But I’m tired of all the QB people saying you gotta draft your QB for the next 10-15 years, how hell do we know the QB will make it that long??? Keep hearing this over and over and it’s crazy
With that attitude then how do you know that Barkley won't get one shot in the knee and be basically a shell of what he is projected to be?
I don’t disagree, but it goes both ways. Rosen, for example, hasn’t shown the ability in college to stay healthy.
Just so the team has to be fortunate enough to find one at a higher point in the draft in a near future year, or worse, burn valuable draft capital to move up and select a QB in a future?
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
Maybe flip that coin and see what happens...
:-)
If they aren’t sold on the guys this year, you would be better off waiting and trading up if you like a guy in a future year rather than force one now.
Just so the team has to be fortunate enough to find one at a higher point in the draft in a near future year, or worse, burn valuable draft capital to move up and select a QB in a future?
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
Maybe flip that coin and see what happens...
:-)
Well you can't fill every hole in an offseason, and you certainly can't fill every hole and future holes in an offseason.
Point remains...Manning is the guy in 2018 and probably 2019. He isn't elite. Thus the pieces around him need to be better. There wasn't a QB situation in the NFL that was worse than Manning's....CLE included. A bottom 3 OL, a bottom 3 backfield, a bottom 2 WR core. And a defense that couldnt hold a lead.
OL should be very much improved with a new LT and hopefully a new interior guy from round 2. The backfield can be enormously better with Barkley. And the WR core should be improved as a result of health. New defensive scheme with some tweaks to personnel on all levels..this team can contend.
But I’m tired of all the QB people saying you gotta draft your QB for the next 10-15 years, how hell do we know the QB will make it that long??? Keep hearing this over and over and it’s crazy
With that attitude then how do you know that Barkley won't get one shot in the knee and be basically a shell of what he is projected to be?
I don’t disagree, but it goes both ways. Rosen, for example, hasn’t shown the ability in college to stay healthy.
And as you say it goes both ways. SO are you going to trust the longevity of a Qb or a featured RB that gets hits hit 25-40+ times a game? I'll take the guy with 2 concussions in college. Just give him a good OL.
Just so the team has to be fortunate enough to find one at a higher point in the draft in a near future year, or worse, burn valuable draft capital to move up and select a QB in a future?
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
Maybe flip that coin and see what happens...
:-)
Well you can't fill every hole in an offseason, and you certainly can't fill every hole and future holes in an offseason.
Point remains...Manning is the guy in 2018 and probably 2019. He isn't elite. Thus the pieces around him need to be better. There wasn't a QB situation in the NFL that was worse than Manning's....CLE included. A bottom 3 OL, a bottom 3 backfield, a bottom 2 WR core. And a defense that couldnt hold a lead.
OL should be very much improved with a new LT and hopefully a new interior guy from round 2. The backfield can be enormously better with Barkley. And the WR core should be improved as a result of health. New defensive scheme with some tweaks to personnel on all levels..this team can contend.
I don't think we should go qb. We've debated this. Here's my point. People are dug in this year and nobody agrees.
1. Many want a qb
2. Many want Barkley
3. Many want Chubb
4. Many want trade down
Most here won't be happy if it doesn't go there way. People don't even agree on the teams goals. Many think they want to win now. Many feel that's impossible. This draft is clearly the most polarizing draft in a long time
Just so the team has to be fortunate enough to find one at a higher point in the draft in a near future year, or worse, burn valuable draft capital to move up and select a QB in a future?
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
Maybe flip that coin and see what happens...
:-)
If they aren’t sold on the guys this year, you would be better off waiting and trading up if you like a guy in a future year rather than force one now.
No disrespect...but no shit. Its my view there is enough QB value in this draft and enough declining value at the position on the current roster to "get sold".
Just so the team has to be fortunate enough to find one at a higher point in the draft in a near future year, or worse, burn valuable draft capital to move up and select a QB in a future?
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
Maybe flip that coin and see what happens...
:-)
Well you can't fill every hole in an offseason, and you certainly can't fill every hole and future holes in an offseason.
Point remains...Manning is the guy in 2018 and probably 2019. He isn't elite. Thus the pieces around him need to be better. There wasn't a QB situation in the NFL that was worse than Manning's....CLE included. A bottom 3 OL, a bottom 3 backfield, a bottom 2 WR core. And a defense that couldnt hold a lead.
OL should be very much improved with a new LT and hopefully a new interior guy from round 2. The backfield can be enormously better with Barkley. And the WR core should be improved as a result of health. New defensive scheme with some tweaks to personnel on all levels..this team can contend.
How much si the Oline going to be better?
Didn't you say the guard Omameh isn't very good? I think you went on to sya he needs good surrounding OLinemen. Yet isn't Jones just "average?"
And even if the Giants get a 2nd Rd OL guard, there is no assurance in year he will be good. And then add in the situation at RT.
SO when you say "The OL" should be "much improved"- we have to take that into context right? It sill be highly unlikely they are good, right?
RE: RE: RE: Not selecting a QB is ignoring the QB Â
Just so the team has to be fortunate enough to find one at a higher point in the draft in a near future year, or worse, burn valuable draft capital to move up and select a QB in a future?
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
Maybe flip that coin and see what happens...
:-)
If they aren’t sold on the guys this year, you would be better off waiting and trading up if you like a guy in a future year rather than force one now.
No disrespect...but no shit. Its my view there is enough QB value in this draft and enough declining value at the position on the current roster to "get sold".
And I feel the exact opposite about this years QB’s. Agree to disagree.
I don't think we should go qb. We've debated this. Here's my point. People are dug in this year and nobody agrees.
1. Many want a qb
2. Many want Barkley
3. Many want Chubb
4. Many want trade down
Most here won't be happy if it doesn't go there way. People don't even agree on the teams goals. Many think they want to win now. Many feel that's impossible. This draft is clearly the most polarizing draft in a long time
Both can be true, the organization can want to win now and it can also be impossible :). That's where I'm at
I don't think we should go qb. We've debated this. Here's my point. People are dug in this year and nobody agrees.
1. Many want a qb
2. Many want Barkley
3. Many want Chubb
4. Many want trade down
Most here won't be happy if it doesn't go there way. People don't even agree on the teams goals. Many think they want to win now. Many feel that's impossible. This draft is clearly the most polarizing draft in a long time
I think we should go QB.
But I'm confused why you think so many that have opposing views is relevant. So what?
If the Giants don't go QB-- we just have to believe they are right/ have a plan that will work.
as much as we have debated it for months, we are all still just as entrenched in our points of view as ever. And it really comes down to one simple question: Can Eli guide the Giants to another championship in the next two years. Those who believe this to be the case want Barkley. Those who don't, want Darnold. We can all agree that if Gettleman is presented with a king's ransom of pics that exceeds the value of either, he will take the haul.
