I know most will disagree with this. I'm of the opinion that whatever talk there is about drafting Barkley, is more a smokescreen to entice the Browns to move up to 2. But, that's not my main point. With regard to rounds 2 and 3, I would much rather the Giants beefed up the OL (and secondary) before RB unless the RB value is off the charts. Solder is a huge upgrade protecting Eli's blind side. The OG we signed seems like another Jerry type, maybe a little better. I'm not asking for a great OL, just a decent or adequate. Build up the OL and Gallman, Perkins and Stewart will be effective especially with Beckham, Engram, etc downfied. Eli needs the threat of play action to be effective and get rid of the yips. You can draft Barkley or Michel or any one of the RBs projected to go 1st or 2nd round and they will not be effective running behind last years line and this years OL to date needs lots of improvement. An RB on the 2nd and probably 3rd round is a luxury until the OL is respectable.
I think the secondary needs and upgrade too, more important than RB but that's a different conversation.
The restructuring of this team will not really be successful until we get a new QB in there. But jamming an elite RB in there when several good ones will do just fine is a poor use of draft collateral.
The restructuring of this team will not really be successful until we get a new QB in there. But jamming an elite RB in there when several good ones will do just fine is a poor use of draft collateral.
The Giants have failed at finding "good RB's that will do just fine." Gallman is not a main guy, neither is Darkwa or Perkins or any of the other scrubs that we have tried to plug in there. People are falling in love too much with what Hunt and Kamara did from their positions without realizing that if that draft were re-drafted they would be top 10 if not top 5 picks.
No one can predict the future but Barkley is the best player in the draft by everyones standard and its not even close. The rating of the second best RB after Barkley is way down. It makes zero sense to pass on a HOF caliber prospect just to get possibly a good one later. You grab the great ones when you have a chance to.
As far as the team, the team doesn't have to restructure. They have good pieces on offense and on defense. They need to fill in gaps but they are closer to competing than they are to rebuilding. They have a vet QB who CAN still play and they have a young guy. Build more around them and give it a roll. This team cannot afford having yet another guy they draft not playing and waiting 3-4 years to see whether or not he can play.
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my feelings going into this draft are directionally the same.
The restructuring of this team will not really be successful until we get a new QB in there. But jamming an elite RB in there when several good ones will do just fine is a poor use of draft collateral.
The Giants have failed at finding "good RB's that will do just fine." Gallman is not a main guy, neither is Darkwa or Perkins or any of the other scrubs that we have tried to plug in there. People are falling in love too much with what Hunt and Kamara did from their positions without realizing that if that draft were re-drafted they would be top 10 if not top 5 picks.
No one can predict the future but Barkley is the best player in the draft by everyones standard and its not even close. The rating of the second best RB after Barkley is way down. It makes zero sense to pass on a HOF caliber prospect just to get possibly a good one later. You grab the great ones when you have a chance to.
As far as the team, the team doesn't have to restructure. They have good pieces on offense and on defense. They need to fill in gaps but they are closer to competing than they are to rebuilding. They have a vet QB who CAN still play and they have a young guy. Build more around them and give it a roll. This team cannot afford having yet another guy they draft not playing and waiting 3-4 years to see whether or not he can play.
Agreed. Drafting a QB @2 out of desperation when you dont need one right now is silly if you have guys graded out higher. Take the best player available.
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my feelings going into this draft are directionally the same.
The restructuring of this team will not really be successful until we get a new QB in there. But jamming an elite RB in there when several good ones will do just fine is a poor use of draft collateral.
The Giants have failed at finding "good RB's that will do just fine." Gallman is not a main guy, neither is Darkwa or Perkins or any of the other scrubs that we have tried to plug in there. People are falling in love too much with what Hunt and Kamara did from their positions without realizing that if that draft were re-drafted they would be top 10 if not top 5 picks.
No one can predict the future but Barkley is the best player in the draft by everyones standard and its not even close. The rating of the second best RB after Barkley is way down. It makes zero sense to pass on a HOF caliber prospect just to get possibly a good one later. You grab the great ones when you have a chance to.
As far as the team, the team doesn't have to restructure. They have good pieces on offense and on defense. They need to fill in gaps but they are closer to competing than they are to rebuilding. They have a vet QB who CAN still play and they have a young guy. Build more around them and give it a roll. This team cannot afford having yet another guy they draft not playing and waiting 3-4 years to see whether or not he can play.
I will put your QB views aside for now as we are adamantly on different wave lengths.
Regarding RBs though...interesting. I think Perkins, Gallman and a rookie 2nd round pick (Michel or Guice) offer up quite a backfield for the NY Giants.
If Eli and an O-line needs more than those 3 guys (knowing that we have Ellison and Engram already) to have a successful running game than I don't know what to tell you...
No, they are above average, but not elite, but you would never know with a shit oline and shit QB play.
If you feel an elite RB is the difference between winning and losing than let me LOL at you...
We can trace the decline in record to the OL decomposing, but look at the backs we've used since Bradshaw left.
From 2013, we've had:
Andre Brown
Peyton Hillis
David Wilson
Andre Williams
Rashad Jennings
Orleans Darkwa
Michael Cox
Shane Vereen
Paul Perkins
Wayne Gallman
Bobby Rainey
There's a valid debate on the worth of a back at #2, but if you don't think an excellent back would lift up the offense better than the mass of mediocrity we've had at the position, I don't know what to say. This is like seeing the difference Engram made after watching Tye and Donnell for a few years.
