The comment means absolutely nothing when you think about it. You have to be able to "picture" the guy putting on the gold jacket, what does that even mean? I can picture several guys going into the Hall of Fame. If I can't picture the guy going into the Hall of Fame, I don't want to draft him anywhere in the first round!
I don't know if it's still true, but George Young used to say that there are more guys in the Hall of Fame who were drafted in the second round than were drafted in the first. So shouldn't we be asking that question of the 34th overall pick in the draft as well?
It was a silly, meaningless comment from Gettleman and yet people are running with it as if it can help them distinguish one top ten draft pick from another top ten draft pick. If you want to picture someone going into the Hall of Fame, just add some gray hair and some wrinkles on the face and try to guess if he's a guy who's gonna put on a ton of weight or someone who will be skinnier as an old man.
I bet Shurmur is not who you pictured when he said that?
This led to rampant speculation about Steve Wilks and constabt "leader of men" comments and Wilks didnt make the final 3.
This led to constant stuff like : " If the Giants are looking for a coach who can command the room, Wilks has the stage." - NJ.com
People ignored more big picture comments from John Mara about looking for an experienced HC that was in tbe end more Illuminating.
"I think it has to be somebody that has either had head-coaching experience or at least has been a coordinator for a significant period of time," Mara said. "I think if you don't have that, the odds are really stacked against you."
But his comment now looking back you would obviously think Shurmur yet he was never considered the favorite in the media.
Heres what DG said:
“When we set the board and have our conversations, [we ask] is that guy worth being the second pick in the draft? Can we picture him someday maybe putting on a gold jacket?” Gettleman said. “You have to think that way. You can’t draft anybody with the second pick hoping.”
I think this is a general comment that whoever you take at 2 you hope is going to be a HoFer. Which really should be the expectation of the 2 pick. People are reading way too much into the quote.
It allows people to fit their own narrative into it like : Barkley, Nelson or not QB
I did correctly do this before with the HC comments. I wrote a whole post on it at beginning of search interpreting quotes and it led me to Shurmur. Ive linked it below.
People are once again ignoring some big picture comments from Mara:
"When was the last time we changed a general manager and a head coach in the same year? It was 1979, and there might be another change or two or three happening in the future. For me, that's pretty wholesale."- Mara
Yes in 1979 we drafted Phil Simms in 1st round. GM/HC/QB = wholesale
Couple that with this Nov Espn report everyone forgot about:
"There was a directive given several weeks back by co-owner John Mara to start looking closely at the top college quarterbacks, multiple sources told ESPN. "
What DG has done with the gold jacket comment is set up the fanbase to be excited with whoever is the 2 pick because it means we think we picked a HoFer.
It's just like every reporter and fan keeps saying Hog Mollies because DG said it once (or twice?). Stop listening to what GMs say in press conferences and watching what they do with the roster.
We have a lot of transactions to judge DG with. Stick with that.
The comment has been abused by folks trying to convince people why their guy is going to be the pick (and others are wrong) as if this criteria for how the decision will be made.
Who they will pick, but with this comment, I'd say it's the best player available - who I'd say has the best shot (without having played a down in the NFL), at the mythical "yellow jacket".
I know who I want them to pick, but that has nothing to do with this discussion. I'll either be very happy or extremely disappointed on draft day (but most likely not surprised) ....
When DG is presented with a QB question his tone and repeated mantra has been: 'You have to be sure because if you pick one at #2 and miss on him you are set back 5 years.
Why would he keep saying that if he thought 2 or 3 of these guys are franchise players?' That repeated and consistent tone alone really makes me think:
1. They aren't going QB at #2 no matter what
OR
2. They only like one of them high enough at #2 but they think could be picked by Cleveland (very likely Darnold)
Fact is Giants have always been a more conservative or 'risk-averse' organization than most. Subsequently there 'risk-tolerance' is much lower than many other organizations. Eli Manning to them was about as 'sure-thing' a QB prospect that they had ever seen. EA brought it up, he had like NO negatives on him. Their was a recent POST article on it. Which is why an organization that ALMOST never trades up at the top of the draft giving up a big ransom actually did for the first time in their HISTORY for Eli Manning.
We may not agree with them , I don't--- as I think Rosen and even Darnold are worth the risk because they are likely stars in my eyes. Nevertheless, after seeing and reading all the articles and sound bytes they have given multiple media outlets to run with, I really don't think they believe enough in this group of QBs. Giants are ultra -critical when it comes to making the QB investment at the top of the draft. Again in my opinion, I think they are overly critical and will end up missing out on a couple very good to elite QBs. Mayfield I can understand if they pass on, the personality borders on arrogance (that may not tone down) as opposed to Rosen who has 'youthful exuberance' but seems to be maturing from it.
If Eli was even 32 instead of 37, I'd have no issue with passing on a QB this draft. I love Eli and I think he still has championship level football in him. But let's be realistic, how much longer? He's 37 folks and time always eventually wins. Picking at #2 doesn't happen often for a quality franchise like this team.
They either better be darn right about Webb or luck into a guy later in the draft (like Lauletta) and he actually becomes a star.
In the short term though (next 2 maybe 3 years) we could have an absolutely explosive offense if Barkley is added to the promising mix of OBJ,Engram and Shepard. Of course this is contingent on completing the revamping of the OL with at least 1 plug and play starter in the draft (or a couple unsuspecting guys already on the roster surprise like Flower,Jones,Wheeler,Halapio etc.).
