Accorsi says Eli Manning has at least two years left...

Are you being serious?

In comment 13920221 Keith said:

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So now Eli had a good 2016. This is why you can't have reasonable conversations about Eli.

Even I didnt say that.

I dont know why people are wringing their hands with Eli starting this year. If he plays well - great. If we take Darnold or Rosen, and Eli stinks - they will get game experience and learn from Eli.

There really is a win/win situation. We arent expected to go anywhere this year - so we can let Eli play, get the QB, have him learn and watch and see what happens. Are we really going to be sad if Eli plays well and we somehow make the playoffs?

In comment 13920227 Chris684 said:

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Are you being serious?

It wasnt bad. But it could have been much better. If not for our defense, he could have had the same stats and we may have won 4-5 games.

WIth the last regime, Eli led the league in picks and it was the system and OC fault. The WRs and TE's all ran wrong routes, tipped balls. We heard it all.

Now he's in decline and playing poorly 2 years in a row and it's the OL, the weapons, the running game, the system.

Eli went from being severly underrated to overrated since his benching. It's amazing what has happened.

Reality..the dude is 37 years old and he's had 2 bad seasons in a row. The odds of him returning to form are very slim. It's certainly possible, but we'd be moronic to plan for it to happen.

trying to argue 2016, but I will say this. He was bad in 2016(thank god for OBJ!), BUT, when it mattered most in the playoffs, Eli was legit.

In comment 13920191 JonC said:

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is increasing, and hit an ugly high in 2017. It's not all on Eli, due to injuries, system and character problems etc, but he was part of the problem. He's 37, the window is closing because Father Time says so. It doesn't mean he can't be effective and win some football games, but wagering he's got enough to win a Super Bowl doesn't compute for me.

Tend to agree. He's 37. The bad team is part of the reason he was ineffective last year, but he's also declining. We would ideally get a QB now, someone who can sit for a year or two, and take over in 2019 or 2020. Although I respect those who think otherwise, I don't believe there is a QB worthy of the #2 pick. But with Rosen apparently falling, one interesting scenario would be to trade down to seven or eight and draft him after acquiring extra picks. The risk of course is that somebody might trade up to draft him, but doing that could be a compromise between "win now" and using this draft to get our prospective future QB.

In comment 13920234 Keith said:

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WIth the last regime, Eli led the league in picks and it was the system and OC fault. The WRs and TE's all ran wrong routes, tipped balls. We heard it all. Now he's in decline and playing poorly 2 years in a row and it's the OL, the weapons, the running game, the system. Eli went from being severly underrated to overrated since his benching. It's amazing what has happened. Reality..the dude is 37 years old and he's had 2 bad seasons in a row. The odds of him returning to form are very slim. It's certainly possible, but we'd be moronic to plan for it to happen.

Yeah, we have to take a QB.

My only rebuttal is that Eli took a dive for the worse at the same time McAdoo came. Now did that fast forward his decline quicker than we want? Possibly. But when your offense is predictable like McAdoos was - I would argue many QBs would struggle. I mean, we had 90% of our plays from the same formation? We couldnt figure out how to beat a cover 2 defense?

Eli may be done. Id like to see him this year. And like I said, if he plays well and we win, awesome. If he continues to struggle, play the rookie. Learning from Eli is never a negative, IMO.

we are on the same page regarding Eli. I'm not gonna say MacAdoo's offense ruined Eli, but Eli was a brutal fit from the get go. 37 year old QB's that are scared of getting hit, don't just turn it back, IMO. I'd say Reese ruined him more than anythign else by putting those OL's in front of him.

