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Why is Darnold considered a much better athlete than Rosen?

Josh in the City : 4/16/2018 3:18 pm
What am I missing? I watched both of these guys in college and while Darnold definitely made more plays with his legs, to me that seemed more by choice than athletic ability. I believe Rosen is better at going through his progression and getting rid of the ball quicker (so less reason to make a play with his legs) but I always thought he was able to move around in the pocket, extend plays, and even scramble once in a while. I'm curious if Darnold was much better at the combine than Rosen or if it's just unsubstantiated opinion/hype.
You need to watch again  
est1986 : 4/16/2018 3:24 pm : link
Rosen doesnít avoid sacks or make plays with his legs anywhere close to what Darnold does
hype.  
Nysportsfn13 : 4/16/2018 3:29 pm : link
Rosen will be the best QB in this class.
You mentioned the combine results  
allstarjim : 4/16/2018 3:31 pm : link
I actually thought Darnold would've performed better than he did, and from an athletic standpoint Rosen and he were close.

40-yard dash:
Darnold - 4.85
Rosen - 4.92

Vert (pretty irrelevant for QBs, but anyway):
Darnold - 26.5"
Rosen - 31"

Broad:
Darnold - 105"
Rosen - 111"

3-Cone:
Darnold - 6.96
Rosen - 7.09

20-yard shuttle
Darnold - 4.40
Rosen - 4.28

So you see they are close. Rosen can jump, and edged him in the 20-yard shuttle. Darnold was a little faster in the 40 and the 3-cone. What matters is what is on tape. Darnold definitely showed a lot more escapability and plays with his legs.
Darnold can run  
RAIN : 4/16/2018 3:33 pm : link
and move outside the pocket. Rosen is better in the pocket.

Darnold does better with clutter around him and can improvise.

Rosen doesn't have the same ability. He's an underrated athlete though with his foot work being part of his athleticism and coordination.

While I will admit Darnold is more  
Chris L. : 4/16/2018 3:34 pm : link
athletic, the narrative is that he is much more athletic and that is simply not the case. On their first run of the 40 yard dash in Indy they each posted a 4.85. Also, if you watch Rosen's film he has a number of impressive plays where he makes plays out of the pocket. The difference between the two athletically is not as drastic as the football heads would lead you to believe.
I thought for sure that Darnold would be faster  
SHO'NUFF : 4/16/2018 3:34 pm : link
than 4.85. Hell, Webb is faster than Darnold.
The numbers are odd with these two.  
Everyone Relax : 4/16/2018 3:35 pm : link
I happen to love Rosen, but if you watch the tape there's no comparison between their escape and scrambling capabilities. Darnold seems to be much shiftier and quicker than his numbers show.

That being said, I would be fine with either. Rosen is smart enough in the pocket to be able to maneuver his way around in order to get a throw off.
inserting Allen  
Pep22 : 4/16/2018 3:41 pm : link
40-yard dash:
Allen: 4.75
Darnold - 4.85
Rosen - 4.92

Vert (pretty irrelevant for QBs, but anyway):
Allen: 33.5
Darnold - 26.5"
Rosen - 31"

Broad:
Allen: 119
Darnold - 105"
Rosen - 111"


3-Cone:
Allen: 6.9
Darnold - 6.96
Rosen - 7.09

20-yard shuttle
Allen 4.4
Darnold - 4.40
Rosen - 4.28

Also significantly bigger, better arm, and if Wunderlic is any indication, smarter.
Interesting  
Josh in the City : 4/16/2018 3:45 pm : link
So it does seem like that notion of Darnold being more athletic has more to do with his style of play rather than physical traits.
RE: I thought for sure that Darnold would be faster  
allstarjim : 4/16/2018 3:46 pm : link
In comment 13916231 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
than 4.85. Hell, Webb is faster than Darnold.


Me too. It's one of those cases where I am wondering if he was feeling tight that day, under the weather, or something was just off. I expected in the 4.7's. I'm not sure I believe that time is an accurate reflection of his ability but if it is I don't think it really hurts him much if at all.
As I said on another thread...  
Milton : 4/16/2018 3:50 pm : link
Darnold's poor numbers compared to expectations is an indication to me of a guy who didn't put in enough time preparing for the events. And there were reports that he wasn't as "advanced" on the whiteboard as hoped/expected. I'm not saying conclusively that he has a less than ideal work ethic, but I have questions about it. It's up to Gettleman to know the answers, not me.
Those measurements tell part of the story  
Mike from Ohio : 4/16/2018 3:59 pm : link
but not all of it. Like running backs and wide receivers with similar measurables, their on-field play, instincts and reads may be much different. I have not spent enough time looking at film of both to say Darnold is a better runner/playmaker out of the pocket, but I do know that answer will not come exclusively from combine numbers.
Christian propaganda  
MOOPS : 4/16/2018 4:02 pm : link
.
People forget that Darnold only transitioned to QB  
gmen9892 : 4/16/2018 4:05 pm : link
Halfway through highschool. Prior to that, he was a LB. You can still see the toughness and willingness to get out and run in this game as a QB. I believe that stems from the attitude of a linebacker, where as Rosen is a pocket-passing QB all the way.

