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NGT: Seattle another example of the chase for consistency

Ten Ton Hammer : 4/16/2018 8:55 pm
It wasn't that long ago that Seattle was the latest hot 'prototype' for building a winner and John Schneider was the guy you wanted to lure to run your team. That franchise is unraveling thread by thread.


@RapSheet
The #Seahawks have not yet cleared 2017 2nd round pick DT Malik McDowell, and source said they are expected to release him in the near future. The hope is that another team will medically clear him.

Seahawks first draft picks last six years: Malik McDowell, Germain Ifedi, Frank Clark, Paul Richardson, Christine Michael, Bruce Irvin, James Carpenter


In addition, since making the Max Unger/Jimmy Graham trade, their offensive line has been an atrocity that's actually been empirically worse than the Giants' line has been.


Too Long; Didn't Read version:

Consistent winning still incredibly difficult even for teams you think "get it". Even well run teams can't figure this out. Patriots still an impossible exception to everything and also possibly using dark magic.




Teams that draft well win  
WillVAB : 4/16/2018 9:15 pm : link
Itís as simple as that. Look at the hot teams right now around the league. The common denominator is good drafting, and not just hitting on first/second rounders.
RE: Teams that draft well win  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/16/2018 9:22 pm : link
In comment 13916706 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Itís as simple as that. Look at the hot teams right now around the league. The common denominator is good drafting, and not just hitting on first/second rounders.


New England misses on a ton picks. They just typically have more so they can afford the error.
NE has Brady and Little Bill  
Dave on the UWS : 4/16/2018 9:37 pm : link
They mask a LOT of dysfunction in the organization.
RE: RE: Teams that draft well win  
Essex : 4/16/2018 10:14 pm : link
In comment 13916717 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13916706 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Itís as simple as that. Look at the hot teams right now around the league. The common denominator is good drafting, and not just hitting on first/second rounders.



New England misses on a ton picks. They just typically have more so they can afford the error.


The Eagles drafted Wentz, I guess but Nick Foles won the Super Bowl. Alshon Jeffeey not drafted, Torrey Smith not drafted, Blount or Ajaye not drafted. On defense I am not sure they drafted a guy outside their front four. Their Oline 3/5 Guys not drafted. No formula, just get good players however you can.
There's no way their offensive line has been worse than ours.  
FStubbs : 4/16/2018 10:47 pm : link
The complete waste of space that has been Jimmy Graham in Seattle has been something to behold though.
RE: RE: RE: Teams that draft well win  
WillVAB : 4/16/2018 11:05 pm : link
In comment 13916847 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 13916717 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 13916706 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Itís as simple as that. Look at the hot teams right now around the league. The common denominator is good drafting, and not just hitting on first/second rounders.



New England misses on a ton picks. They just typically have more so they can afford the error.



The Eagles drafted Wentz, I guess but Nick Foles won the Super Bowl. Alshon Jeffeey not drafted, Torrey Smith not drafted, Blount or Ajaye not drafted. On defense I am not sure they drafted a guy outside their front four. Their Oline 3/5 Guys not drafted. No formula, just get good players however you can.


The Eagles got Lane Johnson, Ertz, and Bennie Logan in the same draft. Look at the Vikings recent drafts. Look at the Chiefs recent drafts. Look at the Jags recent drafts. The Saints were able to bounce back last year because of arguably the best draft in the history of the franchise. Yes, there is a formula.

The Pats are an anomaly.
Seattle  
WillVAB : 4/16/2018 11:09 pm : link
Is a microcosm of what Iím talking about. When they were dominant, they were drafting elite players late in the draft like Sherman and Chancellor. Then their drafts fell off a cliff, they paid Wilson, and couldnít retain their defensive talent. Now theyíre in full on rebuild mode looking up at the rest of the division.
RE: There's no way their offensive line has been worse than ours.  
bw in dc : 4/16/2018 11:11 pm : link
In comment 13916907 FStubbs said:
Quote:
The complete waste of space that has been Jimmy Graham in Seattle has been something to behold though.


Then you havenít watch Seattle play. They are without question the worst oline in the NFL. One of the worst Iíve ever seen actually.

The Giants look like the Dallas oline of Ď93 compared to them.

Russell Wilson got sacked ONLY 43 times - Eli 31 - and it would have been over 80 if he wasnít Houdini.
Seattle abandoned what was working when they paid Wilson  
Go Terps : 4/16/2018 11:36 pm : link
.
what was the alternative to paying Wilson?  
bluepepper : 4/17/2018 12:27 am : link
..
RE: what was the alternative to paying Wilson?  
chopperhatch : 4/17/2018 1:06 am : link
In comment 13916958 bluepepper said:
Quote:
..


Drafting an athletic, improvising QB every 5 years and surrounding him with a good OL, some WR talent and a beastly D. But all of this depends on practically perfect drafting to form the most dominant secondary unit in years, signing two of the most dominant 2 way DEs in the game and luckibg out on some wide outs.


