A few weeks ago I thought it was a sure fire thing that the Giants go QB. Now I'm not so sure. The media has zero idea what DG is going to do. That's a fact.
I personally would love to trade down to 4-5 range and pick up Mayfield and some other picks.
The best player in college football was Baker Mayfield. PFF has him as the highest rated QB they have ever rated in college (I think that's what I read)... I think he's the perfect guy to sit and mature behind Eli a year or two.
It's a crap shoot. There is some great RB talent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Lonk - ( New Window )
Unless Darnold is sitting there at 3, Mayfield appears to be as close to a lock as one can be before the draft to go to the Jets there
And for those who don't want a QB now - just when do you think you'll get one and for how much? What are the chances the Giants are a top 3 pick next year? And next years QBs are not so good.
And to jtgiants, no QBs do not have to play right away. Especially Darnold, who is totally incapable of starting an NFL game at this moment. Only two QBs in this draft could be competent starting this year, Rosen and Mayfield.(IMV of course).
However, if Cleveland doesn't take Barkley, I think that is who Gettleman takes.
Fair enough. We disagree on eli. If you're wrong on eli will you b ok with a kid sitting 2 years? If the answer is yes ok fine. No issue. I disagree and wouldn't be ok w that. That said I respect your opinion. Gettleman can't win Thursday. No matter what he does many won't agree
Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
A few weeks ago I thought it was a sure fire thing that the Giants go QB. Now I'm not so sure. The media has zero idea what DG is going to do. That's a fact.
I personally would love to trade down to 4-5 range and pick up Mayfield and some other picks.
The best player in college football was Baker Mayfield. PFF has him as the highest rated QB they have ever rated in college (I think that's what I read)... I think he's the perfect guy to sit and mature behind Eli a year or two.
It's a crap shoot. There is some great RB talent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Lonk - ( New Window )
Unless Darnold is sitting there at 3, Mayfield appears to be as close to a lock as one can be before the draft to go to the Jets there
Thursday night should be fun. The media seems to think the Browns will go Josh Allen at #1. That would leave Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield there for the picking.
I really think DG goes QB here. Which do they like the most? We shall see Thursday night.
Fair enough. We disagree on eli. If you're wrong on eli will you b ok with a kid sitting 2 years? If the answer is yes ok fine. No issue. I disagree and wouldn't be ok w that. That said I respect your opinion. Gettleman can't win Thursday. No matter what he does many won't agree
JT: I think we both respect each other's opinions; we're adults here. I think - and hope - that while that Giants may think Eli can still play, they have to have some reservations that maybe, just maybe, he is really declining. They must have gone through the games and watched some of throws and thought, this is not just the scheme. Or this is not just the line. And maybe they think Shurmur can fix some of that; after all, he worked magic with Keenum last season. But somewhere in there, I have to believe they are worried that Eli has reached the end, even if they won't publicly admit it (which would be the exact wrong thing to do).
On Thursday, we'll see which way they intend to go. But if they pick an RB, they are unquestionably setting this franchise up for a long time in QB hell when Eli is finished, whether that be this season, next season, or in three years.
Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
Could be MORE THAN 2 years for Eli with Barkley, our receivers and an improved OL in tow. Of course, if his happy feet stemming from no running game a porous OL and injuries remain present, he may not even have 2 years
Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
IF ELI PLAYS WELL. And it's not awful management because in year 3 and year 4, you'll have unbelievable savings with a great QB, if you hit. And if you hit, you'll have your QB for the next 10-15 years, which is what you want anyway.
Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
I agree with you 100%. No way they turn away from Eli if he has a halfway decent year this year. And frankly they shouldn’t. The guy just turned 37, the way the rules protect QB’s now you are going to see a lot of guys playing until they are 40. I mean that was unheard of years ago. Now you have Brees, Brady, etc still out there in their 40’s. I understand the panic by some that we need a QB, but we still have one that is capable of winning. If you had a guy like Andrew Luck sitting there I would say you absolutely go QB, but none of these guys really jumps off the page as being some amazing prospect.
Fair enough. We disagree on eli. If you're wrong on eli will you b ok with a kid sitting 2 years? If the answer is yes ok fine. No issue. I disagree and wouldn't be ok w that. That said I respect your opinion. Gettleman can't win Thursday. No matter what he does many won't agree
JT: I think we both respect each other's opinions; we're adults here. I think - and hope - that while that Giants may think Eli can still play, they have to have some reservations that maybe, just maybe, he is really declining. They must have gone through the games and watched some of throws and thought, this is not just the scheme. Or this is not just the line. And maybe they think Shurmur can fix some of that; after all, he worked magic with Keenum last season. But somewhere in there, I have to believe they are worried that Eli has reached the end, even if they won't publicly admit it (which would be the exact wrong thing to do).