I have been steadfast in my support of Eli mainly because it is the only path to a championship in the next two years. I believe that his mediocre play these past six years is due to the lack of supporting talent, abysmal coaching and an offensive scheme that has been misaligned with his talent. With Barkley, a solid draft and the recent additions through free agency and trades, I am confident we will see a resurgence from Eli and a return to playoff form immediately. And if we do make the playoffs, I wouldn't bet against Eli vs any quarterback in the league - ever.
If you don't believe in Eli, I get it. He has made you very frustrated in recent years and you want a new era of offense characterized by a more mobile "Aaron Rodgers-esque" quarterback talent. Maybe Darnold is that guy. But here's the thing. The likelihood that a new quarterback leads a team like the Giants quickly to a championship is very low. Can it happen quickly? Yes - Roethlisberger and Brady did it in their first year as a starter. But they are truly exceptions. The median of the four top first round quarterback draft picks in the last 35 years - Elway, Aikman, Peyton and Eli Manning - is six years. Andrew Luck, the very best quarterback drafted in the 21st century, is 3-3 in the playoffs and I am not sure that he will ever win a championship. And if Darnold is a bust, forget it. You can add five years on top of the six... as Gettleman stated on Thursday.
If Gettleman does draft Darnold, then he is essentially announcing that he does not believe that the Giants can win now with Eli. Yes, he will utter lots of politically correct statements saying he is just being prudent. But the whispers will start to grow and, like Eli himself in 2004, Darnold will be the starter just after the bye on Monday night November 12, 2018 against the 49ers facing Garoppolo. It will be high drama. And Garoppolo will demonstrate that he is far ahead of Darnold. But this will be as it should be - you can't have a top ten quarterback sit anymore. Eli himself proved that and it is true. He needs to begin truly learning the position and the only way to do that is to be on the field asap.
I guess the truth for me is, waiting another six to ten years before we win another Lombardi trophy is just not acceptable for me... I do think we have the talent with a few additional pieces to compete in the next two years so I choose to believe in Eli...
Just so the team has to be fortunate enough to find one at a higher point in the draft in a near future year, or worse, burn valuable draft capital to move up and select a QB in a future?
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
Maybe flip that coin and see what happens...
:-)
Well you can't fill every hole in an offseason, and you certainly can't fill every hole and future holes in an offseason.
Point remains...Manning is the guy in 2018 and probably 2019. He isn't elite. Thus the pieces around him need to be better. There wasn't a QB situation in the NFL that was worse than Manning's....CLE included. A bottom 3 OL, a bottom 3 backfield, a bottom 2 WR core. And a defense that couldnt hold a lead.
OL should be very much improved with a new LT and hopefully a new interior guy from round 2. The backfield can be enormously better with Barkley. And the WR core should be improved as a result of health. New defensive scheme with some tweaks to personnel on all levels..this team can contend.
Fair, but I could say almost the same thing with putting a Michel, Jones or Guice back there and an interior guy in Rd 3, AND I wouldn't have to mortgage the future for a QB in a future draft.
If you want me to rate this on a 1-10 scale in terms of league comparison by position:
2017
Left Tackle = 5
Left Guard = 6
Center = 5
Right Guard = 5
Right Tackle = 2
2018
Left Tackle = 9 (Solder, not the best but very good)
Left Guard = 6 (2nd round rookie or Omameh)...this could be a 7 easily
Center = 5 (Jones again, maybe a rookie steps in)
Right Guard = 5 (Jerry again, average at best)
Right Tackle = 5 (Flowers or Wheeler, anything is better than what they had in 2017)
RE: This question continues to be asked because... Â
as much as we have debated it for months, we are all still just as entrenched in our points of view as ever. And it really comes down to one simple question: Can Eli guide the Giants to another championship in the next two years. Those who believe this to be the case want Barkley. Those who don't, want Darnold. We can all agree that if Gettleman is presented with a king's ransom of pics that exceeds the value of either, he will take the haul.
I have been steadfast in my support of Eli mainly because it is the only path to a championship in the next two years. I believe that his mediocre play these past six years is due to the lack of supporting talent, abysmal coaching and an offensive scheme that has been misaligned with his talent. With Barkley, a solid draft and the recent additions through free agency and trades, I am confident we will see a resurgence from Eli and a return to playoff form immediately. And if we do make the playoffs, I wouldn't bet against Eli vs any quarterback in the league - ever.
If you don't believe in Eli, I get it. He has made you very frustrated in recent years and you want a new era of offense characterized by a more mobile "Aaron Rodgers-esque" quarterback talent. Maybe Darnold is that guy. But here's the thing. The likelihood that a new quarterback leads a team like the Giants quickly to a championship is very low. Can it happen quickly? Yes - Roethlisberger and Brady did it in their first year as a starter. But they are truly exceptions. The median of the four top first round quarterback draft picks in the last 35 years - Elway, Aikman, Peyton and Eli Manning - is six years. Andrew Luck, the very best quarterback drafted in the 21st century, is 3-3 in the playoffs and I am not sure that he will ever win a championship. And if Darnold is a bust, forget it. You can add five years on top of the six... as Gettleman stated on Thursday.
If Gettleman does draft Darnold, then he is essentially announcing that he does not believe that the Giants can win now with Eli. Yes, he will utter lots of politically correct statements saying he is just being prudent. But the whispers will start to grow and, like Eli himself in 2004, Darnold will be the starter just after the bye on Monday night November 12, 2018 against the 49ers facing Garoppolo. It will be high drama. And Garoppolo will demonstrate that he is far ahead of Darnold. But this will be as it should be - you can't have a top ten quarterback sit anymore. Eli himself proved that and it is true. He needs to begin truly learning the position and the only way to do that is to be on the field asap.
I guess the truth for me is, waiting another six to ten years before we win another Lombardi trophy is just not acceptable for me... I do think we have the talent with a few additional pieces to compete in the next two years so I choose to believe in Eli...
We will know soon enough what Gettleman believes.
Well said. In today’s league of constant player movement and overall parity it is more than plausible for the Giants to bounce back this year and be a contender. Look no further than the Jaguars this past season. They went from being one of the leagues worst teams to a few plays away from a Super Bowl in one season.
No matter what we do, there will be a 1 down year for the sake of Â
the next decade+. We take QB #2 this year, we are giving Eli no help and basically throwing this year away. We select Barkley #2, we give Eli help, extend his career for 2 years, and if Webb isn't a decent enough game manager, then we have a bad year after Eli's gone and have yet another top 10 pick for a QB.