It was a flash in the pan. You can draft well and pay a qb what he wants.
RE: Seattle abandoned what was working when they paid Wilson  
Giantology : 4/17/2018 7:04 am : link
In comment 13916949 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


Yeah they should have just Low balled him and drafted someone else. Especially since QBs like him are a dime a dozen. Iím sure things would still be working fine.
There are leaks for NE now as well  
Sean : 4/17/2018 7:22 am : link
.
RE: There's no way their offensive line has been worse than ours.  
GoBlue6599 : 4/17/2018 8:42 am : link
In comment 13916907 FStubbs said:
Quote:
The complete waste of space that has been Jimmy Graham in Seattle has been something to behold though.

You must've not seen much Seattle there O lind is the worse I've ever seen... Russel Wilson is Houdini like
RE: There's no way their offensive line has been worse than ours.  
Keith : 4/17/2018 8:44 am : link
In comment 13916907 FStubbs said:
Quote:
The complete waste of space that has been Jimmy Graham in Seattle has been something to behold though.


WTH are you talking about?
It's much easier to find good position players  
Keith : 4/17/2018 8:45 am : link
than a QB. Why does it make sense to let the most important player go and pray you find another Russell Wilson rather than to let the high priced defenders go and finding another safety or CB?
Terps..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/17/2018 8:46 am : link
keeps using this argumentation:

Quote:
Seattle abandoned what was working when they paid Wilson
Go Terps : 4/16/2018 11:36 pm : link : reply


Yet, examples of abandoning franchise QB's for low-cost options hasn't even shown to result in success. In fact the opposite usually occurs. When teams get rid of their franchise guy, they tend to have an extended period of down years.
RE: Terps..  
Go Terps : 4/17/2018 9:17 am : link
In comment 13917046 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
keeps using this argumentation:



Quote:


Seattle abandoned what was working when they paid Wilson
Go Terps : 4/16/2018 11:36 pm : link : reply



Yet, examples of abandoning franchise QB's for low-cost options hasn't even shown to result in success. In fact the opposite usually occurs. When teams get rid of their franchise guy, they tend to have an extended period of down years.


When has that happened?
Duh...  
T-Bone : 4/17/2018 9:23 am : link
obviously John Schneider now sucks and should be fired and his fan base should find every chance they get to remind themselves just how much he's sucked. Fuck the Super Bowl win and appearances they had on his watch!

But Pete Carroll and Wilson? They shouldn't get much... if any... of the blame.

AMIRITE?
From another thread last week  
Go Terps : 4/17/2018 9:28 am : link
Ten Ton
Go Terps : 4/11/2018 8:08 pm : link : reply
I'm not saying that as a knock on Wilson; it's just an observation that that team was constructed a certain way, and the team got away from that approach when they paid him. Since they paid him they've tried to be something else, and they haven't been as successful.

It's interesting to note their pass/run ratios, points scored, and W-L since Wilson has been in the league:

2012: 405/536, 412 points, 11-5
2013: 420/509, 417, 13-3 (SB Champs)
2014: 454/525, 394, 12-4 (should have been SB Champs, but game was taken out of Lynch's hands and put in Wilson's)
***Wilson is paid 4 yr, $87.6M extension after playing 3 seasons on a 4 yr, $3M contract***
2015: 489/500, 423 10-6
2016: 567/403, 354 10-5-1
2017: 555/409, 366 9-7

In the three years since Wilson got paid, the offense has been placed on his shoulders to a greater degree. The result has been fewer points scored and fewer games won.

Sure there are many moving parts besides just Wilson, but surely this shift (both on the field and in the salary cap structure) has played a role.
When has that happened??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/17/2018 9:30 am : link
Are you kidding?

When Aikman left the Cowboys
When Kelly left the Bills
When Elway left the Broncos
When Marino left the Dolphins
When Simms left the Giants
When Young left the Niners

And that doesn't even count the teams that greatly improved once they had franchise guys:
When eli was a Giant
When Ben was a Steeler
When Ryan was a Falcon
When Cam was a Panther
When Brady was a Patriot


Basically, the only time there have been smooth transitions is when the next franchise QB is in the wings, whether it is Rodgers after Favre, Luck after Manning (and that's looking bad now), Rivers after Brees or Young after Montana
RE: RE: RE: RE: Teams that draft well win  
Essex : 4/17/2018 10:00 am : link
In comment 13916925 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13916847 Essex said:


Quote:


In comment 13916717 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 13916706 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Itís as simple as that. Look at the hot teams right now around the league. The common denominator is good drafting, and not just hitting on first/second rounders.



New England misses on a ton picks. They just typically have more so they can afford the error.



The Eagles drafted Wentz, I guess but Nick Foles won the Super Bowl. Alshon Jeffeey not drafted, Torrey Smith not drafted, Blount or Ajaye not drafted. On defense I am not sure they drafted a guy outside their front four. Their Oline 3/5 Guys not drafted. No formula, just get good players however you can.



The Eagles got Lane Johnson, Ertz, and Bennie Logan in the same draft. Look at the Vikings recent drafts. Look at the Chiefs recent drafts. Look at the Jags recent drafts. The Saints were able to bounce back last year because of arguably the best draft in the history of the franchise. Yes, there is a formula.

The Pats are an anomaly.

Bennie Logan wasn't even on the team last year and the Eagles never signed him to a second draft. Obviously, Lane Johnson and Ertz were great picks but their drafts have not been, by any stretch of the imagination, excellent.
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