On Thursday, we'll see which way they intend to go. But if they pick an RB, they are unquestionably setting this franchise up for a long time in QB hell when Eli is finished, whether that be this season, next season, or in three years.
I understand your line of thinking, but none of these guys is a can’t miss prospect from the outset this year. Passing on a blue chip player at another position to draft one of them could also put us in QB hell a few years from now if they don’t pan out. This is what Gettleman was referring to the other day when he said taking the wrong QB this high sets you back five years.
You're writing off Webb. There not. Neither am I. That's the difference
I don't know what they're doing with Webb. But Gettleman's press conference suggested that Webb is not going to play much of a role into their decision making with the second overall pick. Could that be a lie? Sure. But I don't buy that a different coach and GM have any allegiance to Webb or that the third round pick from a year ago from a regime they don't trust will impact their pick this time around.
I don't have inside sources, so I could be wrong. Maybe it's just hopeful thinking on my part. But I will be livid if they do not select a QB with the second overall pick on Thursday.
Ok. Here's why I'm not ok sitting a #2 overall pick 2 years. You need all the info you can get on these guys. Not playing him for 2 years really hampers the growth and evaluation s that can only be made by playing time. I'm just not comfortable w a kid potentially sitting 2 years and I believe that very well could happen
Gettleman is a professional. I would expect the pick to be a Darnold.
Watson, these are my feelings. I want one of these two players and logic says the QB (but not the heart). Since I am clueless, I will leave it to Gettleman and trust his choice.
Is basically going to be 50/50 share of those pissed off vs those that are thrilled. Gettleman is in a no win situation from a fans reaction standpoint, however, I don’t think he really cares. He will do what he feels is the best thing for the team.
Fair enough. We disagree on eli. If you're wrong on eli will you b ok with a kid sitting 2 years? If the answer is yes ok fine. No issue. I disagree and wouldn't be ok w that. That said I respect your opinion. Gettleman can't win Thursday. No matter what he does many won't agree
JT: I think we both respect each other's opinions; we're adults here. I think - and hope - that while that Giants may think Eli can still play, they have to have some reservations that maybe, just maybe, he is really declining. They must have gone through the games and watched some of throws and thought, this is not just the scheme. Or this is not just the line. And maybe they think Shurmur can fix some of that; after all, he worked magic with Keenum last season. But somewhere in there, I have to believe they are worried that Eli has reached the end, even if they won't publicly admit it (which would be the exact wrong thing to do).
On Thursday, we'll see which way they intend to go. But if they pick an RB, they are unquestionably setting this franchise up for a long time in QB hell when Eli is finished, whether that be this season, next season, or in three years.
I understand your line of thinking, but none of these guys is a can’t miss prospect from the outset this year. Passing on a blue chip player at another position to draft one of them could also put us in QB hell a few years from now if they don’t pan out. This is what Gettleman was referring to the other day when he said taking the wrong QB this high sets you back five years.
You did listen when he said that if you ask the right questions you find the answers in response to the picking the wrong QB. You think it's better if we pick Barkley at 2 and he busts? Greg Robinson and Robert Gallery were thought to be can't miss tackles at 2 overall, and they busted. If you miss at any position at 2 overall, it messes you up badly.
And good QBs very, very rarely hit the open market. Brees, Jimmy G., Cousins (who I don't think is that good) are the exception. So if you hope to get a franchise QB, you're pretty much going to have to take one, and they typically get taken in the top 5. So at some point the Giants are more than likely going to have to spend a high 1st round pick to get their next franchise QB. Gettleman knows that. He knows that at some point he will have to draft a QB. Next time they need a QB is he going to pass on one because he says drafting the wrong QB messes up a team for years? I mean, with that philosophy, you'll basically never draft a QB again, and that makes it supremely difficult to land a young, franchise QB.
What is this, the #175th thread on this exact topic?
For Fuchs sake.
Right, because no new threads is much better than a few repetitive ones? You self proclaimed thread police are proving to be the slow motion death of this site.
You read the thread title. If you were not interested, don't click on it. WE ARE LESS THAN A WEEK FROM THE DRAFT.... This site should be full of draft threads right now. Not everyone spends all winter following the minutia of this stuff. Many people are just tuning in now, and frankly, they are probably no worse off for the decision. Why bother with the daily nonsense when they can get the full rundown around this time when info and intentions seem to come into actual focus?
If this thread is not sufficiently crafted prose for your literary taste, perhaps you can start your own thread and put us all in awe of how a real pro does it??? Link - ( New Window )
I think no matter what, a GM gets criticized with their draft pick. And, yes, I think Gettleman will get criticized for this pick on Thursday. However, normally I am ok going in one direction or another. If we had a QB, I could see Barkley or Chubb or Nelson. Not that I would agree with any of those guys, but I could see the argument for any, and I'd ultimately live with it. Here, I just can't see the argument for anyone other than a QB, because it simply makes no sense to me.