In comment 13920239 dep026 said:

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In comment 13920234 Keith said: Quote: WIth the last regime, Eli led the league in picks and it was the system and OC fault. The WRs and TE's all ran wrong routes, tipped balls. We heard it all. Now he's in decline and playing poorly 2 years in a row and it's the OL, the weapons, the running game, the system. Eli went from being severly underrated to overrated since his benching. It's amazing what has happened. Reality..the dude is 37 years old and he's had 2 bad seasons in a row. The odds of him returning to form are very slim. It's certainly possible, but we'd be moronic to plan for it to happen. Yeah, we have to take a QB. My only rebuttal is that Eli took a dive for the worse at the same time McAdoo came. Now did that fast forward his decline quicker than we want? Possibly. But when your offense is predictable like McAdoos was - I would argue many QBs would struggle. I mean, we had 90% of our plays from the same formation? We couldnt figure out how to beat a cover 2 defense? Eli may be done. Id like to see him this year. And like I said, if he plays well and we win, awesome. If he continues to struggle, play the rookie. Learning from Eli is never a negative, IMO.

I agree with all of this except the have to take a QB, I'm assuming at 2, but that's just because I have a different opinion about finding a QB.

I agree we need to be grooming Eli's replacement. I just don't believe that guy has to be at the 2nd overall pick. I'd rather take a pro offense style QB in a later round. Like Lauletta, who the Patriots are showing a lot of interest in.

RG3 and Kirk Cousins.

One was a can't miss pick 2nd overall pick, one was a WTF 4th round pick.

One was a spread style QB, and one was a pro style QB.

One is now out of the league, and one just got a ton of money in FA.

objectivity is on par with Archie Manning, given EA made his biggest professional gamble on #10.

I am going to enjoy him this season from him no matter what happens. There are absolutely no expectations. It will probably be his last year on the team. He is going to throw some bad balls, and some bad INTs. But with SS, OBJ, EE, and maybe Barkley - he is going to make a lot of good ones too.

The end of an era is coming. It sucks his career ended the way it did. But I said this before - as far as the most talented and best Giant as a player - he would be somewhere in the top 7-10. However, he may be the greatest Giant we ever saw as far as the total package. He may not be respected in the outside world as fans go. But anyone who played with him or coached him have never said a bad thing about him.

He will be in the ROH and number should be retired as well. I just hope fans remember this when the season goes and he makes some mistakes as games goes on.

numbers don't completely reflect it, Eli was poor in 2016 and 2017. That really shouldn't be debated.

What's troublesome as fans is we had such a colossal waste of a coach that we are left wondering what is Eli's fault from decline and what was the fault of a terrible offensive system. we also are left knowing nothing about Davis Webb too, because of that same coach.

I've been firmly in that middle ground for a few years now where I think Eli is good enough to win on a team with an above average D and an adequate OL, but I'd welcome drafting a QB to succeed him and we need to plan the succession sooner than later.

When he has been behind an adequate offensive line and had a credible run game, he has been really good. He is great in play action. When he has not had an offensive line he has not been able to lift the team. He can extend plays within the pocket (if there is a pocket). Watching a lot of the games last year, the receivers are not open at all when the pocket is collapsing. That leads to all kinds of bad things.

I really don't see how you judge 2017 based on the shitshow that occurred. I think people see what they want to see and there is huge confirmation bias in everyone's "analysis".

In comment 13920236 AcidTest said:

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In comment 13920191 JonC said: Quote: is increasing, and hit an ugly high in 2017. It's not all on Eli, due to injuries, system and character problems etc, but he was part of the problem. He's 37, the window is closing because Father Time says so. It doesn't mean he can't be effective and win some football games, but wagering he's got enough to win a Super Bowl doesn't compute for me. Tend to agree. He's 37. The bad team is part of the reason he was ineffective last year, but he's also declining. We would ideally get a QB now, someone who can sit for a year or two, and take over in 2019 or 2020. Although I respect those who think otherwise, I don't believe there is a QB worthy of the #2 pick. But with Rosen apparently falling, one interesting scenario would be to trade down to seven or eight and draft him after acquiring extra picks. The risk of course is that somebody might trade up to draft him, but doing that could be a compromise between "win now" and using this draft to get our prospective future QB.

If the decision is they don't believe in a QB at #2 in this draft, I have no problem with it. Load up and let's go to war behind Eli.

But, if they covet a QB now is the time to get him.

we have a lot of holes. If you think the team needs a QB, take the best one, not the 8th best one. If you like a project, we have one on the team. I mean is there a big difference from Laudetta and Webb? Having both on the team seems to be wasted resoruces to me.

