Parcells made a point of never settling just to “get rid of it.” He successfully defended 5 law suits against him , and he counter-claimed on occasion . But this does seem more substantive than Eli’s troupe made it out to be . Not to worry, though . It’s not Eli’s fault . It never is.
Couldn't agree more for both practical and personal reasons. I could easily see him losing 4 games if it's incontrovertibly proven he was part of a fraud. And if Mara didn't do much to look into it, I could see the team losing a pick.
I've never found Manning a particularly likable guy, but he's certainly appeared to be a very decent guy and it's pretty tough to imagine a guy sitting on a 100M in earnings wrapped up in this.
This. Who cares? Owning sports memorabilia can be a fun hobby, and I'm not disparaging it for those who enjoy it, but there are bigger things in this world to get upset about.
Indicted for selling fakes; case dropped. Then sues for being given fakes?
If the case was dropped due to insufficient evidence, kinda think his lawyer made a good argument the couldn't be proven fake, or at least a pattern of game items.
If a deal with the U.S. attorney to get the bigger fish, even if that one item was a fake, then have to prove Eli and
others in the organizational knew. Sounds like the argument of the 'joking' text from TB to move he equipment guy that he likes the ball a little smaller. This maybe the equipment man took it on his own to deflate the ball. Call guys if true.
15 months of he said/he said gets us to July '19; some delays/unavailabilitiesget to October, then request delay due to season to post February 2020 Eli retires; maybe please bargains, offers restitution w/o admission of guilt, ends up the Pets Rose of football in the court of public opinion re HOF. All if guilty.
not so positive that the league doesn’t suspend him if this turns out to be actual fraud he was involved in. It’s pretty shitty of him if he knew what was occurring. Makes no sense to me why he would do it though.
Manning was pretty adamant his email was taken out of context, seems like he'll get the opportunity to clarify in the civil trial.
Important to note the scam the Skibas appear to have been wrapped up in, is different than what Manning allegedly did. Manning owed a dealer gear, and asked for something that could pass as game worn.
The equipment guys are accused of a whole operation of spinning up fake shit.
I'm surprised Mara just didn't pay for this to go away.
Guy, I believe he broke a contract but not the law. I doubt he will ever set foot in the court.
He may face a civil suit but nothing criminal.
He may have participated in a scheme to defraud people who do (legally and for a living) take money for the memorabilia, and by extension, defrauded our fellow fans who bought fake memorabilia.
At bare minimum, it was a selfish act on his part if he wanted to keep his own gear.
Guy, I believe he broke a contract but not the law. I doubt he will ever set foot in the court.
He may face a civil suit but nothing criminal.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, this is a civil suit.
It's clearly stated in the linked article and really in every article this is a civil case. Almost impossible to miss if one is actually interested in a conversation on the topic.
he would have been less disruptive if he beat his wife like Josh Brown. Or drove drunk like David Diehl or Roger Lewis. Those things are less severe.
He has not been found guilty of a thing and probably will never see the court room. And a really good chance he will not be disciplined. Sorry to disappoint you.
Let's please not let Josh Brown be our threshold for the point where bad behavior becomes unacceptable. The line should come far before that.
This was a response to someone saying Eli, who may have passed off fake gear was doing something that was the worst off field things since Burress. I find beating your wife way worse. I find driving drunk way worse.
Someone wanted to continue on with something that may not be there.
Par for the course dude - you conflate "worse" with "disruptive" - which of course I didn't say. It's an opinion - on the topic. Maybe a topic you don't love, or gets under you skin, which again is not your strong suit.
I do feel getting the owner deposed, the FBI involved, and a potential trial where many of the Giants brass might have to testify more disruptive than the few week blip Brown garnered, and the one day blip Diehl garnered.
Honestly, what's the value of your "same people every thread" comment? Is it bringing value to conversation, more information, nuanced thought? Furthering a point of view?
Like I said, it's ironic, because you clearly have a pattern of starting on threads with a semblance of contribution then getting your feelings hurt. And if the past is any indication, you're going to get super worked up and pop-off.
Why can't you just resist when you have nothing to contribute?
Par for the course dude - you conflate "worse" with "disruptive" - which of course I didn't say. It's an opinion - on the topic. Maybe a topic you don't love, or gets under you skin, which again is not your strong suit.
