Let's see, should I trust Todd McShay who maybe broke down the All-22 on one Josh Rosen game (if any), or a guy with 30+ years experience breaking down game tape, who has a show where he does it weekly, who showed his process ( watched several games + all third downs + all 15-plus yard plays)???
This is a TOUGH question!!!!
He also likes Mayfield. Here's an interview he did at the Combine with Browns.com:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R7FUzc3rlE
Greg Cosell: Josh Rosen is perhaps the best QB in the class - (
New Window )
Is his attitude a Jeff George type? Had loads of talent but wasn't a guy you wanted on your team and wasnt a good QB.
I would pass on him mainly for the injury history. I dont think his personality would work well with the NY media. He could make it as a Brown, he will be hailed. In NY he would be torn down imo.
https://dc.sbnation.com/washington-redskins/2012/4/23/2969781/nfl-mock-draft-2012 - ( New Window )
He stated that he would take Rosen as the first QB and that he compared favorably with past first round QBs
I believe that there are contributing factors which have degraded Rosen
Rosen made it clear that he does not want to play for Cleveland
Therefore, he is not part of the conversation for the first pick
Rosen has alienated many of the scouts and the pundits by a somewhat aloof attitude
The rating of players is always subjective and if you personally like a player you excentuate the positive and deemphasive the negative , and vice versa
This is human nature.
It takes someone who is analytical and not emotionally invested to be objective
When you listen to Cosell he is matter of fact and does not get involved in off the field issues
We can play this "they were wrong" game all day.
proof - ( New Window )
Did Cosell come out with rankings on whom he likes best? Rosen's diagnosis, feet, and touch are really impressive.
I like Darnold better, but couldn't fault a team with taking any of the 4. The fact were talking about 4 at the top of the draft, highlights that we are fortunate to suck at the right time. Well see where it lands, but if Rosen can find the right situation I think he can be really effective. He's a "why" guy I think and needs to be part of the process and have buy in. This can work in some teams and not in others.
pick us apart in the playoffs two years ago? His passes were so precise,
he was completing pass after pass to covered receivers. Putting the ball
in the only place where a completion would result.
It may be doubtful that Rosen can develop to that level, but based on where
his skillset is now, he has the best chance of all the QBs in this year's
class.
That's why you take the chance. You can't pass on the opportunity to
do to other teams what Rogers did to us that afternoon.
Did Cosell come out with rankings on whom he likes best? Rosen's diagnosis, feet, and touch are really impressive.
I like Darnold better, but couldn't fault a team with taking any of the 4. The fact were talking about 4 at the top of the draft, highlights that we are fortunate to suck at the right time. Well see where it lands, but if Rosen can find the right situation I think he can be really effective. He's a "why" guy I think and needs to be part of the process and have buy in. This can work in some teams and not in others.
I find Darnold a weird guy to try to evaluate especially as a layman. His feet are all over the place, and he often throws with both feet in the air because he's got this weird bunny hop thing at the top of his drop. The thing is he's still really accurate when throwing off base, hell he might be more accurate off base.
Since we're doing a little bit of house cleaning, not sure what out system is, and who fits best. They all have there different pluses and minuses. Hopefully it's not a dopey Eli-WCO disaster.
Did Cosell come out with rankings on whom he likes best? Rosen's diagnosis, feet, and touch are really impressive.
I like Darnold better, but couldn't fault a team with taking any of the 4. The fact were talking about 4 at the top of the draft, highlights that we are fortunate to suck at the right time. Well see where it lands, but if Rosen can find the right situation I think he can be really effective. He's a "why" guy I think and needs to be part of the process and have buy in. This can work in some teams and not in others.
When it comes to playing QB, a why guy should be desirable. Why comes down to Xs and Os... You want your QB to be deep into the Xs and Os and understand whats going on with each and every play. That's how good decisions are made.
If Rosen is a why guy, I applaud it and so should potential teams.
The question with him is still health, leadership and long term desire.
Is his attitude a Jeff George type? Had loads of talent but wasn't a guy you wanted on your team and wasnt a good QB.
I would pass on him mainly for the injury history. I dont think his personality would work well with the NY media. He could make it as a Brown, he will be hailed. In NY he would be torn down imo.
