for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

3rd Round for the NYG

GoBlue6599 : 4/17/2018 9:09 am
Our last 3rd round pick who was a consistent contributor was Super Mario Manningham way back in 2008
Since then we have seen the likes of Jay Bromley, Jerell Jernigan, Jayron Hosley, Damontre Moore, Ramses Barden etc all players who have given this team nothing as far as production
Here's to hoping Gettleman can end this streak of futility for the NYG
Any names of players that could possibly be there in early round 3 for us?
Im hoping the USC back Jones or the OSU center Price possibly fall to our pick..Any other names
I still have hope that Bromley will be re-signed to be a 3-4 DE  
Ivan15 : 4/17/2018 9:17 am : link
The others were all over drafted in the sense that they didn’t fit the prototype for their position and should have been 3rd Day picks or UDFA.
RE: I still have hope that Bromley will be re-signed to be a 3-4 DE  
GoBlue6599 : 4/17/2018 9:20 am : link
In comment 13917086 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
The others were all over drafted in the sense that they didn’t fit the prototype for their position and should have been 3rd Day picks or UDFA.

Damontre Moore and Jayron Hosley had some talent, They were both just to immature to turn potential into production
Hosley  
WillVAB : 4/17/2018 9:56 am : link
Had as much talent as CC Brown with the Giants.
I was thinking about this earlier this morning  
QB Snacks : 4/17/2018 9:59 am : link
If we stay put at 2 the giants are going to have glaring needs at a few positions after the draft. Even if they hit on their first two picks they're going to need to get a player with one of their two thirds or 4th rd pick.

Pass Rusher
OL
CB
S
RB

Only so many picks to go around.
I'm expecting them to draft  
JonC : 4/17/2018 10:06 am : link
a pass rusher, at least one OL, and to look for a CB and WR.

They could use a CB to put in the pipeline and there could be value in the third round.

Good news is they made some solid frugal UFA signings, players that should be able to contribute at FS, nickel/dime, and special teams.
RB  
Peppers : 4/17/2018 10:10 am : link
The 3rd round has shown to be a good value for the RB position.
I could see a guard  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/17/2018 10:11 am : link
in that round. Guard is heavy this year, and I have a feeling the first to picks will be QB, RB respectively. I could see them picking up a guard here.
The giants simply cant afford  
QB Snacks : 4/17/2018 10:14 am : link
to draft a WR in this draft. It's totally unnecessary, ESPECIALLY if they draft Barkley 2nd.

The offensive line still is bad. They have three players that shouldnt be starting at a minimum. Patrick O is a major unknown.

With needs at pass rusher, OL, CB, etc, they have more then enough at WR. This is a weak draft at the position.
RE: The giants simply cant afford  
The_Boss : 4/17/2018 10:17 am : link
In comment 13917189 QB Snacks said:
Quote:
to draft a WR in this draft. It's totally unnecessary, ESPECIALLY if they draft Barkley 2nd.

The offensive line still is bad. They have three players that shouldnt be starting at a minimum. Patrick O is a major unknown.

With needs at pass rusher, OL, CB, etc, they have more then enough at WR. This is a weak draft at the position.


So you’d be ok starting Roger Lewis outside opposite Beckham?
Part of the draft purpose  
JonC : 4/17/2018 10:18 am : link
is getting the best talent, if WR fits the bill they'll draft one.

Make no mistake, they need a #2 in the pipeline. It doesn't ensure they'll draft one now, but they're looking.
RE: Part of the draft purpose  
QB Snacks : 4/17/2018 10:21 am : link
In comment 13917198 JonC said:
Quote:
is getting the best talent, if WR fits the bill they'll draft one.

Make no mistake, they need a #2 in the pipeline. It doesn't ensure they'll draft one now, but they're looking.


It's not an immediate need. Especially when you consider they have a WR playing tight end.

I understand the whole BPA theory, but until the giants fix their broken fundamentals it doesnt matter who they have lined up outside.
RE: RE: The giants simply cant afford  
QB Snacks : 4/17/2018 10:23 am : link
In comment 13917197 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 13917189 QB Snacks said:


Quote:


to draft a WR in this draft. It's totally unnecessary, ESPECIALLY if they draft Barkley 2nd.

The offensive line still is bad. They have three players that shouldnt be starting at a minimum. Patrick O is a major unknown.

