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NFT: Nationals at Mets Game 1. DeGrominator

ZGiants98 : 4/16/2018 4:03 pm
Mets Lineup

Brandon Nimmo (L) RF
Asdrubal Cabrera (S) 2B
Michael Conforto (L) LF
Todd Frazier (R) 3B
Adrian Gonzalez (L) 1B
Juan Lagares (R) CF
Jose Lobaton (S) C
Jacob deGrom (L) P
Amed Rosario (R) SS


More injuries. Bruce out with Plantar Fasciitis. DeGrom is going to be on point today with Ces also our. LGM! Set the tone!
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Jake cruising along  
Stufftherun : 4/16/2018 10:30 pm : link
everyone having a good time, and boom, the roof falls in. Itís obviously very early in the season but let this be a wake up call of sorts.
Definitely a lot of pressure on Wheeler  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2018 10:31 pm : link
to pitch a good game tomorrow.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/16/2018 10:32 pm : link
Holy shit. WHY IS HE RUNNING
I think he's actually safe  
Eric on Li : 4/16/2018 10:33 pm : link
but that was a pretty stupid decision.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/16/2018 10:33 pm : link
They're not going to overturn this. He's out.
What the fuck was  
Stufftherun : 4/16/2018 10:33 pm : link
he thinking?! He should just plant his ass on 2nd base until a ball leaves the infield or the game ends!
That couldíve gone the Mets way, but itís not to be tonight.  
PhiPsi125 : 4/16/2018 10:34 pm : link
Sigh...
Win the next two and itís all good  
Vanzetti : 4/16/2018 10:35 pm : link
We all know Familia is called Benitez 2 for a reason. . Now Mickey knows too. He is a rookie manager and did a bad job tonight. The key is to not let it snowball. Win tomorrow and this is just a blip
.  
arcarsenal : 4/16/2018 10:36 pm : link
The Benitez 2 stuff is fucking stupid. The guy has been virtually perfect all year. He shouldn't even have needed to pitch tonight.

Everyone in the pen failed.
RE: Win the next two and itís all good  
PhiPsi125 : 4/16/2018 10:37 pm : link
In comment 13916888 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
We all know Familia is called Benitez 2 for a reason. . Now Mickey knows too. He is a rookie manager and did a bad job tonight. The key is to not let it snowball. Win tomorrow and this is just a blip


Any one of those pitchers couldíve thrown a single strike and it would have been a good job by Mickey. Literally any of them.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/16/2018 10:37 pm : link
I have a feeling we're going to get swept now, though. This is the type of loss that completely turns the tides. Just horrible.
Agree  
Canton : 4/16/2018 10:40 pm : link
This win will be the turning point for the Nats to go off on a run.
RE: .  
spike : 4/16/2018 10:41 pm : link
In comment 13916894 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I have a feeling we're going to get swept now, though. This is the type of loss that completely turns the tides. Just horrible.


Absolutely. This is a momentum changing win for them and loss for us.

Wheeler and Matz dont give me confidence
RE: .  
Eric on Li : 4/16/2018 10:42 pm : link
In comment 13916894 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I have a feeling we're going to get swept now, though. This is the type of loss that completely turns the tides. Just horrible.


We'll see it's a good bounce back test. Also a good test for Wheeler. I think the BP just put it on cruise control and will hopefully learn a big lesson. If you have to go down this way it's better that it was literally all of them blowing it vs. 1 guy getting his confidence shot.
RE: .  
Vanzetti : 4/16/2018 10:42 pm : link
In comment 13916889 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The Benitez 2 stuff is fucking stupid. The guy has been virtually perfect all year. He shouldn't even have needed to pitch tonight.

Everyone in the pen failed.


Familia is exactly like Benitez. Armando often had stretches of utter dominance. But he lost his command in big spots. Just like Familia. I canít think of two players more like each other. Benitez had absolutely great stuff and most of the time he was quite good. But he lost the plate in crucial situations. Again exactly like Familia. Their repertoire is even similar
Every single player failed in the bullpen but I just  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2018 10:48 pm : link
Cant get over Lugo not being able to throw one damn strike to Kendrick. Wow. Awful.