Nelson
I don't know if it's still true, but George Young used to say that there are more guys in the Hall of Fame who were drafted in the second round than were drafted in the first. So shouldn't we be asking that question of the 34th overall pick in the draft as well?
It was a silly, meaningless comment from Gettleman and yet people are running with it as if it can help them distinguish one top ten draft pick from another top ten draft pick. If you want to picture someone going into the Hall of Fame, just add some gray hair and some wrinkles on the face and try to guess if he's a guy who's gonna put on a ton of weight or someone who will be skinnier as an old man.
Nobody can say with a straight face, "there's not yellow jackets at #2, so let's trade down". ridiculous.
If anything, every front office in the league is overthinking this whole process.
I bet Shurmur is not who you pictured when he said that?
This led to rampant speculation about Steve Wilks and constabt "leader of men" comments and Wilks didnt make the final 3.
This led to constant stuff like : " If the Giants are looking for a coach who can command the room, Wilks has the stage." - NJ.com
People ignored more big picture comments from John Mara about looking for an experienced HC that was in tbe end more Illuminating.
"I think it has to be somebody that has either had head-coaching experience or at least has been a coordinator for a significant period of time," Mara said. "I think if you don't have that, the odds are really stacked against you."
But his comment now looking back you would obviously think Shurmur yet he was never considered the favorite in the media.
Heres what DG said:
“When we set the board and have our conversations, [we ask] is that guy worth being the second pick in the draft? Can we picture him someday maybe putting on a gold jacket?” Gettleman said. “You have to think that way. You can’t draft anybody with the second pick hoping.”
I think this is a general comment that whoever you take at 2 you hope is going to be a HoFer. Which really should be the expectation of the 2 pick. People are reading way too much into the quote.
It allows people to fit their own narrative into it like : Barkley, Nelson or not QB
I did correctly do this before with the HC comments. I wrote a whole post on it at beginning of search interpreting quotes and it led me to Shurmur. Ive linked it below.
People are once again ignoring some big picture comments from Mara:
"When was the last time we changed a general manager and a head coach in the same year? It was 1979, and there might be another change or two or three happening in the future. For me, that's pretty wholesale."- Mara
Yes in 1979 we drafted Phil Simms in 1st round. GM/HC/QB = wholesale
Couple that with this Nov Espn report everyone forgot about:
"There was a directive given several weeks back by co-owner John Mara to start looking closely at the top college quarterbacks, multiple sources told ESPN. "
What DG has done with the gold jacket comment is set up the fanbase to be excited with whoever is the 2 pick because it means we think we picked a HoFer.
Case for Shurmur - ( New Window )
We have a lot of transactions to judge DG with. Stick with that.
Super thread!
Who the fuck knows. You draft the player that you like best and think will help your team most both in the now and in the long term.
If that is a Rb, G or DE great. All three will be impact starters at this point.
If that is a qb great he impact this team by learning from one of the best qbs in GIANTS history.
Giants will do whats best for the team period!!!
Who they will pick, but with this comment, I'd say it's the best player available - who I'd say has the best shot (without having played a down in the NFL), at the mythical "yellow jacket".
I know who I want them to pick, but that has nothing to do with this discussion. I'll either be very happy or extremely disappointed on draft day (but most likely not surprised) ....
Why would he keep saying that if he thought 2 or 3 of these guys are franchise players?' That repeated and consistent tone alone really makes me think:
1. They aren't going QB at #2 no matter what
OR
2. They only like one of them high enough at #2 but they think could be picked by Cleveland (very likely Darnold)
Fact is Giants have always been a more conservative or 'risk-averse' organization than most. Subsequently there 'risk-tolerance' is much lower than many other organizations. Eli Manning to them was about as 'sure-thing' a QB prospect that they had ever seen. EA brought it up, he had like NO negatives on him. Their was a recent POST article on it. Which is why an organization that ALMOST never trades up at the top of the draft giving up a big ransom actually did for the first time in their HISTORY for Eli Manning.
We may not agree with them , I don't--- as I think Rosen and even Darnold are worth the risk because they are likely stars in my eyes. Nevertheless, after seeing and reading all the articles and sound bytes they have given multiple media outlets to run with, I really don't think they believe enough in this group of QBs. Giants are ultra -critical when it comes to making the QB investment at the top of the draft. Again in my opinion, I think they are overly critical and will end up missing out on a couple very good to elite QBs. Mayfield I can understand if they pass on, the personality borders on arrogance (that may not tone down) as opposed to Rosen who has 'youthful exuberance' but seems to be maturing from it.
If Eli was even 32 instead of 37, I'd have no issue with passing on a QB this draft. I love Eli and I think he still has championship level football in him. But let's be realistic, how much longer? He's 37 folks and time always eventually wins. Picking at #2 doesn't happen often for a quality franchise like this team.
They either better be darn right about Webb or luck into a guy later in the draft (like Lauletta) and he actually becomes a star.
In the short term though (next 2 maybe 3 years) we could have an absolutely explosive offense if Barkley is added to the promising mix of OBJ,Engram and Shepard. Of course this is contingent on completing the revamping of the OL with at least 1 plug and play starter in the draft (or a couple unsuspecting guys already on the roster surprise like Flower,Jones,Wheeler,Halapio etc.).