Still think Eli has one last run. Barkley would help us the most over the next two years. Drafting Darnold means we aren’t winning anything for quite a while.
It's common sense folks: your franchise QB is 37 years old and will turn 38 in early January. He also has only 2 years left on his deal. It's time. You let the kid watch and learn for a year and then you cut bait with your 39 year old starter via either trade or a flat out release at the end of the 2018 season.
Your kid QB will have benefited by watching for a year and then you go on being relevant for another decade plus. In an ideal world you wait another year, but this is as close as you get to seamless transition as is possible now. Do it and don't look back, especially if Darnold is there at 2. He's the ideal NYG player to succeed Eli.
What's all the hand-ringing about? I swear, some of you deserve to see the Danny Kannells or Kent Grahams of the world QB your team for a few years before you can appreciate how lucky we are to be in this situation. You can't pick a RB if a franchise QB is there. I don't care who your vet QB is. The greatest QB who ever lived, Joe Montana, was traded. Eli isn't Montana. He can be traded or cut too. The end of a player's tenure with their club is seldom one of their own choosing. Most don't go out on their own terms like LT did. Deal with it.
Darnold because he plays the most sought after position in pro sports.
But I have been saying this all off-season... second pick.. two-man draft board.. Darnold is 1A, Barkley is 1B... we are getting one of these guys on Thursday night if I were GM... if they both are on the board at 2? I take Darnold without hesitation.. that said I’d bet my house that Cleveland drafts Darnold first overall... not buying this Josh Allen number one overall bullshit
It's common sense folks: your franchise QB is 37 years old and will turn 38 in early January. He also has only 2 years left on his deal. It's time. You let the kid watch and learn for a year and then you cut bait with your 39 year old starter via either trade or a flat out release at the end of the 2018 season.
Your kid QB will have benefited by watching for a year and then you go on being relevant for another decade plus. In an ideal world you wait another year, but this is as close as you get to seamless transition as is possible now. Do it and don't look back, especially if Darnold is there at 2. He's the ideal NYG player to succeed Eli.
What's all the hand-ringing about? I swear, some of you deserve to see the Danny Kannells or Kent Grahams of the world QB your team for a few years before you can appreciate how lucky we are to be in this situation. You can't pick a RB if a franchise QB is there. I don't care who your vet QB is. The greatest QB who ever lived, Joe Montana, was traded. Eli isn't Montana. He can be traded or cut too. The end of a player's tenure with their club is seldom one of their own choosing. Most don't go out on their own terms like LT did. Deal with it.
Actually Strahan went out on his best terms. Like Koufax, he left at the pinnacle . LT went out floundering in the sand at Candlestick . Everything else you wrote is the best piece this year . Easily .
It's common sense folks: your franchise QB is 37 years old and will turn 38 in early January. He also has only 2 years left on his deal. It's time. You let the kid watch and learn for a year and then you cut bait with your 39 year old starter via either trade or a flat out release at the end of the 2018 season.
Your kid QB will have benefited by watching for a year and then you go on being relevant for another decade plus. In an ideal world you wait another year, but this is as close as you get to seamless transition as is possible now. Do it and don't look back, especially if Darnold is there at 2. He's the ideal NYG player to succeed Eli.
What's all the hand-ringing about? I swear, some of you deserve to see the Danny Kannells or Kent Grahams of the world QB your team for a few years before you can appreciate how lucky we are to be in this situation. You can't pick a RB if a franchise QB is there. I don't care who your vet QB is. The greatest QB who ever lived, Joe Montana, was traded. Eli isn't Montana. He can be traded or cut too. The end of a player's tenure with their club is seldom one of their own choosing. Most don't go out on their own terms like LT did. Deal with it.
Perfect post, Optimus. Even if Barkley turns out to be a stud, who is going to be QBing this team in a couple years? What if Eli's decline is real, and he is not good THIS year? We'll look like our team with Tiki but we won't be grooming a young QB. Remember those years?
We just suffered through a 3-13 season, and we have a chance to draft a franchise QB. The Colts had to make a tough decision, and they cut Peyton Manning and drafted Luck. Yes, Peyton was coming off a neck injury, and Luck is a better prospect than these guys, but you don't bypass the chance to draft a franchise QB for a RB. Many of the best RBs - David Johnson, LeVeon Bell, Kareem Hunt, Alvin Kamara, LeSean McCoy, etc. - were drafted after 1st round. You do not need to spend a top 2 pick on a RB to get great value at the RB position. It's been proven time and time again.
