they think Eli has left,  
Big Blue '56 : 4/16/2018 10:10 am : link
if they donít like the QBs at the top, they will pass. If they do, they will draft one at 2. Little to do with Eli, imo
Two schools of thought here  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 4/16/2018 10:11 am : link
1) Go the GB route with Favre and Rodgers. NOw, Webb could be the answer or it may be a pick this year. I dunno.

2) Eli is an iron man and doesn't miss games unless coach really needs to see Geno. But Eli's performance has been up and down past couple years. Would an improved O-Line and Barkley help? Probably.

For me, Eli is old and getting older and just because Brady continues to be Brady doesn't mean that is the norm. It's not. You're sitting at #2. Likely wont be there again for a long long time. Just hope that DG feels either Webb or one of these QBs is a HOf type player. ;)
56  
joeinpa : 4/16/2018 10:12 am : link
Yea that s what I ve thought all along
or they really  
gmenrule : 4/16/2018 10:14 am : link
like Davis Webb. He is the determining factor in my opinion. If they believe Webb can replace Eli in a year or two, then they are better off served drafting Barkley and having a ridiculous offense going forward. Then Barkley takes the pressure off Webb when he takes the reins from Eli. That would be golden IF it played out that way.
Why do so many people on BBI insist on adding years to Eli's age?  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 10:18 am : link
He just turned 37 this past January. He will play next season at 37 years old. He will play the final year of his contract at 38 years old.

The only way you will see Eli play at 39 and 40 for the Giants is if they add an additional 2 years to his current contract, which has two years left.
RE: or they really  
Justlurking : 4/16/2018 10:18 am : link
In comment 13915695 gmenrule said:
Quote:
like Davis Webb. He is the determining factor in my opinion. If they believe Webb can replace Eli in a year or two, then they are better off served drafting Barkley and having a ridiculous offense going forward. Then Barkley takes the pressure off Webb when he takes the reins from Eli. That would be golden IF it played out that way.


I think Davis Webb has nothing to do with the decision. If you think one of these QBs can be a special player and you dont take them because of Davis Webb, you do not deserve to be anywhere near an NFL front office.
RE: Two schools of thought here  
jvm52106 : 4/16/2018 10:20 am : link
In comment 13915688 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
1) Go the GB route with Favre and Rodgers. NOw, Webb could be the answer or it may be a pick this year. I dunno.

2) Eli is an iron man and doesn't miss games unless coach really needs to see Geno. But Eli's performance has been up and down past couple years. Would an improved O-Line and Barkley help? Probably.

For me, Eli is old and getting older and just because Brady continues to be Brady doesn't mean that is the norm. It's not. You're sitting at #2. Likely wont be there again for a long long time. Just hope that DG feels either Webb or one of these QBs is a HOf type player. ;)


But, the Favre Rodgers scenario was different. GB got Rodgers way down in RD 1 where he was too hard to pass up. We are talking #2 and to be honest the only QB I really think is a winner in the making is Mayfield. Darnold could be a turnover machine and Rosen just seems like a guy who will tease but never deliver. Allen is the wild card who needs to sit a year or two.
It depends on how you interpret the local media narrative  
UberAlias : 4/16/2018 10:20 am : link
The information is out there that the Giants are not going QB and likely comes down to Barkley and Chubb, barring trade back. This is a consistent message we have heard from a few of the more plugged in beats. This is either 1) their intel is reliable and there is transparency here, or 2) the beats are simply delivering the message the team wanted them to and their intentions are to either trade back or they are targeting a QB and gone to lengths to conceal the fact and target.

I'm more inclined to believe the latter -that they have at least one QB they really want. They've learned from mistakes in prior drafts and aren't going to blow this one on account of loose lips.
RE: RE: or they really  
The Dude : 4/16/2018 10:21 am : link
In comment 13915703 Justlurking said:
Quote:
In comment 13915695 gmenrule said:


Quote:


like Davis Webb. He is the determining factor in my opinion. If they believe Webb can replace Eli in a year or two, then they are better off served drafting Barkley and having a ridiculous offense going forward. Then Barkley takes the pressure off Webb when he takes the reins from Eli. That would be golden IF it played out that way.



I think Davis Webb has nothing to do with the decision. If you think one of these QBs can be a special player and you dont take them because of Davis Webb, you do not deserve to be anywhere near an NFL front office.


^^this
Here's how much time Eli has left: two years!  
Milton : 4/16/2018 10:32 am : link
I love the guy and I don't blame him at all for recent failures, but I just don't see that it makes economic sense to give him an extension that will be in the neighborhood of $30M/year (because that's the going rate for franchise QBs and if he's not a franchise QB, why are you giving him an extension?). This is why it makes economic sense to take advantage of having the #2 overall pick by using it on a QB, despite the fact that it could mean he sits for as much as two years.

In an ideal scenario, Eli and the Giants have a good year. But Eli sees the writing on the wall for 2020 and doesn't want to wait to see what happens in 2019 and so asks to be traded to a team that will give him an extension (the Alex Smith trade to the Redskins serves at the blue print). One possible destination could be Jacksonville if Bortles plays poorly in 2018 (the Jags would absorb a sizable cap hit, but in real money it would mean exchanging the $16M that Bortles is due in 2019 for the $17M that Eli is due).

If we are going to wait two years for a QB to develop  
TMS : 4/16/2018 10:42 am : link
then Josh Allen has the biggest upside, He is the biggest, has the strongest arm, highest wonderlic score, biggest hands and can can move around if a play breaks down. His college performance may not be as good as some of the others but theirs are no bargain either. Watching ELI, and learning and being taught by Shurmur and Shula could turn him into another Rethlisberger.
RE: RE: or they really  
AcidTest : 4/16/2018 10:45 am : link
In comment 13915703 Justlurking said:
Quote:
In comment 13915695 gmenrule said:


Quote:


like Davis Webb. He is the determining factor in my opinion. If they believe Webb can replace Eli in a year or two, then they are better off served drafting Barkley and having a ridiculous offense going forward. Then Barkley takes the pressure off Webb when he takes the reins from Eli. That would be golden IF it played out that way.



I think Davis Webb has nothing to do with the decision. If you think one of these QBs can be a special player and you dont take them because of Davis Webb, you do not deserve to be anywhere near an NFL front office.