In comment 13920204 Chris684 said:

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377-598 63% completion 4027 yards 26 TDs 16 picks 11-5 team record

He was 27th in total QBR in 2016. He was below average at best.

well said.

In comment 13920282 dep026 said:

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we have a lot of holes. If you think the team needs a QB, take the best one, not the 8th best one. If you like a project, we have one on the team. I mean is there a big difference from Laudetta and Webb? Having both on the team seems to be wasted resoruces to me.

Yes, there is a HUGE difference between Lauletta and Webb.

Webb comes from a spread offense and never took a snap from under center. Lauletta comes from a pro style offense and took snaps under center in college.

In comment 13920283 NYG07 said:

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In comment 13920204 Chris684 said: Quote: 377-598 63% completion 4027 yards 26 TDs 16 picks 11-5 team record He was 27th in total QBR in 2016. He was below average at best.

Using 1 stat to prop up or shoot down a QB is risky. Sometimes you have to find a middle ground.

In comment 13920292 Britt in VA said:

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In comment 13920282 dep026 said: Quote: we have a lot of holes. If you think the team needs a QB, take the best one, not the 8th best one. If you like a project, we have one on the team. I mean is there a big difference from Laudetta and Webb? Having both on the team seems to be wasted resoruces to me. Yes, there is a HUGE difference between Lauletta and Webb. Webb comes from a spread offense and never took a snap from under center. Lauletta comes from a pro style offense and took snaps under center in college.

One played against top competition, and one didnt. And trust me I am not much of a Webb fan. Both are developmental guys.

in the last two seasons but if you focus on the game where we came closest to scoring 30 then the QB looks good. Sounds like real hard-headed logic going on here.

In comment 13920298 dep026 said:

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In comment 13920292 Britt in VA said: Quote: In comment 13920282 dep026 said: Quote: we have a lot of holes. If you think the team needs a QB, take the best one, not the 8th best one. If you like a project, we have one on the team. I mean is there a big difference from Laudetta and Webb? Having both on the team seems to be wasted resoruces to me. Yes, there is a HUGE difference between Lauletta and Webb. Webb comes from a spread offense and never took a snap from under center. Lauletta comes from a pro style offense and took snaps under center in college. One played against top competition, and one didnt. And trust me I am not much of a Webb fan. Both are developmental guys.

For me, it's all about spread offense vs. pro style offense. That's my main thing.

Spread offense QB's struggle to make the transition to the NFL if they don't go into the right system.

They have many deficiencies that pro style offenses don't have.

-They don't know how to diagnose defenses
-They don't take snaps under center
-They don't audible

right?

In comment 13920320 mdc1 said:

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right?

Correct.

problem is that Eli is beginning to look like David Carr, when he was in Houston. He's been hit so often that he misses throws even when there's no pressure. His lack of mobility also increases the chance he'll be hit, as does the poor OL play.

That some of you are actually out there claiming that you know one way or another if Eli is done or not. Fact is, NOBODY knows what hes got left in the tank.

Think about this for a second, McAdoo brought a half-assed version of the Packers offense here to NY. A system where you need your QB to be Aaron Rodgers, and nothing less to succeed. Every time Rodgers went down, the GB offense went to complete shit. Any system that relies so heavily on your QB to be All-World is flawed IMO.

Even more so, when you have an immobile 37-year-old pocket passer as your QB, with no offensive line, and not more than 1 weapon at a time over the last 4 years.
Really not sure what some of you expected.

The timing of all of this sucks because the Giants are in prime position to take a QB this year and we really dont know what Eli has left (or what Webb has to offer). For all we know, those calling for Eli's head MAY be right, but we wont know either way until we see what he can do this year.

For those that are saying that the last Eagles game was the only time Eli showed that he still "has it", I disagree.

Eli was good/great in both Eagle games. He had a very good game in SF, in Tampa, and was having a good game vs the Chargers too before he lost every single starting WR in that game.

The season is over 4 games into the season. You now have practice squad players as your starting WR's for the remaining 12 games of the season to go along with no running game and an awful offensive line.