At the very least, we have the leverage to call the Jets and give them the opportunity to move up without having to worry about another team jumping them for a QB. Get an asset then take Barkley, fine, but not maximizing our leverage would be absolutely foolish.
Trade back with the Jets, pick up at least a 3rd and 4th. Move to 3. At 3, see how badly the Browns want Barkley, or check in with teams looking for a QB. Make a move only if you can stay in the top 6 to remain locked into one of Barkley/Chubb/Nelson, otherwise go BPA, presumably Barkley
Tiki was a 2nd rounder. Jacobs was a 4th rounder. And Bradshaw was a 7th rounder.
Think again, and let me know when you wake up...
Tiki was a 2nd rounder. Jacobs was a 4th rounder. And Bradshaw was a 7th rounder.
Think again, and let me know when you wake up...
And Tom Brady was a 6rd pick, whats your point?
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the offense. But at the sake of forgoing what that would deflate it?
Tiki was a 2nd rounder. Jacobs was a 4th rounder. And Bradshaw was a 7th rounder.
Think again, and let me know when you wake up...
And Tom Brady was a 6rd pick, whats your point?
Anybody on this site that reminds me that Brady was a 6th round pick and wants to build a team around that view, is a moron...
yeah and Gurley looked like shit when he had no OL two seasons ago.
And I never said "reach" for anything. I thing the QBs in Rd 1 of this draft and a RB in Rd 2 or 3 are worth far more than Rbs in Rd 1. So sue me...
This post tells me you are lost in space...
QB
RB
WR
CB
S
LB
This isnt Madden
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pick for a position you already have a player to play over a superior graded player is a moron. If QB is the best player on their board theyll probably draft him. Im not sure one is
This post tells me you are lost in space...
Tell me that after the draft
QB
RB
WR
CB
S
LB
This isnt Madden
What are you talking about? Nobody says that boards are set by position but the #2 pick ind of narrows things down...no?
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In comment 13924472 sharpshooter66 said:
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pick for a position you already have a player to play over a superior graded player is a moron. If QB is the best player on their board theyll probably draft him. Im not sure one is
This post tells me you are lost in space...
Tell me that after the draft
No, I will tell you now Will Robinson...
+1
I get the QB thing but I can't sit here and say that any of them wow me . Mayfield is an exciting competitor but I think out of the top 5 I would have Mayfield at #4
Having a 230Lb RB thats a HR hitter paired with OBJ Engram and Shepard is something most NFL teams lack . In terms of
big play capability . Who will be opposite OBJ ? If a guy like Powe could take a big step this season I don't think Lewis will but we need someone there preferably with some size .
I don't to take Barkley because Eli is not fine and/or those QBs available to draft are.
Its not because of Barkley at all...
A running back IS NOT more important than a QB. IF your QB is a weak link, you are not winning a championship no matter who your RB is. This is a fact and if asked to back it up with data, I would simply point to the NFL teams themselves and how they value their players.
Last year the top 16 paid players in the league were QBs until you got to Von Miller at #17.
There is NO running back who is in the top 125 player current contracts (total value).
When you just look at what players earned last season, the top RB was Leveon Bell and he was all the way down at #47.
These guys do not last and they are often injured. If you get 5-6 high performing years out of a RB then consider yourself lucky. You cannot pass on a QB with the potential to be a productive starter for 12-15 years (when your current QB is about done) for a RB with the 2nd pick.
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with a board like this
QB
RB
WR
CB
S
LB
This isnt Madden
What are you talking about? Nobody says that boards are set by position but the #2 pick ind of narrows things down...no?
Actually, didn't Gettleman say that position *is* a dimension for how they set up their draft board?
You create offensive opportunities through scheme and mismatches. Not one of the running backs on our roster is a mismatch for even the most average NFL linebacker.
You create offensive opportunities through scheme and mismatches. Not one of the running backs on our roster is a mismatch for even the most average NFL linebacker.
Not sure where you learned the game of football, but with the running game the mismatch is created on the line of scrimmage.
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with Perkins, Gallman and Stewart in the backfield. Defenses will do what they did in the past - shift coverage to Beckham and not worry about a slew of marginal running backs.
You create offensive opportunities through scheme and mismatches. Not one of the running backs on our roster is a mismatch for even the most average NFL linebacker.
Not sure where you learned the game of football, but with the running game the mismatch is created on the line of scrimmage.
Who carries the ball doesn't matter? Whether they are a threat to catch passes out of the backfield doesn't matter? Whether they can pick up a blitz doesn't matter? All RBs are the same?
You should watch more football because it is much more nuanced and complex than that silly oversimplification you just posted.
You create offensive opportunities through scheme and mismatches. Not one of the running backs on our roster is a mismatch for even the most average NFL linebacker.
Yeah, Brady and the Patriots are excellent at play action because of all their stud RBs thru the years...
Nobody would disagree that a good Oline is critical to a good running game, which is necessary for effective play action. But the problem in the modern NFL is that college is not producing a lot of top talent on the Oline. Building a dominant offensive line is more difficult now than it ever has been.
I think people who want to build a road-grader type line will find that that is the exception now, not the norm. The line talent that was around years ago is just harder to find. Rather than trying to buck that trend, upgrade the weak spots, and then leverage scheme and skill position matchups that will slow pass rushes and keep defenders off balance.