It's common sense folks: your franchise QB is 37 years old and will turn 38 in early January. He also has only 2 years left on his deal. It's time. You let the kid watch and learn for a year and then you cut bait with your 39 year old starter via either trade or a flat out release at the end of the 2018 season.
Your kid QB will have benefited by watching for a year and then you go on being relevant for another decade plus. In an ideal world you wait another year, but this is as close as you get to seamless transition as is possible now. Do it and don't look back, especially if Darnold is there at 2. He's the ideal NYG player to succeed Eli.
What's all the hand-ringing about? I swear, some of you deserve to see the Danny Kannells or Kent Grahams of the world QB your team for a few years before you can appreciate how lucky we are to be in this situation. You can't pick a RB if a franchise QB is there. I don't care who your vet QB is. The greatest QB who ever lived, Joe Montana, was traded. Eli isn't Montana. He can be traded or cut too. The end of a player's tenure with their club is seldom one of their own choosing. Most don't go out on their own terms like LT did. Deal with it.
I witnessed the Dave Brown/Kent Graham/Danny Kannel years and remember how awful they were. We wasted some damn good defenses back then. That being said, no one knows how good any of these QB’s really are. I wouldn’t call any of them a “sure” thing, not that there even is such a thing. That being said, if you are a person that thinks Eli has a few years left, which I happen to be, you typically lean Barkley or Chubb or Nelson. If you think Eli is toast, then you gamble on a QB. It’s that simple.
If that's how you feel.....fair enough. My issue is you aren't facing reality. If Eli plays well next season, and I believe he will, he will be allowed to finish out his contract at a minimum. There will be no cutting bait. There in lies my problem. I think you guys ignore a kid, who's the number 2 pick in the draft, sitting for two years is absurd imo. That's why I don't want a qb. There all in with eli and winning now. If you disagree w the mindset fine. My problem is a lot here seem to ignore it. Most likely eli is here for 2 more seasons. Under that reality I can't agree on going qb.
On Barclay, this isn’t the era of Jim Brown or Earl Campbell. They don’t run the ball 60% of the time. Not that Barclay would hold up against that type of pounding -he wouldn’t . But the pick would be asymmetrical to the current trend in the league. The six running backs who saw the ball in the Super Bowl,combined , will probably be making less money than Barclay.
Gettleman has his chance to achieve greatness for this organization , which sadly has lost its way. I give him support but not blind loyalty . And if he fucks this one up, he’s going to be hearing about it .
I think the times are changing, and the old mantra about RB's is different. Picks like Gurley, Fournette, Melvin Gordon, and others have made a big difference to teams. You can also throw in Bell and Dalvin Cook (both 2nd rounders).
What happens if Eli's decline is real, which is what many players around the league said? What then? We have no QB, unless Webb bucks the trend and becomes a franchise QB from beyond the 1st round. If he doesn't, we are screwed.
It is not smart team building to bank on your 37 year old QB to have a rebound season. You also make it seem like if we pass on Barkley there is no way we can get a RB later in the draft that can help the offense. I just don't get it. If we don't pick a QB here, and Eli is really finished, we will either: a) have to suck badly enough to be in a position to pick a franchise QB soon; or b) trade a boatload of picks to move up to get one, much like Buffalo is trying to do (possibly with no success).
What then? The worst place you can be in football is without a franchise QB. Plain and simple. Even if you think Eli can play for two more years, it is still smart to hedge your bet and pick a young QB you can build around for after he is gone. It's just the way you build a team. You don't build a team by picking a RB with the second overall pick.
It's common sense folks: your franchise QB is 37 years old and will turn 38 in early January. He also has only 2 years left on his deal. It's time. You let the kid watch and learn for a year and then you cut bait with your 39 year old starter via either trade or a flat out release at the end of the 2018 season.
Your kid QB will have benefited by watching for a year and then you go on being relevant for another decade plus. In an ideal world you wait another year, but this is as close as you get to seamless transition as is possible now. Do it and don't look back, especially if Darnold is there at 2. He's the ideal NYG player to succeed Eli.
What's all the hand-ringing about? I swear, some of you deserve to see the Danny Kannells or Kent Grahams of the world QB your team for a few years before you can appreciate how lucky we are to be in this situation. You can't pick a RB if a franchise QB is there. I don't care who your vet QB is. The greatest QB who ever lived, Joe Montana, was traded. Eli isn't Montana. He can be traded or cut too. The end of a player's tenure with their club is seldom one of their own choosing. Most don't go out on their own terms like LT did. Deal with it.
