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Smith: PFT on Gettleman and quarterbacks

joeinpa : 4/16/2018 10:07 am
Under Monday reading Smith made the point that whether Giants go quarterback at #2 will depend in large part upon Gettleman s assessment as to how much mileage Eli has left.

If true that surprises me. Coming off a 3-13 season it is unlikely Giants will be a Super Bowl contender next season. In effect Gettlemen would be banking on contending with a quarterback the two seasons following with a quarterback that will turn 39 and 40 during those seasons.

I have been a big Eli fan, but that seems like big risk if they believe a guy like Darnold can be the next guy.

I ve just believed all along if Giants pass on quarterback it would be because they don't believe he represents the value at #2, not because of how much mileage Eli has left.



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It doesnít matter how much time they think Eli has left,  
Big Blue '56 : 4/16/2018 10:10 am : link
if they donít like the QBs at the top, they will pass. If they do, they will draft one at 2. Little to do with Eli, imo
Two schools of thought here  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 4/16/2018 10:11 am : link
1) Go the GB route with Favre and Rodgers. NOw, Webb could be the answer or it may be a pick this year. I dunno.

2) Eli is an iron man and doesn't miss games unless coach really needs to see Geno. But Eli's performance has been up and down past couple years. Would an improved O-Line and Barkley help? Probably.

For me, Eli is old and getting older and just because Brady continues to be Brady doesn't mean that is the norm. It's not. You're sitting at #2. Likely wont be there again for a long long time. Just hope that DG feels either Webb or one of these QBs is a HOf type player. ;)
56  
joeinpa : 4/16/2018 10:12 am : link
Yea that s what I ve thought all along
or they really  
gmenrule : 4/16/2018 10:14 am : link
like Davis Webb. He is the determining factor in my opinion. If they believe Webb can replace Eli in a year or two, then they are better off served drafting Barkley and having a ridiculous offense going forward. Then Barkley takes the pressure off Webb when he takes the reins from Eli. That would be golden IF it played out that way.
Why do so many people on BBI insist on adding years to Eli's age?  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 10:18 am : link
He just turned 37 this past January. He will play next season at 37 years old. He will play the final year of his contract at 38 years old.

The only way you will see Eli play at 39 and 40 for the Giants is if they add an additional 2 years to his current contract, which has two years left.
RE: or they really  
Justlurking : 4/16/2018 10:18 am : link
In comment 13915695 gmenrule said:
Quote:
like Davis Webb. He is the determining factor in my opinion. If they believe Webb can replace Eli in a year or two, then they are better off served drafting Barkley and having a ridiculous offense going forward. Then Barkley takes the pressure off Webb when he takes the reins from Eli. That would be golden IF it played out that way.


I think Davis Webb has nothing to do with the decision. If you think one of these QBs can be a special player and you dont take them because of Davis Webb, you do not deserve to be anywhere near an NFL front office.
RE: Two schools of thought here  
jvm52106 : 4/16/2018 10:20 am : link
In comment 13915688 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
1) Go the GB route with Favre and Rodgers. NOw, Webb could be the answer or it may be a pick this year. I dunno.

2) Eli is an iron man and doesn't miss games unless coach really needs to see Geno. But Eli's performance has been up and down past couple years. Would an improved O-Line and Barkley help? Probably.

For me, Eli is old and getting older and just because Brady continues to be Brady doesn't mean that is the norm. It's not. You're sitting at #2. Likely wont be there again for a long long time. Just hope that DG feels either Webb or one of these QBs is a HOf type player. ;)


But, the Favre Rodgers scenario was different. GB got Rodgers way down in RD 1 where he was too hard to pass up. We are talking #2 and to be honest the only QB I really think is a winner in the making is Mayfield. Darnold could be a turnover machine and Rosen just seems like a guy who will tease but never deliver. Allen is the wild card who needs to sit a year or two.
It depends on how you interpret the local media narrative  
UberAlias : 4/16/2018 10:20 am : link
The information is out there that the Giants are not going QB and likely comes down to Barkley and Chubb, barring trade back. This is a consistent message we have heard from a few of the more plugged in beats. This is either 1) their intel is reliable and there is transparency here, or 2) the beats are simply delivering the message the team wanted them to and their intentions are to either trade back or they are targeting a QB and gone to lengths to conceal the fact and target.