I do feel getting the owner deposed, the FBI involved, and a potential trial where many of the Giants brass might have to testify more disruptive than the few week blip Brown garnered, and the one day blip Diehl garnered.
Honestly, what's the value of your "same people every thread" comment? Is it bringing value to conversation, more information, nuanced thought? Furthering a point of view?
Like I said, it's ironic, because you clearly have a pattern of starting on threads with a semblance of contribution then getting your feelings hurt. And if the past is any indication, you're going to get super worked up and pop-off.
Why can't you just resist when you have nothing to contribute?
How about we wait until we see what actually happens before daming him like many here are doing. The case was dropped once before. Theres a lot of holes and a lot of he said-she said narratives.
To call this the worst thing since Plaxico Burress for the Giants off the field was extreme and not even remotely close to being true. For someone say to "lock em' up", etc.... its like people are hoping he is guilty and gets suspended.
my post wasnt even meant to wards you. It was to Sundaytone, who has a history derailing any thread, pro/con, towards Eli. I was just getting amused of how defensive you were getting.
RE: These threads are less and less about actual content Â
I suspect Eli is guilty of this. My gut tell me that pro sports players have contempt for memorabilia dealers. I think what Eli likely did is done throughout sports commonly with regard to game worn items. That does not justify it. If I was a proud owner of game worn Eli memorabilia, I would be less than thrilled atm. Every time you looked at you would wonder if it was legit. That Sucks. If he gets convicted of this, we can kiss his HoF chances goodbye. The whole thing is shitty.
You guys accuse people of loving Eli Manning. That's normal behavior on a Giants board. He is our HOF QB that delivered two of the greatest sports moments of our lives.
You disguise it as objectivity, but some of you really, REALLY hate Eli Manning. No matter how many times you say "I love Eli, but....", the sum of your posts indicate you really dislike this man, to an unhealthy level. That's the abnormal behavior on this board, not the people that defend him. You may not realize it, but if you were to put all of your posts together and read them in their entirety, one would think you were a Cowboys fan talking about Eli.
I hesitate to even post this but it seems like some of you are actually rooting for Eli's name to be dragged through the mud at this point. Are you Giants fans? God damn.
my post wasnt even meant to wards you. It was to Sundaytone, who has a history derailing any thread, pro/con, towards Eli. I was just getting amused of how defensive you were getting.
And Dep - the funny part is, I feel the same way about you as you do Sundayatone.
have already convicted Eli. Let it play out. I’ll admit that I haven’t followed this case closely (at all), but I find it hard to believe that a guy makin $20 mill/yr is going to waste his time with this penny-ante shit.
If anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, its Eli. Â
I'll reserve all judgement on this until the facts are out. The guy has been about as standup of a person as anyone could be for his whole career. I just find this hard to belive.
I haven't read the whole thread, but is anyone convicting him?
I'm simply saying it will be highly disruptive if the top brass down to the equipment guys, and the QB have to testify in a civil trial as the season starts up.
Now of course if you refuse to read, that turns into a make-believe value judgement.
It would spit in the face of everything Eli Manning has been about since he entered the league - so, like I said in my first post, I will 100% reserve judgement until this is settled and facts are out because if anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, it absolutely is Eli.
I just hope none of it is true. It would definitely change my perception of him a little bit. Hopefully it's just another case of someone stupidly trying to make a buck off a wealthy athlete.
my post wasnt even meant to wards you. It was to Sundaytone, who has a history derailing any thread, pro/con, towards Eli. I was just getting amused of how defensive you were getting.
And Dep - the funny part is, I feel the same way about you as you do Sundayatone.
Ok, I was trying to be polite. I feel the same about you. Since I came back, I havent really defended Eli as I use to and have been a proponent of drafting a QB to replace him.
As far this topic, again lets not cruicify him until something happens. It doesnt seem like a big deal and only a select few are making this a bigger deal than it could be.
have already convicted Eli. Let it play out. I’ll admit that I haven’t followed this case closely (at all), but I find it hard to believe that a guy makin $20 mill/yr is going to waste his time with this penny-ante shit.
Being convicted in a civil suit would be quite the accomplishment.