I cant wipe this game from the memory bank fast enough. Shades of San Diego 2015.
RE: RE: Win the next two and itís all good  
Vanzetti : 4/16/2018 10:49 pm : link
In comment 13916892 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13916888 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


We all know Familia is called Benitez 2 for a reason. . Now Mickey knows too. He is a rookie manager and did a bad job tonight. The key is to not let it snowball. Win tomorrow and this is just a blip



Any one of those pitchers couldíve thrown a single strike and it would have been a good job by Mickey. Literally any of them.


Bullpen definitely gets 99% of the blame but Mickey also got too cute. Like I said, rookie mistake. It just sucks because bullpens tend to be very temperamental. They feed off success but also often struggle after a game like this. Thatís why tomorrow is key
Momentum in baseball  
Metnut : 4/16/2018 10:50 pm : link
is only worth as much as your starting pitcher the next day.

Brutal loss tonight. Pen let us down. Theyíve picked us up a bunch too and thatís why the team is 12-3. Canít let this turn into a slump that undoes our start. Get after these bastards tomorrow. LGM.
Benitez threw meatballs the second there was an ounce of pressure  
Eric on Li : 4/16/2018 10:52 pm : link
they are totally different. Nobodies going to be perfect - especially a guy like Familia whose control is always a little on the edge. The ground ball single he gave up was a lot less egregious than walking the guy in front of Harper with a 5 run lead or Matt freaking Reynolds with the bases loaded.
RE: Every single player failed in the bullpen but I just  
Vanzetti : 4/16/2018 10:52 pm : link
In comment 13916908 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Cant get over Lugo not being able to throw one damn strike to Kendrick. Wow. Awful.

I cant wipe this game from the memory bank fast enough. Shades of San Diego 2015.


Lugo has struggled a bit lately. Plus he is s concerted starter. Also relies on the curve, which can be hard to throw for a strike when itís cold and you do t have a feel for the ball
.  
arcarsenal : 4/16/2018 10:53 pm : link
Benitez became known for blowing saves in crucial spots. When you think about Benitez' career, everyone thinks meltdowns and blown saves.

I don't think it's really fair to pin that on Familia every single time he isn't perfect.

Guy had a 0.00 ERA, 0.800 WHIP, 1.66 FIP and led all of baseball in saves. Then he comes into a game in the 8th where he probably never thought he was going to have to pitch, doesn't have his best stuff, and I have to read this Benitez bullshit again.

It's silly. It's obviously meant to be disparaging. Familia has been ridiculously good this far. One misstep in an 8th inning was all it took for the nonsense to start up again.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/16/2018 10:54 pm : link
If one of the 50 relievers that pitched before him could just get one out, it's a completely different game.
RE: RE: Every single player failed in the bullpen but I just  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2018 10:54 pm : link
In comment 13916914 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 13916908 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Cant get over Lugo not being able to throw one damn strike to Kendrick. Wow. Awful.

I cant wipe this game from the memory bank fast enough. Shades of San Diego 2015.



Lugo has struggled a bit lately. Plus he is s concerted starter. Also relies on the curve, which can be hard to throw for a strike when itís cold and you do t have a feel for the ball


He also has a 4 seam 95 mph fastball. No excuse for that but whatever. Everyone imploded tonight.
Not sure why Callaway should get blame  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2018 10:56 pm : link
Its a 6-1 game.. 8th inning... deGrom is over a 100 pitches.. give up a hit.. You have the ML-leading best bullpen at your disposal... What was he supposed to do? He expected 5 relievers not to do their job?

The smartest move was going to Robles in the 9th even though it was still close. Now Familia can pitch tomorrow.
yea I don't have a problem with anything Callaway did  
Eric on Li : 4/16/2018 11:00 pm : link
the only option he really had was not putting in Lugo. Knowing Harper was on deck he only had 1 batter. Maybe not the best spot for a guy new to the BP. Also maybe a test. Could have let Blevins take a shot at Kendrick or just kept JDG in for 1 more guy. Just one of those games.
RE: Not sure why Callaway should get blame  
Vanzetti : 4/16/2018 11:02 pm : link
In comment 13916920 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Its a 6-1 game.. 8th inning... deGrom is over a 100 pitches.. give up a hit.. You have the ML-leading best bullpen at your disposal... What was he supposed to do? He expected 5 relievers not to do their job?