I'm more inclined to believe the latter -that they have at least one QB they really want. They've learned from mistakes in prior drafts and aren't going to blow this one on account of loose lips.
RE: RE: or they really  
The Dude : 4/16/2018 10:21 am : link
In comment 13915703 Justlurking said:
Quote:
In comment 13915695 gmenrule said:


Quote:


like Davis Webb. He is the determining factor in my opinion. If they believe Webb can replace Eli in a year or two, then they are better off served drafting Barkley and having a ridiculous offense going forward. Then Barkley takes the pressure off Webb when he takes the reins from Eli. That would be golden IF it played out that way.



I think Davis Webb has nothing to do with the decision. If you think one of these QBs can be a special player and you dont take them because of Davis Webb, you do not deserve to be anywhere near an NFL front office.


^^this
Here's how much time Eli has left: two years!  
Milton : 4/16/2018 10:32 am : link
I love the guy and I don't blame him at all for recent failures, but I just don't see that it makes economic sense to give him an extension that will be in the neighborhood of $30M/year (because that's the going rate for franchise QBs and if he's not a franchise QB, why are you giving him an extension?). This is why it makes economic sense to take advantage of having the #2 overall pick by using it on a QB, despite the fact that it could mean he sits for as much as two years.

In an ideal scenario, Eli and the Giants have a good year. But Eli sees the writing on the wall for 2020 and doesn't want to wait to see what happens in 2019 and so asks to be traded to a team that will give him an extension (the Alex Smith trade to the Redskins serves at the blue print). One possible destination could be Jacksonville if Bortles plays poorly in 2018 (the Jags would absorb a sizable cap hit, but in real money it would mean exchanging the $16M that Bortles is due in 2019 for the $17M that Eli is due).

If we are going to wait two years for a QB to develop  
TMS : 4/16/2018 10:42 am : link
then Josh Allen has the biggest upside, He is the biggest, has the strongest arm, highest wonderlic score, biggest hands and can can move around if a play breaks down. His college performance may not be as good as some of the others but theirs are no bargain either. Watching ELI, and learning and being taught by Shurmur and Shula could turn him into another Rethlisberger.
RE: RE: or they really  
AcidTest : 4/16/2018 10:45 am : link
In comment 13915703 Justlurking said:
Quote:
In comment 13915695 gmenrule said:


Quote:


like Davis Webb. He is the determining factor in my opinion. If they believe Webb can replace Eli in a year or two, then they are better off served drafting Barkley and having a ridiculous offense going forward. Then Barkley takes the pressure off Webb when he takes the reins from Eli. That would be golden IF it played out that way.



I think Davis Webb has nothing to do with the decision. If you think one of these QBs can be a special player and you dont take them because of Davis Webb, you do not deserve to be anywhere near an NFL front office.


+1. Absolutely correct. Webb has no influence on what the Giants do at #2. The Giants know next to nothing about Webb, certainly not whether he can succeed Eli. My own view is that no QB, except maybe Darnold, is worth the #2 pick. But I understand why others think otherwise, and do expect the Giants to pick Darnold if the Browns don't.
Britt  
joeinpa : 4/16/2018 10:48 am : link
Eli will turn 38 during next season. If he played two years after that he would be 39/40

That s a fact. And if we re talking passing on quarterback because Eli has years left, I m assuming that means a new contract

RE: Here's how much time Eli has left: two years!  
old man : 4/16/2018 10:48 am : link
In comment 13915722 Milton said:
Quote:
I love the guy and I don't blame him at all for recent failures, but I just don't see that it makes economic sense to give him an extension that will be in the neighborhood of $30M/year (because that's the going rate for franchise QBs and if he's not a franchise QB, why are you giving him an extension?). This is why it makes economic sense to take advantage of having the #2 overall pick by using it on a QB, despite the fact that it could mean he sits for as much as two years.

+1 on Eli has the job the rest of his contract, barring a total loss of skills, or a resurgence due to a better OL which may buy him an extension.


In an ideal scenario, Eli and the Giants have a good year. But Eli sees the writing on the wall for 2020 and doesn't