+1. Absolutely correct. Webb has no influence on what the Giants do at #2. The Giants know next to nothing about Webb, certainly not whether he can succeed Eli. My own view is that no QB, except maybe Darnold, is worth the #2 pick. But I understand why others think otherwise, and do expect the Giants to pick Darnold if the Browns don't.
Britt  
joeinpa : 4/16/2018 10:48 am : link
Eli will turn 38 during next season. If he played two years after that he would be 39/40

That s a fact. And if we re talking passing on quarterback because Eli has years left, I m assuming that means a new contract

RE: Here's how much time Eli has left: two years!  
old man : 4/16/2018 10:48 am : link
In comment 13915722 Milton said:
Quote:
I love the guy and I don't blame him at all for recent failures, but I just don't see that it makes economic sense to give him an extension that will be in the neighborhood of $30M/year (because that's the going rate for franchise QBs and if he's not a franchise QB, why are you giving him an extension?). This is why it makes economic sense to take advantage of having the #2 overall pick by using it on a QB, despite the fact that it could mean he sits for as much as two years.

+1 on Eli has the job the rest of his contract, barring a total loss of skills, or a resurgence due to a better OL which may buy him an extension.


In an ideal scenario, Eli and the Giants have a good year. But Eli sees the writing on the wall for 2020 and doesn't

want to wait to see what happens in 2019 and so asks to be traded to a team that will give him an extension (the Alex Smith trade to the Redskins serves at the blue print). One possible destination could be Jacksonville if Bortles plays poorly in 2018 (the Jags would absorb a sizable cap hit, but in real money it would mean exchanging the $16M that Bortles is due in 2019 for the $17M that Eli is due).
If all things are equal ( and they rarely are),  
TheMick7 : 4/16/2018 10:57 am : link
the Giants have to consider this from a cap prospective. I think if Darnold is there at #2,he's the pick but the other 2,Allen & Rosen,might be the pick as well. QBS/cap are a huge deal in putting together a winning/championship team w/Wentz & Goff prime examples. Eli at $20+ million is a large part of the cap & limits the things we can do moving forward. Now if they truly don't consider any of those 3 worthy of #2, then cap wise the move is either Chubb or trade down. I love Barkley but RB has many options in later rounds so either we address QB,DE or trade w/Broncos (w/Anderson cut they may want Saquon or a QB) where at #5 Chubb,Nelson or Barkley will be.
I don't understand why some folks believe that coaching  
CT Charlie : 4/16/2018 10:59 am : link
can turn a player into a Hall of Famer. Is Michael Jordan the product of good coaching? LeBron? Okay, down the ladder... Ray Allen? Patrick Ewing? Or maybe Roger Staubach? Drew Brees?

Good coaching can make a player good enough to win playoff games, and bad coaching can arguably undermine a player. But to think that any of the 3-5 primo QB's this year are going to be HOF is a stretch, either via ability or coaching. It's possible, but it's wishful thinking.
Don't Think Giants Go QB at #2,  
clatterbuck : 4/16/2018 11:04 am : link
but if they do, I hope it's Rosen they want and Rosen they get.
RE: Why do so many people on BBI insist on adding years to Eli's age?  
the mike : 4/16/2018 11:05 am : link
In comment 13915702 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
He just turned 37 this past January. He will play next season at 37 years old. He will play the final year of his contract at 38 years old.

The only way you will see Eli play at 39 and 40 for the Giants is if they add an additional 2 years to his current contract, which has two years left.


Exactly!! It is truly bizarre. He will be playing in his 37th and 38th year under his current contract. And if Eli leads the team to a super bowl in either of the next two years, he will then be given a Drew Brees like contract for his 39th and 40th years... These facts do not change because people wish them so.
I've seen Eli..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/16/2018 11:05 am : link
already called 38 (even 39) by a couple of posters.

Quote:
Britt
joeinpa : 10:48 am : link : reply
Eli will turn 38 during next season. If he played two years after that he would be 39/40

That s a fact. And if we re talking passing on quarterback because Eli has years left, I m assuming that means a new contract


Eli is 37. He'll play almost the entire year as a 37 year old as he doesn't turn 38 until January.

The next two years, he'd play as a 38 year old and a 39 year old for nearly the entire season, if he continues to play.

I've heard that he's going to be 40, 41 and even 42.

I'm with Britt - it is strange how people keep acting like he's a teenager looking to buy alcohol and keep inflating his age.
CT Charlie  
Big Blue '56 : 4/16/2018 11:07 am : link
Quote:


Good coaching can make a player good enough to win playoff games



Shurmur is the possible huge factor here, possibly with Webb, assuming theyíre meh on the projected top QBs
FMIC  
joeinpa : 4/16/2018 11:19 am : link
I think we both said the same thing. The difference being that to Support my point I slanted the facts, but they are still accurate.

But you are correct. He will play most of next season at the age of 37.
The season will end on Dec 30th,  
Section331 : 4/16/2018 11:24 am : link
Eli's bday is Jan 3rd. So unless we're making the playoffs, Eli will be 37 for the entire season. This is all a ridiculous exercise, but the length some will go to prove their point is absurd.
I hope..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/16/2018 11:24 am : link
he plays in February as a 38 year old:)
It's sort of weird....  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 11:31 am : link
Eli's age has to be the most misrepresented number in the history of BBI. It continually happens. You'd think it would be pretty easy.
And no OP, it's not just your thread.  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 11:31 am : link
.
Gettleman is not a free agent in this decision  
HomerJones45 : 4/16/2018 11:32 am : link
GM Jr. is the important guy here. He's not going to sit there and take another media shitstorm for touching Eli. The question is does he emulate Dad who stuck with YA Tittle until the bitter end or does he emulate the Packers, who he seems to admire, and take the star in waiting like Favre-Rodgers.
Why can't Eli play as long as  
TMS : 4/16/2018 11:33 am : link
Brady. Reese, Rothlisberger, Farve etc. He has had less injuries or lost time than any of them ? It has been his supporting cast that made us and up and down team, not him. These QBs are all unproven and flawed in different ways. Pass on them all. Get us a back into contention sooner rather than later by drafting a Gold jacket player or getting more picks with this opportunity. Not gambling on a QB who will sit for two or more years and may never work out anyway. IMO
RE: I hope..  
the mike : 4/16/2018 11:34 am : link
In comment 13915826 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
he plays in February as a 38 year old:)


Yes indeed. He will be exactly 38 and one month when he is under center in Super Bowl LIII.
56  
INDYJIM : 4/16/2018 11:38 am : link
Is right. It is a matter of if any of the quarterbacks are rated by the giants as being their next long term starter. If not they will look at other positions
RE: Why do so many people on BBI insist on adding years to Eli's age?  
map7711 : 4/16/2018 11:40 am : link
In comment 13915702 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
He just turned 37 this past January. He will play next season at 37 years old. He will play the final year of his contract at 38 years old.

The only way you will see Eli play at 39 and 40 for the Giants is if they add an additional 2 years to his current contract, which has two years left.