The only thing I disagree with is eli won't be benched and the kid will sit the year. If Eli plays well he finishes his contract. I agree a kid shouldn't sit but that is the plan and why I don't want qb
And if you have to flip a coin because you don't see enough value Â
in this draft's QBs, then get the hell out of the #2 pick.
Improve the team across multiple positions with numerous extra picks. They should all help Eli too...no?
And if his decline becomes more of a problem and the team still cannot improve its winning %, then I guess you can hope we still pick relatively high in the draft next year.
But I would still go QB this year...
RE: This question continues to be asked because... Â
as much as we have debated it for months, we are all still just as entrenched in our points of view as ever. And it really comes down to one simple question: Can Eli guide the Giants to another championship in the next two years. Those who believe this to be the case want Barkley. Those who don't, want Darnold. We can all agree that if Gettleman is presented with a king's ransom of pics that exceeds the value of either, he will take the haul.
I have been steadfast in my support of Eli mainly because it is the only path to a championship in the next two years. I believe that his mediocre play these past six years is due to the lack of supporting talent, abysmal coaching and an offensive scheme that has been misaligned with his talent. With Barkley, a solid draft and the recent additions through free agency and trades, I am confident we will see a resurgence from Eli and a return to playoff form immediately. And if we do make the playoffs, I wouldn't bet against Eli vs any quarterback in the league - ever.
If you don't believe in Eli, I get it. He has made you very frustrated in recent years and you want a new era of offense characterized by a more mobile "Aaron Rodgers-esque" quarterback talent. Maybe Darnold is that guy. But here's the thing. The likelihood that a new quarterback leads a team like the Giants quickly to a championship is very low. Can it happen quickly? Yes - Roethlisberger and Brady did it in their first year as a starter. But they are truly exceptions. The median of the four top first round quarterback draft picks in the last 35 years - Elway, Aikman, Peyton and Eli Manning - is six years. Andrew Luck, the very best quarterback drafted in the 21st century, is 3-3 in the playoffs and I am not sure that he will ever win a championship. And if Darnold is a bust, forget it. You can add five years on top of the six... as Gettleman stated on Thursday.
If Gettleman does draft Darnold, then he is essentially announcing that he does not believe that the Giants can win now with Eli. Yes, he will utter lots of politically correct statements saying he is just being prudent. But the whispers will start to grow and, like Eli himself in 2004, Darnold will be the starter just after the bye on Monday night November 12, 2018 against the 49ers facing Garoppolo. It will be high drama. And Garoppolo will demonstrate that he is far ahead of Darnold. But this will be as it should be - you can't have a top ten quarterback sit anymore. Eli himself proved that and it is true. He needs to begin truly learning the position and the only way to do that is to be on the field asap.
I guess the truth for me is, waiting another six to ten years before we win another Lombardi trophy is just not acceptable for me... I do think we have the talent with a few additional pieces to compete in the next two years so I choose to believe in Eli...
We will know soon enough what Gettleman believes.
By passing up a QB this year, I think it's far more likely that you'll wait longer than 6-10 years for a quarterback. Leaving Eli out of it for a second, there's just so much that goes into winning a SB. With a new coaching staff and system on both sides of the ball, it'll take time for things to gel. Given the brutal nature of the Giants schedule it may be too late to turn things around and make the playoffs by then. What about injuries? That's luck for the most part so a few key injuries in either or both of those seasons derail those dreams.
That's my biggest frustration with how this organization has been run. For years now it has been quick fixes and building solely for the upcoming season. Yet, given how much luck goes into winning a super bowl in the NFL the more intelligent thing to do is to build to sustain long term success and hope that over the course of a decade-plus that you have a year or two where things fall into place and you can win it all.
RE: RE: RE: Not selecting a QB is ignoring the QB Â
Just so the team has to be fortunate enough to find one at a higher point in the draft in a near future year, or worse, burn valuable draft capital to move up and select a QB in a future?
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
Maybe flip that coin and see what happens...
:-)
Well you can't fill every hole in an offseason, and you certainly can't fill every hole and future holes in an offseason.
Point remains...Manning is the guy in 2018 and probably 2019. He isn't elite. Thus the pieces around him need to be better. There wasn't a QB situation in the NFL that was worse than Manning's....CLE included. A bottom 3 OL, a bottom 3 backfield, a bottom 2 WR core. And a defense that couldnt hold a lead.
OL should be very much improved with a new LT and hopefully a new interior guy from round 2. The backfield can be enormously better with Barkley. And the WR core should be improved as a result of health. New defensive scheme with some tweaks to personnel on all levels..this team can contend.
Fair, but I could say almost the same thing with putting a Michel, Jones or Guice back there and an interior guy in Rd 3, AND I wouldn't have to mortgage the future for a QB in a future draft.
It sounds like you are under the impression it is an absolute that you have to mortgage the future to draft a QB...?
Teams that I consider to have a favorable QB situation that did not have to do that....
DAL - Prescott - 4th round
BAL - Flacco - 18th overall
CIN - Dalton - 2nd round
OAK - Carr - 2nd round
SF - Garropolo - Traded a 2nd rounder
SEA - Wilson - 3rd round
NO - Brees - 2nd round (by SD)
GB - Rodgers - 24th overall
NE - Brady - 6th round
Now....The Who's who among NFL QBs is among that group. And yes I realize you can do that for every position in the game...but that is kind of my point.
To say you have to get your QB at the top of the draft just isn't true. Forcing it can just kill a team for 5+ years.
RE: And if you have to flip a coin because you don't see enough value Â
in this draft's QBs, then get the hell out of the #2 pick.
Improve the team across multiple positions with numerous extra picks. They should all help Eli too...no?
And if his decline becomes more of a problem and the team still cannot improve its winning %, then I guess you can hope we still pick relatively high in the draft next year.
But I would still go QB this year...
I would entertain trading down for sure. NYG is in a great spot...they are going to have multiple directions to go in.
And I want to stress again...I am not against going QB at #2. I just don't like the theory that they HAVE to go QB
The only thing I disagree with is eli won't be benched and the kid will sit the year. If Eli plays well he finishes his contract. I agree a kid shouldn't sit but that is the plan and why I don't want qb
If the Giants get off to a rough start, and given the tough first half schedule this would be quite plausible especially if we don't use our prime draft asset to help the 2018 team, the pressure to see Darnold would grow geometrically... I think you are right that the plan would be to play Eli, but as we saw last year, once the playoffs become unrealistic, I think it is likely we would see the kid...