Fair enough. We disagree on eli. If you're wrong on eli will you b ok with a kid sitting 2 years? If the answer is yes ok fine. No issue. I disagree and wouldn't be ok w that. That said I respect your opinion. Gettleman can't win Thursday. No matter what he does many won't agree
JT: I think we both respect each other's opinions; we're adults here. I think - and hope - that while that Giants may think Eli can still play, they have to have some reservations that maybe, just maybe, he is really declining. They must have gone through the games and watched some of throws and thought, this is not just the scheme. Or this is not just the line. And maybe they think Shurmur can fix some of that; after all, he worked magic with Keenum last season. But somewhere in there, I have to believe they are worried that Eli has reached the end, even if they won't publicly admit it (which would be the exact wrong thing to do).
On Thursday, we'll see which way they intend to go. But if they pick an RB, they are unquestionably setting this franchise up for a long time in QB hell when Eli is finished, whether that be this season, next season, or in three years.
I understand your line of thinking, but none of these guys is a can’t miss prospect from the outset this year. Passing on a blue chip player at another position to draft one of them could also put us in QB hell a few years from now if they don’t pan out. This is what Gettleman was referring to the other day when he said taking the wrong QB this high sets you back five years.
You did listen when he said that if you ask the right questions you find the answers in response to the picking the wrong QB. You think it's better if we pick Barkley at 2 and he busts? Greg Robinson and Robert Gallery were thought to be can't miss tackles at 2 overall, and they busted. If you miss at any position at 2 overall, it messes you up badly.
And good QBs very, very rarely hit the open market. Brees, Jimmy G., Cousins (who I don't think is that good) are the exception. So if you hope to get a franchise QB, you're pretty much going to have to take one, and they typically get taken in the top 5. So at some point the Giants are more than likely going to have to spend a high 1st round pick to get their next franchise QB. Gettleman knows that. He knows that at some point he will have to draft a QB. Next time they need a QB is he going to pass on one because he says drafting the wrong QB messes up a team for years? I mean, with that philosophy, you'll basically never draft a QB again, and that makes it supremely difficult to land a young, franchise QB.
Agreed, any player can be a bust, and at 2 it sucks if that happens. I personally don’t feel that strongly about any of these QB’s, which is why I don’t feel that we are necessarily screwed if we don’t take one of them. And there have been seemingly more and more QB’s coming from outside the top 5 in recent years. Rodgers, Garropolo, Watson, Wilson, Prescott, Cousins, Brees, Brady, none of those guys were top 5 picks and are either entrenched stars or rising stars at this point. For all of the great QB’s taken early, there are a lot of busts as well.
I respect you but don't agree. I don't think Elis in decline. I think he's going to show a lot of you guys he has a lot of gas in the tank. If he plays well the kid qb will sit for 2 years. How does that make sense?
I indicated my first statement was debatable. Disagreeing with the other two points is actually what makes no sense...
I think no matter what, a GM gets criticized with their draft pick. And, yes, I think Gettleman will get criticized for this pick on Thursday. However, normally I am ok going in one direction or another. If we had a QB, I could see Barkley or Chubb or Nelson. Not that I would agree with any of those guys, but I could see the argument for any, and I'd ultimately live with it. Here, I just can't see the argument for anyone other than a QB, because it simply makes no sense to me.
Too stubborn to respond to my posts? They will NOT take a QB if they DO NOT view any of them as a franchise-maker, so taking a QB just because you want one, is not going to happen. Period. Exclamation point.
If they like the QBs, they WILL take one, also period, exclamation.
Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
You take a QB when you have a chance (has to be top quality, no reaching) when your starting QB is 37. Does not matter if he sits one or two years. If ELi was 34, I'd agree no QB. But Eli is 37 and has not been very good for two years, at least. He can be reasonably cut in 2019.
But, in all honesty, while I'd prefer a QB, if Gettleman goes Barkley, I don't care. Not really a Chubb fan at #2.
I think no matter what, a GM gets criticized with their draft pick. And, yes, I think Gettleman will get criticized for this pick on Thursday. However, normally I am ok going in one direction or another. If we had a QB, I could see Barkley or Chubb or Nelson. Not that I would agree with any of those guys, but I could see the argument for any, and I'd ultimately live with it. Here, I just can't see the argument for anyone other than a QB, because it simply makes no sense to me.
Too stubborn to respond to my posts? They will NOT take a QB if they DO NOT view any of them as a franchise-maker, so taking a QB just because you want one, is not going to happen. Period. Exclamation point.
If they like the QBs, they WILL take one, also period, exclamation.