Because it fits their narrative. Period. If the Giants pick a QB at two it has nada to do w Eli. Eli and the Giants both know that Eli will be done very soon. Webb has more to do w this draft than Eli does. And even that is not a whole lot -for reasons talked about endlessly here.
If I'm GM and I'm thinking QB  
Motley Two : 4/16/2018 11:41 am : link
I wouldn't factor Manning.
This would be his last season for the Giants.

Haven't we seen enough  
brunswick : 4/16/2018 11:41 am : link
Of Eli to know NOW is the time to draft a QB. Do we really need to watch a couple more years of this ineptitude? It's hard to fathom that there is a very good chance we will see Mr Sloppy behind center for another 2-3 years...
RE: Why do so many people on BBI insist on adding years to Eli's age?  
Thegratefulhead : 4/16/2018 11:47 am : link
In comment 13915702 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
He just turned 37 this past January. He will play next season at 37 years old. He will play the final year of his contract at 38 years old.

The only way you will see Eli play at 39 and 40 for the Giants is if they add an additional 2 years to his current contract, which has two years left.
They realize he will turn 38 BEFORE the end of the regular season. You can state it either way with IMHO and be mostly correct. Neither bothers me and does not require nitpicking.
The regular season ends on December 30th.  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 11:48 am : link
Eli turns 38 on January 3rd.
Britt..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/16/2018 11:49 am : link
close enough. Hell, Eli is almost 40 you realize??
RE: Britt..  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 11:50 am : link
In comment 13915862 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
close enough. Hell, Eli is almost 40 you realize??


Don't I know it, I'm really bummed out because I'm about to turn 50 (I'm 42 currently).
RE: RE: Why do so many people on BBI insist on adding years to Eli's age?  
Section331 : 4/16/2018 11:51 am : link
In comment 13915858 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:

They realize he will turn 38 BEFORE the end of the regular season. You can state it either way with IMHO and be mostly correct. Neither bothers me and does not require nitpicking.


No, he will not. The season ends Dec 30th, Eli doesn't turn 38 until Jan 3rd. I don't know why everyone is so obsessed with the difference between him being 37 years and 361 days v. 38 years, but here we are.
RE: It doesnít matter how much time they think Eli has left,  
Victor in CT : 4/16/2018 11:57 am : link
In comment 13915683 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
if they donít like the QBs at the top, they will pass. If they do, they will draft one at 2. Little to do with Eli, imo


Spot on.
RE: Haven't we seen enough  
TMS : 4/16/2018 12:15 pm : link
In comment 13915853 brunswick said:
Quote:
Of Eli to know NOW is the time to draft a QB. Do we really need to watch a couple more years of this ineptitude? It's hard to fathom that there is a very good chance we will see Mr Sloppy behind center for another 2-3 years...
Nonsense !
RE: RE: I hope..  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 4/16/2018 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13915844 the mike said:
Quote:
In comment 13915826 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


he plays in February as a 38 year old:)



Yes indeed. He will be exactly 38 and one month when he is under center in Super Bowl LIII.


Can his geriatric ass handle another cold ride down in a parade in February? It's so drafty!
RE: Britt..  
Mike from Ohio : 4/16/2018 12:21 pm : link
In comment 13915862 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
close enough. Hell, Eli is almost 40 you realize??
42

At 35, Eli starting aging in dog years. He'll be almost 50 when this season starts. At the end of his current contract, he will be well into his 60s. That's just fact.
I imagine it won't  
Rick5 : 4/16/2018 12:38 pm : link
be an easy decision. If they do like one of the QBs, it seems to me that it would be a much easier call if Eli were a couple of years older or a couple of years younger.
Ok I amend my original post numbers to  
joeinpa : 4/16/2018 12:51 pm : link
A 37,38,39 year old quarterback.

Still the point being the same. That s pretty is to be playing at a high level in the NFL unless your name is Tom Brady.
Screw reaching for any position  
Carl in CT : 4/16/2018 12:55 pm : link
Take the best player at #2 or get out of that spot. Pretty easy.
RE: Ok I amend my original post numbers to  
Section331 : 4/16/2018 1:10 pm : link
In comment 13915973 joeinpa said:
Quote:
A 37,38,39 year old quarterback.

Still the point being the same. That s pretty is to be playing at a high level in the NFL unless your name is Tom Brady.


4 of the top 5 passing yardage QB's last year were 36 or older. 37 isn't the death sentence it was even 10 years ago.
RE: RE: Ok I amend my original post numbers to  
the mike : 4/16/2018 1:29 pm : link
In comment 13915992 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13915973 joeinpa said:


Quote:


A 37,38,39 year old quarterback.

Still the point being the same. That s pretty is to be playing at a high level in the NFL unless your name is Tom Brady.



4 of the top 5 passing yardage QB's last year were 36 or older. 37 isn't the death sentence it was even 10 years ago.


Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully, though vehemently, disagree. But can we please stop throwing around his age as the reason his performance has suffered the past six years. It has been a combination of dreadful scheme, poor offensive personnel and abysmal coaching. There has been no massive falloff due to his age - he is the same Eli he has always been. With a good coach and smart scheme, a talented group of "go to" weapons and a reasonably acceptable offensive line, he will have a pro bowl year in 2018...
Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully,  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 4/16/2018 2:20 pm : link
Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully, though vehemently, disagree. But can we please stop throwing around his age as the reason his performance has suffered the past six years. It has been a combination of dreadful scheme, poor offensive personnel and abysmal coaching.

I'm guessing that you're still a young guy if you think that there's no fall off in ability, of everyone, between the ages of 27 and 37.

If Gettleman passes on a QB picking 2nd and a couple of those quarterbacks become stars, it will follow him around for the rest of his career, especially if the Giants take years to find their next quarterback.

Taking a QB is the safest move he can make.

For everyone going around saying that Barkley and Chubb are the best two players in the draft, after the next two seasons have been played how likely is that they everyone will still be saying this?

A couple of influential guys like Kiper and Brandt come out saying that Barkley is the best player available and the others just jump onto the back of the truck. It's easier to go with the crowd that to name the players you really think are the best and risk looking very foolish if you're wrong.
RE: The regular season ends on December 30th.  
Thegratefulhead : 4/16/2018 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13915860 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Eli turns 38 on January 3rd.
This is a perfect example of the stupid nitpicking done here. Last year, he turned 37 before the regular season ended, this year he will turn 38 before a playoff game is played. Days, quibbling over days. /Sigh
RE: RE: RE: Ok I amend my original post numbers to  
Thegratefulhead : 4/16/2018 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13916026 the mike said:
Quote:
In comment 13915992 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 13915973 joeinpa said:


Quote:


A 37,38,39 year old quarterback.

Still the point being the same. That s pretty is to be playing at a high level in the NFL unless your name is Tom Brady.