Using Joe Montana as your example backfires. Your so-called "greatest QB who ever lived" was picked with the last pick in the 3rd round. Meanwhile, the 3rd overall pick that same year was another QB named Jack Thompson who was put in your perfect situation - he had a chance to sit and learn behind veteran Ken Anderson. Did this turn out better for the Bengals who followed "you always draft a QB" at the top of the draft philosophy?
What happens if Eli's decline is real, which is what many players around the league said? What then? We have no QB, unless Webb bucks the trend and becomes a franchise QB from beyond the 1st round. If he doesn't, we are screwed.
It is not smart team building to bank on your 37 year old QB to have a rebound season. You also make it seem like if we pass on Barkley there is no way we can get a RB later in the draft that can help the offense. I just don't get it. If we don't pick a QB here, and Eli is really finished, we will either: a) have to suck badly enough to be in a position to pick a franchise QB soon; or b) trade a boatload of picks to move up to get one, much like Buffalo is trying to do (possibly with no success).
What then? The worst place you can be in football is without a franchise QB. Plain and simple. Even if you think Eli can play for two more years, it is still smart to hedge your bet and pick a young QB you can build around for after he is gone. It's just the way you build a team. You don't build a team by picking a RB with the second overall pick.
As i said in the other thread, In theory, a franchise QB is the way to go. But what if the Giants are not vested in any of these supposed top QBs? What if they think Webb is or will be the heir-apparent to Eli? Or that there’s a future QB in the later rounds? Doesn’t matter what WE want, it’s what the Giants have assessed.
As to the Shurmur “waste,” he did get very good mileage out of Keenum and Foles before that.
Taking the highest rated player in the ENTIRE draft at 2 (Barkley) is by no means a dumb move, especially given that he’s an every down player that, combined with the receiver talent, will benefit, Eli, the O in general and a rested D that will be called upon to come up big late in games
By not going qb you give Shurmer a year to evaluate Webb. If he doesn't like him you get a qb then. Forget what I think. The giants think eli can play. If there right taking a kid to sit 2 years is bad asset management. Were moving forward w eli. That's why I want bpa.
What happens if Eli's decline is real, which is what many players around the league said? What then? We have no QB, unless Webb bucks the trend and becomes a franchise QB from beyond the 1st round. If he doesn't, we are screwed.
It is not smart team building to bank on your 37 year old QB to have a rebound season. You also make it seem like if we pass on Barkley there is no way we can get a RB later in the draft that can help the offense. I just don't get it. If we don't pick a QB here, and Eli is really finished, we will either: a) have to suck badly enough to be in a position to pick a franchise QB soon; or b) trade a boatload of picks to move up to get one, much like Buffalo is trying to do (possibly with no success).
What then? The worst place you can be in football is without a franchise QB. Plain and simple. Even if you think Eli can play for two more years, it is still smart to hedge your bet and pick a young QB you can build around for after he is gone. It's just the way you build a team. You don't build a team by picking a RB with the second overall pick.
As i said in the other thread, In theory, a franchise QB is the way to go. But what if the Giants are not vested in any of these supposed top QBs? What if they think Webb is or will be the heir-apparent to Eli? Or that there’s a future QB in the later rounds? Doesn’t matter what WE want, it’s what the Giants have assessed.
As to the Shurmur “waste,” he did get very good mileage out of Keenum and Foles before that.
Taking the highest rated player in the ENTIRE draft at 2 (Barkley) is by no means a dumb move, especially given that he’s an every down player that, combined with the receiver talent, will benefit, Eli, the O in general and a rested D that will be called upon to come up big late in games
Just look at the GBN study on the use of top 3 picks over the past 10 years. Almost all of them have been used on QBs, LTs, and DEs. Exactly 1 - ONE - has been used on a RB. That RB - Trent Richardson - was a colossal bust. I'm not saying Barkley will be a bust. I'm just saying there is a reason that teams don't use top picks on RBs.
I'm sure you'll retort that two teams used the 4 pick on RBs. GBN said even expanding its study to the top 10 picks, QBs, LTs, and DEs are overrepresented while RBs (amongst others) are underrepresented in the top 10.
Let's put it this way: who would the Rams give up if forced to give up one: Goff or Gurley? They'd give up Gurley in a heartbeat. No question. And other than his first couple games, Gurley really, really struggled without Goff on the field. (And until McCoy came and revamped that system.) Nonetheless, you need a young QB to groom, and there is nothing to suggest Webb is that guy. When asked about Webb in his initial press conference, Shurmur said they had him as a draftable prospect. Not exactly glowing praise.
seem oblivious to the fact that the Giants have been trying to patch holes for "one more run" for years now and as a result have been one of the worst run teams in the league since the 2011 run. Not that I care, but much of the media is laughing at the Giants as a result. A 3 win team with a 37 year old quarterback who won 3 games last season is putting all their resources towards winning in the next two seasons. I don't see how anyone could a look at the current depth chart and their schedule and not laugh at that.