If you want me to rate this on a 1-10 scale in terms of league comparison by position:
2017
Left Tackle = 5
Left Guard = 6
Center = 5
Right Guard = 5
Right Tackle = 2
2018
Left Tackle = 9 (Solder, not the best but very good)
Left Guard = 6 (2nd round rookie or Omameh)...this could be a 7 easily
Center = 5 (Jones again, maybe a rookie steps in)
Right Guard = 5 (Jerry again, average at best)
Right Tackle = 5 (Flowers or Wheeler, anything is better than what they had in 2017)
Hi sy. Yes I am not arguing about "improvement" I'm arguing that they won't be good. Heck I say this in fun with no malice-- it was you who got me down on Omameh when you replied to me in the past.
ANd if the OLine was so rotten then how can guys like Jones and Jerry be considered "average" when you had told me Omammeh just isn't very good without lots of help. You had said he is not very good.
Thus I think it way too optimistic to think this OL will be good. Sure it might be improved. But Omammeh, Jones, Jerry and the RT imo are not considered average in this grouping. ANd just getting one draft pick in Rd 2 won't make it a good OL either.
If your view on Omammeh needed surrounding good OL around him is correct, then that only makes Eli still sub-par. Two years ago even when he had teem he was average at best, wasn't he? ANd now he is 2 years older.
What is this, the #175th thread on this exact topic?
For Fuchs sake.
Right, because no new threads is much better than a few repetitive ones? You self proclaimed thread police are proving to be the slow motion death of this site.
You read the thread title. If you were not interested, don't click on it. WE ARE LESS THAN A WEEK FROM THE DRAFT.... This site should be full of draft threads right now. Not everyone spends all winter following the minutia of this stuff. Many people are just tuning in now, and frankly, they are probably no worse off for the decision. Why bother with the daily nonsense when they can get the full rundown around this time when info and intentions seem to come into actual focus?
If this thread is not sufficiently crafted prose for your literary taste, perhaps you can start your own thread and put us all in awe of how a real pro does it??? Link - ( New Window )
Sorry, no clue where that link came from....
Actually not sure I remember ever reading that article.
I guess my phone auto filled out the form with that link for some reason.... Good thing it wasn't something more...unique for my sake! LOL
why Rosen isn't discussed more here. I think he is the guy if NYG goes QB.
There is too much to not like when it comes to Darnold
I agree with you Sy. I understand the concussions are a cause for concern, but he appears to be the best QB, the only "NFL ready" QB in the draft (well maybe Mayfield, too).
Good list. But don't put me in the category of a poster that Â
wants to force it because that is pure horse-sh_t, and a cop on the argument of picking a QB. In my amateur view, there is enough of talent at the position to make the selection a QB this year.
If the Giants think differently, fine...but then get the hell out of that #2 pick. Because surely it is worth more to several teams and the Giants can improve their roster in a different way with multiple picks.
And then address QB in some other year.
I just prescribe to the theory that RB value is throughout the draft, and moreso than any other position...
Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
So is selecting a RB #2 overall when several very good ones will be sitting there in rd 2 and 3.
You can say that about EVERY position in football. It is a poor argument
Not like you can with the RB position. There’s quality starters and pro bowl caliber players drafted late at the RB position every year. This year will be no different. No one would be surprised if Guice, Michel, Chubb, Jones, Johnson, and Penny have more productive years than Barkley.
That's out of how many guys though that were taken outside of the top 10 since Brady was drafted? I don't think anyone's arguing that it's not impossible, it's just statistically far more likely to find your franchise QB atop a draft where many consider there to be 4 of them.
I do agree with your second point. I don't think they *have* to take a quarterback but if they think there's one there with the potential to be a franchise qb then they have to do it, even if they're not certain. The upside is worth the risk far more than any other position in sports.
What's your assessment of Eli at this point and what's left in the tank? I'm genuinely curious as we all have opinions but don't necessarily know what we're looking at like you do.
But I’m tired of all the QB people saying you gotta draft your QB for the next 10-15 years, how hell do we know the QB will make it that long??? Keep hearing this over and over and it’s crazy
With that attitude then how do you know that Barkley won't get one shot in the knee and be basically a shell of what he is projected to be?
I don’t disagree, but it goes both ways. Rosen, for example, hasn’t shown the ability in college to stay healthy.
And as you say it goes both ways. SO are you going to trust the longevity of a Qb or a featured RB that gets hits hit 25-40+ times a game? I'll take the guy with 2 concussions in college. Just give him a good OL.
Darnold yes, Rosen a big no!! It’s not just the concussions....
Point remains...Manning is the guy in 2018 and probably 2019. He isn't elite. Thus the pieces around him need to be better. There wasn't a QB situation in the NFL that was worse than Manning's....CLE included. A bottom 3 OL, a bottom 3 backfield, a bottom 2 WR core. And a defense that couldnt hold a lead.
And btw, I let this one past me earlier but will respond now...
The Giants won 11 games in 2016, but only 3 in 2017.
The difference certainly wasn't a bottom 3 OL since it was the basically the same shitty pieces in each year.
The difference certainly wasn't a bottom 3 backfield since it was basically the same pieces in each year
For the BBI crowd that thinks Eli hasn't declined, the difference had to just be the lack of OBJ and the same Defense that just underperformed.
Doesn't make any sense to pick a back up qb with the 2nd pick. Davis Webb is next in line and will be great for the Giants organization for the next 15+ years.
Point remains...Manning is the guy in 2018 and probably 2019. He isn't elite. Thus the pieces around him need to be better. There wasn't a QB situation in the NFL that was worse than Manning's....CLE included. A bottom 3 OL, a bottom 3 backfield, a bottom 2 WR core. And a defense that couldnt hold a lead.
And btw, I let this one past me earlier but will respond now...
The Giants won 11 games in 2016, but only 3 in 2017.
The difference certainly wasn't a bottom 3 OL since it was the basically the same shitty pieces in each year.
The difference certainly wasn't a bottom 3 backfield since it was basically the same pieces in each year
For the BBI crowd that thinks Eli hasn't declined, the difference had to just be the lack of OBJ and the same Defense that just underperformed.
Pro Eli-Crowd...is that right?
Our offense was figured out in early 2016 and BM didn't do a damn thing about it. It's well documented.
RE: RE: RE: Not selecting a QB is ignoring the QB Â
Point remains...Manning is the guy in 2018 and probably 2019. He isn't elite. Thus the pieces around him need to be better. There wasn't a QB situation in the NFL that was worse than Manning's....CLE included. A bottom 3 OL, a bottom 3 backfield, a bottom 2 WR core. And a defense that couldnt hold a lead.
And btw, I let this one past me earlier but will respond now...
The Giants won 11 games in 2016, but only 3 in 2017.
The difference certainly wasn't a bottom 3 OL since it was the basically the same shitty pieces in each year.
The difference certainly wasn't a bottom 3 backfield since it was basically the same pieces in each year
For the BBI crowd that thinks Eli hasn't declined, the difference had to just be the lack of OBJ and the same Defense that just underperformed.