The smartest move was going to Robles in the 9th even though it was still close. Now Familia can pitch tomorrow.


Like I said, bullpen gets 99% of blame but Mickey was a contributing factor. But it is pointless to rehash it. People are gonna see it the wAy they are going to see it . Big thing is to win tomorrow . And in that spirit, this is my
Last post tonight. Everybody take s shot of Jamesons and We will all be here tomorrow, hopefully to watch Wheeler dominate
RE: .  
Vanzetti : 4/16/2018 11:11 pm : link
In comment 13916915 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Benitez became known for blowing saves in crucial spots. When you think about Benitez' career, everyone thinks meltdowns and blown saves.

I don't think it's really fair to pin that on Familia every single time he isn't perfect.

Guy had a 0.00 ERA, 0.800 WHIP, 1.66 FIP and led all of baseball in saves. Then he comes into a game in the 8th where he probably never thought he was going to have to pitch, doesn't have his best stuff, and I have to read this Benitez bullshit again.

It's silly. It's obviously meant to be disparaging. Familia has been ridiculously good this far. One misstep in an 8th inning was all it took for the nonsense to start up again.


I think maybe we have a different view of Benitez. I look at him as a guy who could dominate but had command issues, which led to big blown saves and then it became a psychological issue. So when I call Familia Venitez 2, it is more that I worry about him going down that road. Look
At 2015: Familia dominated in first two postseason series and then
Blew three saves in WS. To me that is Benitez like, both dominating and blowing it.
If you want to say Familia can blow big games like Beneitez  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2018 11:15 pm : link
did.. that's one thing... But what really irks me is the "Familia is a mess when the pressure" is on... stuff. Every single save opportunity is a high-stress situation. It's almost always in a close game. 99% of the time he's fine. He's not always a mess or an implosion when the pressure is on.

We've seen Familia come in and save our ass and get 5 outs many times. At least be fair.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 4/16/2018 11:35 pm : link
In comment 13916931 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 13916915 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Benitez became known for blowing saves in crucial spots. When you think about Benitez' career, everyone thinks meltdowns and blown saves.

I don't think it's really fair to pin that on Familia every single time he isn't perfect.

Guy had a 0.00 ERA, 0.800 WHIP, 1.66 FIP and led all of baseball in saves. Then he comes into a game in the 8th where he probably never thought he was going to have to pitch, doesn't have his best stuff, and I have to read this Benitez bullshit again.

It's silly. It's obviously meant to be disparaging. Familia has been ridiculously good this far. One misstep in an 8th inning was all it took for the nonsense to start up again.



I think maybe we have a different view of Benitez. I look at him as a guy who could dominate but had command issues, which led to big blown saves and then it became a psychological issue. So when I call Familia Venitez 2, it is more that I worry about him going down that road. Look
At 2015: Familia dominated in first two postseason series and then
Blew three saves in WS. To me that is Benitez like, both dominating and blowing it.


The saves blown in the WS need context.

Quick pitching Alex Gordon in Game 1 was his fault - but he came into messes the other two times. I'm fairly certain an inherited runner scored on a ball in play where out(s) were recorded and he still got pegged with a blown save for that.

There's a lot of revisionist history about his WS performance which really wasn't nearly as bad as it's made out to be.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/16/2018 11:38 pm : link
I guess I'm just looking for closers in this league who don't blow saves once in a while or don't have meltdowns.

As far as I know, basically every single closer in this league is susceptible to a poor outing once in a while.

Callaway said what I think most people were thinking during his presser.

When guys in a bullpen see a guy locked in like deGrom was today, most of them probably thought they were getting the night off. It's not an excuse - but I think that's what happened. Then when each of them couldn't get an out, we had to get the next one up and it just kept piling up.