want to wait to see what happens in 2019 and so asks to be traded to a team that will give him an extension (the Alex Smith trade to the Redskins serves at the blue print). One possible destination could be Jacksonville if Bortles plays poorly in 2018 (the Jags would absorb a sizable cap hit, but in real money it would mean exchanging the $16M that Bortles is due in 2019 for the $17M that Eli is due).
If all things are equal ( and they rarely are),  
TheMick7 : 4/16/2018 10:57 am : link
the Giants have to consider this from a cap prospective. I think if Darnold is there at #2,he's the pick but the other 2,Allen & Rosen,might be the pick as well. QBS/cap are a huge deal in putting together a winning/championship team w/Wentz & Goff prime examples. Eli at $20+ million is a large part of the cap & limits the things we can do moving forward. Now if they truly don't consider any of those 3 worthy of #2, then cap wise the move is either Chubb or trade down. I love Barkley but RB has many options in later rounds so either we address QB,DE or trade w/Broncos (w/Anderson cut they may want Saquon or a QB) where at #5 Chubb,Nelson or Barkley will be.
I don't understand why some folks believe that coaching  
CT Charlie : 4/16/2018 10:59 am : link
can turn a player into a Hall of Famer. Is Michael Jordan the product of good coaching? LeBron? Okay, down the ladder... Ray Allen? Patrick Ewing? Or maybe Roger Staubach? Drew Brees?

Good coaching can make a player good enough to win playoff games, and bad coaching can arguably undermine a player. But to think that any of the 3-5 primo QB's this year are going to be HOF is a stretch, either via ability or coaching. It's possible, but it's wishful thinking.
Don't Think Giants Go QB at #2,  
clatterbuck : 4/16/2018 11:04 am : link
but if they do, I hope it's Rosen they want and Rosen they get.
RE: Why do so many people on BBI insist on adding years to Eli's age?  
the mike : 4/16/2018 11:05 am : link
In comment 13915702 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
He just turned 37 this past January. He will play next season at 37 years old. He will play the final year of his contract at 38 years old.

The only way you will see Eli play at 39 and 40 for the Giants is if they add an additional 2 years to his current contract, which has two years left.


Exactly!! It is truly bizarre. He will be playing in his 37th and 38th year under his current contract. And if Eli leads the team to a super bowl in either of the next two years, he will then be given a Drew Brees like contract for his 39th and 40th years... These facts do not change because people wish them so.
I've seen Eli..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/16/2018 11:05 am : link
already called 38 (even 39) by a couple of posters.

Quote:
Britt
joeinpa : 10:48 am : link : reply
Eli will turn 38 during next season. If he played two years after that he would be 39/40

That s a fact. And if we re talking passing on quarterback because Eli has years left, I m assuming that means a new contract


Eli is 37. He'll play almost the entire year as a 37 year old as he doesn't turn 38 until January.

The next two years, he'd play as a 38 year old and a 39 year old for nearly the entire season, if he continues to play.

I've heard that he's going to be 40, 41 and even 42.

I'm with Britt - it is strange how people keep acting like he's a teenager looking to buy alcohol and keep inflating his age.
CT Charlie  
Big Blue '56 : 4/16/2018 11:07 am : link
Quote:


Good coaching can make a player good enough to win playoff games



Shurmur is the possible huge factor here, possibly with Webb, assuming theyíre meh on the projected top QBs
FMIC  
joeinpa : 4/16/2018 11:19 am : link
I think we both said the same thing. The difference being that to Support my point I slanted the facts, but they are still accurate.

But you are correct. He will play most of next season at the age of 37.
The season will end on Dec 30th,  
Section331 : 4/16/2018 11:24 am : link
Eli's bday is Jan 3rd. So unless we're making the playoffs, Eli will be 37 for the entire season. This is all a ridiculous exercise, but the length some will go to prove their point is absurd.
I hope..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/16/2018 11:24 am : link
he plays in February as a 38 year old:)
It's sort of weird....  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 11:31 am : link
Eli's age has to be the most misrepresented number in the history of BBI. It continually happens. You'd think it would be pretty easy.
And no OP, it's not just your thread.  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 11:31 am : link
.
Gettleman is not a free agent in this decision  
HomerJones45 : 4/16/2018 11:32 am : link
GM Jr. is the important guy here. He's not going to sit there and take another media shitstorm for touching Eli. The question is does he emulate Dad who stuck with YA Tittle until the bitter end or does he emulate the Packers, who he seems to admire, and take the star in waiting like Favre-Rodgers.
Why can't Eli play as long as  
TMS : 4/16/2018 11:33 am : link
Brady. Reese, Rothlisberger, Farve etc. He has had less injuries or lost time than any of them ? It has been his supporting cast that made us and up and down team, not him. These QBs are all unproven and flawed in different ways. Pass on them all. Get us a back into contention sooner rather than later by drafting a Gold jacket player or getting more picks with this opportunity. Not gambling on a QB who will sit for two or more years and may never work out anyway. IMO
RE: I hope..  
the mike : 4/16/2018 11:34 am : link
In comment 13915826 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
he plays in February as a 38 year old:)


Yes indeed. He will be exactly 38 and one month when he is under center in Super Bowl LIII.
56  
INDYJIM : 4/16/2018 11:38 am : link
Is right. It is a matter of if any of the quarterbacks are rated by the giants as being their next long term starter. If not they will look at other positions
RE: Why do so many people on BBI insist on adding years to Eli's age?  
map7711 : 4/16/2018 11:40 am : link
In comment 13915702 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
He just turned 37 this past January. He will play next season at 37 years old. He will play the final year of his contract at 38 years old.