Pro Eli-Crowd...is that right?
There are plenty of arguments to refute this, but the bottom line is the new GM and HC don’t think Eli has declined. That’s really all that matters at this point.
Doesn't make any sense to pick a back up qb with the 2nd pick. Davis Webb is next in line and will be great for the Giants organization for the next 15+ years.
Quote:
But I’m tired of all the QB people saying you gotta draft your QB for the next 10-15 years, how hell do we know the QB will make it that long??? Keep hearing this over and over and it’s crazy
With that attitude then how do you know that Barkley won't get one shot in the knee and be basically a shell of what he is projected to be?
I don’t disagree, but it goes both ways. Rosen, for example, hasn’t shown the ability in college to stay healthy.
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
Maybe flip that coin and see what happens...
:-)
If they aren’t sold on the guys this year, you would be better off waiting and trading up if you like a guy in a future year rather than force one now.
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
Maybe flip that coin and see what happens...
:-)
Well you can't fill every hole in an offseason, and you certainly can't fill every hole and future holes in an offseason.
Point remains...Manning is the guy in 2018 and probably 2019. He isn't elite. Thus the pieces around him need to be better. There wasn't a QB situation in the NFL that was worse than Manning's....CLE included. A bottom 3 OL, a bottom 3 backfield, a bottom 2 WR core. And a defense that couldnt hold a lead.
OL should be very much improved with a new LT and hopefully a new interior guy from round 2. The backfield can be enormously better with Barkley. And the WR core should be improved as a result of health. New defensive scheme with some tweaks to personnel on all levels..this team can contend.
Quote:
In comment 13924164 OBJRoyal said:
Quote:
But I’m tired of all the QB people saying you gotta draft your QB for the next 10-15 years, how hell do we know the QB will make it that long??? Keep hearing this over and over and it’s crazy
With that attitude then how do you know that Barkley won't get one shot in the knee and be basically a shell of what he is projected to be?
I don’t disagree, but it goes both ways. Rosen, for example, hasn’t shown the ability in college to stay healthy.
And as you say it goes both ways. SO are you going to trust the longevity of a Qb or a featured RB that gets hits hit 25-40+ times a game? I'll take the guy with 2 concussions in college. Just give him a good OL.
Quote:
Just so the team has to be fortunate enough to find one at a higher point in the draft in a near future year, or worse, burn valuable draft capital to move up and select a QB in a future?
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
Maybe flip that coin and see what happens...
:-)
Well you can't fill every hole in an offseason, and you certainly can't fill every hole and future holes in an offseason.
Point remains...Manning is the guy in 2018 and probably 2019. He isn't elite. Thus the pieces around him need to be better. There wasn't a QB situation in the NFL that was worse than Manning's....CLE included. A bottom 3 OL, a bottom 3 backfield, a bottom 2 WR core. And a defense that couldnt hold a lead.
OL should be very much improved with a new LT and hopefully a new interior guy from round 2. The backfield can be enormously better with Barkley. And the WR core should be improved as a result of health. New defensive scheme with some tweaks to personnel on all levels..this team can contend.
Best post of the entire thread.
1. Many want a qb
2. Many want Barkley
3. Many want Chubb
4. Many want trade down
Most here won't be happy if it doesn't go there way. People don't even agree on the teams goals. Many think they want to win now. Many feel that's impossible. This draft is clearly the most polarizing draft in a long time
Quote:
Just so the team has to be fortunate enough to find one at a higher point in the draft in a near future year, or worse, burn valuable draft capital to move up and select a QB in a future?
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
Maybe flip that coin and see what happens...
:-)
If they aren’t sold on the guys this year, you would be better off waiting and trading up if you like a guy in a future year rather than force one now.
No disrespect...but no shit. Its my view there is enough QB value in this draft and enough declining value at the position on the current roster to "get sold".
Quote:
Just so the team has to be fortunate enough to find one at a higher point in the draft in a near future year, or worse, burn valuable draft capital to move up and select a QB in a future?
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
Maybe flip that coin and see what happens...
:-)
Well you can't fill every hole in an offseason, and you certainly can't fill every hole and future holes in an offseason.
Point remains...Manning is the guy in 2018 and probably 2019. He isn't elite. Thus the pieces around him need to be better. There wasn't a QB situation in the NFL that was worse than Manning's....CLE included. A bottom 3 OL, a bottom 3 backfield, a bottom 2 WR core. And a defense that couldnt hold a lead.
OL should be very much improved with a new LT and hopefully a new interior guy from round 2. The backfield can be enormously better with Barkley. And the WR core should be improved as a result of health. New defensive scheme with some tweaks to personnel on all levels..this team can contend.
How much si the Oline going to be better?
Didn't you say the guard Omameh isn't very good? I think you went on to sya he needs good surrounding OLinemen. Yet isn't Jones just "average?"
And even if the Giants get a 2nd Rd OL guard, there is no assurance in year he will be good. And then add in the situation at RT.
SO when you say "The OL" should be "much improved"- we have to take that into context right? It sill be highly unlikely they are good, right?
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In comment 13924187 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Just so the team has to be fortunate enough to find one at a higher point in the draft in a near future year, or worse, burn valuable draft capital to move up and select a QB in a future?
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
Maybe flip that coin and see what happens...
:-)
If they aren’t sold on the guys this year, you would be better off waiting and trading up if you like a guy in a future year rather than force one now.
No disrespect...but no shit. Its my view there is enough QB value in this draft and enough declining value at the position on the current roster to "get sold".
And I feel the exact opposite about this years QB’s. Agree to disagree.
1. Many want a qb
2. Many want Barkley
3. Many want Chubb
4. Many want trade down
Most here won't be happy if it doesn't go there way. People don't even agree on the teams goals. Many think they want to win now. Many feel that's impossible. This draft is clearly the most polarizing draft in a long time
Both can be true, the organization can want to win now and it can also be impossible :). That's where I'm at
1. Many want a qb
2. Many want Barkley
3. Many want Chubb
4. Many want trade down
Most here won't be happy if it doesn't go there way. People don't even agree on the teams goals. Many think they want to win now. Many feel that's impossible. This draft is clearly the most polarizing draft in a long time
I think we should go QB.
But I'm confused why you think so many that have opposing views is relevant. So what?
If the Giants don't go QB-- we just have to believe they are right/ have a plan that will work.
I have been steadfast in my support of Eli mainly because it is the only path to a championship in the next two years. I believe that his mediocre play these past six years is due to the lack of supporting talent, abysmal coaching and an offensive scheme that has been misaligned with his talent. With Barkley, a solid draft and the recent additions through free agency and trades, I am confident we will see a resurgence from Eli and a return to playoff form immediately. And if we do make the playoffs, I wouldn't bet against Eli vs any quarterback in the league - ever.