Eli wasnt trying to make money off of this. SKiba was cleared of that already. It looked like he just didnt want to give up some game stuff that he promised. And if thats the case, this is what we call wasting tax payers dollars. If people bought fake things, compensate them ,and lets move on.
Sports memorbilia people are the worst and I feel they are the ones who made out more than anyone on the team.
It is easy to believe this, I bet the players don't see much difference in the jerseys(game worn/practice). Some guy they don't like dealing with, keeps asking for jerseys and they have someone make a couple look game worn. Very easy to believe. They buyer of game worn memorabilia buys it, looks game worn, they are good. A lawsuit comes along and gives them doubt about the authenticity. That sucks. That's the thing about this that sucks if true. The only people buying Eli game worn memorabilia are Giant fans. So when doing this, players are thinking about the dealer, it would be easy to pass off something to the slimeball, however, ultimately, this fraud would be committed against Giant fans. Even the staunchest Eli supporter would have to agree that is shitty to do to fans if true. I hope it is not true, it would change my feelings about him somewhat. We will see if the case gets settled or he loses. The fact that everyone is willing to go trial is Eli's favor. He certainly is acting and behaving like he is innocent.
Owning sports memorabilia in general -- and paying out the ass for something worn in-game by an athlete in particular -- is simply something I have no interest in, and I haven't even read much about this saga as a result. I just remember reading something about Eli saying, "find me something that can pass as game-worn" and I was like, okay, he probably means something whose appearance clearly indicates it was worn in a game, as opposed to a worn item that is still in very new condition because Ereck Flowers didn't play that game and Eli therefore wasn't nearly decapitated.
But IF Eli really was dishonest about this and willingly contributed to people receiving something altogether different from what they thought they were buying, and if others in the organization were complicit or in some other way enabling... well, it won't be fun to watch that saga unfold.
Owning sports memorabilia in general -- and paying out the ass for something worn in-game by an athlete in particular -- is simply something I have no interest in, and I haven't even read much about this saga as a result. I just remember reading something about Eli saying, "find me something that can pass as game-worn" and I was like, okay, he probably means something whose appearance clearly indicates it was worn in a game, as opposed to a worn item that is still in very new condition because Ereck Flowers didn't play that game and Eli therefore wasn't nearly decapitated.
Wondered about the definition of "game worn." If he wore the jersey in an exhibition game, is that considered "game-worn"? To a lesser extent, is a inter-squad scrimmage game considered "game-worn"? Wonder if there is an industry standard definition of the term....
But IF Eli really was dishonest about this and willingly contributed to people receiving something altogether different from what they thought they were buying, and if others in the organization were complicit or in some other way enabling... well, it won't be fun to watch that saga unfold.
Eli wasnt trying to make money off of this. SKiba was cleared of that already. It looked like he just didnt want to give up some game stuff that he promised. And if thats the case, this is what we call wasting tax payers dollars. If people bought fake things, compensate them ,and lets move on.
Sports memorbilia people are the worst and I feel they are the ones who made out more than anyone on the team.
It's also known as breach of contract. But tomato tomahto, I suppose.
Eli wasnt trying to make money off of this. SKiba was cleared of that already. It looked like he just didnt want to give up some game stuff that he promised. And if thats the case, this is what we call wasting tax payers dollars. If people bought fake things, compensate them ,and lets move on.
Sports memorbilia people are the worst and I feel they are the ones who made out more than anyone on the team.
It's also known as breach of contract. But tomato tomahto, I suppose.
Yeah I get that. Maybe a lawyer can answer but would t the people who sold it have a case, not the people who bought it.
Common law fraud is a decently hard burden to prove -- works in favor and against Manning.
Chances are he and the Giants are not getting held liable -- but that after 4-5 years in the courts and an admitted Giants fan as a judge no less, that this is going to trial, likely means a tedious drawn out trial.
From reports sounds like the Skibas and the dealers and everyone involved acted like shitheads. The Giants and Manning aren't going to come out looking good either, and both Manning and Mara are going to get called to testify.
Mara essentially acknowledged what happened and slapped the Skibas hand's for this nonsense already, he should just pay up and make this go away.
I'd still wager nothing happens to Manning by the NFL, but it's going to be a pretty shitty story as told by the plaintiff's team.