It's not football and not NY, but two examples are Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez in Boston. Both *reallY8 good players; Gonzalez was close to a superstar in the making. Neither had the right head to succeed in Boston. NY is like Boston in terms of highlights, media, and general pressure. Not everyone succeeds there, whereas they likely would somewhere else. And, we know that too, even if it's subconscious. Look at some of the reasons we laud Eli...his personality makes him resistant to outside pressures. We talk about that trait all of the time when we talk about his success as the Giants QB.
We can play this "they were wrong" game all day. proof - ( New Window )
You left off the part where he thought Jared Goff is a better prospect than Winston. He is Batting better than McShay..
pick us apart in the playoffs two years ago? His passes were so precise,
he was completing pass after pass to covered receivers. Putting the ball
in the only place where a completion would result.
It may be doubtful that Rosen can develop to that level, but based on where
his skillset is now, he has the best chance of all the QBs in this year's
class.
That's why you take the chance. You can't pass on the opportunity to
do to other teams what Rogers did to us that afternoon.
How did he do in 2011?
Question is: Does Darnolds,others,ceiling potential exceed where Rosen is or can go?
Trust in the guys that get the big bucks and hope for the best.
Quote:
Muttenburger was a better prospect than Jameis Winston.
We can play this "they were wrong" game all day. proof - ( New Window )
You left off the part where he thought Jared Goff is a better prospect than Winston. He is Batting better than McShay..
He had rg3 over andrew luck.
The point is, people are wrong. The professionals, the analysts, Sy, etc. Everyone. But if you work for ESPN you're a hack looking for clicks.
I want Rosen and I think he will be really good, but my gut tells me we are all in for Barkley. Simply because I want Rosen and we will likely take Barkley doesn't mean I am right and I am not going to kill the pick. Gettleman is a paid professional and he will be judged by the results--not by me or anyone else screaming at him or celebrating him before our player plays a snap.
And, yes, it would bother me if Rosen turned out to be an elite qb for the Jets and we passed him up and I had to walk past every Jet fan wearing his jersey for the next 15 years. In other words, whether it is fair or not, if we bomb this pick and the Jets pick up an elite qb, it will be hell around here.
We can play this "they were wrong" game all day. proof - ( New Window )
Safe to speculate that Winston is going to be a coach killing failure at the Nfl level.
The more I read strange reasons for not taking Josh Rosen, the better he looks to me - because I have absolutely no idea what I'm looking at when I watch tape of the top four QBs.
Goff took some heavy hits during his senior year which (1) showed toughness and (2) created concern about whether he took too many unnecessary hits which would make Goff gun shy at the next level (I thought that).
Link - ( New Window )
Yup. The questions with Rosen are about his concussion history, and not being a threat to run.
LOL
Perhaps it was a knee jerk reaction to Cleveland in General... Then he realized, wait a minute, if Cleveland doesn't take me then the Giants might. And the Giants OL and offense is a complete mess! He might get killed back there...
Rosen: "Y.Y.Yeah, on second thought, I would love to play in Cleveland"
Giants fans realize he is a huge injury risk and isnt worth it. Hes not even close to being the best player in the draft.
Quote:
In comment 13917626 QB Snacks said:
Quote:
Muttenburger was a better prospect than Jameis Winston.
We can play this "they were wrong" game all day. proof - ( New Window )
You left off the part where he thought Jared Goff is a better prospect than Winston. He is Batting better than McShay..
He had rg3 over andrew luck.
The point is, people are wrong. The professionals, the analysts, Sy, etc. Everyone. But if you work for ESPN you're a hack looking for clicks.
He didn’t have him over luck, but he said he had a higher ceiling. Which is close to saying he was better.
Giants have a chance for Darnold or Rosen. Just do it, and move on into the future. Time to build the Giants into the next generation instead of screwing around for another year or 2 with Eli and no plan.
Quote:
the question about his is more about longevity and attitude. The kid can play but will he be around long enough to make it a worthwhile pick?
Is his attitude a Jeff George type? Had loads of talent but wasn't a guy you wanted on your team and wasnt a good QB.
I would pass on him mainly for the injury history. I dont think his personality would work well with the NY media. He could make it as a Brown, he will be hailed. In NY he would be torn down imo.
I don't have the faintest idea about ROsen and his fit. But I do know that "fit" is not trivial..or at least it is something that should be looked at. Not every place suits every guy.