It is what it is.

We'll see what this team is made of tomorrow.
Im still weirdly confident in Wheeler tomorrow  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2018 11:58 pm : link
I feel like he's locked in. I hope I dont regret saying that. Im more worried about the bats repeating this performance with Cespedes and others still cold but we'll see. Frazier and Cabrera have been hot. So that's good.
The only reason I am confident about Wheeler  
Rob in Rockaway : 4/17/2018 12:19 am : link
is that he changed his windup from that overhead hand break to a simpler delivery. Praying that's the change needed.
God this was such  
CMicks3110 : 4/17/2018 7:39 am : link
a brutal loss
RE: RE: RE: .  
twostepgiants : 4/17/2018 7:50 am : link
In comment 13916947 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13916931 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


In comment 13916915 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Benitez became known for blowing saves in crucial spots. When you think about Benitez' career, everyone thinks meltdowns and blown saves.

I don't think it's really fair to pin that on Familia every single time he isn't perfect.

Guy had a 0.00 ERA, 0.800 WHIP, 1.66 FIP and led all of baseball in saves. Then he comes into a game in the 8th where he probably never thought he was going to have to pitch, doesn't have his best stuff, and I have to read this Benitez bullshit again.

It's silly. It's obviously meant to be disparaging. Familia has been ridiculously good this far. One misstep in an 8th inning was all it took for the nonsense to start up again.



I think maybe we have a different view of Benitez. I look at him as a guy who could dominate but had command issues, which led to big blown saves and then it became a psychological issue. So when I call Familia Venitez 2, it is more that I worry about him going down that road. Look
At 2015: Familia dominated in first two postseason series and then
Blew three saves in WS. To me that is Benitez like, both dominating and blowing it.



The saves blown in the WS need context.

Quick pitching Alex Gordon in Game 1 was his fault - but he came into messes the other two times. I'm fairly certain an inherited runner scored on a ball in play where out(s) were recorded and he still got pegged with a blown save for that.

There's a lot of revisionist history about his WS performance which really wasn't nearly as bad as it's made out to be.


How about his performance in the Wild Card game?
RE: Agree  
gmenatlarge : 4/17/2018 8:28 am : link
In comment 13916897 Canton said:
Quote:
This win will be the turning point for the Nats to go off on a run.


Unfortunately must agree, could definitely see this as a loss that will be looked back on as the turning point.
Holy santa clause shit , well that effin sucked but  
Rory : 4/17/2018 9:17 am : link
honestly the Mets were due for a game like this. An I think Callaway needed it to validate the team to stay focused.

also can we not kill our manager every time something doesn't work out...(ahem Vanzetti)....., and I might be off a bit but I feel that outside of Lugo none of Ramos/Blevins/Familia were ready to pitch that 8th inning hence control issues.

Wheeler knows this is a huge start for him. I still recall what he said back during the 2015 trade deadline on how he wants to be here and part of something special. You gotta assume he knows this will be his chance to justify staying in the rotation and being that something special.

LGM
Got to put last night behind them  
figgy2989 : 4/17/2018 9:24 am : link
Hopefully this isnít one of those loses that turns into a downward spiral.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
Eric on Li : 4/17/2018 9:33 am : link
In comment 13917005 twostepgiants said:
Quote:


How about his performance in the Wild Card game?


A guy who never hits homers caught one. Matt Franco hit a home run against Mariano Rivera once too. You know how many home runs Familia gave up in all of 2016 before that? 1.

The WS context point about Familia is a good one. Yes he got tagged by Gordon on a stupid quick pitch, but he bounced back and pitched well the rest of that series (after dominating in the 2 series before the WS). He did what he had to do to get his team out of 2 big jams but he got "blown saves" because the fielders behind him imploded.

To me, there are 2 key differences between Benitez and Familia. First when things went bad on Benitez he NEVER bounced back - it only got worse. He was a bully on the mound and when someone got him he collapsed. Familia on the other hand has bounced back a lot. He's not always perfectly clean, but he competes and has as good of stuff as just about any closer except Mariano. Second, Benitez gave up about twice as many home runs as Familia. As a Met for 4.5 seasons Benitez gave up 39 homers. Familia has given up just 13 homers since becoming a big piece of the BP in 2014.

