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NFT: Legal Question Re: Certified Pre-Owned Vehicle

NorwoodWideRight : 4/18/2018 11:56 am
Here's a question for BBI lawyers or busy-bodies:

I bought a certified pre-owned Nissan, very low miles, full extended warranty + optional rider. I brought it in for its first servicing last week and mentioned that the air conditioning didn't seem to be working properly.

I was told by the service manager that the reason the air wasn't working was because it had been in a prior accident, and I should have known that, and when it was fixed, they forgot to charge the system.

This flew up red flags. First, this was certified and I had the certified checklist that showed the environmental system had passed, and second, after digging around and doing research, Nissan is supposed to offer a CarFax report with all certified vehicles. I never got one.

So I called up the dealer and mentioned this and they spent about a week chewing this over. They said yes, it was in an accident, they absolutely should have given me a CarFax, however, the accident happened just before they took control of the vehicle from the prior owner (lease) and it wouldn't have displayed on the CarFax anyway.

Long story short, they offered to replace the vehicle. I'm going in to talk to them today. I'm assuming it would be for a vehicle with an approximately even value.

What should I know going into this, should I accept their good faith offer or should I contact an attorney? From what I read, the best I could do is getting back the money I shelled out for the car. I do like the car but I'm covering my ass on this one. Who knows if there's frame damage.
I would contact an attorney before talking to Nissan again  
Greg from LI : 4/18/2018 11:59 am : link
They are in violation of their own program.
This could be the tip of the iceberg  
Mike in NY : 4/18/2018 12:00 pm : link
See what they are willing to offer as a replacement vehicle. If they are going to do it with a vehicle you are satisfied with, clean Carfax, cover the cost of reregistering a vehicle, etc. it might be worth it even if legally they could do more. You would be spending money on an attorney for not much additional gain.
Wouldn’t  
mattyblue : 4/18/2018 12:05 pm : link
that also potentially have changed the value of the car when you purchased it? In other words, is it possible you paid more because they missed an accident and potential damage to the car? I would talk to a lawyer, I certainly am not one but it seems like the value of your car is not what you thought it was when you bought it.
RE: Wouldn’t  
NorwoodWideRight : 4/18/2018 12:07 pm : link
In comment 13918849 mattyblue said:
Quote:
that also potentially have changed the value of the car when you purchased it? In other words, is it possible you paid more because they missed an accident and potential damage to the car? I would talk to a lawyer, I certainly am not one but it seems like the value of your car is not what you thought it was when you bought it.


The dealer claims they didn't know about the accident. I'm sure that's BS, but either way, I don't think it affected the selling price. It was priced in accordance with similar vehicles of the same year & mileage.
I'd go after their lying  
rebel yell : 4/18/2018 12:08 pm : link
POS asses. You have a case.
RE: I'd go after their lying  
Mike in NY : 4/18/2018 12:10 pm : link
In comment 13918854 rebel yell said:
Quote:
POS asses. You have a case.


A case yes, but other than a satisfactory replacement vehicle (one worth more, clean CarFax,etc.) with all costs taken care of what more are you going to realistically expect as an award? That has to be offset by the cost of hiring an attorney.
of course it's BS  
Greg from LI : 4/18/2018 12:11 pm : link
We had a Honda Odyssey several years ago. Didn't buy it as a CPO, but didn't check the Carfax either. Car was great for a couple of years, then the electrical system started dying. Turns out that it had been in a major accident before we bought it and the repair job was shoddy. Our mechanic, who is both an ace and honest as the day is long (lucky to have found him) told us that, to repair it, he'd have to gut the vehicle and replace the entire electrical system, which would cost over $5000. We had to dump it while being underwater on the loan.

Since then, we always get a Carfax. They're not 100% foolproof, but they can weed out a lot of suspect cars.
RE: RE: I'd go after their lying  
NorwoodWideRight : 4/18/2018 12:13 pm : link
In comment 13918860 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13918854 rebel yell said:


Quote:


POS asses. You have a case.



A case yes, but other than a satisfactory replacement vehicle (one worth more, clean CarFax,etc.) with all costs taken care of what more are you going to realistically expect as an award? That has to be offset by the cost of hiring an attorney.


I suffered no damages, therefore all I'm going to get back is the value paid on the car, plus any incurred fees, whatever.

This is why I'm open to talking with them. If they didn't offer to replace the vehicle, I would have went straight to an attorney. Not being one myself, I don't know what else I could get, other than what I outlined.
RE: RE: RE: I'd go after their lying  
Mike in NY : 4/18/2018 12:16 pm : link
In comment 13918866 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:
In comment 13918860 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 13918854 rebel yell said:


Quote:


POS asses. You have a case.



A case yes, but other than a satisfactory replacement vehicle (one worth more, clean CarFax,etc.) with all costs taken care of what more are you going to realistically expect as an award? That has to be offset by the cost of hiring an attorney.



I suffered no damages, therefore all I'm going to get back is the value paid on the car, plus any incurred fees, whatever.

This is why I'm open to talking with them. If they didn't offer to replace the vehicle, I would have went straight to an attorney. Not being one myself, I don't know what else I could get, other than what I outlined.


Check the warranty, any legal disclosures for Certified Pre-Owned, etc. That may give you some indication as to their potential exposure without paying for an attorney. Personally I would never use them again, but that is just me.
RE: RE: RE: I'd go after their lying  
NoPeanutz : 4/18/2018 12:21 pm : link
In comment 13918866 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:
In comment 13918860 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 13918854 rebel yell said:


Quote:


POS asses. You have a case.