Exactly. I think the hesitancy from many on this board in regard to taking a QB is that there isn’t really a “near perfect” prospect in this class. Every one of the top 4 could honestly be a bust, there are traits with each one that could be career killers. Rosen with the frailty, Darnold and the turnovers, Mayfield’s height/attitude, Allen’s accuracy. If Andrew Luck was sitting there (not the injured version), there would be almost no debate over who they should take this year. But that QB prospect is not sitting there this year. These guys could be amazing, but to me here is huge bust potential in this group.
Yes to unstoppable 80 receptions 1000 yards out of the backfield. Want to stop that? You cant, you have no choice, or OBJ will rape you down the field in single coverage.
Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
So is selecting a RB #2 overall when several very good ones will be sitting there in rd 2 and 3.
Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
So is selecting a RB #2 overall when several very good ones will be sitting there in rd 2 and 3.
It’s not just Barkley. This draft has some serious talent at non QB positions, at least on paper. Many are saying Chubb is the best DE to come out in the last five years, Barkley the best RB in ten. Not to mention Quentin Nelson who ex offensive lineman just rave about. I think the perceived skill level at other positions is higher than what we see in many drafts which makes taking a QB who has some serious concerns more difficult to stomach for many of us.
But I’m tired of all the QB people saying you gotta draft your QB for the next 10-15 years, how hell do we know the QB will make it that long??? Keep hearing this over and over and it’s crazy
Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
So is selecting a RB #2 overall when several very good ones will be sitting there in rd 2 and 3.
You can say that about EVERY position in football. It is a poor argument
I think the perceived skill level at other positions is higher than what we see in many drafts which makes taking a QB who has some serious concerns more difficult to stomach for many of us.
Yet, continually starting an aging QB with serious concerns is okay to stomach?
Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
So is selecting a RB #2 overall when several very good ones will be sitting there in rd 2 and 3.
You can say that about EVERY position in football. It is a poor argument
Not when you have a quickly growing need at QB on your hands...
I think the perceived skill level at other positions is higher than what we see in many drafts which makes taking a QB who has some serious concerns more difficult to stomach for many of us.
Yet, continually starting an aging QB with serious concerns is okay to stomach?
I don’t have many concerns about Eli. I feel that an improved line and a running game would make a world of difference. Drew Brees has declined as well, but having a running game sure made a difference for him and his team last year.
Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
So is selecting a RB #2 overall when several very good ones will be sitting there in rd 2 and 3.
You can say that about EVERY position in football. It is a poor argument
Not when you have a quickly growing need at QB on your hands...
You can win with Eli Manning. But the surrounding pieces need to be better, plain and simple.
I am NOT saying ignore QB...it is literally a coin flip for me right now...but the QB has to grade out well enough. Forcing it there while looking past the best RB prospect in a long time is foolish.
NYG is committed to Eli Manning for another year or two, it makes a lot of sense to make the team around him better.
I think the perceived skill level at other positions is higher than what we see in many drafts which makes taking a QB who has some serious concerns more difficult to stomach for many of us.
Yet, continually starting an aging QB with serious concerns is okay to stomach?
I don’t have many concerns about Eli. I feel that an improved line and a running game would make a world of difference. Drew Brees has declined as well, but having a running game sure made a difference for him and his team last year.
Brees threw for more yards and more touchdowns two years ago than Eli has in any season over the course of his career. The team wasn't as good as last year but they still won 7 games with Brees carrying them on his shoulders. I love Eli but he was never in Brees' league. Eli was never a top 3 quarterback in the NFL aside from arguably one season. Brees always was. He's declining from a much higher perch than Eli is.
But I’m tired of all the QB people saying you gotta draft your QB for the next 10-15 years, how hell do we know the QB will make it that long??? Keep hearing this over and over and it’s crazy
With that attitude then how do you know that Barkley won't get one shot in the knee and be basically a shell of what he is projected to be?
I think an improved O-line and running game would Â
Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
So is selecting a RB #2 overall when several very good ones will be sitting there in rd 2 and 3.
You can say that about EVERY position in football. It is a poor argument
Not when you have a quickly growing need at QB on your hands...
You can win with Eli Manning. But the surrounding pieces need to be better, plain and simple.
I am NOT saying ignore QB...it is literally a coin flip for me right now...but the QB has to grade out well enough. Forcing it there while looking past the best RB prospect in a long time is foolish.
NYG is committed to Eli Manning for another year or two, it makes a lot of sense to make the team around him better.
You can make the team better while also drafting a QB in Rd 1.
I think the perceived skill level at other positions is higher than what we see in many drafts which makes taking a QB who has some serious concerns more difficult to stomach for many of us.
Yet, continually starting an aging QB with serious concerns is okay to stomach?
I don’t have many concerns about Eli. I feel that an improved line and a running game would make a world of difference. Drew Brees has declined as well, but having a running game sure made a difference for him and his team last year.