With needs at pass rusher, OL, CB, etc, they have more then enough at WR. This is a weak draft at the position.



So you’d be ok starting Roger Lewis outside opposite Beckham?


They dont have to. They have Shepard & Marshall still under contract. Also have Engram who can line up all over the field. There are more then enough pass catchers.

They need to rebuild the core of their fundamentals before they worry about a future #2 WR. Especially in a weak WR draft.
Snacks  
JonC : 4/17/2018 10:27 am : link
The draft isn't entirely about immediate need. You're looking at this like a fan, perceive hole plug hole.

The draft isn't typically utilized that way, and it's really not debatable.

If a WR they cover is available and the value picks the pick slot, they'll draft thinking longer game.
RE: I was thinking about this earlier this morning  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/17/2018 10:28 am : link
In comment 13917167 QB Snacks said:
Quote:
If we stay put at 2 the giants are going to have glaring needs at a few positions after the draft. Even if they hit on their first two picks they're going to need to get a player with one of their two thirds or 4th rd pick.

Pass Rusher
OL
CB
S
RB

Only so many picks to go around.



The thing with trading back is that while you have more picks, it might be harder to fill holes adequately.

...  
JonC : 4/17/2018 10:28 am : link
if a WR they covet is available and the value matches the pick slot ...
As for WR  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/17/2018 10:31 am : link
I don't think they'd hesitate to pull the trigger if they like the value.

If you're leaving talent on the board because you have a bigger need to fill then you have already lost.
Jon  
QB Snacks : 4/17/2018 10:39 am : link
I totally get the BPA, but when your team has been struggling to run basic concepts due to the ineptitude of your front, you have needs at pass rusher and corner, a future #2 WR should be the least of their concerns.

At some point they have to go all in on fixing the major issue of this team for the last 6 years. Is there a scenario where the player is just so good they have to take him? I guess, but based on the rankings in this draft it seems unlikely to occur.

Just my 2 cents.



That's entirely possible, and a more accurate argument for your side  
JonC : 4/17/2018 10:49 am : link
There might not be a prospect worth the grab, and I'd agree it doesn't appear the WR talent there will factor in the first two rounds.

Philosophically, I prefer to avoid the desperate decisions.

RE: Part of the draft purpose  
AcidTest : 4/17/2018 10:53 am : link
In comment 13917198 JonC said:
Quote:
is getting the best talent, if WR fits the bill they'll draft one.

Make no mistake, they need a #2 in the pipeline. It doesn't ensure they'll draft one now, but they're looking.


The Giants used one of their pre-draft 30 visits on Thomas Owens from FIU. As I said in another thread, I'd consider trading Flowers for a late day three pick. Perkins as well if we draft Barkley.
My  
AcidTest : 4/17/2018 10:57 am : link
understanding is that the Giants are waiting for Marshall to pass a physical, so they can cut him.

WR is definitely a need, even with Engram and Barkley. After OBJ and SS, we basically have nothing except journeymen like Lewis, Sharp, and Latimer. At least use a day three pick to add another WR to the competitive mix.
I'd keep an eye on the two LSU WRs  
JonC : 4/17/2018 10:58 am : link
Cain from Clemson, and the Penn St prospect.
RE: Hosley  
jvm52106 : 4/17/2018 11:01 am : link
In comment 13917164 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Had as much talent as CC Brown with the Giants.


CC Brown, the only safety in the NFL the QB didn't want to "look off" because they might actually send him in the right direction.
RE: My  
QB Snacks : 4/17/2018 11:01 am : link
In comment 13917262 AcidTest said:
Quote:
understanding is that the Giants are waiting for Marshall to pass a physical, so they can cut him.


Do you have insider information? Otherwise, nothing I've seen this offseason indicates that. If it were true I'm sure his agent would be notified. He was at duke with Eli and CO and his been at OTA's. That doenst seem like a guy waiting to be cut.

Obviously it depends on who the first 2 picks are  
njm : 4/17/2018 11:03 am : link
It's a deep RB group, so if they haven't taken Barkley there should be a RB available who just may be the BPA. If they haven't drafted an OL in rd. 1 or 2 Eli may threaten to retire if they don't get one (interior line will probably offer the best value) so that's a possibility. And finally an edge rusher (Turay?).
Davenport  
JonC : 4/17/2018 11:52 am : link
is a prospect to watch if they skip over Chubb.
RE: I'm expecting them to draft  
WillVAB : 4/17/2018 1:11 pm : link
In comment 13917180 JonC said:
Quote:
a pass rusher, at least one OL, and to look for a CB and WR.