4 of the top 5 passing yardage QB's last year were 36 or older. 37 isn't the death sentence it was even 10 years ago.



Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully, though vehemently, disagree. But can we please stop throwing around his age as the reason his performance has suffered the past six years. It has been a combination of dreadful scheme, poor offensive personnel and abysmal coaching. There has been no massive falloff due to his age - he is the same Eli he has always been. With a good coach and smart scheme, a talented group of "go to" weapons and a reasonably acceptable offensive line, he will have a pro bowl year in 2018...
Disagree, you sort data at Airyards.com that show throwing from a clean pocket only Eli vs the NFL is below league average. Also, his best statistical season in the last 6 years was under McAdoo, this seems to refute the system argument. The clean pocket analysis removes the OL from the equation. Eli was fantastic in 2011 without a running game, so we know he can perform without a running game. Then, there is the overwhelming amount of historical evidence of NFL qBs declining with age that make your claim that "Eli has had no fallout because of age", quite frankly, ridiculous.
RE: RE: The regular season ends on December 30th.  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 2:43 pm : link
In comment 13916135 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 13915860 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Eli turns 38 on January 3rd.

This is a perfect example of the stupid nitpicking done here. Last year, he turned 37 before the regular season ended, this year he will turn 38 before a playoff game is played. Days, quibbling over days. /Sigh


Last year the regular season ended on January 1st, Eli turned 37 two days later, on the third.
Whatever age Eli is, in ANY year, will be the age he is when the  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 2:44 pm : link
regular season ends that year.

Last year, he played the full season at 36.
Next season, he will play the full season at 37.
The following year, he will play the full season at 38.

This is not rocket science.
The ones doing the quibbling are the ones....  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 2:45 pm : link
trying to add an extra year to Eli's age because he turns a year older shortly after the season ends.
RE: Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully,  
Pep22 : 4/16/2018 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13916122 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:
[quote] Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully, though vehemently, disagree. But can we please stop throwing around his age as the reason his performance has suffered the past six years. It has been a combination of dreadful scheme, poor offensive personnel and abysmal coaching.

And Eli is responsible for none of it, right?

Its not that I don't "like" Eli, its that I am honest that he is not one of these precise passers like TB, DB etc. that ages gracefully or gradually. Eli's bad qualities (lack of accuracy, severe lack of mobility, turnover tendency) has worsened with age.
RE: RE: RE: The regular season ends on December 30th.  
Thegratefulhead : 4/16/2018 2:51 pm : link
In comment 13916155 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13916135 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


In comment 13915860 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Eli turns 38 on January 3rd.

This is a perfect example of the stupid nitpicking done here. Last year, he turned 37 before the regular season ended, this year he will turn 38 before a playoff game is played. Days, quibbling over days. /Sigh



Last year the regular season ended on January 1st, Eli turned 37 two days later, on the third.
Yet, even more stupidity. You are correct, failed old guy memory, but still before a playoff game was played and the official end of the season. Yet, more childish quibbling over days. Eli is old for an NFL QB, 2 or 3 days does not change that in any meaningful way, hence the stupidity.
So you've admittedly been wrong multiple times on this thread so far..  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 2:55 pm : link
but I'm the stupid one. Got it.
RE: Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully,  
the mike : 4/16/2018 2:58 pm : link
In comment 13916122 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:
Quote:
Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully, though vehemently, disagree. But can we please stop throwing around his age as the reason his performance has suffered the past six years. It has been a combination of dreadful scheme, poor offensive personnel and abysmal coaching.

I'm guessing that you're still a young guy if you think that there's no fall off in ability, of everyone, between the ages of 27 and 37.

If Gettleman passes on a QB picking 2nd and a couple of those quarterbacks become stars, it will follow him around for the rest of his career, especially if the Giants take years to find their next quarterback.

Taking a QB is the safest move he can make.

For everyone going around saying that Barkley and Chubb are the best two players in the draft, after the next two seasons have been played how likely is that they everyone will still be saying this?

A couple of influential guys like Kiper and Brandt come out saying that Barkley is the best player available and the others just jump onto the back of the truck. It's easier to go with the crowd that to name the players you really think are the best and risk looking very foolish if you're wrong.


SB 42 And 46 AND 53!!

I have been following the Giants since the late '60s so I must be better at camouflaging my age than Gettleman is camouflaging this year's draft!

Yes, there is some falloff in physical skills, but like Brady, they are minimized in this day and age if the athlete has taken care of himself. And any physical changes are more than offset by the better judgment and decision making that comes from experience, as 40 year old Brady proved this past year. Eli has been injury free and has proven to be as resilient an NFL quarterback as anyone in league history.

The safe bet in this year's draft is taking Barkley or trading the pick if a trade is proffered that exceeds Barkley's value. Based on their grades, these quarterbacks will likely never be the stars you are suggesting they will be. Their grades put them in the Ryan Tannehill, Jay Cutler and Mark Sanchez range. Allen has the ceiling to potentially be Favre, but he could just as easily be Leaf.

Even if one of them is Andrew Luck, which is highly unlikely, how has that worked out for the Colts? They released 36 year old Peyton Manning in 2012 who then proceeded to take the Broncos to a super bowl at age 38 and win a super bowl at age 39. And to this day, Luck has a 59% completion percentage, a 3-3 playoff record and an absolute unclear future will little likelihood of ever winning a super bowl given where he and the Colts are today.

Gettleman and Mara would be crazy not to heed Irsay's mistake of giving up on super bowl winning talent when there is still plenty of gas in Eli's tank...
RE: So you've admittedly been wrong multiple times on this thread so far..  
Thegratefulhead : 4/16/2018 3:05 pm : link
In comment 13916178 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
but I'm the stupid one. Got it.
Yes, you are. Look, anyone who wants to say Eli will be a 37 year old QB next year is correct, the same is true of the people who say he will be a 38 year old QB next year, because we are talking about 2-3 days depending on the official date of regular season ending, or before the start of the post season, so yeah I think it is stupid and no I clearly didn't research because the argument in and of itself is utterly ridiculous, stupid and a childish derail of any reasonable discussion about Eli and unfortunately far too common on BBI anymore.
I'll let you have the last word, but honestly,  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 3:10 pm : link
I think you look pretty foolish on this one.

The number is the number, and Eli will play every remaining regular season on his contract at the age he started that regular season.
Quibbling over..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/16/2018 3:15 pm : link
damn facts!!

Quote:
Look, anyone who wants to say Eli will be a 37 year old QB next year is correct, the same is true of the people who say he will be a 38 year old QB next year, because we are talking about 2-3 days depending on the official date


There have been multiple posters saying Eli will be 38 this year. That is false.

It is absolutely true he will be 38 next year, both literally and figuratively.