The only way you will see Eli play at 39 and 40 for the Giants is if they add an additional 2 years to his current contract, which has two years left.


Because it fits their narrative. Period. If the Giants pick a QB at two it has nada to do w Eli. Eli and the Giants both know that Eli will be done very soon. Webb has more to do w this draft than Eli does. And even that is not a whole lot -for reasons talked about endlessly here.
If I'm GM and I'm thinking QB  
Motley Two : 4/16/2018 11:41 am : link
I wouldn't factor Manning.
This would be his last season for the Giants.

Haven't we seen enough  
brunswick : 4/16/2018 11:41 am : link
Of Eli to know NOW is the time to draft a QB. Do we really need to watch a couple more years of this ineptitude? It's hard to fathom that there is a very good chance we will see Mr Sloppy behind center for another 2-3 years...
RE: Why do so many people on BBI insist on adding years to Eli's age?  
Thegratefulhead : 4/16/2018 11:47 am : link
In comment 13915702 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
He just turned 37 this past January. He will play next season at 37 years old. He will play the final year of his contract at 38 years old.

The only way you will see Eli play at 39 and 40 for the Giants is if they add an additional 2 years to his current contract, which has two years left.
They realize he will turn 38 BEFORE the end of the regular season. You can state it either way with IMHO and be mostly correct. Neither bothers me and does not require nitpicking.
The regular season ends on December 30th.  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 11:48 am : link
Eli turns 38 on January 3rd.
Britt..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/16/2018 11:49 am : link
close enough. Hell, Eli is almost 40 you realize??
RE: Britt..  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 11:50 am : link
In comment 13915862 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
close enough. Hell, Eli is almost 40 you realize??


Don't I know it, I'm really bummed out because I'm about to turn 50 (I'm 42 currently).
RE: RE: Why do so many people on BBI insist on adding years to Eli's age?  
Section331 : 4/16/2018 11:51 am : link
In comment 13915858 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:

They realize he will turn 38 BEFORE the end of the regular season. You can state it either way with IMHO and be mostly correct. Neither bothers me and does not require nitpicking.


No, he will not. The season ends Dec 30th, Eli doesn't turn 38 until Jan 3rd. I don't know why everyone is so obsessed with the difference between him being 37 years and 361 days v. 38 years, but here we are.
RE: It doesnít matter how much time they think Eli has left,  
Victor in CT : 4/16/2018 11:57 am : link
In comment 13915683 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
if they donít like the QBs at the top, they will pass. If they do, they will draft one at 2. Little to do with Eli, imo


Spot on.
RE: Haven't we seen enough  
TMS : 4/16/2018 12:15 pm : link
In comment 13915853 brunswick said:
Quote:
Of Eli to know NOW is the time to draft a QB. Do we really need to watch a couple more years of this ineptitude? It's hard to fathom that there is a very good chance we will see Mr Sloppy behind center for another 2-3 years...
Nonsense !
RE: RE: I hope..  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 4/16/2018 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13915844 the mike said:
Quote:
In comment 13915826 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


he plays in February as a 38 year old:)



Yes indeed. He will be exactly 38 and one month when he is under center in Super Bowl LIII.


Can his geriatric ass handle another cold ride down in a parade in February? It's so drafty!
RE: Britt..  
Mike from Ohio : 4/16/2018 12:21 pm : link
In comment 13915862 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
close enough. Hell, Eli is almost 40 you realize??
42

At 35, Eli starting aging in dog years. He'll be almost 50 when this season starts. At the end of his current contract, he will be well into his 60s. That's just fact.
I imagine it won't  
Rick5 : 4/16/2018 12:38 pm : link
be an easy decision. If they do like one of the QBs, it seems to me that it would be a much easier call if Eli were a couple of years older or a couple of years younger.
Ok I amend my original post numbers to  
joeinpa : 4/16/2018 12:51 pm : link
A 37,38,39 year old quarterback.