These guys are human. It's a different mindset playing a game in October knowing that you're just playing out the string. Although it's the only real metric we can use, I think it's a bit unfair to judge him based on last year.

I think last year should just be thrown out the window to be honest, but I would also not hesitate to kiss Eli on the mouth either, so take this FWIW

In comment 13920152 GiantNatty said:

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But I would be shocked if they think that planning the foreseeable future of the organization around Eli is a sound move. With all due respect to him and his huge brass balls, Eli just isn't that good (and really, I love the guy). Six playoff appearances with four one-and-dones in fourteen seasons? He didn't exactly light it up even in his prime. They talk about the Philly game and use the word "mirage," which suggests the rest of his season was a desert. And let's face it, it kinda was. The offense hasn't functioned well for years, and much of the blame goes to him. And now you want to believe that they're not going to take a QB even with this golden opportunity because they think Eli has at most two more years of maddeningly frustrating play? Please. They can say it all they want - it certainly behooves them to say it. And even if they actually mean it, I've seen every play of his career and I'm sorry but I'm just not buying it.

Natty - What I think they are setting up is that the drafted QB sits this year and maybe starts to play in 2019 when Eli is in his last year. And Webb will be the backup this year. So the question to me is, are they really drafting a guy to hold a clipboard for a year or more?

In comment 13920157 NYGmen58 said:

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In comment 13920046 JonC said: Quote: if we use our eyes to see the entire 2017 season, and the two seasons before it. Huh? He was a Pro Bowler in 2015...

I think he was like the 4th alternate.. so they get 3 to begin with then they go to the alernates.. so 7th QB to be selected to probowl from NFC that season.. That season here were the other pro bowlers:

Tyrod Tayor
David Carr
Jameis Winston
Teddy Bridgewater...

is people taking what the organization is saying about a current player as gospel. Its PC speak. I cannot recall any GM or coach say a negative word about an existing contracted player ever and usually the statements are along the lines of that they have full confidence in them.

Regardless of where you fall on the Eli spectrum, he represents the best starter at the position at this time for NYG. Giants brass are not going to bash him one bit even if they have watched the video and question his abilities.

In comment 13920363 hassan said:

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is people taking what the organization is saying about a current player as gospel. Its PC speak. I cannot recall any GM or coach say a negative word about an existing contracted player ever and usually the statements are along the lines of that they have full confidence in them. Regardless of where you fall on the Eli spectrum, he represents the best starter at the position at this time for NYG. Giants brass are not going to bash him one bit even if they have watched the video and question his abilities.

I guess you missed the past few years that Reese and McAdoo were constantly throwing Eli under the bus.

It's an extraordinarily easy question: in 2 years with achievable improvements in talent, can Manning get the Giants in the running for a ring. That's going to take 11-12 wins and an offense that can tip the balance when needed.

There's only a handful of fans who think Manning is shot, or as bad frankly as he looked last year. The extreme majority of fans realize the team sucked top to bottom.

What a lot of fans feel is the team is far away from good, and would need transcendent QB play to go from shitsuck to championship in the next few years.

I see the chest bumps now when Manning has a moderately improved season playing every snap and the Giants climb to 7-9, which of course is the absolute worst thing for the future of the team.

at that point the fall off will be huge, THEN WHAT? The Giants will be mid to low first round if they are performing decently and then will be scrambling to move up in the draft by mortgaging their future for the leftovers of the top QBs.

conversation is a train wreck. If the Giants think a QB at #2 is worth it they will select him. I don’t think there is anything else to it. Passing on a QB you have faith in because Accorsi said this or Gettleman said that really doesn’t matter and will not happen. I doubt Eli really fits into the discussion unless they aren’t really that confident in any of the QBs.

fair enough, Macadoo was throwing his qb under the bus pretty actively. That is also fairly unprecedented and we know what kind of coach he is. Reese's comments were more benign. We also know what kind of GM he is at this point.

Maybe a better way for me to say it is in 98% of cases teams will only back their players.