Eric has warned about this since Gettlemen was a candidate for Reese's job. I was actually optimistic. I didn't think Gettlemen was dumb enough to believe this team can win a super bowl in the next two years after flipping on Eli's games from the past two seasons and taking a look at the roster. When they traded for Ogletree I rolled my eyes at the media criticizing them for trying to win now since he's 26. When they traded JPP I was excited because it meant I was right about the Giants not actually being this stupid. The Ogletree trade I thought was indicative of nothing, Stewart was signed to help turn around the locker room for a year, and Solder they believe can start at LT into his mid-30's.
As we've drawn closer to the draft, every indication out there suggests that they're taking a running back at #2 overall and really are gearing up for 1 more run. I'm still very hopeful that that's wrong but if that is what comes to fruition, I'll finally admit that Eric was right and the media is spot on. With the Browns seemingly turning things around under Dorsey, the Jets making intelligent moves the past couple of off-seasons, you'd be hard pressed to find an organization as poorly run as the Giants in the league right now IF they really are as stupid as it seems.
I respect you but don't agree. I don't think Elis in decline. I think he's going to show a lot of you guys he has a lot of gas in the tank. If he plays well the kid qb will sit for 2 years. How does that make sense?
I do have a question though. I you put the initials WR in front of Barkley, does that change anyone’ s perception?
I'm in the QB with the first round pick boat -- unless the Giants really don't think that the player available to be picked is a franchise QB. I personally don't think that's possible bc I think both Darnold and Rosen are, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Giants really only like one of them.
That said, if the Giants don't believe that the QB available to them is a franchise QB, and if they don't trade down, then the only player I'd consider with the #2 pick is Barkley. I have my doubts about how good he'll ultimately be -- I'm worried by his lack of inside running prowess -- but in terms of talent, I think he's the only non-QB super blue chip talent. Maybe Nelson, but you just can't select a guard with your first #2 overall pick in 30 years. And as good as he may look, there's no such thing as a can't miss prospect, not even at guard. I don't put Chubb in that group. I think Chubb will be solid, but he's not in the same category as Miles Garrett, Kalil Mack, Von Miller, Joey Bosa.
you’re so fixated on your point that you fail to take this in: What if the Giants are lukewarm on the projected top QBs? Why would they draft one at 2? Makes no sense. They are going to go the non-QB route if they’re meh on them. Period.
RE: Selecting a RB at #2 overall is debatable all by itself Â
Selecting a RB at #2 with a 37-year old starting QB is highly questionable
Selecting a RB at #2 with that 37-year old starting QB coming off several obvious seasons of decline is egregious...
I’m not saying Eli hasn’t declined at all, it’s natural to decline over time however I wouldn’t say the decline is obvious. He’s been playing in an offense which frankly doesn’t match his skill set, and he is a play action QB with a line and running game that no one has feared in several years. It’s impossible to accurately judge him in that shitty of a landscape. To me Eli was the least of their problems offensively the last few years, but the QB always gets the blame. He’s not the type to throw his line and coaching staff under the bus, so he has acted as the whipping boy for quite some time now.
I respect you but don't agree. I don't think Elis in decline. I think he's going to show a lot of you guys he has a lot of gas in the tank. If he plays well the kid qb will sit for 2 years. How does that make sense?
Tell that to the Packers. Just 3 losing seasons since Favre's first full season in 1992. One was this past year which wouldn't have been one if Rodgers didn't go down.
Its a different argument you make. I think the giants will be good this year. If you don't fine. Disagree with the direction of the team. Time will tell who's right but they are trying to win now
By not going qb you give Shurmer a year to evaluate Webb. If he doesn't like him you get a qb then. Forget what I think. The giants think eli can play. If there right taking a kid to sit 2 years is bad asset management. Were moving forward w eli. That's why I want bpa.
I seriously have no idea how to say this differently. I don't care if they think Eli can play. That's fine. They have to acknowledge that at 37, he may not be around that much longer. They also have to acknowledge the fact that maybe, just maybe, he has already started to decline, and his poor play from the past two years is a mirage.
Gettleman acknowledged this in his press conference. He said he has to balance the long term with the short term. When you have a 37 year old QB - especially one who unequivocally has played poorly the past few seasons - you absolutely have to pick a young QB. Eli is not 27 now. He's 37. You're not deciding whether to replace him for poor play; you're deciding whether to replace him due to old age (and poor play). Webb does not factor into this equation. When picking at 2, you don't pick a RB; you pick a QB to groom behind Eli. No one, absolutely no one, will care if the guy sits for two years if you find the next Rodgers. Oh, and guess what? If Eli really is bad - then his career with the Giants is over after next year, and he'll likely be benched midseason, particularly now that his streak is over.