Still the point being the same. That s pretty is to be playing at a high level in the NFL unless your name is Tom Brady.
Screw reaching for any position  
Carl in CT : 4/16/2018 12:55 pm : link
Take the best player at #2 or get out of that spot. Pretty easy.
RE: Ok I amend my original post numbers to  
Section331 : 4/16/2018 1:10 pm : link
In comment 13915973 joeinpa said:
Quote:
A 37,38,39 year old quarterback.

Still the point being the same. That s pretty is to be playing at a high level in the NFL unless your name is Tom Brady.


4 of the top 5 passing yardage QB's last year were 36 or older. 37 isn't the death sentence it was even 10 years ago.
RE: RE: Ok I amend my original post numbers to  
the mike : 4/16/2018 1:29 pm : link
In comment 13915992 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13915973 joeinpa said:


Quote:


A 37,38,39 year old quarterback.

Still the point being the same. That s pretty is to be playing at a high level in the NFL unless your name is Tom Brady.



4 of the top 5 passing yardage QB's last year were 36 or older. 37 isn't the death sentence it was even 10 years ago.


Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully, though vehemently, disagree. But can we please stop throwing around his age as the reason his performance has suffered the past six years. It has been a combination of dreadful scheme, poor offensive personnel and abysmal coaching. There has been no massive falloff due to his age - he is the same Eli he has always been. With a good coach and smart scheme, a talented group of "go to" weapons and a reasonably acceptable offensive line, he will have a pro bowl year in 2018...
Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully,  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 4/16/2018 2:20 pm : link
Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully, though vehemently, disagree. But can we please stop throwing around his age as the reason his performance has suffered the past six years. It has been a combination of dreadful scheme, poor offensive personnel and abysmal coaching.

I'm guessing that you're still a young guy if you think that there's no fall off in ability, of everyone, between the ages of 27 and 37.

If Gettleman passes on a QB picking 2nd and a couple of those quarterbacks become stars, it will follow him around for the rest of his career, especially if the Giants take years to find their next quarterback.

Taking a QB is the safest move he can make.

For everyone going around saying that Barkley and Chubb are the best two players in the draft, after the next two seasons have been played how likely is that they everyone will still be saying this?

A couple of influential guys like Kiper and Brandt come out saying that Barkley is the best player available and the others just jump onto the back of the truck. It's easier to go with the crowd that to name the players you really think are the best and risk looking very foolish if you're wrong.
RE: The regular season ends on December 30th.  
Thegratefulhead : 4/16/2018 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13915860 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Eli turns 38 on January 3rd.
This is a perfect example of the stupid nitpicking done here. Last year, he turned 37 before the regular season ended, this year he will turn 38 before a playoff game is played. Days, quibbling over days. /Sigh
RE: RE: RE: Ok I amend my original post numbers to  
Thegratefulhead : 4/16/2018 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13916026 the mike said:
Quote:
In comment 13915992 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 13915973 joeinpa said:


Quote:


A 37,38,39 year old quarterback.

Still the point being the same. That s pretty is to be playing at a high level in the NFL unless your name is Tom Brady.



4 of the top 5 passing yardage QB's last year were 36 or older. 37 isn't the death sentence it was even 10 years ago.



Exactly. If people don't like Eli, I get it and respectfully, though vehemently, disagree. But can we please stop throwing around his age as the reason his performance has suffered the past six years. It has been a combination of dreadful scheme, poor offensive personnel and abysmal coaching. There has been no massive falloff due to his age - he is the same Eli he has always been. With a good coach and smart scheme, a talented group of "go to" weapons and a reasonably acceptable offensive line, he will have a pro bowl year in 2018...
Disagree, you sort data at Airyards.com that show throwing from a clean pocket only Eli vs the NFL is below league average. Also, his best statistical season in the last 6 years was under McAdoo, this seems to refute the system argument. The clean pocket analysis removes the OL from the equation. Eli was fantastic in 2011 without a running game, so we know he can perform without a running game. Then, there is the overwhelming amount of historical evidence of NFL qBs declining with age that make your claim that "Eli has had no fallout because of age", quite frankly, ridiculous.
RE: RE: The regular season ends on December 30th.  
Britt in VA : 4/16/2018 2:43 pm : link
In comment 13916135 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 13915860 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Eli turns 38 on January 3rd.

This is a perfect example of the stupid nitpicking done here. Last year, he turned 37 before the regular season ended, this year he will turn 38 before a playoff game is played. Days, quibbling over days. /Sigh


Last year the regular season ended on January 1st, Eli turned 37 two days later, on the third.
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