Have 2 years left. I was told at a minimum he'll be allowed to finish his contract here if he plays well perhaps longer. I believe he'll play well and do that. Some here don't agree but the giants org are now fully behind him

comment that personnel guys love to give. I mean could Eli play the kind of "winning" or "championship" football Peyton did in 2015 when the Broncos won the Super Bowl... sure...
But the Giants don't have a stacked roster otherwise to win in spite of him managing a game...

In comment 13920399 Dnew15 said:

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comment that personnel guys love to give. I mean could Eli play the kind of "winning" or "championship" football Peyton did in 2015 when the Broncos won the Super Bowl... sure... But the Giants don't have a stacked roster otherwise to win in spite of him managing a game...

I see this comparison a lot. There really is no merit to it.

A. Peyton had had 4 Neck Surgeries in two years, and a noodle arm at that point. There were doubts he'd ever play again after that year he lost. Eli has never had anything close that that.

B. Peyton was 40 years old at that point, in addition to the injuries.

excuse me. I don't want to exaggerate to make a point like others do.

threads on BBI in awhile. Everyone, well except for 1 or 2, are making cases for/against and acknowledging there needs to be a plan for the future.

Are we all growing as a whole? If so, keith is looking to give hugs and rubs to everyone.

If this is an accurate assessment from Accorsi, the prudent move is to draft his replacement now. It's a safe bet that this draft pick will be the best opportunity in the next 2 years to acquire a promising QB prospect.

This is a time to be proactive, rather than reactive. You don't wait until the building has collapsed to repair the foundation.

.

But the decline has begun and at this point I don't see him elevating much around him. We know where the previous administration stood on this. This current group is saying all the right things but actions speak. They may not deem the available QBs worthy when they are on the clock, but they are certainly doing their homework on possible replacements. I previously assumed it were QB at 2 or not at all --now I'm not so sure.

In comment 13920436 Britt in VA said:

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.

That wasn't really my meaning. My meaning is that is we believe Eli has two years left, we know we're going to have a need to fill that position in two years. We shouldn't wait until then to address the issue if we have the best possible situation to do so now.

But if we're talking about the Giants being the building that's collapsed, that's damning of Eli because he was a part of that.

Either way, it's time to move on. The only sound argument for keeping him and not drafting a quarterback is that we feel we can win a title with him in these two years. Personally I don't think we can.

In comment 13920221 Keith said:

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So now Eli had a good 2016. This is why you can't have reasonable conversations about Eli.

Objectivity when it comes to Eli is gone. He is what he is at this point. A formerly great player who is now a bottom 1/3rd QB. Can he still flash? Yes. Should he be given the starting job with no competition? Absolutely not. Should the Giants pretend like they don't need to draft a QB? Only if they like picking top 5 in the draft for the foreseeable future.

In comment 13920447 UberAlias said:

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But the decline has begun and at this point I don't see him elevating much around him. We know where the previous administration stood on this. This current group is saying all the right things but actions speak. They may not deem the available QBs worthy when they are on the clock, but they are certainly doing their homework on possible replacements. I previously assumed it were QB at 2 or not at all --now I'm not so sure.

Has the decline begun with Brady? Brees? Rivers? Roethlisberger? Come on guys - this is about Eli being an unthrilling and immobile quarterback who just happens to be statistically one of the top quarterbacks of all time and a two time super bowl winner and MVP.

Love him or hate him, this is still the same Eli we have always known. Give him weapons and an offensive line and he is a pro bowler in 2018. He has at least two years left and likely several more after that...

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Has the decline begun with Brady? Brees? Rivers? Roethlisberger?

Yes it has.

In comment 13920456 Justlurking said:

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In comment 13920221 Keith said: Quote: So now Eli had a good 2016. This is why you can't have reasonable conversations about Eli. Objectivity when it comes to Eli is gone. He is what he is at this point. A formerly great player who is now a bottom 1/3rd QB. Can he still flash? Yes. Should he be given the starting job with no competition? Absolutely not. Should the Giants pretend like they don't need to draft a QB? Only if they like picking top 5 in the draft for the foreseeable future.

correction,manning has never been great,good yes.