If you don't believe in Eli, I get it. He has made you very frustrated in recent years and you want a new era of offense characterized by a more mobile "Aaron Rodgers-esque" quarterback talent. Maybe Darnold is that guy. But here's the thing. The likelihood that a new quarterback leads a team like the Giants quickly to a championship is very low. Can it happen quickly? Yes - Roethlisberger and Brady did it in their first year as a starter. But they are truly exceptions. The median of the four top first round quarterback draft picks in the last 35 years - Elway, Aikman, Peyton and Eli Manning - is six years. Andrew Luck, the very best quarterback drafted in the 21st century, is 3-3 in the playoffs and I am not sure that he will ever win a championship. And if Darnold is a bust, forget it. You can add five years on top of the six... as Gettleman stated on Thursday.
If Gettleman does draft Darnold, then he is essentially announcing that he does not believe that the Giants can win now with Eli. Yes, he will utter lots of politically correct statements saying he is just being prudent. But the whispers will start to grow and, like Eli himself in 2004, Darnold will be the starter just after the bye on Monday night November 12, 2018 against the 49ers facing Garoppolo. It will be high drama. And Garoppolo will demonstrate that he is far ahead of Darnold. But this will be as it should be - you can't have a top ten quarterback sit anymore. Eli himself proved that and it is true. He needs to begin truly learning the position and the only way to do that is to be on the field asap.
I guess the truth for me is, waiting another six to ten years before we win another Lombardi trophy is just not acceptable for me... I do think we have the talent with a few additional pieces to compete in the next two years so I choose to believe in Eli...
We will know soon enough what Gettleman believes.
Quote:
Just so the team has to be fortunate enough to find one at a higher point in the draft in a near future year, or worse, burn valuable draft capital to move up and select a QB in a future?
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
Maybe flip that coin and see what happens...
:-)
Well you can't fill every hole in an offseason, and you certainly can't fill every hole and future holes in an offseason.
Point remains...Manning is the guy in 2018 and probably 2019. He isn't elite. Thus the pieces around him need to be better. There wasn't a QB situation in the NFL that was worse than Manning's....CLE included. A bottom 3 OL, a bottom 3 backfield, a bottom 2 WR core. And a defense that couldnt hold a lead.
OL should be very much improved with a new LT and hopefully a new interior guy from round 2. The backfield can be enormously better with Barkley. And the WR core should be improved as a result of health. New defensive scheme with some tweaks to personnel on all levels..this team can contend.
Fair, but I could say almost the same thing with putting a Michel, Jones or Guice back there and an interior guy in Rd 3, AND I wouldn't have to mortgage the future for a QB in a future draft.
2017
Left Tackle = 5
Left Guard = 6
Center = 5
Right Guard = 5
Right Tackle = 2
2018
Left Tackle = 9 (Solder, not the best but very good)
Left Guard = 6 (2nd round rookie or Omameh)...this could be a 7 easily
Center = 5 (Jones again, maybe a rookie steps in)
Right Guard = 5 (Jerry again, average at best)
Right Tackle = 5 (Flowers or Wheeler, anything is better than what they had in 2017)
I have been steadfast in my support of Eli mainly because it is the only path to a championship in the next two years. I believe that his mediocre play these past six years is due to the lack of supporting talent, abysmal coaching and an offensive scheme that has been misaligned with his talent. With Barkley, a solid draft and the recent additions through free agency and trades, I am confident we will see a resurgence from Eli and a return to playoff form immediately. And if we do make the playoffs, I wouldn't bet against Eli vs any quarterback in the league - ever.
If you don't believe in Eli, I get it. He has made you very frustrated in recent years and you want a new era of offense characterized by a more mobile "Aaron Rodgers-esque" quarterback talent. Maybe Darnold is that guy. But here's the thing. The likelihood that a new quarterback leads a team like the Giants quickly to a championship is very low. Can it happen quickly? Yes - Roethlisberger and Brady did it in their first year as a starter. But they are truly exceptions. The median of the four top first round quarterback draft picks in the last 35 years - Elway, Aikman, Peyton and Eli Manning - is six years. Andrew Luck, the very best quarterback drafted in the 21st century, is 3-3 in the playoffs and I am not sure that he will ever win a championship. And if Darnold is a bust, forget it. You can add five years on top of the six... as Gettleman stated on Thursday.
If Gettleman does draft Darnold, then he is essentially announcing that he does not believe that the Giants can win now with Eli. Yes, he will utter lots of politically correct statements saying he is just being prudent. But the whispers will start to grow and, like Eli himself in 2004, Darnold will be the starter just after the bye on Monday night November 12, 2018 against the 49ers facing Garoppolo. It will be high drama. And Garoppolo will demonstrate that he is far ahead of Darnold. But this will be as it should be - you can't have a top ten quarterback sit anymore. Eli himself proved that and it is true. He needs to begin truly learning the position and the only way to do that is to be on the field asap.
I guess the truth for me is, waiting another six to ten years before we win another Lombardi trophy is just not acceptable for me... I do think we have the talent with a few additional pieces to compete in the next two years so I choose to believe in Eli...
We will know soon enough what Gettleman believes.
Well said. In today’s league of constant player movement and overall parity it is more than plausible for the Giants to bounce back this year and be a contender. Look no further than the Jaguars this past season. They went from being one of the leagues worst teams to a few plays away from a Super Bowl in one season.
Improve the team across multiple positions with numerous extra picks. They should all help Eli too...no?
And if his decline becomes more of a problem and the team still cannot improve its winning %, then I guess you can hope we still pick relatively high in the draft next year.
But I would still go QB this year...
I have been steadfast in my support of Eli mainly because it is the only path to a championship in the next two years. I believe that his mediocre play these past six years is due to the lack of supporting talent, abysmal coaching and an offensive scheme that has been misaligned with his talent. With Barkley, a solid draft and the recent additions through free agency and trades, I am confident we will see a resurgence from Eli and a return to playoff form immediately. And if we do make the playoffs, I wouldn't bet against Eli vs any quarterback in the league - ever.
If you don't believe in Eli, I get it. He has made you very frustrated in recent years and you want a new era of offense characterized by a more mobile "Aaron Rodgers-esque" quarterback talent. Maybe Darnold is that guy. But here's the thing. The likelihood that a new quarterback leads a team like the Giants quickly to a championship is very low. Can it happen quickly? Yes - Roethlisberger and Brady did it in their first year as a starter. But they are truly exceptions. The median of the four top first round quarterback draft picks in the last 35 years - Elway, Aikman, Peyton and Eli Manning - is six years. Andrew Luck, the very best quarterback drafted in the 21st century, is 3-3 in the playoffs and I am not sure that he will ever win a championship. And if Darnold is a bust, forget it. You can add five years on top of the six... as Gettleman stated on Thursday.