But Christ, are you really trying to say it is correct both ways that eli is either 37 or 38? It's like saying fuck and duck are the same - it's just a letter!
Some of you guys don't hold  
joeinpa : 4/16/2018 3:17 pm : link
Eli at all responsible for the failures of the past 6 seasons. It's everyone else's fault. In this league, you have to be able to make plays from an unclean pocket, Eli doesn't do that very well anymore.

I'm all for giving him a chance to bring the Giants back to relevancy, but would feel much better about it knowing the Giants have a Sam Darnold in the wings.

When you speak with such certainty that all these quarterbacks coming out are not worthy of the pick, you lose credibility. Of course there is a chance no matter whom is picked for a bust.

But the same people clamoring to get Eli more weapons, conveniently look the other way at his poor throws, turn overs, and lack of mobility, and yes his age.

Eli's play has slipped, you want to blame that on his surrounding cast, fine. But to not draft a quarterback because you believe Eli will play well for the next 3 seasons is much more risky than drafting any of the top 4 quarterbacks in this draft.


RE: RE: RE: RE: Ok I amend my original post numbers to  
the mike : 4/16/2018 3:22 pm : link
In comment 13916147 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 13916026 the mike said:


Quote:


In comment 13915992 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 13915973 joeinpa said:


Quote:


A 37,38,39 year old quarterback.

Still the point being the same. That s pretty is to be playing at a high level in the NFL unless your name is Tom Brady.



4 of the top 5 passing yardage QB's last year were 36 or older. 37 isn't the death sentence it was even 10 years ago.



Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully, though vehemently, disagree. But can we please stop throwing around his age as the reason his performance has suffered the past six years. It has been a combination of dreadful scheme, poor offensive personnel and abysmal coaching. There has been no massive falloff due to his age - he is the same Eli he has always been. With a good coach and smart scheme, a talented group of "go to" weapons and a reasonably acceptable offensive line, he will have a pro bowl year in 2018...

Disagree, you sort data at Airyards.com that show throwing from a clean pocket only Eli vs the NFL is below league average. Also, his best statistical season in the last 6 years was under McAdoo, this seems to refute the system argument. The clean pocket analysis removes the OL from the equation. Eli was fantastic in 2011 without a running game, so we know he can perform without a running game. Then, there is the overwhelming amount of historical evidence of NFL qBs declining with age that make your claim that "Eli has had no fallout because of age", quite frankly, ridiculous.


First of all, the 2011 team had a balanced attack with two very good running backs, three outstanding receivers and a very capable offensive line, some of whom were veterans of the 2007 super bowl team. The 2017 team had the worst offensive line in Giants history (and that is saying a lot!) and because of injuries, practice squad players at both wide receiver and running back.

Here are Eli's stats in both super bowl years and last year. Despite the absolute abomination of talent, coaching and scheme in 2017, the stats are comparable - some pluses and minuses for obvious reasons, but not a major falloff. Eli was simply not the problem in 2017:

Year/Games/Att/Comp/Comp%/Yds/TD/INT
2007 16/297/529/59%/3336/23/20
2011 16/359/589/61%/4933/29/16
2017 15/352/571/61%/3468/19/13

Sorry, not ridiculous. Just the facts.
RE: Quibbling over..  
Thegratefulhead : 4/16/2018 3:35 pm : link
In comment 13916205 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
damn facts!!



Quote:


Look, anyone who wants to say Eli will be a 37 year old QB next year is correct, the same is true of the people who say he will be a 38 year old QB next year, because we are talking about 2-3 days depending on the official date



There have been multiple posters saying Eli will be 38 this year. That is false.

It is absolutely true he will be 38 next year, both literally and figuratively.

But Christ, are you really trying to say it is correct both ways that eli is either 37 or 38? It's like saying fuck and duck are the same - it's just a letter!
IS there any meaningful age difference between a QB being born December 30th 1980 and one born Jan 3rd 1981? It is a stupid fucking hill to die on and a waste of all of our time and the troll rolls out every time to argue the point when Eli's age is in question.
So now I'm a troll?  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 3:36 pm : link
Okay, dude.
You're right about one thing (the only thing you're right about on the  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 3:36 pm : link
thread)....

It's a stupid hill to die on.
RE: Some of you guys don't hold  
the mike : 4/16/2018 3:37 pm : link
In comment 13916208 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Eli at all responsible for the failures of the past 6 seasons. It's everyone else's fault. In this league, you have to be able to make plays from an unclean pocket, Eli doesn't do that very well anymore.

I'm all for giving him a chance to bring the Giants back to relevancy, but would feel much better about it knowing the Giants have a Sam Darnold in the wings.

When you speak with such certainty that all these quarterbacks coming out are not worthy of the pick, you lose credibility. Of course there is a chance no matter whom is picked for a bust.

But the same people clamoring to get Eli more weapons, conveniently look the other way at his poor throws, turn overs, and lack of mobility, and yes his age.

Eli's play has slipped, you want to blame that on his surrounding cast, fine. But to not draft a quarterback because you believe Eli will play well for the next 3 seasons is much more risky than drafting any of the top 4 quarterbacks in this draft.



Joe, the problem is we are too weak of a team to use the one prime asset in this draft to select someone who will not support this team on the field in 2018. Unfortunately, we are not good enough to hedge our bets...
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/16/2018 3:41 pm : link
that isn't even the distinction being argued:

Quote:
IS there any meaningful age difference between a QB being born December 30th 1980 and one born Jan 3rd 1981?


People act as if Eli is 38 now and keep saying he's a 38 year old guy (or even older). Is it even factually correct to call him 38 if he was born in December?

It's just strange that people keep inflating his age. Not sure why it keeps happening.
All true  
Thegratefulhead : 4/16/2018 3:42 pm : link
Eli will be 38 before the start of the playoffs this season.

Eli will finish the regular season at 37 years old this year.

Eli will be a 37 year old QB this year.

Eli will be a 38 year old QB next year.

Eli 37 and 3/4 years old at the start of this season.

It is all fucking true and all mean nearly the same fucking thing. It is a ridiculous waste of time to nitpick over.

RE: All true  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 3:43 pm : link
In comment 13916245 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
Eli will be 38 before the start of the playoffs this season.

Eli will finish the regular season at 37 years old this year.

Eli will be a 37 year old QB this year.

Eli will be a 38 year old QB next year.

Eli 37 and 3/4 years old at the start of this season.

It is all fucking true and all mean nearly the same fucking thing. It is a ridiculous waste of time to nitpick over.


Then why are you arguing!?
RE: LOL..  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 3:44 pm : link
In comment 13916244 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
that isn't even the distinction being argued:



Quote:


IS there any meaningful age difference between a QB being born December 30th 1980 and one born Jan 3rd 1981?