Whether the Giants think Eli can still play and drafting a young QB to groom at 2 are not mutually exclusive. You can still get other people in later rounds to help now. They also got guys to help on the line in FA. They addressed needs in FA to help now. Now, you address the long term QB need in the draft at 2.
Fair enough. You think a #2 pick in the draft could sit 2 years. I don't. In today's climate these kids need to play to maximize the fact initially they make no money. I'm not on board with a kid sitting and as long as there committed to eli lets try to maximize our resources.
Who's won more super bowls in the last 12 years? Giants and Gettleman know what there doing
Not disagreeing with you, but where would the Giants be if they had stuck with Kerry Collins and drafting someone like Sean Taylor or Kellen Winslow Jr. instead of moving up and getting Eli Manning?
And that's the point of all this. They identified that Collins was not good enough to win a SB. Eli is nearing the end and is likely not good enough to win (or won't be soon). You'd think Gettleman knows this. And remember, when the Giants drafted Eli, they signed Warner and did not start Eli immediately. It was not until the middle of the next season that they started Eli.
Fair enough. You think a #2 pick in the draft could sit 2 years. I don't. In today's climate these kids need to play to maximize the fact initially they make no money. I'm not on board with a kid sitting and as long as there committed to eli lets try to maximize our resources.
Also, I don't think Eli's play is going to warrant sitting a kid two years. I'll be pleasantly surprised if that happens. Frankly, I think Eli is going to struggle next year, and the kid is going to replace Eli midseason. I think this is Eli's last season in NY.
A few weeks ago I thought it was a sure fire thing that the Giants go QB. Now I'm not so sure. The media has zero idea what DG is going to do. That's a fact.
I personally would love to trade down to 4-5 range and pick up Mayfield and some other picks.
The best player in college football was Baker Mayfield. PFF has him as the highest rated QB they have ever rated in college (I think that's what I read)... I think he's the perfect guy to sit and mature behind Eli a year or two.
It's a crap shoot. There is some great RB talent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Lonk - ( New Window )
What is this, the #175th thread on this exact topic?
For Fuchs sake.
My favorite player in the draft is Nelson but they won't take him at 2.
I'll be stoked if they take Barkley and happy with Darnold.
Can't wait for Thursday
What is this, the #175th thread on this exact topic?
For Fuchs sake.
Then why open the thread (for fuchs sake)?
Your kid QB will have benefited by watching for a year and then you go on being relevant for another decade plus. In an ideal world you wait another year, but this is as close as you get to seamless transition as is possible now. Do it and don't look back, especially if Darnold is there at 2. He's the ideal NYG player to succeed Eli.
What's all the hand-ringing about? I swear, some of you deserve to see the Danny Kannells or Kent Grahams of the world QB your team for a few years before you can appreciate how lucky we are to be in this situation. You can't pick a RB if a franchise QB is there. I don't care who your vet QB is. The greatest QB who ever lived, Joe Montana, was traded. Eli isn't Montana. He can be traded or cut too. The end of a player's tenure with their club is seldom one of their own choosing. Most don't go out on their own terms like LT did. Deal with it.
But I have been saying this all off-season... second pick.. two-man draft board.. Darnold is 1A, Barkley is 1B... we are getting one of these guys on Thursday night if I were GM... if they both are on the board at 2? I take Darnold without hesitation.. that said I’d bet my house that Cleveland drafts Darnold first overall... not buying this Josh Allen number one overall bullshit
Your kid QB will have benefited by watching for a year and then you go on being relevant for another decade plus. In an ideal world you wait another year, but this is as close as you get to seamless transition as is possible now. Do it and don't look back, especially if Darnold is there at 2. He's the ideal NYG player to succeed Eli.
What's all the hand-ringing about? I swear, some of you deserve to see the Danny Kannells or Kent Grahams of the world QB your team for a few years before you can appreciate how lucky we are to be in this situation. You can't pick a RB if a franchise QB is there. I don't care who your vet QB is. The greatest QB who ever lived, Joe Montana, was traded. Eli isn't Montana. He can be traded or cut too. The end of a player's tenure with their club is seldom one of their own choosing. Most don't go out on their own terms like LT did. Deal with it.
Actually Strahan went out on his best terms. Like Koufax, he left at the pinnacle . LT went out floundering in the sand at Candlestick . Everything else you wrote is the best piece this year . Easily .