If Gettleman does draft Darnold, then he is essentially announcing that he does not believe that the Giants can win now with Eli. Yes, he will utter lots of politically correct statements saying he is just being prudent. But the whispers will start to grow and, like Eli himself in 2004, Darnold will be the starter just after the bye on Monday night November 12, 2018 against the 49ers facing Garoppolo. It will be high drama. And Garoppolo will demonstrate that he is far ahead of Darnold. But this will be as it should be - you can't have a top ten quarterback sit anymore. Eli himself proved that and it is true. He needs to begin truly learning the position and the only way to do that is to be on the field asap.
I guess the truth for me is, waiting another six to ten years before we win another Lombardi trophy is just not acceptable for me... I do think we have the talent with a few additional pieces to compete in the next two years so I choose to believe in Eli...
We will know soon enough what Gettleman believes.
By passing up a QB this year, I think it's far more likely that you'll wait longer than 6-10 years for a quarterback. Leaving Eli out of it for a second, there's just so much that goes into winning a SB. With a new coaching staff and system on both sides of the ball, it'll take time for things to gel. Given the brutal nature of the Giants schedule it may be too late to turn things around and make the playoffs by then. What about injuries? That's luck for the most part so a few key injuries in either or both of those seasons derail those dreams.
That's my biggest frustration with how this organization has been run. For years now it has been quick fixes and building solely for the upcoming season. Yet, given how much luck goes into winning a super bowl in the NFL the more intelligent thing to do is to build to sustain long term success and hope that over the course of a decade-plus that you have a year or two where things fall into place and you can win it all.
Quote:
In comment 13924187 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Just so the team has to be fortunate enough to find one at a higher point in the draft in a near future year, or worse, burn valuable draft capital to move up and select a QB in a future?
How is that helping make the pieces around the next guy better too?
Maybe flip that coin and see what happens...
:-)
Well you can't fill every hole in an offseason, and you certainly can't fill every hole and future holes in an offseason.
Point remains...Manning is the guy in 2018 and probably 2019. He isn't elite. Thus the pieces around him need to be better. There wasn't a QB situation in the NFL that was worse than Manning's....CLE included. A bottom 3 OL, a bottom 3 backfield, a bottom 2 WR core. And a defense that couldnt hold a lead.
OL should be very much improved with a new LT and hopefully a new interior guy from round 2. The backfield can be enormously better with Barkley. And the WR core should be improved as a result of health. New defensive scheme with some tweaks to personnel on all levels..this team can contend.
Fair, but I could say almost the same thing with putting a Michel, Jones or Guice back there and an interior guy in Rd 3, AND I wouldn't have to mortgage the future for a QB in a future draft.
It sounds like you are under the impression it is an absolute that you have to mortgage the future to draft a QB...?
Teams that I consider to have a favorable QB situation that did not have to do that....
DAL - Prescott - 4th round
BAL - Flacco - 18th overall
CIN - Dalton - 2nd round
OAK - Carr - 2nd round
SF - Garropolo - Traded a 2nd rounder
SEA - Wilson - 3rd round
NO - Brees - 2nd round (by SD)
GB - Rodgers - 24th overall
NE - Brady - 6th round
Now....The Who's who among NFL QBs is among that group. And yes I realize you can do that for every position in the game...but that is kind of my point.
To say you have to get your QB at the top of the draft just isn't true. Forcing it can just kill a team for 5+ years.
Improve the team across multiple positions with numerous extra picks. They should all help Eli too...no?
And if his decline becomes more of a problem and the team still cannot improve its winning %, then I guess you can hope we still pick relatively high in the draft next year.
But I would still go QB this year...
I would entertain trading down for sure. NYG is in a great spot...they are going to have multiple directions to go in.
And I want to stress again...I am not against going QB at #2. I just don't like the theory that they HAVE to go QB
If the Giants get off to a rough start, and given the tough first half schedule this would be quite plausible especially if we don't use our prime draft asset to help the 2018 team, the pressure to see Darnold would grow geometrically... I think you are right that the plan would be to play Eli, but as we saw last year, once the playoffs become unrealistic, I think it is likely we would see the kid...
2017
Left Tackle = 5
Left Guard = 6
Center = 5
Right Guard = 5
Right Tackle = 2
2018
Left Tackle = 9 (Solder, not the best but very good)
Left Guard = 6 (2nd round rookie or Omameh)...this could be a 7 easily
Center = 5 (Jones again, maybe a rookie steps in)
Right Guard = 5 (Jerry again, average at best)
Right Tackle = 5 (Flowers or Wheeler, anything is better than what they had in 2017)
Hi sy. Yes I am not arguing about "improvement" I'm arguing that they won't be good. Heck I say this in fun with no malice-- it was you who got me down on Omameh when you replied to me in the past.
ANd if the OLine was so rotten then how can guys like Jones and Jerry be considered "average" when you had told me Omammeh just isn't very good without lots of help. You had said he is not very good.
Thus I think it way too optimistic to think this OL will be good. Sure it might be improved. But Omammeh, Jones, Jerry and the RT imo are not considered average in this grouping. ANd just getting one draft pick in Rd 2 won't make it a good OL either.
If your view on Omammeh needed surrounding good OL around him is correct, then that only makes Eli still sub-par. Two years ago even when he had teem he was average at best, wasn't he? ANd now he is 2 years older.
Quote:
This mindless banter.
What is this, the #175th thread on this exact topic?
For Fuchs sake.
Right, because no new threads is much better than a few repetitive ones? You self proclaimed thread police are proving to be the slow motion death of this site.
You read the thread title. If you were not interested, don't click on it. WE ARE LESS THAN A WEEK FROM THE DRAFT.... This site should be full of draft threads right now. Not everyone spends all winter following the minutia of this stuff. Many people are just tuning in now, and frankly, they are probably no worse off for the decision. Why bother with the daily nonsense when they can get the full rundown around this time when info and intentions seem to come into actual focus?
If this thread is not sufficiently crafted prose for your literary taste, perhaps you can start your own thread and put us all in awe of how a real pro does it??? Link - ( New Window )
Sorry, no clue where that link came from....
Actually not sure I remember ever reading that article.
I guess my phone auto filled out the form with that link for some reason.... Good thing it wasn't something more...unique for my sake! LOL
There is too much to not like when it comes to Darnold
I agree with you Sy. I understand the concussions are a cause for concern, but he appears to be the best QB, the only "NFL ready" QB in the draft (well maybe Mayfield, too).
If the Giants think differently, fine...but then get the hell out of that #2 pick. Because surely it is worth more to several teams and the Giants can improve their roster in a different way with multiple picks.