Brees threw for more yards and more touchdowns two years ago than Eli has in any season over the course of his career. The team wasn't as good as last year but they still won 7 games with Brees carrying them on his shoulders. I love Eli but he was never in Brees' league. Eli was never a top 3 quarterback in the NFL aside from arguably one season. Brees always was. He's declining from a much higher perch than Eli is.
Not really comparing Eli to Brees. I’m saying that the running game made the Saints a better team and allowed the burden to fall on someone other than Brees. I think Barkley and a few more oline pieces could have the same impact on the Giants this year. Did anyone expect the Saints to be as good as they were last year? Doubt it, things change quickly in today’s NFL.
at the young QBs on the roster last season, before having to decide on these college prospects. Now all of a sudden he's committed to Eli for at least two years? Doesn't really add up.
Just so the team has to be fortunate enough to find one at a higher point in the draft in a near future year, or worse, burn valuable draft capital to move up and select a QB in a future?
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
I personally would love to trade down to 4-5 range and pick up Mayfield and some other picks.
The best player in college football was Baker Mayfield. PFF has him as the highest rated QB they have ever rated in college (I think that's what I read)... I think he's the perfect guy to sit and mature behind Eli a year or two.
It's a crap shoot. There is some great RB talent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Lonk - ( New Window )
Unless Darnold is sitting there at 3, Mayfield appears to be as close to a lock as one can be before the draft to go to the Jets there
And for those who don't want a QB now - just when do you think you'll get one and for how much? What are the chances the Giants are a top 3 pick next year? And next years QBs are not so good.
And to jtgiants, no QBs do not have to play right away. Especially Darnold, who is totally incapable of starting an NFL game at this moment. Only two QBs in this draft could be competent starting this year, Rosen and Mayfield.(IMV of course).
However, if Cleveland doesn't take Barkley, I think that is who Gettleman takes.
I don’t see Darnold as a legitimate franchise QB.
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A few weeks ago I thought it was a sure fire thing that the Giants go QB. Now I'm not so sure. The media has zero idea what DG is going to do. That's a fact.
I personally would love to trade down to 4-5 range and pick up Mayfield and some other picks.
The best player in college football was Baker Mayfield. PFF has him as the highest rated QB they have ever rated in college (I think that's what I read)... I think he's the perfect guy to sit and mature behind Eli a year or two.
It's a crap shoot. There is some great RB talent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Lonk - ( New Window )
Unless Darnold is sitting there at 3, Mayfield appears to be as close to a lock as one can be before the draft to go to the Jets there
Thursday night should be fun. The media seems to think the Browns will go Josh Allen at #1. That would leave Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield there for the picking.
I really think DG goes QB here. Which do they like the most? We shall see Thursday night.
JT: I think we both respect each other's opinions; we're adults here. I think - and hope - that while that Giants may think Eli can still play, they have to have some reservations that maybe, just maybe, he is really declining. They must have gone through the games and watched some of throws and thought, this is not just the scheme. Or this is not just the line. And maybe they think Shurmur can fix some of that; after all, he worked magic with Keenum last season. But somewhere in there, I have to believe they are worried that Eli has reached the end, even if they won't publicly admit it (which would be the exact wrong thing to do).
On Thursday, we'll see which way they intend to go. But if they pick an RB, they are unquestionably setting this franchise up for a long time in QB hell when Eli is finished, whether that be this season, next season, or in three years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R7FUzc3rlE
And here is why no Darnold: Heck why you'd take Mayfield over Darnold:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvwdhaKrKVE
Could be MORE THAN 2 years for Eli with Barkley, our receivers and an improved OL in tow. Of course, if his happy feet stemming from no running game a porous OL and injuries remain present, he may not even have 2 years
IF ELI PLAYS WELL. And it's not awful management because in year 3 and year 4, you'll have unbelievable savings with a great QB, if you hit. And if you hit, you'll have your QB for the next 10-15 years, which is what you want anyway.
I agree with you 100%. No way they turn away from Eli if he has a halfway decent year this year. And frankly they shouldn’t. The guy just turned 37, the way the rules protect QB’s now you are going to see a lot of guys playing until they are 40. I mean that was unheard of years ago. Now you have Brees, Brady, etc still out there in their 40’s. I understand the panic by some that we need a QB, but we still have one that is capable of winning. If you had a guy like Andrew Luck sitting there I would say you absolutely go QB, but none of these guys really jumps off the page as being some amazing prospect.
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Fair enough. We disagree on eli. If you're wrong on eli will you b ok with a kid sitting 2 years? If the answer is yes ok fine. No issue. I disagree and wouldn't be ok w that. That said I respect your opinion. Gettleman can't win Thursday. No matter what he does many won't agree
JT: I think we both respect each other's opinions; we're adults here. I think - and hope - that while that Giants may think Eli can still play, they have to have some reservations that maybe, just maybe, he is really declining. They must have gone through the games and watched some of throws and thought, this is not just the scheme. Or this is not just the line. And maybe they think Shurmur can fix some of that; after all, he worked magic with Keenum last season. But somewhere in there, I have to believe they are worried that Eli has reached the end, even if they won't publicly admit it (which would be the exact wrong thing to do).