It's not football and not NY, but two examples are Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez in Boston. Both *reallY8 good players; Gonzalez was close to a superstar in the making. Neither had the right head to succeed in Boston. NY is like Boston in terms of highlights, media, and general pressure. Not everyone succeeds there, whereas they likely would somewhere else. And, we know that too, even if it's subconscious. Look at some of the reasons we laud Eli...his personality makes him resistant to outside pressures. We talk about that trait all of the time when we talk about his success as the Giants QB.
Which is exactly why Rosen won't succeed in New York. Imagine Rosen being peppered with questions about political and other issues of the day and how they will destroy him on the back pages to make a quick time.
In Denver the kid could be an all pro. In NY he will get eaten for breakfast and flame out by the end of his rookie deal.
Quote:
In comment 13917595 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
the question about his is more about longevity and attitude. The kid can play but will he be around long enough to make it a worthwhile pick?
Is his attitude a Jeff George type? Had loads of talent but wasn't a guy you wanted on your team and wasnt a good QB.
I would pass on him mainly for the injury history. I dont think his personality would work well with the NY media. He could make it as a Brown, he will be hailed. In NY he would be torn down imo.
I don't have the faintest idea about ROsen and his fit. But I do know that "fit" is not trivial..or at least it is something that should be looked at. Not every place suits every guy.
It's not football and not NY, but two examples are Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez in Boston. Both *reallY8 good players; Gonzalez was close to a superstar in the making. Neither had the right head to succeed in Boston. NY is like Boston in terms of highlights, media, and general pressure. Not everyone succeeds there, whereas they likely would somewhere else. And, we know that too, even if it's subconscious. Look at some of the reasons we laud Eli...his personality makes him resistant to outside pressures. We talk about that trait all of the time when we talk about his success as the Giants QB.
Which is exactly why Rosen won't succeed in New York. Imagine Rosen being peppered with questions about political and other issues of the day and how they will destroy him on the back pages to make a quick time.
In Denver the kid could be an all pro. In NY he will get eaten for breakfast and flame out by the end of his rookie deal.
And you know his mental toughness how? You know how he will respond to questions? NFL should hire you as a mind reader.
Carl Crawford was overrated - nearly identical offensive numbers as Gardner with nowhere near the defense. Gonzalez...meh he was never really good again after his big contract.
Quote:
In comment 13917595 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
the question about his is more about longevity and attitude. The kid can play but will he be around long enough to make it a worthwhile pick?
Is his attitude a Jeff George type? Had loads of talent but wasn't a guy you wanted on your team and wasnt a good QB.
I would pass on him mainly for the injury history. I dont think his personality would work well with the NY media. He could make it as a Brown, he will be hailed. In NY he would be torn down imo.
I don't have the faintest idea about ROsen and his fit. But I do know that "fit" is not trivial..or at least it is something that should be looked at. Not every place suits every guy.
It's not football and not NY, but two examples are Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez in Boston. Both *reallY8 good players; Gonzalez was close to a superstar in the making. Neither had the right head to succeed in Boston. NY is like Boston in terms of highlights, media, and general pressure. Not everyone succeeds there, whereas they likely would somewhere else. And, we know that too, even if it's subconscious. Look at some of the reasons we laud Eli...his personality makes him resistant to outside pressures. We talk about that trait all of the time when we talk about his success as the Giants QB.
Which is exactly why Rosen won't succeed in New York. Imagine Rosen being peppered with questions about political and other issues of the day and how they will destroy him on the back pages to make a quick time.
In Denver the kid could be an all pro. In NY he will get eaten for breakfast and flame out by the end of his rookie deal.
Rosen is smarter than to be click bait.
Rosen will be an all-pro in Denver, but in NY he will bust? Isn't that a rather severe swing?
In the social media age I think the difference between NY and Denver is less pronounced than it was 30 years ago. There is nowhere to hide.
Quote:
In comment 13917672 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13917595 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
the question about his is more about longevity and attitude. The kid can play but will he be around long enough to make it a worthwhile pick?
Is his attitude a Jeff George type? Had loads of talent but wasn't a guy you wanted on your team and wasnt a good QB.
I would pass on him mainly for the injury history. I dont think his personality would work well with the NY media. He could make it as a Brown, he will be hailed. In NY he would be torn down imo.