There is a very small list of guys we'd rather have than Familia.
RE: Agree  
Eric on Li : 4/17/2018 9:38 am : link
In comment 13916897 Canton said:
Quote:
This win will be the turning point for the Nats to go off on a run.


Eh this game will be what either of these 2 teams make it. The home run and loss to SD in the rain in 2015 seemed like a deathblow at the time, not a footnote to a world series run. The Nats didn't do much to win last night, they basically got out of the way as the BP walked half their lineup. I think the only hits they had were a few singles (in the 8th).

Great teams need to find ways to bounce back after things go against them. This season a lot has been going right, last night was the first time the ground balls were hit to places our fielders weren't when it mattered. That will happen sometimes, the lesson has to be that you can't make that worse by walking the ballpark.
Last night was just one of those times in sports  
Chris684 : 4/17/2018 9:46 am : link
when one of these damn games keeps you up at night.

6-1, stepping on the throats of the Nats, adding to a commanding lead in the division, and a nice tidy stat line for deGrom on top of that.

In 2 innings the bullpen took a dump on all of that. These next 2 games are very important. The Nats can make up for last week with a series win/sweep. I didnt think the Mets would sweep this time around, but 2 out of 3 will go a long way.

Any Knicks fans out there, this Mets game felt like the Knicks-Cleveland game earlier this year where Frank stood up to LeBron, Knicks were rolling until the 4th quarter. Cavs went on a nice little streak after that. Hopefully Nats don't do the same.
I was at this disaster last night.  
Section331 : 4/17/2018 9:50 am : link
Lugo really screwed the pooch, IMO. Bryce Harper on deck and you throw a 4-pitch walk?

We'll get an idea of what Mickey is made of. This is a veteran team, I don't think this loss is going to cause a meltdown. A win tonight will calm a lot of nerves.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
Rory : 4/17/2018 10:03 am : link
In comment 13917126 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13917005 twostepgiants said:


Quote:




How about his performance in the Wild Card game?



A guy who never hits homers caught one. Matt Franco hit a home run against Mariano Rivera once too. You know how many home runs Familia gave up in all of 2016 before that? 1.

The WS context point about Familia is a good one. Yes he got tagged by Gordon on a stupid quick pitch, but he bounced back and pitched well the rest of that series (after dominating in the 2 series before the WS). He did what he had to do to get his team out of 2 big jams but he got "blown saves" because the fielders behind him imploded.

To me, there are 2 key differences between Benitez and Familia. First when things went bad on Benitez he NEVER bounced back - it only got worse. He was a bully on the mound and when someone got him he collapsed. Familia on the other hand has bounced back a lot. He's not always perfectly clean, but he competes and has as good of stuff as just about any closer except Mariano. Second, Benitez gave up about twice as many home runs as Familia. As a Met for 4.5 seasons Benitez gave up 39 homers. Familia has given up just 13 homers since becoming a big piece of the BP in 2014.

There is a very small list of guys we'd rather have than Familia.
Twostep, look around the league not many closers doing well right now Familia has been exceptional. Or do you want to go back to the K-Rod days?
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 4/17/2018 10:15 am : link
In comment 13917005 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
In comment 13916947 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 13916931 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


In comment 13916915 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Benitez became known for blowing saves in crucial spots. When you think about Benitez' career, everyone thinks meltdowns and blown saves.

I don't think it's really fair to pin that on Familia every single time he isn't perfect.

Guy had a 0.00 ERA, 0.800 WHIP, 1.66 FIP and led all of baseball in saves. Then he comes into a game in the 8th where he probably never thought he was going to have to pitch, doesn't have his best stuff, and I have to read this Benitez bullshit again.

It's silly. It's obviously meant to be disparaging. Familia has been ridiculously good this far. One misstep in an 8th inning was all it took for the nonsense to start up again.