They could use a CB to put in the pipeline and there could be value in the third round.

Good news is they made some solid frugal UFA signings, players that should be able to contribute at FS, nickel/dime, and special teams.


This is the Reese mentality. Try to hit HR’s at skill spots and hope you at least get a role player. I hope DG stays true to his word and drafts differently.

This team needs an infusion of talent along the OL and front 7 on defense. That’s where the focus in the draft should be.

And before you parrot the need bullshit company line, the games are won in the trenches. The Giants are trying to field a winning product. The value will be there at those spots at their picks. Time to stop kicking the can down the road.
It's about maximizing the talent you get  
JonC : 4/17/2018 1:17 pm : link
from precious few draft picks.

It's got nothing to do with focusing on skill positions, and it's got nothing to do with Reese. I'd say the same thing if OL talent fit the bill at #34, I just don't think it will

Drop the Reese moniker.
Look, Will  
JonC : 4/17/2018 1:19 pm : link
you're desperate to win now, I think we need more than one offseason to load up the roster. We're not going to agree on strategy, it appears.

Keep that mind before you bother trying to insult others, your act is tired along with many other angry posters here.
RE: I'd keep an eye on the two LSU WRs  
dep026 : 4/17/2018 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13917265 JonC said:
Quote:
Cain from Clemson, and the Penn St prospect.


I can definitely see them spending a 3rd rounder for someone to start on the outside.
It would be easy to say  
JonC : 4/17/2018 1:26 pm : link
the narrow focus is surprising, but I've read it here for years.
Where Reese ran in to trouble  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/17/2018 1:37 pm : link
was often the opposite of what gets parroted here.

He addressed OL when it was a need, but he forced picks out of desperation, pickong the wrong OL at the wrong time, and now some are advocating the same thing.

Flowers was forced. Pugh was forced. Both were drafted too early. Pugh was serviceable but did not play at a 1st round level.

What we should take away from that is that you're better off taking what the board gives you.

ding ding  
JonC : 4/17/2018 1:38 pm : link
we have a winner.
RE: It's about maximizing the talent you get  
.McL. : 4/17/2018 1:49 pm : link
In comment 13917523 JonC said:
Quote:
from precious few draft picks.

It's got nothing to do with focusing on skill positions, and it's got nothing to do with Reese. I'd say the same thing if OL talent fit the bill at #34, I just don't think it will

Drop the Reese moniker.


I am by no means an expert on the available talent that might be there at #34. I have seen any number of posters talking about various OL they thought would be good choices there and that they thought would be available.

You don't think there will be good OL choices at #34?
RE: RE: It's about maximizing the talent you get  
.McL. : 4/17/2018 1:52 pm : link
In comment 13917574 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 13917523 JonC said:


Quote:


from precious few draft picks.

It's got nothing to do with focusing on skill positions, and it's got nothing to do with Reese. I'd say the same thing if OL talent fit the bill at #34, I just don't think it will

Drop the Reese moniker.



I am by no means an expert on the available talent that might be there at #34. I have seen any number of posters talking about various OL they thought would be good choices there and that they thought would be available.

You don't think there will be good OL choices at #34?


That's an honest question. I am not trying to bait you or anything.
If they skip over Chubb  
JonC : 4/17/2018 1:52 pm : link
I think there's more value in trying to secure a pass rusher like Davenport, even if they need to try and trade up a bit to get him. Pass rushers affect football games in a manner OG and C do not.

Conversely, if the value is there at OL I'm all for it, plug a hole. But the see hole plug hole nonsense without seeing the bigger picture is irritating.
as an example  
JonC : 4/17/2018 1:53 pm : link
..
RE: If they skip over Chubb  
.McL. : 4/17/2018 1:55 pm : link
In comment 13917582 JonC said:
Quote:
I think there's more value in trying to secure a pass rusher like Davenport, even if they need to try and trade up a bit to get him. Pass rushers affect football games in a manner OG and C do not.

Conversely, if the value is there at OL I'm all for it, plug a hole. But the see hole plug hole nonsense without seeing the bigger picture is irritating.