On Thursday, we'll see which way they intend to go. But if they pick an RB, they are unquestionably setting this franchise up for a long time in QB hell when Eli is finished, whether that be this season, next season, or in three years.
I understand your line of thinking, but none of these guys is a can’t miss prospect from the outset this year. Passing on a blue chip player at another position to draft one of them could also put us in QB hell a few years from now if they don’t pan out. This is what Gettleman was referring to the other day when he said taking the wrong QB this high sets you back five years.
I don't know what they're doing with Webb. But Gettleman's press conference suggested that Webb is not going to play much of a role into their decision making with the second overall pick. Could that be a lie? Sure. But I don't buy that a different coach and GM have any allegiance to Webb or that the third round pick from a year ago from a regime they don't trust will impact their pick this time around.
I don't have inside sources, so I could be wrong. Maybe it's just hopeful thinking on my part. But I will be livid if they do not select a QB with the second overall pick on Thursday.
Watson, these are my feelings. I want one of these two players and logic says the QB (but not the heart). Since I am clueless, I will leave it to Gettleman and trust his choice.
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In comment 13924096 jtgiants said:
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Fair enough. We disagree on eli. If you're wrong on eli will you b ok with a kid sitting 2 years? If the answer is yes ok fine. No issue. I disagree and wouldn't be ok w that. That said I respect your opinion. Gettleman can't win Thursday. No matter what he does many won't agree
JT: I think we both respect each other's opinions; we're adults here. I think - and hope - that while that Giants may think Eli can still play, they have to have some reservations that maybe, just maybe, he is really declining. They must have gone through the games and watched some of throws and thought, this is not just the scheme. Or this is not just the line. And maybe they think Shurmur can fix some of that; after all, he worked magic with Keenum last season. But somewhere in there, I have to believe they are worried that Eli has reached the end, even if they won't publicly admit it (which would be the exact wrong thing to do).
On Thursday, we'll see which way they intend to go. But if they pick an RB, they are unquestionably setting this franchise up for a long time in QB hell when Eli is finished, whether that be this season, next season, or in three years.
I understand your line of thinking, but none of these guys is a can’t miss prospect from the outset this year. Passing on a blue chip player at another position to draft one of them could also put us in QB hell a few years from now if they don’t pan out. This is what Gettleman was referring to the other day when he said taking the wrong QB this high sets you back five years.
You did listen when he said that if you ask the right questions you find the answers in response to the picking the wrong QB. You think it's better if we pick Barkley at 2 and he busts? Greg Robinson and Robert Gallery were thought to be can't miss tackles at 2 overall, and they busted. If you miss at any position at 2 overall, it messes you up badly.
And good QBs very, very rarely hit the open market. Brees, Jimmy G., Cousins (who I don't think is that good) are the exception. So if you hope to get a franchise QB, you're pretty much going to have to take one, and they typically get taken in the top 5. So at some point the Giants are more than likely going to have to spend a high 1st round pick to get their next franchise QB. Gettleman knows that. He knows that at some point he will have to draft a QB. Next time they need a QB is he going to pass on one because he says drafting the wrong QB messes up a team for years? I mean, with that philosophy, you'll basically never draft a QB again, and that makes it supremely difficult to land a young, franchise QB.
What is this, the #175th thread on this exact topic?
For Fuchs sake.
Right, because no new threads is much better than a few repetitive ones? You self proclaimed thread police are proving to be the slow motion death of this site.
You read the thread title. If you were not interested, don't click on it. WE ARE LESS THAN A WEEK FROM THE DRAFT.... This site should be full of draft threads right now. Not everyone spends all winter following the minutia of this stuff. Many people are just tuning in now, and frankly, they are probably no worse off for the decision. Why bother with the daily nonsense when they can get the full rundown around this time when info and intentions seem to come into actual focus?
If this thread is not sufficiently crafted prose for your literary taste, perhaps you can start your own thread and put us all in awe of how a real pro does it???
Link - ( New Window )
It’s really THAT simple
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In comment 13924104 Giants34 said:
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In comment 13924096 jtgiants said:
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Fair enough. We disagree on eli. If you're wrong on eli will you b ok with a kid sitting 2 years? If the answer is yes ok fine. No issue. I disagree and wouldn't be ok w that. That said I respect your opinion. Gettleman can't win Thursday. No matter what he does many won't agree
JT: I think we both respect each other's opinions; we're adults here. I think - and hope - that while that Giants may think Eli can still play, they have to have some reservations that maybe, just maybe, he is really declining. They must have gone through the games and watched some of throws and thought, this is not just the scheme. Or this is not just the line. And maybe they think Shurmur can fix some of that; after all, he worked magic with Keenum last season. But somewhere in there, I have to believe they are worried that Eli has reached the end, even if they won't publicly admit it (which would be the exact wrong thing to do).