You must get the irony of *you* saying this.
hello friend
Thoughtful and splendid contribution we're accustomed to amigo.
Quote:
Like I said. Same people every time.
Thoughtful and splendid contribution we're accustomed to amigo.
I agree.
Couldn't agree more for both practical and personal reasons. I could easily see him losing 4 games if it's incontrovertibly proven he was part of a fraud. And if Mara didn't do much to look into it, I could see the team losing a pick.
I've never found Manning a particularly likable guy, but he's certainly appeared to be a very decent guy and it's pretty tough to imagine a guy sitting on a 100M in earnings wrapped up in this.
This. Who cares? Owning sports memorabilia can be a fun hobby, and I'm not disparaging it for those who enjoy it, but there are bigger things in this world to get upset about.
He may face a civil suit but nothing criminal.
Agreed.
If the case was dropped due to insufficient evidence, kinda think his lawyer made a good argument the couldn't be proven fake, or at least a pattern of game items.
If a deal with the U.S. attorney to get the bigger fish, even if that one item was a fake, then have to prove Eli and
others in the organizational knew. Sounds like the argument of the 'joking' text from TB to move he equipment guy that he likes the ball a little smaller. This maybe the equipment man took it on his own to deflate the ball. Call guys if true.
15 months of he said/he said gets us to July '19; some delays/unavailabilitiesget to October, then request delay due to season to post February 2020 Eli retires; maybe please bargains, offers restitution w/o admission of guilt, ends up the Pets Rose of football in the court of public opinion re HOF. All if guilty.
But we get thru '18.
Does Autocorrect suck or what? Smh.
Important to note the scam the Skibas appear to have been wrapped up in, is different than what Manning allegedly did. Manning owed a dealer gear, and asked for something that could pass as game worn.
The equipment guys are accused of a whole operation of spinning up fake shit.
I'm surprised Mara just didn't pay for this to go away.
Let's please not let Josh Brown be our threshold for the point where bad behavior becomes unacceptable. The line should come far before that.
He may face a civil suit but nothing criminal.
He may have participated in a scheme to defraud people who do (legally and for a living) take money for the memorabilia, and by extension, defrauded our fellow fans who bought fake memorabilia.
At bare minimum, it was a selfish act on his part if he wanted to keep his own gear.
He may face a civil suit but nothing criminal.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, this is a civil suit.
Quote:
Guy, I believe he broke a contract but not the law. I doubt he will ever set foot in the court.
He may face a civil suit but nothing criminal.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, this is a civil suit.
It's clearly stated in the linked article and really in every article this is a civil case. Almost impossible to miss if one is actually interested in a conversation on the topic.
Same people, every thread.
He has not been found guilty of a thing and probably will never see the court room. And a really good chance he will not be disciplined. Sorry to disappoint you.
Quote:
Josh Brown did.
Let's please not let Josh Brown be our threshold for the point where bad behavior becomes unacceptable. The line should come far before that.
This was a response to someone saying Eli, who may have passed off fake gear was doing something that was the worst off field things since Burress. I find beating your wife way worse. I find driving drunk way worse.
Someone wanted to continue on with something that may not be there.
I do feel getting the owner deposed, the FBI involved, and a potential trial where many of the Giants brass might have to testify more disruptive than the few week blip Brown garnered, and the one day blip Diehl garnered.
Honestly, what's the value of your "same people every thread" comment? Is it bringing value to conversation, more information, nuanced thought? Furthering a point of view?
Like I said, it's ironic, because you clearly have a pattern of starting on threads with a semblance of contribution then getting your feelings hurt. And if the past is any indication, you're going to get super worked up and pop-off.
Why can't you just resist when you have nothing to contribute?
I do feel getting the owner deposed, the FBI involved, and a potential trial where many of the Giants brass might have to testify more disruptive than the few week blip Brown garnered, and the one day blip Diehl garnered.
Honestly, what's the value of your "same people every thread" comment? Is it bringing value to conversation, more information, nuanced thought? Furthering a point of view?
Like I said, it's ironic, because you clearly have a pattern of starting on threads with a semblance of contribution then getting your feelings hurt. And if the past is any indication, you're going to get super worked up and pop-off.
Why can't you just resist when you have nothing to contribute?