Your kid QB will have benefited by watching for a year and then you go on being relevant for another decade plus. In an ideal world you wait another year, but this is as close as you get to seamless transition as is possible now. Do it and don't look back, especially if Darnold is there at 2. He's the ideal NYG player to succeed Eli.
What's all the hand-ringing about? I swear, some of you deserve to see the Danny Kannells or Kent Grahams of the world QB your team for a few years before you can appreciate how lucky we are to be in this situation. You can't pick a RB if a franchise QB is there. I don't care who your vet QB is. The greatest QB who ever lived, Joe Montana, was traded. Eli isn't Montana. He can be traded or cut too. The end of a player's tenure with their club is seldom one of their own choosing. Most don't go out on their own terms like LT did. Deal with it.
Perfect post, Optimus. Even if Barkley turns out to be a stud, who is going to be QBing this team in a couple years? What if Eli's decline is real, and he is not good THIS year? We'll look like our team with Tiki but we won't be grooming a young QB. Remember those years?
We just suffered through a 3-13 season, and we have a chance to draft a franchise QB. The Colts had to make a tough decision, and they cut Peyton Manning and drafted Luck. Yes, Peyton was coming off a neck injury, and Luck is a better prospect than these guys, but you don't bypass the chance to draft a franchise QB for a RB. Many of the best RBs - David Johnson, LeVeon Bell, Kareem Hunt, Alvin Kamara, LeSean McCoy, etc. - were drafted after 1st round. You do not need to spend a top 2 pick on a RB to get great value at the RB position. It's been proven time and time again.
Your kid QB will have benefited by watching for a year and then you go on being relevant for another decade plus. In an ideal world you wait another year, but this is as close as you get to seamless transition as is possible now. Do it and don't look back, especially if Darnold is there at 2. He's the ideal NYG player to succeed Eli.
What's all the hand-ringing about? I swear, some of you deserve to see the Danny Kannells or Kent Grahams of the world QB your team for a few years before you can appreciate how lucky we are to be in this situation. You can't pick a RB if a franchise QB is there. I don't care who your vet QB is. The greatest QB who ever lived, Joe Montana, was traded. Eli isn't Montana. He can be traded or cut too. The end of a player's tenure with their club is seldom one of their own choosing. Most don't go out on their own terms like LT did. Deal with it.
I witnessed the Dave Brown/Kent Graham/Danny Kannel years and remember how awful they were. We wasted some damn good defenses back then. That being said, no one knows how good any of these QB’s really are. I wouldn’t call any of them a “sure” thing, not that there even is such a thing. That being said, if you are a person that thinks Eli has a few years left, which I happen to be, you typically lean Barkley or Chubb or Nelson. If you think Eli is toast, then you gamble on a QB. It’s that simple.
Gettleman has his chance to achieve greatness for this organization , which sadly has lost its way. I give him support but not blind loyalty . And if he fucks this one up, he’s going to be hearing about it .
I agree, but if its common sense then why no consensus on BBI? Lack of common sense by guys like you & me or BBI...?
It is not smart team building to bank on your 37 year old QB to have a rebound season. You also make it seem like if we pass on Barkley there is no way we can get a RB later in the draft that can help the offense. I just don't get it. If we don't pick a QB here, and Eli is really finished, we will either: a) have to suck badly enough to be in a position to pick a franchise QB soon; or b) trade a boatload of picks to move up to get one, much like Buffalo is trying to do (possibly with no success).
What then? The worst place you can be in football is without a franchise QB. Plain and simple. Even if you think Eli can play for two more years, it is still smart to hedge your bet and pick a young QB you can build around for after he is gone. It's just the way you build a team. You don't build a team by picking a RB with the second overall pick.
Your kid QB will have benefited by watching for a year and then you go on being relevant for another decade plus. In an ideal world you wait another year, but this is as close as you get to seamless transition as is possible now. Do it and don't look back, especially if Darnold is there at 2. He's the ideal NYG player to succeed Eli.
What's all the hand-ringing about? I swear, some of you deserve to see the Danny Kannells or Kent Grahams of the world QB your team for a few years before you can appreciate how lucky we are to be in this situation. You can't pick a RB if a franchise QB is there. I don't care who your vet QB is. The greatest QB who ever lived, Joe Montana, was traded. Eli isn't Montana. He can be traded or cut too. The end of a player's tenure with their club is seldom one of their own choosing. Most don't go out on their own terms like LT did. Deal with it.