Certainly agree on pass rushers. And that is a hole as well.
Exactly  
JonC : 4/17/2018 1:57 pm : link
so is #2 WR, albeit not necessarily an urgent need above OL, for example But, there are also draft boards and positional hierarchies inherent to the game that have an effect on value of draft picks.
I also agree with your comment above  
.McL. : 4/17/2018 2:02 pm : link
This team is not going to win now, as in 2018...

A good offseason next year, and this could be a very different team in 2019.

But its still going to take some luck. Either in players on the squad developing, great production from draft picks, or FA. Plus the QB situation can't go south.

That's still a lot of ifs even in 2019.

RE: Exactly  
.McL. : 4/17/2018 2:03 pm : link
In comment 13917591 JonC said:
Quote:
so is #2 WR, albeit not necessarily an urgent need above OL, for example But, there are also draft boards and positional hierarchies inherent to the game that have an effect on value of draft picks.


Yes Position Value counts as does fit within the system
RE: Exactly  
.McL. : 4/17/2018 2:10 pm : link
In comment 13917591 JonC said:
Quote:
so is #2 WR, albeit not necessarily an urgent need above OL, for example But, there are also draft boards and positional hierarchies inherent to the game that have an effect on value of draft picks.


A real #2 is a need, but Engram does a lot of the things you would look for from a #2. Watching Engram and Shepherd run meshes last year was actually a thing of beauty. Resulted in 3 long TDs...
There is a lot to agree with here  
idiotsavant : 4/17/2018 2:17 pm : link
Such as George 'take what the board gives you'.

Sort of why I like a positional pool of 5-7 positions and take your standout best actual named specific player on the board from within that to instill some discipline into the rosters balance.

Especially after round I you can find arguable best that way. As opposed to singular position.
RE: Look, Will  
WillVAB : 4/17/2018 3:08 pm : link
In comment 13917526 JonC said:
Quote:
you're desperate to win now, I think we need more than one offseason to load up the roster. We're not going to agree on strategy, it appears.

Keep that mind before you bother trying to insult others, your act is tired along with many other angry posters here.


It wasn’t intended as an insult, but I see a lot of robotic posts chirping the same tired draft buzz words.

This is one of the weakest drafts in recent years at the WR position. Just about every draft board out there has several quality OL prospects available at 34. It’s not reaching for need if you get a potential pro bowl caliber OL at 34, around the range everyone expected the player to go. I don’t see how that’s difficult to grasp.

As far as CB goes, sure there may be value at 34. But this is where the Reese name drops come in. It doesn’t appear DG values CB as much as the prior regime when you look at how Carolina is built, his comments about the team/draft, and his prior drafts in Carolina.

I grasp it fine  
JonC : 4/17/2018 3:14 pm : link
I just don't agree with the level of certainty you're getting value at OG at #34, especially the pro bowl caliber assumption. The value might not be there at WR either, and the WRs I listed project in rounds 3-5.

As for CB, I mentioned third round option and how they'd already gone to lengths to fill in the ranks with vets.

RE: RE: Exactly  
JonC : 4/17/2018 3:18 pm : link
In comment 13917619 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 13917591 JonC said:


Quote:


so is #2 WR, albeit not necessarily an urgent need above OL, for example But, there are also draft boards and positional hierarchies inherent to the game that have an effect on value of draft picks.



A real #2 is a need, but Engram does a lot of the things you would look for from a #2. Watching Engram and Shepherd run meshes last year was actually a thing of beauty. Resulted in 3 long TDs...


Engram can certainly have an effect with some routes, but for me it's not enough to rest on laurels trying to find a vertical threat to pull the top off defenses, when the right prospect surfaces. And, that could very well be a player to be named later, for sure.
RE: I grasp it fine  
.McL. : 4/17/2018 3:27 pm : link
In comment 13917725 JonC said:
Quote:
I just don't agree with the level of certainty you're getting value at OG at #34, especially the pro bowl caliber assumption. The value might not be there at WR either, and the WRs I listed project in rounds 3-5.

As for CB, I mentioned third round option and how they'd already gone to lengths to fill in the ranks with vets.


Hmmm, I don't think any of the vets signed at CB should be a consideration regarding the decision to draft a CB if the right value is there.

If you mean that, they should not reach for a CB, yes agreed, but if the value is there, by all means don't be deterred by what is on this roster.