How about we wait until we see what actually happens before daming him like many here are doing. The case was dropped once before. Theres a lot of holes and a lot of he said-she said narratives.
To call this the worst thing since Plaxico Burress for the Giants off the field was extreme and not even remotely close to being true. For someone say to "lock em' up", etc.... its like people are hoping he is guilty and gets suspended.
I am not popping off. You on the other hand....
Then go somewhere else and see some debate by people who breathe through their noses.
There is so many holes in this fight that I can see it being dismissed rather quickly. It already has been once.
The beef is with the guy selling it. He does have a responsibility of making sure its legit as well.
You guys accuse people of loving Eli Manning. That's normal behavior on a Giants board. He is our HOF QB that delivered two of the greatest sports moments of our lives.
You disguise it as objectivity, but some of you really, REALLY hate Eli Manning. No matter how many times you say "I love Eli, but....", the sum of your posts indicate you really dislike this man, to an unhealthy level. That's the abnormal behavior on this board, not the people that defend him. You may not realize it, but if you were to put all of your posts together and read them in their entirety, one would think you were a Cowboys fan talking about Eli.
I hesitate to even post this but it seems like some of you are actually rooting for Eli's name to be dragged through the mud at this point. Are you Giants fans? God damn.
And Dep - the funny part is, I feel the same way about you as you do Sundayatone.
I'm simply saying it will be highly disruptive if the top brass down to the equipment guys, and the QB have to testify in a civil trial as the season starts up.
Now of course if you refuse to read, that turns into a make-believe value judgement.
I just hope none of it is true. It would definitely change my perception of him a little bit. Hopefully it's just another case of someone stupidly trying to make a buck off a wealthy athlete.
Quote:
my post wasnt even meant to wards you. It was to Sundaytone, who has a history derailing any thread, pro/con, towards Eli. I was just getting amused of how defensive you were getting.
And Dep - the funny part is, I feel the same way about you as you do Sundayatone.
Ok, I was trying to be polite. I feel the same about you. Since I came back, I havent really defended Eli as I use to and have been a proponent of drafting a QB to replace him.
As far this topic, again lets not cruicify him until something happens. It doesnt seem like a big deal and only a select few are making this a bigger deal than it could be.
Being convicted in a civil suit would be quite the accomplishment.
Sports memorbilia people are the worst and I feel they are the ones who made out more than anyone on the team.
But IF Eli really was dishonest about this and willingly contributed to people receiving something altogether different from what they thought they were buying, and if others in the organization were complicit or in some other way enabling... well, it won't be fun to watch that saga unfold.
Wondered about the definition of "game worn." If he wore the jersey in an exhibition game, is that considered "game-worn"? To a lesser extent, is a inter-squad scrimmage game considered "game-worn"? Wonder if there is an industry standard definition of the term....
But IF Eli really was dishonest about this and willingly contributed to people receiving something altogether different from what they thought they were buying, and if others in the organization were complicit or in some other way enabling... well, it won't be fun to watch that saga unfold.
Sports memorbilia people are the worst and I feel they are the ones who made out more than anyone on the team.
It's also known as breach of contract. But tomato tomahto, I suppose.
Quote:
Eli wasnt trying to make money off of this. SKiba was cleared of that already. It looked like he just didnt want to give up some game stuff that he promised. And if thats the case, this is what we call wasting tax payers dollars. If people bought fake things, compensate them ,and lets move on.
Sports memorbilia people are the worst and I feel they are the ones who made out more than anyone on the team.
It's also known as breach of contract. But tomato tomahto, I suppose.
Yeah I get that. Maybe a lawyer can answer but would t the people who sold it have a case, not the people who bought it.
Chances are he and the Giants are not getting held liable -- but that after 4-5 years in the courts and an admitted Giants fan as a judge no less, that this is going to trial, likely means a tedious drawn out trial.
From reports sounds like the Skibas and the dealers and everyone involved acted like shitheads. The Giants and Manning aren't going to come out looking good either, and both Manning and Mara are going to get called to testify.
Mara essentially acknowledged what happened and slapped the Skibas hand's for this nonsense already, he should just pay up and make this go away.
I'd still wager nothing happens to Manning by the NFL, but it's going to be a pretty shitty story as told by the plaintiff's team.