And then address QB in some other year.
I just prescribe to the theory that RB value is throughout the draft, and moreso than any other position...
Quote:
In comment 13924100 jtgiants said:
Quote:
Agreed if he sits for a year. The issue is he'll sit for at least 2 if eli plays well. That's a fact. Trust me. Sitting for 2 years is awful asset management in a cap world.
So is selecting a RB #2 overall when several very good ones will be sitting there in rd 2 and 3.
You can say that about EVERY position in football. It is a poor argument
Not like you can with the RB position. There’s quality starters and pro bowl caliber players drafted late at the RB position every year. This year will be no different. No one would be surprised if Guice, Michel, Chubb, Jones, Johnson, and Penny have more productive years than Barkley.
I do agree with your second point. I don't think they *have* to take a quarterback but if they think there's one there with the potential to be a franchise qb then they have to do it, even if they're not certain. The upside is worth the risk far more than any other position in sports.
What's your assessment of Eli at this point and what's left in the tank? I'm genuinely curious as we all have opinions but don't necessarily know what we're looking at like you do.
Sy - your QB rankings aren't out there yet? I figured they would be based on your preference to Barkley in this thread.
What's the ETA?
And thanks for those posts btw. Its a nice add to BBI for certain to have your input...
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In comment 13924178 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 13924164 OBJRoyal said:
Quote:
But I’m tired of all the QB people saying you gotta draft your QB for the next 10-15 years, how hell do we know the QB will make it that long??? Keep hearing this over and over and it’s crazy
With that attitude then how do you know that Barkley won't get one shot in the knee and be basically a shell of what he is projected to be?
I don’t disagree, but it goes both ways. Rosen, for example, hasn’t shown the ability in college to stay healthy.
And as you say it goes both ways. SO are you going to trust the longevity of a Qb or a featured RB that gets hits hit 25-40+ times a game? I'll take the guy with 2 concussions in college. Just give him a good OL.
Darnold yes, Rosen a big no!! It’s not just the concussions....
Yeah, fumblitis....
Darnold yes, Rosen a big no!! It’s not just the concussions....
Ok, what is it besides concussions/medical? He is clearly the best QB coming out. So his floor is already well above the others.
Quote:
Good points. I’m looking forward to your QB rankings to see if any second tier prospects could be NYG fits.
Sy - your QB rankings aren't out there yet? I figured they would be based on your preference to Barkley in this thread.
What's the ETA?
And thanks for those posts btw. Its a nice add to BBI for certain to have your input...
Aiming for Monday
I love Barkley, but I am not all in on taking him over my top rated QB
Point remains...Manning is the guy in 2018 and probably 2019. He isn't elite. Thus the pieces around him need to be better. There wasn't a QB situation in the NFL that was worse than Manning's....CLE included. A bottom 3 OL, a bottom 3 backfield, a bottom 2 WR core. And a defense that couldnt hold a lead.
And btw, I let this one past me earlier but will respond now...
The Giants won 11 games in 2016, but only 3 in 2017.
The difference certainly wasn't a bottom 3 OL since it was the basically the same shitty pieces in each year.
The difference certainly wasn't a bottom 3 backfield since it was basically the same pieces in each year
For the BBI crowd that thinks Eli hasn't declined, the difference had to just be the lack of OBJ and the same Defense that just underperformed.
Pro Eli-Crowd...is that right?
Quote:
Point remains...Manning is the guy in 2018 and probably 2019. He isn't elite. Thus the pieces around him need to be better. There wasn't a QB situation in the NFL that was worse than Manning's....CLE included. A bottom 3 OL, a bottom 3 backfield, a bottom 2 WR core. And a defense that couldnt hold a lead.
And btw, I let this one past me earlier but will respond now...
The Giants won 11 games in 2016, but only 3 in 2017.
The difference certainly wasn't a bottom 3 OL since it was the basically the same shitty pieces in each year.
The difference certainly wasn't a bottom 3 backfield since it was basically the same pieces in each year
For the BBI crowd that thinks Eli hasn't declined, the difference had to just be the lack of OBJ and the same Defense that just underperformed.
Pro Eli-Crowd...is that right?
Our offense was figured out in early 2016 and BM didn't do a damn thing about it. It's well documented.
Quote:
Point remains...Manning is the guy in 2018 and probably 2019. He isn't elite. Thus the pieces around him need to be better. There wasn't a QB situation in the NFL that was worse than Manning's....CLE included. A bottom 3 OL, a bottom 3 backfield, a bottom 2 WR core. And a defense that couldnt hold a lead.
And btw, I let this one past me earlier but will respond now...
The Giants won 11 games in 2016, but only 3 in 2017.
The difference certainly wasn't a bottom 3 OL since it was the basically the same shitty pieces in each year.
The difference certainly wasn't a bottom 3 backfield since it was basically the same pieces in each year
For the BBI crowd that thinks Eli hasn't declined, the difference had to just be the lack of OBJ and the same Defense that just underperformed.
Pro Eli-Crowd...is that right?
There are plenty of arguments to refute this, but the bottom line is the new GM and HC don’t think Eli has declined. That’s really all that matters at this point.
Quote:
In comment 13924241 Sean said:
Quote:
Good points. I’m looking forward to your QB rankings to see if any second tier prospects could be NYG fits.
Sy - your QB rankings aren't out there yet? I figured they would be based on your preference to Barkley in this thread.
What's the ETA?
And thanks for those posts btw. Its a nice add to BBI for certain to have your input...
Aiming for Monday
I love Barkley, but I am not all in on taking him over my top rated QB
Sy flip-flopping again?
Quote:
In comment 13924241 Sean said:
Quote:
Good points. I’m looking forward to your QB rankings to see if any second tier prospects could be NYG fits.
Sy - your QB rankings aren't out there yet? I figured they would be based on your preference to Barkley in this thread.
What's the ETA?
And thanks for those posts btw. Its a nice add to BBI for certain to have your input...
Aiming for Monday
I love Barkley, but I am not all in on taking him over my top rated QB
Nice Sy. Again, appreciate your adds to the site.
And for those who need a sneak preview...his top ranked QB is going to be Rosen.
Quote:
In comment 13924257 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13924241 Sean said:
Quote:
Good points. I’m looking forward to your QB rankings to see if any second tier prospects could be NYG fits.
Sy - your QB rankings aren't out there yet? I figured they would be based on your preference to Barkley in this thread.
What's the ETA?
And thanks for those posts btw. Its a nice add to BBI for certain to have your input...
Aiming for Monday
I love Barkley, but I am not all in on taking him over my top rated QB
Nice Sy. Again, appreciate your adds to the site.
And for those who need a sneak preview...his top ranked QB is going to be Rosen.
The play is Rosen or trade down in my opinion.