Watching them both play, Darnold will not think twice about running if he see an opportunity (very much like Andrew Luck), whereas Rosen will run out of pure necessity (very much like Eli). That is not to knock one or the other, simply an observation on two different styles of play.
You should also consider  
redwhiteandbigblue : 4/16/2018 6:01 pm : link
that the talent level of the defenses that Darnold faced last year was far superior to Rosen and actually superior to both Allen and Mayfield as well. He had to be quicker in both his footwork and progressions as a result. Darnold actually seemed to be better when under pressure and forced out of the pocket. Some of the throws he made were ridiculous.
It's more about processing and anticipating what you see  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 4/16/2018 6:09 pm : link
than about raw numbers. Lots of guys can put up good numbers and throw the heck out of the ball. Very few of them become good NFL QBs.
I don't really get your point.  
barens : 4/16/2018 6:51 pm : link
Eli is known as a great athlete, but no one really wants to see him scramble, or throw on the run.

Some QB's just have a better knack for that.
RE: You should also consider  
GiantGrit : 4/16/2018 6:52 pm : link
In comment 13916440 redwhiteandbigblue said:
Quote:
that the talent level of the defenses that Darnold faced last year was far superior to Rosen and actually superior to both Allen and Mayfield as well. He had to be quicker in both his footwork and progressions as a result. Darnold actually seemed to be better when under pressure and forced out of the pocket. Some of the throws he made were ridiculous.


Mayfield played Georgia and Ohio State (like Darnold) but played them in the Horseshoe.
Josh  
ThatLimerickGuy : 4/16/2018 6:59 pm : link
Because he is a way better athlete.

Why do you love Rosen so much?
While their combine numbers are similar, Darnold appears  
Ira : 4/16/2018 7:02 pm : link
more mobile on the field than Rosen. Rosen isn't looking to move as much and completes a lot of passes by staying in the pocket and throwing the ball just before taking a hit.
RE: Christian propaganda  
markky : 4/16/2018 7:08 pm : link
In comment 13916286 MOOPS said:
Quote:
.


Lol
Rosen is a tennis player also  
NikkiMac : 4/16/2018 7:10 pm : link
Iím sure he can move around quite well.......
Rosen actually has great feet  
David B. : 4/16/2018 7:44 pm : link
from playing tennis. He moves GREAT withIN the pocket. But he doesn't improvise like Darnold.

It's like comparing Favre's skill set to Aikman's. Or Marino's to Elway's. Not saying either guy rookie become these guys, but that's who their respective games are like.

And the people who like Darnold better are the ones who like a guy who can make stuff happen outside the pocket when the play breaks down.
Rosen can t be a very good tennis  
joeinpa : 4/16/2018 7:52 pm : link
Player, which Rosen was, without being a good athlete.

They are both good athletes
RE: Rosen actually has great feet  
GFAN52 : 4/16/2018 7:55 pm : link
In comment 13916586 David B. said:
Quote:
from playing tennis. He moves GREAT withIN the pocket. But he doesn't improvise like Darnold.

It's like comparing Favre's skill set to Aikman's. Or Marino's to Elway's. Not saying either guy rookie become these guys, but that's who their respective games are like.

And the people who like Darnold better are the ones who like a guy who can make stuff happen outside the pocket when the play breaks down.


^^^^
Well said.
What did Eli run?  
SHO'NUFF : 4/16/2018 9:31 pm : link
About a 4.9 right?
They're QBs...  
Brown_Hornet : 4/17/2018 9:11 am : link
...what they see and how quickly they react to it is what separates them.
Not feats of strength...
RE: What did Eli run?  
Milton : 4/17/2018 10:35 am : link
In comment 13916741 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
About a 4.9 right?
Eli never ran the 40.
Darnold did not test as well as expected  
JonC : 4/17/2018 10:41 am : link
I don't know if it's case of being unprepared or just a lesser pure athlete than expected, but it narrowed the gap between prospects in that sense. These are legit questions, for certain.

As others said though, Darnold is able to improvise, climb up in the pocket, and escape the pocket to buy time and make plays. He can also make pinpoint throws on the run.
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