People act as if Eli is 38 now and keep saying he's a 38 year old guy (or even older). Is it even factually correct to call him 38 if he was born in December?

It's just strange that people keep inflating his age. Not sure why it keeps happening.


Sometimes I feel like I've taken crazy pills when I read this site.
Britt..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/16/2018 3:46 pm : link
we've been on this site for how many years now and outside of the Front Office taking shit for drafting a 67 year old Aaron Ross, I can't remember any player having his age brought up as much, and for some reason - I'm assuming to emphasize his impending geezerhood, Eli is routinely called a year or two older by posters.

And I guess it is OK - because it is close enough!
RE: RE: All true  
Thegratefulhead : 4/16/2018 3:47 pm : link
In comment 13916248 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13916245 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


Eli will be 38 before the start of the playoffs this season.

Eli will finish the regular season at 37 years old this year.

Eli will be a 37 year old QB this year.

Eli will be a 38 year old QB next year.

Eli 37 and 3/4 years old at the start of this season.

It is all fucking true and all mean nearly the same fucking thing. It is a ridiculous waste of time to nitpick over.




Then why are you arguing!?
I'm not, I am saying quibbling over it is stupid. Britt, you nitpick this point often. It is specifically you I am speaking about.
Doesn't matter if Eli is 37 or older really.  
FStubbs : 4/16/2018 3:49 pm : link
He's old enough to where if you see a franchise QB at #2, you take him. Anything else is insanity.
RE: RE: RE: All true  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 3:53 pm : link
In comment 13916263 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 13916248 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 13916245 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


Eli will be 38 before the start of the playoffs this season.

Eli will finish the regular season at 37 years old this year.

Eli will be a 37 year old QB this year.

Eli will be a 38 year old QB next year.

Eli 37 and 3/4 years old at the start of this season.

It is all fucking true and all mean nearly the same fucking thing. It is a ridiculous waste of time to nitpick over.




Then why are you arguing!?

I'm not, I am saying quibbling over it is stupid. Britt, you nitpick this point often. It is specifically you I am speaking about.


No shit. Sorry about that, it's tough being one of the only posters who knows how the age thing works.
Also, his best statistical season in the last 6 years was under McAdoo  
Reb8thVA : 4/16/2018 3:57 pm : link
this seems to refute the system argument.

Um no! It was a hybrid system reflecting more of Coughlin's downfield passing concepts. The last two years of McAdoo's offense looked nothing like his first year as OC. It doesn't pass the eyeball test.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Ok I amend my original post numbers to  
Thegratefulhead : 4/16/2018 4:01 pm : link
In comment 13916212 the mike said:
Quote:
In comment 13916147 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


In comment 13916026 the mike said:


Quote:


In comment 13915992 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 13915973 joeinpa said:


Quote:


A 37,38,39 year old quarterback.

Still the point being the same. That s pretty is to be playing at a high level in the NFL unless your name is Tom Brady.



4 of the top 5 passing yardage QB's last year were 36 or older. 37 isn't the death sentence it was even 10 years ago.



Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully, though vehemently, disagree. But can we please stop throwing around his age as the reason his performance has suffered the past six years. It has been a combination of dreadful scheme, poor offensive personnel and abysmal coaching. There has been no massive falloff due to his age - he is the same Eli he has always been. With a good coach and smart scheme, a talented group of "go to" weapons and a reasonably acceptable offensive line, he will have a pro bowl year in 2018...

Disagree, you sort data at Airyards.com that show throwing from a clean pocket only Eli vs the NFL is below league average. Also, his best statistical season in the last 6 years was under McAdoo, this seems to refute the system argument. The clean pocket analysis removes the OL from the equation. Eli was fantastic in 2011 without a running game, so we know he can perform without a running game. Then, there is the overwhelming amount of historical evidence of NFL qBs declining with age that make your claim that "Eli has had no fallout because of age", quite frankly, ridiculous.



First of all, the 2011 team had a balanced attack with two very good running backs, three outstanding receivers and a very capable offensive line, some of whom were veterans of the 2007 super bowl team. The 2017 team had the worst offensive line in Giants history (and that is saying a lot!) and because of injuries, practice squad players at both wide receiver and running back.

Here are Eli's stats in both super bowl years and last year. Despite the absolute abomination of talent, coaching and scheme in 2017, the stats are comparable - some pluses and minuses for obvious reasons, but not a major falloff. Eli was simply not the problem in 2017:

Year/Games/Att/Comp/Comp%/Yds/TD/INT
2007 16/297/529/59%/3336/23/20
2011 16/359/589/61%/4933/29/16
2017 15/352/571/61%/3468/19/13

Sorry, not ridiculous. Just the facts.
The QB stat with highest correlation to winning is Y/A and Adjusted Y/A You can see the decline easily here https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm You can look at the information form clean pockets only here http://airyards.com/qb.html
RE: RE: RE: Ok I amend my original post numbers to  
Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx : 4/16/2018 4:08 pm : link
In comment 13916026 the mike said:
Quote:
In comment 13915992 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 13915973 joeinpa said:


Quote:


A 37,38,39 year old quarterback.

Still the point being the same. That s pretty is to be playing at a high level in the NFL unless your name is Tom Brady.



4 of the top 5 passing yardage QB's last year were 36 or older. 37 isn't the death sentence it was even 10 years ago.



Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully, though vehemently, disagree. But can we please stop throwing around his age as the reason his performance has suffered the past six years. It has been a combination of dreadful scheme, poor offensive personnel and abysmal coaching. There has been no massive falloff due to his age - he is the same Eli he has always been. With a good coach and smart scheme, a talented group of "go to" weapons and a reasonably acceptable offensive line, he will have a pro bowl year in 2018...


Slight fall off in velo off his ball just like we see with Brady. But their smarts make up for it. We should see a resurgence considering he may have a half decent OL and a significantly better scheme and gameplan under Shurmur/Shula
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Ok I amend my original post numbers to  
the mike : 4/16/2018 4:16 pm : link
In comment 13916282 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 13916212 the mike said:


Quote:


In comment 13916147 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


In comment 13916026 the mike said:


Quote:


In comment 13915992 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 13915973 joeinpa said:


Quote:


A 37,38,39 year old quarterback.

Still the point being the same. That s pretty is to be playing at a high level in the NFL unless your name is Tom Brady.



4 of the top 5 passing yardage QB's last year were 36 or older. 37 isn't the death sentence it was even 10 years ago.



Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully, though vehemently, disagree. But can we please stop throwing around his age as the reason his performance has suffered the past six years. It has been a combination of dreadful scheme, poor offensive personnel and abysmal coaching. There has been no massive falloff due to his age - he is the same Eli he has always been. With a good coach and smart scheme, a talented group of "go to" weapons and a reasonably acceptable offensive line, he will have a pro bowl year in 2018...