If not addressed this year, then I think it should be somehow addressed next year. IMO, what we have now at CB is insufficient to expect to win.
a solid CB prospect is a need for the pipeline  
JonC : 4/17/2018 3:31 pm : link
I was balancing the point with how they signed vets for 2018, presumably so they won't have to reach for one out of need, and Will's correct that DG historically hasn't paid CBs.

Wonder if he'll pay Collins, but that's for another day.
RE: RE: RE: Exactly  
.McL. : 4/17/2018 3:36 pm : link
In comment 13917733 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 13917619 .McL. said:


Quote:


In comment 13917591 JonC said:


Quote:


so is #2 WR, albeit not necessarily an urgent need above OL, for example But, there are also draft boards and positional hierarchies inherent to the game that have an effect on value of draft picks.



A real #2 is a need, but Engram does a lot of the things you would look for from a #2. Watching Engram and Shepherd run meshes last year was actually a thing of beauty. Resulted in 3 long TDs...



Engram can certainly have an effect with some routes, but for me it's not enough to rest on laurels trying to find a vertical threat to pull the top off defenses, when the right prospect surfaces. And, that could very well be a player to be named later, for sure.


Yeah a guy who can "pull the top off defenses" would help. Even Beckham's strengths are more in the short and intermediate routes done with timing and precision to allow him to make YAC.

But for that guy to truly help, we need to fix the line. Nobody will honor the deep ball if we can't pass protect long enough for the play to develop.
RE: a solid CB prospect is a need for the pipeline  
.McL. : 4/17/2018 3:39 pm : link
In comment 13917750 JonC said:
Quote:
I was balancing the point with how they signed vets for 2018, presumably so they won't have to reach for one out of need, and Will's correct that DG historically hasn't paid CBs.

Wonder if he'll pay Collins, but that's for another day.


Yeah he let Norman walk... That may have been a factor in his losing that job though. He may want to rethink that stance. CB is a premium position.
JonC  
Boatie Warrant : 4/17/2018 4:05 pm : link
Interesting take on the WR's. All the ones you mentioned seem to be of the taller variety.
Deon Cain – Clemson – 6’2/202
DJ Chark – LSU – 6’3/199
Daesean Hamilton – Penn State – 6’1/203

Is it your take that we need someone with the speed to get behind the defense or a better redzone threat?
Ideally you want both  
JonC : 4/17/2018 4:07 pm : link
good red zone target who's fast enough to pull the safety his way.
RE: If they skip over Chubb  
AcidTest : 4/17/2018 5:27 pm : link
In comment 13917582 JonC said:
Quote:
I think there's more value in trying to secure a pass rusher like Davenport, even if they need to try and trade up a bit to get him. Pass rushers affect football games in a manner OG and C do not.

Conversely, if the value is there at OL I'm all for it, plug a hole. But the see hole plug hole nonsense without seeing the bigger picture is irritating.


Agreed. FA for needs. Draft is BPA, with need a small consideration if the grades are equal, or an even bigger factor if one player is a QB the team is considering in the first round.
drafting a WR  
royhobbs7 : 9:06 am : link
With Barkley as a very possible #2 selection, the Giants will not have enough footballs to go around (if he's the pick @ #2) as Barkley is a prolific pass catcher.
So with OBL, Shepard, Engram, Barkley and a tall, possession, 3rd down WR (perhaps Marshall, if he is kept), Gettleman may wait to sign a WR FA after the draft to compete.
Some interest expressed by Getty in Equanimeous St. Brown but only if we trade down from #2.
OBL  
royhobbs7 : 9:07 am : link
sic.: OBJ
3rd Round Possibilities  
johnboyw : 7:37 pm : link
Here are a few names to munch on:

Frank Ragnow C/G. Arkansas
Josh Sweat OLB. Florida State
Darius Leonard LB. So Carolina State
DaeShon Hamilton WR. Penn State
Chukwuma Okorafor OT Western Michigan
they do need a WR  
msh : 4/19/2018 2:37 pm : link
but unless they trade back or trade a pick from next years draft to move back up in say the 3rd or 4th rounds for a guy they have conviction on they may need to concentrate on the bigger holes that defensive scheme change will bring plus they still need at least one more OL in the first 3 rounds probably

passrusher and OL are expensive in free agency thats where they need to focus their attention first but absolutely if the WR is there he is a valid option as they do need a redzone taller(6'5+) outside receiver in the plax/marshall mould
Back to the Corner