Using Joe Montana as your example backfires. Your so-called "greatest QB who ever lived" was picked with the last pick in the 3rd round. Meanwhile, the 3rd overall pick that same year was another QB named Jack Thompson who was put in your perfect situation - he had a chance to sit and learn behind veteran Ken Anderson. Did this turn out better for the Bengals who followed "you always draft a QB" at the top of the draft philosophy?
It is not smart team building to bank on your 37 year old QB to have a rebound season. You also make it seem like if we pass on Barkley there is no way we can get a RB later in the draft that can help the offense. I just don't get it. If we don't pick a QB here, and Eli is really finished, we will either: a) have to suck badly enough to be in a position to pick a franchise QB soon; or b) trade a boatload of picks to move up to get one, much like Buffalo is trying to do (possibly with no success).
What then? The worst place you can be in football is without a franchise QB. Plain and simple. Even if you think Eli can play for two more years, it is still smart to hedge your bet and pick a young QB you can build around for after he is gone. It's just the way you build a team. You don't build a team by picking a RB with the second overall pick.
As i said in the other thread, In theory, a franchise QB is the way to go. But what if the Giants are not vested in any of these supposed top QBs? What if they think Webb is or will be the heir-apparent to Eli? Or that there’s a future QB in the later rounds? Doesn’t matter what WE want, it’s what the Giants have assessed.
As to the Shurmur “waste,” he did get very good mileage out of Keenum and Foles before that.
Taking the highest rated player in the ENTIRE draft at 2 (Barkley) is by no means a dumb move, especially given that he’s an every down player that, combined with the receiver talent, will benefit, Eli, the O in general and a rested D that will be called upon to come up big late in games
Selecting a RB at #2 with that 37-year old starting QB coming off several obvious seasons of decline is egregious...
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What happens if Eli's decline is real, which is what many players around the league said? What then? We have no QB, unless Webb bucks the trend and becomes a franchise QB from beyond the 1st round. If he doesn't, we are screwed.
It is not smart team building to bank on your 37 year old QB to have a rebound season. You also make it seem like if we pass on Barkley there is no way we can get a RB later in the draft that can help the offense. I just don't get it. If we don't pick a QB here, and Eli is really finished, we will either: a) have to suck badly enough to be in a position to pick a franchise QB soon; or b) trade a boatload of picks to move up to get one, much like Buffalo is trying to do (possibly with no success).
What then? The worst place you can be in football is without a franchise QB. Plain and simple. Even if you think Eli can play for two more years, it is still smart to hedge your bet and pick a young QB you can build around for after he is gone. It's just the way you build a team. You don't build a team by picking a RB with the second overall pick.
As i said in the other thread, In theory, a franchise QB is the way to go. But what if the Giants are not vested in any of these supposed top QBs? What if they think Webb is or will be the heir-apparent to Eli? Or that there’s a future QB in the later rounds? Doesn’t matter what WE want, it’s what the Giants have assessed.
As to the Shurmur “waste,” he did get very good mileage out of Keenum and Foles before that.
Taking the highest rated player in the ENTIRE draft at 2 (Barkley) is by no means a dumb move, especially given that he’s an every down player that, combined with the receiver talent, will benefit, Eli, the O in general and a rested D that will be called upon to come up big late in games
Just look at the GBN study on the use of top 3 picks over the past 10 years. Almost all of them have been used on QBs, LTs, and DEs. Exactly 1 - ONE - has been used on a RB. That RB - Trent Richardson - was a colossal bust. I'm not saying Barkley will be a bust. I'm just saying there is a reason that teams don't use top picks on RBs.
I'm sure you'll retort that two teams used the 4 pick on RBs. GBN said even expanding its study to the top 10 picks, QBs, LTs, and DEs are overrepresented while RBs (amongst others) are underrepresented in the top 10.
Let's put it this way: who would the Rams give up if forced to give up one: Goff or Gurley? They'd give up Gurley in a heartbeat. No question. And other than his first couple games, Gurley really, really struggled without Goff on the field. (And until McCoy came and revamped that system.) Nonetheless, you need a young QB to groom, and there is nothing to suggest Webb is that guy. When asked about Webb in his initial press conference, Shurmur said they had him as a draftable prospect. Not exactly glowing praise.
Probably should be RB/WR Barkley.
Selecting a RB at #2 with that 37-year old starting QB coming off several obvious seasons of decline is egregious...
Agreed completely.
Eric has warned about this since Gettlemen was a candidate for Reese's job. I was actually optimistic. I didn't think Gettlemen was dumb enough to believe this team can win a super bowl in the next two years after flipping on Eli's games from the past two seasons and taking a look at the roster. When they traded for Ogletree I rolled my eyes at the media criticizing them for trying to win now since he's 26. When they traded JPP I was excited because it meant I was right about the Giants not actually being this stupid. The Ogletree trade I thought was indicative of nothing, Stewart was signed to help turn around the locker room for a year, and Solder they believe can start at LT into his mid-30's.