I think maybe we have a different view of Benitez. I look at him as a guy who could dominate but had command issues, which led to big blown saves and then it became a psychological issue. So when I call Familia Venitez 2, it is more that I worry about him going down that road. Look
At 2015: Familia dominated in first two postseason series and then
Blew three saves in WS. To me that is Benitez like, both dominating and blowing it.



The saves blown in the WS need context.

Quick pitching Alex Gordon in Game 1 was his fault - but he came into messes the other two times. I'm fairly certain an inherited runner scored on a ball in play where out(s) were recorded and he still got pegged with a blown save for that.

There's a lot of revisionist history about his WS performance which really wasn't nearly as bad as it's made out to be.



How about his performance in the Wild Card game?


How about his performances in the postseason against the Dodgers and Cubs?
.  
arcarsenal : 4/17/2018 10:19 am : link
Last night's loss is still bothering me. Tonight is really important. I hope Wheeler has it. He's been dreadful at Citi Field recently. 9+ ERA.
Last night's loss was so horrific  
Chris684 : 4/17/2018 10:22 am : link
that as a Mets/Devils fan, the Devils outcome was far more important but I'm still annoyed today.

Holy overreaction, Batman  
PhiPsi125 : 4/17/2018 10:59 am : link
Yes, last night's game sucked. And it sucked more because it should have been a win. Everyone already had the Mets in the win column by the sixth inning. That's why it stings more. But all this talk about a downward spiral is dumb. It's one game. The Mets are 12-3 right now, lol. We weren't going to win 130 games.

The Met's have been the recipient of a lot of good fortune in this early season. Last night, the shoe was on the other foot. And mostly self-inflicted. Washington is still a damn good team. Hopefully they learn from this and grow. If not, then maybe this team and new manager aren't as good as we thought. Personally, I don't believe that to be the case. I hope they enter tonight's game pissed off. And someone other than Frazier and Cabrera need to start hitting the damn ball.

Sack up, f*ckers.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/17/2018 11:09 am : link
I can deal with a loss - I don't expect perfection.

Here's why it bothers me so much, though...

1. deGrom vs Hellickson - this alone tells you we should win this game. If I told you deGrom would get into the 8th inning having only allowed 1 run and would exit with a 5 run lead, no one ever would have believed that we'd lose.
2. No Rendon, no Murphy - light lineup for them. Won't be that way all year. Turner hasn't really gotten going yet, either.
3. Not one fucking reliever could get the job done. One guy is off his game... I can accept that. Even two. But to go from deGrom to Lugo to Blevins to Ramos to Familia and have every single guy struggle to just throw fucking strikes to turds like Sierra and Difo is infuriating.

I'm still livid. This team needs to win tonight.
the 2 things that bug me are the Lugo walk and wasting JDG's night  
Eric on Li : 4/17/2018 11:30 am : link
If you are Lugo entering the game there, the only thing you can't do is what he did. Literally, anything else would have been a better outcome - including giving up a homerun. At least at that point it's clean on the bases for someone to come in and not have pitch so carefully to Harper.
RE: Holy overreaction, Batman  
Rory : 4/17/2018 11:33 am : link
In comment 13917267 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
Yes, last night's game sucked. And it sucked more because it should have been a win. Everyone already had the Mets in the win column by the sixth inning. That's why it stings more. But all this talk about a downward spiral is dumb. It's one game. The Mets are 12-3 right now, lol. We weren't going to win 130 games.

The Met's have been the recipient of a lot of good fortune in this early season. Last night, the shoe was on the other foot. And mostly self-inflicted. Washington is still a damn good team. Hopefully they learn from this and grow. If not, then maybe this team and new manager aren't as good as we thought. Personally, I don't believe that to be the case. I hope they enter tonight's game pissed off. And someone other than Frazier and Cabrera need to start hitting the damn ball.

Sack up, f*ckers.


well fuck, I like this side of you
Going to the game tonight  
jpkmets : 4/17/2018 12:57 pm : link
can't wait. That was a brutal loss. But this team kicks ass and comes back from adversity.

Make em pay tonight!!!!
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