Disagree, you sort data at Airyards.com that show throwing from a clean pocket only Eli vs the NFL is below league average. Also, his best statistical season in the last 6 years was under McAdoo, this seems to refute the system argument. The clean pocket analysis removes the OL from the equation. Eli was fantastic in 2011 without a running game, so we know he can perform without a running game. Then, there is the overwhelming amount of historical evidence of NFL qBs declining with age that make your claim that "Eli has had no fallout because of age", quite frankly, ridiculous.



First of all, the 2011 team had a balanced attack with two very good running backs, three outstanding receivers and a very capable offensive line, some of whom were veterans of the 2007 super bowl team. The 2017 team had the worst offensive line in Giants history (and that is saying a lot!) and because of injuries, practice squad players at both wide receiver and running back.

Here are Eli's stats in both super bowl years and last year. Despite the absolute abomination of talent, coaching and scheme in 2017, the stats are comparable - some pluses and minuses for obvious reasons, but not a major falloff. Eli was simply not the problem in 2017:

Year/Games/Att/Comp/Comp%/Yds/TD/INT
2007 16/297/529/59%/3336/23/20
2011 16/359/589/61%/4933/29/16
2017 15/352/571/61%/3468/19/13

Sorry, not ridiculous. Just the facts.

The QB stat with highest correlation to winning is Y/A and Adjusted Y/A You can see the decline easily here https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm You can look at the information form clean pockets only here http://airyards.com/qb.html


Yes but we disagree on where the fault lies - you say age, I say scheme, coaching and lack of supporting talent. Let's just agree to disagree.

Look, Eli Manning has never been and will never be Aaron Rodgers, Dan Marino or Joe Montana. He is a solid quarterback who works well as part of a well balanced offensive attack that works in synch with a relentless defense. It is a formula that has worked twice in the last decade - the only team except the Patriots to have done so, and we beat the Patriots twice!

The answer has always been to support Eli with as much blue chip talent on both sides of the ball and let the machine run - not tinker with need based reach draft picks, coaching changes and a scheme metamorphosis that played to a super bowl winning quarterback's weaknesses!
RE: Some of you guys don't hold  
Section331 : 4/16/2018 4:23 pm : link
In comment 13916208 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Eli at all responsible for the failures of the past 6 seasons. It's everyone else's fault. In this league, you have to be able to make plays from an unclean pocket, Eli doesn't do that very well anymore.

I'm all for giving him a chance to bring the Giants back to relevancy, but would feel much better about it knowing the Giants have a Sam Darnold in the wings.

When you speak with such certainty that all these quarterbacks coming out are not worthy of the pick, you lose credibility. Of course there is a chance no matter whom is picked for a bust.

But the same people clamoring to get Eli more weapons, conveniently look the other way at his poor throws, turn overs, and lack of mobility, and yes his age.

Eli's play has slipped, you want to blame that on his surrounding cast, fine. But to not draft a quarterback because you believe Eli will play well for the next 3 seasons is much more risky than drafting any of the top 4 quarterbacks in this draft.


Nobody, and I mean nobody, is giving Eli a total pass for the offense's failings, and most of us acknowledge that he isn't the same guy who threw the team on his back in 2011, but that doesn't mean he can't still be an effective QB given better weapons and a better scheme.

But to your last point, I completely agree. The Giants are not passing up on drafting a QB because of Eli. If they don't use the #2 pick on a QB, it will be because they do not think any of those available are worth the pick.
Eli will be fine  
GeorgeAdams33 : 4/16/2018 6:32 pm : link
Build the lines on both sides of the ball and hold onto your nuts, McNally
What is this thread even about?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/16/2018 6:48 pm : link
.
RE: It's sort of weird....  
Moondawg : 4/16/2018 6:51 pm : link
In comment 13915838 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Eli's age has to be the most misrepresented number in the history of BBI. It continually happens. You'd think it would be pretty easy.


The draft picks for Shockey.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Ok I amend my original post numbers to  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/16/2018 6:59 pm : link
In comment 13916305 the mike said:
Quote:


The answer has always been to support Eli with as much blue chip talent on both sides of the ball and let the machine run - not tinker with need based reach draft picks, coaching changes and a scheme metamorphosis that played to a super bowl winning quarterback's weaknesses!


The Eli Manning era with the giants can be described in lots of ways, but 'machine' is certainly not one of them. There's only one team in the sport that's been anything close to repetitive, boring success.
Eli's Age is....  
Rafflee : 4/17/2018 7:00 am : link
OLD for an NFL QB.

It's not Heresy or Hatred to note his age and performance and the State of The Team, including Draft Position.

Eli remains at a HOF Level in Prep and Pre-Snap--- in the right situation, I believe He could win a Superbowl as PIECE of a Great Team, similar to what Peyton accomplished with Denver.

Coming off 3-13 and the past 4-6 years, I don't believe The G's will put all their resources "All In with Eli"... if they see an NFL QB at 2, they will pick Him.

RE: Eli's Age is....  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2018 8:33 am : link
In comment 13916987 Rafflee said:
Quote:
OLD for an NFL QB.

It's not Heresy or Hatred to note his age and performance and the State of The Team, including Draft Position.

Eli remains at a HOF Level in Prep and Pre-Snap--- in the right situation, I believe He could win a Superbowl as PIECE of a Great Team, similar to what Peyton accomplished with Denver.

Coming off 3-13 and the past 4-6 years, I don't believe The G's will put all their resources "All In with Eli"... if they see an NFL QB at 2, they will pick Him.


I don't have a problem with anybody thinking Eli is old for a QB, I just ask that his age is represented correctly, not exaggerated to fit the narrative above.

Secondly, Peyton's arm was shot in that Superbowl season. Eli still has a live arm and is much better at this point than Peyton was the year he won the Superbowl in Denver.
It's odd..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/17/2018 8:35 am : link
to emphasize that Eli's age is OLD for a NFL QB when we've seen the top QB's in each league older than he is.
It really is overstated, IMO....  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2018 8:38 am : link
It's like people just have this magic age number in mind, and anything past that is in decline/washed up, despite there being little physical evidence to the contrary.

I've asked it a million times... What exactly is in decline? His arm strength? No, not seeing it (and neither is Gettleman or the coaches). Is he injury prone? No. Is there a mental decline at 37? No, in fact, he's probably mentally as football smart as ever.

What exactly is in decline?
little physical evidence of it, not to the contrary.  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2018 8:39 am : link
And yeah, there are a lot of guys playing at peak levels at this age and beyond.