I don't have the faintest idea about ROsen and his fit. But I do know that "fit" is not trivial..or at least it is something that should be looked at. Not every place suits every guy.
It's not football and not NY, but two examples are Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez in Boston. Both *reallY8 good players; Gonzalez was close to a superstar in the making. Neither had the right head to succeed in Boston. NY is like Boston in terms of highlights, media, and general pressure. Not everyone succeeds there, whereas they likely would somewhere else. And, we know that too, even if it's subconscious. Look at some of the reasons we laud Eli...his personality makes him resistant to outside pressures. We talk about that trait all of the time when we talk about his success as the Giants QB.
Which is exactly why Rosen won't succeed in New York. Imagine Rosen being peppered with questions about political and other issues of the day and how they will destroy him on the back pages to make a quick time.
In Denver the kid could be an all pro. In NY he will get eaten for breakfast and flame out by the end of his rookie deal.
And you know his mental toughness how? You know how he will respond to questions? NFL should hire you as a mind reader.
Carl Crawford was overrated - nearly identical offensive numbers as Gardner with nowhere near the defense. Gonzalez...meh he was never really good again after his big contract.
I DO know how he will respond to questions.
1. He decided to be the mouthpiece of the movement to pay players and was upset about Under Armour putting together a new mega deal with UCLA. At the same time he disrespects for no reason the top team in the nation in Alabama by essentially calling their team dumb,
2. The kid gets invited to a top US golf course and wears a hat that says to "F"#@" The Owner, who happened to be a presidential candidate at the time.
Now....in a vacuum both are pretty innocuous, but not when you know in the next few months EVERY THING YOU SAY AND DO WILL BE ANALYZED". That is my issue. He's supposed to be so smart yet he says and does dumb things, which show that he really doesn't care about toeing the line to create a great career.
Again, in Jacksonville where the media doesn't really care he can thrive. Almost like Rodgers in Green Bay. Nobody gives a shit up there about what he says and does.
In NY Rosen would wind up as some kind of Matt Harvey / Colin Kapernick level hybrid annoyance.
Hopefully Rosen wears blue when he gets to the Super Bowl and not Kelly Green.
I DO know how he will respond to questions.
1. He decided to be the mouthpiece of the movement to pay players and was upset about Under Armour putting together a new mega deal with UCLA. At the same time he disrespects for no reason the top team in the nation in Alabama by essentially calling their team dumb,
2. The kid gets invited to a top US golf course and wears a hat that says to "F"#@" The Owner, who happened to be a presidential candidate at the time.
So he started the pay for play in college and expressed displeasure at a new Under ARmour deal for UCLA? Doesn't sound like somebody who will get rattled by NY media. In fact, pretty much sounds like he is correct.
As for inappropriate headwear - find a college campus short of 5 Federal Academies where disrespect isn't respected and expected.
None of what you posted proves the media will rattle him. And again you do not know how he will react to anything. You know nothing. You only have an tainted opinion because you want another player draft who is not as good.
Quote:
In comment 13918032 section125 said:
I DO know how he will respond to questions.
1. He decided to be the mouthpiece of the movement to pay players and was upset about Under Armour putting together a new mega deal with UCLA. At the same time he disrespects for no reason the top team in the nation in Alabama by essentially calling their team dumb,
2. The kid gets invited to a top US golf course and wears a hat that says to "F"#@" The Owner, who happened to be a presidential candidate at the time.
So he started the pay for play in college and expressed displeasure at a new Under ARmour deal for UCLA? Doesn't sound like somebody who will get rattled by NY media. In fact, pretty much sounds like he is correct.
As for inappropriate headwear - find a college campus short of 5 Federal Academies where disrespect isn't respected and expected.
None of what you posted proves the media will rattle him. And again you do not know how he will react to anything. You know nothing. You only have an tainted opinion because you want another player draft who is not as good.
But why isn't he self aware enough to avoid all of that in the months leading up to the draft?
But why isn't he self aware enough to avoid all of that in the months leading up to the draft?
Why should he? Hey Josh, stop breathing! It certainly doesn't seem to bother anybody but you.
But if that is what makes him a no for you, that is fine. I'd rather look at the players and see what they do better than the other players, than nit pick something based on speculation.
The same Eli Manning who came into the NFL telling one franchise to go fuck itself.
Rosen's durability is a legit concern. The rest of these "knocks" are hilarious.