As we've drawn closer to the draft, every indication out there suggests that they're taking a running back at #2 overall and really are gearing up for 1 more run. I'm still very hopeful that that's wrong but if that is what comes to fruition, I'll finally admit that Eric was right and the media is spot on. With the Browns seemingly turning things around under Dorsey, the Jets making intelligent moves the past couple of off-seasons, you'd be hard pressed to find an organization as poorly run as the Giants in the league right now IF they really are as stupid as it seems.
I'm in the QB with the first round pick boat -- unless the Giants really don't think that the player available to be picked is a franchise QB. I personally don't think that's possible bc I think both Darnold and Rosen are, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Giants really only like one of them.
That said, if the Giants don't believe that the QB available to them is a franchise QB, and if they don't trade down, then the only player I'd consider with the #2 pick is Barkley. I have my doubts about how good he'll ultimately be -- I'm worried by his lack of inside running prowess -- but in terms of talent, I think he's the only non-QB super blue chip talent. Maybe Nelson, but you just can't select a guard with your first #2 overall pick in 30 years. And as good as he may look, there's no such thing as a can't miss prospect, not even at guard. I don't put Chubb in that group. I think Chubb will be solid, but he's not in the same category as Miles Garrett, Kalil Mack, Von Miller, Joey Bosa.
Selecting a RB at #2 with that 37-year old starting QB coming off several obvious seasons of decline is egregious...
I’m not saying Eli hasn’t declined at all, it’s natural to decline over time however I wouldn’t say the decline is obvious. He’s been playing in an offense which frankly doesn’t match his skill set, and he is a play action QB with a line and running game that no one has feared in several years. It’s impossible to accurately judge him in that shitty of a landscape. To me Eli was the least of their problems offensively the last few years, but the QB always gets the blame. He’s not the type to throw his line and coaching staff under the bus, so he has acted as the whipping boy for quite some time now.
What is this, the #175th thread on this exact topic?
For Fuchs sake.
Its a message board. Lighten up and just dont read it.
Tell that to the Packers. Just 3 losing seasons since Favre's first full season in 1992. One was this past year which wouldn't have been one if Rodgers didn't go down.
I seriously have no idea how to say this differently. I don't care if they think Eli can play. That's fine. They have to acknowledge that at 37, he may not be around that much longer. They also have to acknowledge the fact that maybe, just maybe, he has already started to decline, and his poor play from the past two years is a mirage.
Gettleman acknowledged this in his press conference. He said he has to balance the long term with the short term. When you have a 37 year old QB - especially one who unequivocally has played poorly the past few seasons - you absolutely have to pick a young QB. Eli is not 27 now. He's 37. You're not deciding whether to replace him for poor play; you're deciding whether to replace him due to old age (and poor play). Webb does not factor into this equation. When picking at 2, you don't pick a RB; you pick a QB to groom behind Eli. No one, absolutely no one, will care if the guy sits for two years if you find the next Rodgers. Oh, and guess what? If Eli really is bad - then his career with the Giants is over after next year, and he'll likely be benched midseason, particularly now that his streak is over.
Whether the Giants think Eli can still play and drafting a young QB to groom at 2 are not mutually exclusive. You can still get other people in later rounds to help now. They also got guys to help on the line in FA. They addressed needs in FA to help now. Now, you address the long term QB need in the draft at 2.
Not disagreeing with you, but where would the Giants be if they had stuck with Kerry Collins and drafting someone like Sean Taylor or Kellen Winslow Jr. instead of moving up and getting Eli Manning?
And that's the point of all this. They identified that Collins was not good enough to win a SB. Eli is nearing the end and is likely not good enough to win (or won't be soon). You'd think Gettleman knows this. And remember, when the Giants drafted Eli, they signed Warner and did not start Eli immediately. It was not until the middle of the next season that they started Eli.
Also, I don't think Eli's play is going to warrant sitting a kid two years. I'll be pleasantly surprised if that happens. Frankly, I think Eli is going to struggle next year, and the kid is going to replace Eli midseason. I think this is Eli's last season in NY.
I personally would love to trade down to 4-5 range and pick up Mayfield and some other picks.
The best player in college football was Baker Mayfield. PFF has him as the highest rated QB they have ever rated in college (I think that's what I read)... I think he's the perfect guy to sit and mature behind Eli a year or two.
It's a crap shoot. There is some great RB talent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
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