This isn't like a battered RB. Eli protects himself.
Stats are great in some applications....  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2018 8:41 am : link
but they really have retarded the layman's view of the game. See it over and over.
RE: RE: Why do so many people on BBI insist on adding years to Eli's age?  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/17/2018 8:56 am : link
In comment 13915797 the mike said:
Quote:
In comment 13915702 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


He just turned 37 this past January. He will play next season at 37 years old. He will play the final year of his contract at 38 years old.

The only way you will see Eli play at 39 and 40 for the Giants is if they add an additional 2 years to his current contract, which has two years left.



Exactly!! It is truly bizarre. He will be playing in his 37th and 38th year under his current contract. And if Eli leads the team to a super bowl in either of the next two years, he will then be given a Drew Brees like contract for his 39th and 40th years... These facts do not change because people wish them so.

Actually, he'll be playing in his 38th and 39th years. Your age refers to the number of years you've completed - you're not 1 when you're born.
This is seriously nuts.  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2018 8:59 am : link
.
Wait....  
Brown_Hornet : 4/17/2018 9:05 am : link
...Britt is 50?
Fuck I've been gone a long ass time.

~
RE: It's odd..  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2018 9:08 am : link
In comment 13917031 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
to emphasize that Eli's age is OLD for a NFL QB when we've seen the top QB's in each league older than he is.


This is an oft-stated point, but I don't think it really fits the comparison. Eli Manning isn't Tom Brady or Brett Favre, guys who played into their 40s because they were all-time special. He's not his brother, who came back from major neck surgery to throw a 55 touchdown season and then fell apart and had to be dragged to the finish line with an all-decade type defense.
RE: Wait....  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2018 9:09 am : link
In comment 13917063 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...Britt is 50?
Fuck I've been gone a long ass time.

~


Ha, welcome back. Still in RVA?

Yeah, 42 going on 50 (in Eli years).
RE: RE: It's odd..  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2018 9:11 am : link
In comment 13917067 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13917031 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


to emphasize that Eli's age is OLD for a NFL QB when we've seen the top QB's in each league older than he is.



This is an oft-stated point, but I don't think it really fits the comparison. Eli Manning isn't Tom Brady or Brett Favre, guys who played into their 40s because they were all-time special. He's not his brother, who came back from major neck surgery to throw a 55 touchdown season and then fell apart and had to be dragged to the finish line with an all-decade type defense.


What does being all time special have to do with it? You either physically are capable or you aren't.

Vinny Testeverde played until what? 44?
Indeed...  
Brown_Hornet : 4/17/2018 9:14 am : link
...moved into the hood you once looked at (I think).
I'm down on the Pony Pasture.
I'm not sure I follow...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/17/2018 9:15 am : link
this:

Quote:
This is an oft-stated point, but I don't think it really fits the comparison. Eli Manning isn't Tom Brady or Brett Favre, guys who played into their 40s because they were all-time special.


The point is that eli is called old in the context that he's a far worse QB than he ever was and that he's severely declined because of his age.

Eli Manning seems like Eli Manning. He's physically still able to play and 37 year-old Eli doesn't really seem too different than 34 year old Eli, yet people reference his age as if it is clear he's old and finished.
RE: Indeed...  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2018 9:16 am : link
In comment 13917080 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...moved into the hood you once looked at (I think).
I'm down on the Pony Pasture.


Nice! Love that area. We switched places I think, I moved out of Stratford Hills and now live on what used to be Bellgrade Plantation right off Polo Parkway.

Still playing music?
Yup...  
Brown_Hornet : 4/17/2018 9:31 am : link
...Twisted Ales this past weekend.
Mostly breweries and pubs now.

RE: Yup...  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2018 9:34 am : link
In comment 13917121 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...Twisted Ales this past weekend.
Mostly breweries and pubs now.


Nice, glad to hear it. Since our last interactions (how long have you been gone from here? Seems like awhile), I put together a regularly gigging band in the area as well. Playing Cary St., City Dogs, Canal Club, places like that. We cut a record as well and had it pressed to vinyl. Things have slowed a bit since we all started having kids, but we still get together and practice on the Northside once a week.
Nice...  
Brown_Hornet : 4/17/2018 9:38 am : link
...!


Life is good.
Sorry to the op for millering the thread....  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2018 9:38 am : link
but this discussion is going nowhere, anyways.
RE: Nice...  
Britt in VA : 4/17/2018 9:39 am : link
In comment 13917135 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...!


Life is good.


Indeed it is, glad you are doing well.
Just to be clear  
joeinpa : 4/17/2018 11:02 am : link
I don t believe Eli is done. Just old enough to find a successor.
RE: RE: It's odd..  
Section331 : 4/17/2018 11:19 am : link
In comment 13917067 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:

This is an oft-stated point, but I don't think it really fits the comparison. Eli Manning isn't Tom Brady or Brett Favre, guys who played into their 40s because they were all-time special. He's not his brother, who came back from major neck surgery to throw a 55 touchdown season and then fell apart and had to be dragged to the finish line with an all-decade type defense.


You don't have to point to Tom Brady or Brett Favre. Look at Drew Brees, Phil Rivers and Big Ben. Brees is older, and Rivers and Ben the same age, and each was in the top 5 in passing yardage last year.
RE: RE: RE: It's odd..  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/17/2018 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13917309 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13917067 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:



This is an oft-stated point, but I don't think it really fits the comparison. Eli Manning isn't Tom Brady or Brett Favre, guys who played into their 40s because they were all-time special. He's not his brother, who came back from major neck surgery to throw a 55 touchdown season and then fell apart and had to be dragged to the finish line with an all-decade type defense.



You don't have to point to Tom Brady or Brett Favre. Look at Drew Brees, Phil Rivers and Big Ben. Brees is older, and Rivers and Ben the same age, and each was in the top 5 in passing yardage last year.

Rivers and Roethlisberger are both a year younger than Eli. Same draft class does not equal same age.
RE: RE: RE: It's odd..  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2018 12:57 pm : link
In comment 13917309 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13917067 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:



This is an oft-stated point, but I don't think it really fits the comparison. Eli Manning isn't Tom Brady or Brett Favre, guys who played into their 40s because they were all-time special. He's not his brother, who came back from major neck surgery to throw a 55 touchdown season and then fell apart and had to be dragged to the finish line with an all-decade type defense.



You don't have to point to Tom Brady or Brett Favre. Look at Drew Brees, Phil Rivers and Big Ben. Brees is older, and Rivers and Ben the same age, and each was in the top 5 in passing yardage last year.


Ben has been talking about retirement on and off for the last year and a half, but it helps that he's got two skill position players that are each top 3 at their position extending his career.

And Brees is in the same category as Brady and Favre in terms of best passers of all time. It's true that the greats play longer. They're declining from a much higher place. But then, there's Marino who was done at 38.
Back to the Corner