A case yes, but other than a satisfactory replacement vehicle (one worth more, clean CarFax,etc.) with all costs taken care of what more are you going to realistically expect as an award? That has to be offset by the cost of hiring an attorney.



I suffered no damages, therefore all I'm going to get back is the value paid on the car, plus any incurred fees, whatever.

This is why I'm open to talking with them. If they didn't offer to replace the vehicle, I would have went straight to an attorney. Not being one myself, I don't know what else I could get, other than what I outlined.


Don't forget to let the attorney general know about this. Also, maybe an enterprising attorney would decide that it is worth his time to seek out other customers who have been defrauded by this dealer. Then, you can join a class action.
Breaking the law should carry it's own penalty beyond Nissan having to offer you a mulligan.
I just bought a CPO Honda Civic  
gmangill : 6:59 am : link
for my daughter... Went to a few dealers.. First one listed the car as "Certified Pre-Owned" online. Written in Honda blue with the Honda logo... Got to the table they tried to add 995.00 to "Honda certify" the car. of course I flipped out and showed them their own add on my phone... their response "Ohhhh its just Certified pre-owned not HONDA certified... I called BS and walked out.

Went to a very reputable dealer... spoke to the salesperson and the sales manager.. turns out there is a lot of fraud in the certification.. they named a couple of dealers who lost their ability to "certify" by Honda when they got caught on spot checks by corporate... With Honda (and I would assume all manufacturers) they have the right to do unannounced checks on any CPO vehicle at any time on your lot... Its a BIG deal.

point of this... do some research on what I said and maybe you have an Ace up your sleeve in negotiations by saying you'll contact corporate Nissan directly..

just a thought.
Just because you suffered no damage  
bhill410 : 7:32 am : link
Doesn’t mean that you don’t have a case. Not sure of local jurisdiction but most states (especially ny and nj) have strong consumer protection laws to protect consumers from this activity and to offer punitive punishments. At a min I would do a quick google search before you get in to see what protections you state has and potentionall negotiate a better warranty, lifetime oil, etc. At a min they lied on certification of vehicle - that’s a big deal.
To add if you don’t try and make them have some consequences  
bhill410 : 7:33 am : link
They will simply do it again. The idea is that you are protecting society from shiesters by being a deterrent.
To add again because this is bs  
bhill410 : 7:36 am : link
Certified checks should take some time (they cost money to do as well). So they either sold you a car that got certified and then somehow got into an accident en route to dealership OR they are full of crap about it not showing up on a car fax. First one is illegal second one is immoral.
To add a 4th time since i went and googled nj consumer  
bhill410 : 7:45 am : link
Please take a look at this

https://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/in-a-nutshell-the-new-jersey-consumer-fraud-act

Highlights are treble damages (here cost of your car) plus them paying for attorney fees. Sounds like you hit both misrepresention and omission. Don’t accept new car before bringing this up to dealer if you are in NJ. Not to be litigious but if you don’t call them out on it they will just do it again.
Assuming you haven't owned it very long and didn't put many miles  
baadbill : 11:27 am : link
on the vehicle, if it were me, I'd demand a full refund of the purchase price and all associated expenses (registration etc). I would make it clear that I was not committing to purchasing another vehicle from them (if they met my demands, I would agree to deal with them, but I wouldn't commit myself to buying from them).

I would handle the situation in two steps (mentally and in actuality):

1. Void the existing transaction. Return the vehicle and transfer title back to the dealer in exchange for them returning the full purchase price (+ costs)

2. I would then start fresh shopping for another vehicle.


I understand it is a hassle to start fresh, but there is a reason behind my recommendation. It is the same reason I never use a trade-in when buying a car. If you "mix" the acquisition of another vehicle with the return of the defective vehicle, it is too easy for them to control what you are receiving (i.e. they look as though they are being nice by allowing you to "exchange" the car, but meanwhile they are really "charging" you for the exchange by giving you a worse deal on the replacement vehicle than they would normally). The same thing happens when trying to negotiate a price on a new car while simultaneously trading in an existing car - the dealer can play with the prices of both transactions to impact the total deal.

I wouldn't worry about suing at this point - not if they agreed to void the existing transaction. I'd even agree to give them a credit on the refund for your use of the vehicle (maybe .50 cents a mile) - but I would be sure to treat the voiding of the existing purchase - and acquisition of a replacement vehicle - as two separate transactions. And I definitely would not buy a replacement car from the same dealer until: (1) the refund funds were deposited and cleared in my bank account; and (2) I first visited a few other dealers and got prices for cars I was interested in, and then I'd go back to this dealer in "good faith" and see what he/she was willing to offer by way of another vehicle.

If they are willing to do all that - then I wouldn't worry about a lawsuit (after all, litigation is a real hassle and if they do right by you, you're better off proceeding as I've outlined and avoiding a two year litigation battle).






I decided to cease communication with the dealership  
and contact an attorney.

The dealership offered to pay off the vehicle, plus refund my downpayment (nothing was said about the payments I have been making, in addition to tax, title, registration, etc.). Malarkey.

I obtained a copy of the CarFax report and I'm pretty sure fraud can be proven, as Nissan handled the repair of the vehicle. It was a front-end collision with airbag deployment, which leaves me worried as hell about the frame (and the airbag).

Damages would be the devaluation of the vehicle x 3 (I'm guessing somewhere in the $10,000 range), plus attorney fees, to start.
Hang em high  
NoPeanutz : 4/20/2018 9:08 am : link
before they do it to somebody else.
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