On Thursday, we'll see which way they intend to go. But if they pick an RB, they are unquestionably setting this franchise up for a long time in QB hell when Eli is finished, whether that be this season, next season, or in three years.
I understand your line of thinking, but none of these guys is a can’t miss prospect from the outset this year. Passing on a blue chip player at another position to draft one of them could also put us in QB hell a few years from now if they don’t pan out. This is what Gettleman was referring to the other day when he said taking the wrong QB this high sets you back five years.
You did listen when he said that if you ask the right questions you find the answers in response to the picking the wrong QB. You think it's better if we pick Barkley at 2 and he busts? Greg Robinson and Robert Gallery were thought to be can't miss tackles at 2 overall, and they busted. If you miss at any position at 2 overall, it messes you up badly.
And good QBs very, very rarely hit the open market. Brees, Jimmy G., Cousins (who I don't think is that good) are the exception. So if you hope to get a franchise QB, you're pretty much going to have to take one, and they typically get taken in the top 5. So at some point the Giants are more than likely going to have to spend a high 1st round pick to get their next franchise QB. Gettleman knows that. He knows that at some point he will have to draft a QB. Next time they need a QB is he going to pass on one because he says drafting the wrong QB messes up a team for years? I mean, with that philosophy, you'll basically never draft a QB again, and that makes it supremely difficult to land a young, franchise QB.
Agreed, any player can be a bust, and at 2 it sucks if that happens. I personally don’t feel that strongly about any of these QB’s, which is why I don’t feel that we are necessarily screwed if we don’t take one of them. And there have been seemingly more and more QB’s coming from outside the top 5 in recent years. Rodgers, Garropolo, Watson, Wilson, Prescott, Cousins, Brees, Brady, none of those guys were top 5 picks and are either entrenched stars or rising stars at this point. For all of the great QB’s taken early, there are a lot of busts as well.
I indicated my first statement was debatable. Disagreeing with the other two points is actually what makes no sense...
Too stubborn to respond to my posts? They will NOT take a QB if they DO NOT view any of them as a franchise-maker, so taking a QB just because you want one, is not going to happen. Period. Exclamation point.
If they like the QBs, they WILL take one, also period, exclamation.
You take a QB when you have a chance (has to be top quality, no reaching) when your starting QB is 37. Does not matter if he sits one or two years. If ELi was 34, I'd agree no QB. But Eli is 37 and has not been very good for two years, at least. He can be reasonably cut in 2019.
But, in all honesty, while I'd prefer a QB, if Gettleman goes Barkley, I don't care. Not really a Chubb fan at #2.
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I think no matter what, a GM gets criticized with their draft pick. And, yes, I think Gettleman will get criticized for this pick on Thursday. However, normally I am ok going in one direction or another. If we had a QB, I could see Barkley or Chubb or Nelson. Not that I would agree with any of those guys, but I could see the argument for any, and I'd ultimately live with it. Here, I just can't see the argument for anyone other than a QB, because it simply makes no sense to me.
Too stubborn to respond to my posts? They will NOT take a QB if they DO NOT view any of them as a franchise-maker, so taking a QB just because you want one, is not going to happen. Period. Exclamation point.
If they like the QBs, they WILL take one, also period, exclamation.
Exactly. I think the hesitancy from many on this board in regard to taking a QB is that there isn’t really a “near perfect” prospect in this class. Every one of the top 4 could honestly be a bust, there are traits with each one that could be career killers. Rosen with the frailty, Darnold and the turnovers, Mayfield’s height/attitude, Allen’s accuracy. If Andrew Luck was sitting there (not the injured version), there would be almost no debate over who they should take this year. But that QB prospect is not sitting there this year. These guys could be amazing, but to me here is huge bust potential in this group.
There is too much to not like when it comes to Darnold
So is selecting a RB #2 overall when several very good ones will be sitting there in rd 2 and 3.
If not, then Barkley as Eli will play for another 4 years as long as the Giants still want him
Darnold is not that accurate of a passer. Ourlads has ranked as their 3rd QB behind Mayfield and Rosen.
Darnold makes poor descisions, and not very accurate. Footwork not good.
Take either Rosen or Mayfield.
I would prefer to not get Darnold.
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Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
So is selecting a RB #2 overall when several very good ones will be sitting there in rd 2 and 3.
It’s not just Barkley. This draft has some serious talent at non QB positions, at least on paper. Many are saying Chubb is the best DE to come out in the last five years, Barkley the best RB in ten. Not to mention Quentin Nelson who ex offensive lineman just rave about. I think the perceived skill level at other positions is higher than what we see in many drafts which makes taking a QB who has some serious concerns more difficult to stomach for many of us.
There is too much to not like when it comes to Darnold
We discuss Rosen a good bit. In fact, he was the winner in several selection polls on BBI. I would take him.
Maybe what you are referring to is a small select group of posters that continually bang the drum on other guys too much...
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Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
So is selecting a RB #2 overall when several very good ones will be sitting there in rd 2 and 3.
You can say that about EVERY position in football. It is a poor argument
Yet, continually starting an aging QB with serious concerns is okay to stomach?
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In comment 13924100 jtgiants said:
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Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
So is selecting a RB #2 overall when several very good ones will be sitting there in rd 2 and 3.
You can say that about EVERY position in football. It is a poor argument
Not when you have a quickly growing need at QB on your hands...
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I think the perceived skill level at other positions is higher than what we see in many drafts which makes taking a QB who has some serious concerns more difficult to stomach for many of us.
Yet, continually starting an aging QB with serious concerns is okay to stomach?
I don’t have many concerns about Eli. I feel that an improved line and a running game would make a world of difference. Drew Brees has declined as well, but having a running game sure made a difference for him and his team last year.
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In comment 13924157 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 13924100 jtgiants said:
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Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
So is selecting a RB #2 overall when several very good ones will be sitting there in rd 2 and 3.
You can say that about EVERY position in football. It is a poor argument
Not when you have a quickly growing need at QB on your hands...
You can win with Eli Manning. But the surrounding pieces need to be better, plain and simple.
I am NOT saying ignore QB...it is literally a coin flip for me right now...but the QB has to grade out well enough. Forcing it there while looking past the best RB prospect in a long time is foolish.
NYG is committed to Eli Manning for another year or two, it makes a lot of sense to make the team around him better.
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In comment 13924163 eric2425ny said:
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I think the perceived skill level at other positions is higher than what we see in many drafts which makes taking a QB who has some serious concerns more difficult to stomach for many of us.
Yet, continually starting an aging QB with serious concerns is okay to stomach?
I don’t have many concerns about Eli. I feel that an improved line and a running game would make a world of difference. Drew Brees has declined as well, but having a running game sure made a difference for him and his team last year.
Brees threw for more yards and more touchdowns two years ago than Eli has in any season over the course of his career. The team wasn't as good as last year but they still won 7 games with Brees carrying them on his shoulders. I love Eli but he was never in Brees' league. Eli was never a top 3 quarterback in the NFL aside from arguably one season. Brees always was. He's declining from a much higher perch than Eli is.
With that attitude then how do you know that Barkley won't get one shot in the knee and be basically a shell of what he is projected to be?
And to a lesser extent to Eli...
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In comment 13924168 Sy'56 said:
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In comment 13924157 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 13924100 jtgiants said:
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Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
So is selecting a RB #2 overall when several very good ones will be sitting there in rd 2 and 3.
You can say that about EVERY position in football. It is a poor argument
Not when you have a quickly growing need at QB on your hands...
You can win with Eli Manning. But the surrounding pieces need to be better, plain and simple.
I am NOT saying ignore QB...it is literally a coin flip for me right now...but the QB has to grade out well enough. Forcing it there while looking past the best RB prospect in a long time is foolish.
NYG is committed to Eli Manning for another year or two, it makes a lot of sense to make the team around him better.
You can make the team better while also drafting a QB in Rd 1.
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In comment 13924169 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 13924163 eric2425ny said:
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I think the perceived skill level at other positions is higher than what we see in many drafts which makes taking a QB who has some serious concerns more difficult to stomach for many of us.
Yet, continually starting an aging QB with serious concerns is okay to stomach?
I don’t have many concerns about Eli. I feel that an improved line and a running game would make a world of difference. Drew Brees has declined as well, but having a running game sure made a difference for him and his team last year.
Brees threw for more yards and more touchdowns two years ago than Eli has in any season over the course of his career. The team wasn't as good as last year but they still won 7 games with Brees carrying them on his shoulders. I love Eli but he was never in Brees' league. Eli was never a top 3 quarterback in the NFL aside from arguably one season. Brees always was. He's declining from a much higher perch than Eli is.
Not really comparing Eli to Brees. I’m saying that the running game made the Saints a better team and allowed the burden to fall on someone other than Brees. I think Barkley and a few more oline pieces could have the same impact on the Giants this year. Did anyone expect the Saints to be as good as they were last year? Doubt it, things change quickly in today’s NFL.
There is too much to not like when it comes to Darnold
I agree, I think Darnold has too much bust potential for my liking
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
Maybe flip that coin and see what happens...
:-)