I think its always important to look big picture rather than the current hubbub by the media over the pick.
When we look big picture at the Giant organizations intentions rather than the current maneuverings of the GM and remember the condition in which he was hired under.
Lets look back to last year and we find that the Giants actually tried trading UP in the draft for QB Pat Mahomes.
ESPN's Anita Marks reported Friday that the Giants tried to trade up for Mahomes, but ultimately failed in that endeavor. Now, the Giants are "very upset."
What we found is that the Giants were in a trade competition for Mahomes and lost
“Last year with Patrick (Mahomes), there were four or five teams that desperately wanted him, so it just set up a trade scenario. It was just a function of how high would Kansas City go above Arizona and the New York Giants and different teams who were interested to get him. So Nic’s job is to impress an individual team in this process.”
This should be an important lesson for the Giants as well. Its not so easy to just get a QB any year and especially if you need to move up and get.
So, what did the media know beforehand as the Giants obviously were heavily interested in Mahomes to attemp a trade up.
I linked an article by Paul Schwartz of the New York Post as he has been a name heavily involved in this years media narrative of Giants draft plans.
Schwartz did not cite a source in the article but was tipped off by the fact that McAdoo attended Mahomes Pro Day, had a private meeting with him and interviewed him at Combine. This was only QB we did that with.
This should tell us that interest level at these events is more than “due diligence” and does mean something.
In addition. Schwartz misread the signal and downplayed the Giants interest as only being if Mahomes fell all the way to Giants pick at 23, if which there was no chance with 4-5 teams attempting a trade up.
“Though it does not necessarily mean the Giants are hot after Mahomes or they are intent on taking a quarterback early in this year’s draft, they could select a quarterback in the first few rounds, if things fall a certain way.”
Mara said of the draft ‘I Was hoping we would draft a QB at some point” and referred to a Parcells quote about Webb “lets not get his bust ready for Canton yet” and having to see him play on the field until you know what you have.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-york-giants/0ap3000000807371/Mara-I-was-hoping-Giants-would-draft-a-QB-at-some-point
So if we frame this failed attempt to get a QB as a picture we also see that the Giants ownership did this is in November as Mara directed his staff to look at the QBs in this Draft.
“There was a directive given several weeks back by co-owner John Mara to start looking closely at the top college quarterbacks, multiple sources told ESPN.”
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-giants/post/_/id/54741/sources-giants-looking-closely-at-sam-darnold-top-qb-prospects
Mara as we know is the one who initiated what became the Eli benching.
Mara said a few weeks ago he mentioned to Jerry Reese the team should be thinking about getting a look at QBs Geno Smith and Davis Webb. Mara hoped Eli would agree to start the games and then come out.
4:49 PM - Nov 29, 2017
This should also be looked at in recognition of the fact that HC Ben McAdoo actually thought Geno Smith could replace Eli Manning. As cracy as it sounds he did. No one took him seriously when he said it.
McAdoo also said “I don’t see why not’’ when asked if newly acquired Jets castoff Geno Smith could be the heir apparent to Manning, and proceeded to laud Smith’s physical skill set. First, Smith has to make the roster.
So obviously when Mara gave that directive about Geno he knew that that his HC actually did think he was a potential replacement.
https://nypost.com/2017/03/28/mcadoo-with-jaw-dropper-geno-smith-can-be-giants-future/
Lastly, we see this quote from Mara on “wholesale changes”.
"When was the last time we changed a general manager and a head coach in the same year? It was 1979, and there might be another change or two or three happening in the future. For me, that's pretty wholesale."
1979 is a big hint. The Giants drafted Phil Simms in the 1st round. He is saying GM/HC/QB equal “wholesale changes”. He was hinting more coming which is QB.
The picture is clear. The Giants pursued a replacement to Eli Manning in last years draft. To the point they attempted to trade UP and lost a 4 way competition for him. They benched him at mid-year at Mara’s initiation. Mara directed his staff to look at this years draft for a QB replacement. Mara promised wholesale changes and hinted QB is part of that mix and coming.
This is all coming from ownership. John Mara. This is the condition of which Dave Gettleman is hired.
In the video clip I posted of last years draft Mara was very clear. He is in room for every pick and has “final approval” over every draft pick. I know people are going to say Gettleman may do things differently or its his ideas now but he was hired by Mara. Mara obviously hired him under a certain direction. That direction is clear as day for anyone to see when looking at the timeline of the past year.
The Giants are drafting QB at the 2 pick.
Article - (
New Window )
If Browns go Darnold at 1, Giants talk trades with Browns... if they don’t give up enough, Giants take Barkley
Jets take Mayfield...
Browns on the clock... DG calls Dorsey...
Now that he has Barkley, time to work out a deal...
Draft Rosen, give us #33, #35 and a 2nd next year...
QB of the future and first 3 picks of the 2nd round...
Plenty of ammo to trade back up for targets or stick around and take advantage of OL depth... rebuild OLine in 1 offseason and acquire your next QB
Don’t @ me
Interesting thoughts here. So, you say NYG drafts Barkley and trades him to Cleveland? I would be really shocked by this.
The only fact was...they drafted Webb and who knows how that impact in-house thinking.
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If Darnold is available, he’s the guy.... everyone thinks this.... everyone is right...
If Browns go Darnold at 1, Giants talk trades with Browns... if they don’t give up enough, Giants take Barkley
Jets take Mayfield...
Browns on the clock... DG calls Dorsey...
Now that he has Barkley, time to work out a deal...
Draft Rosen, give us #33, #35 and a 2nd next year...
QB of the future and first 3 picks of the 2nd round...
Plenty of ammo to trade back up for targets or stick around and take advantage of OL depth... rebuild OLine in 1 offseason and acquire your next QB
Don’t @ me
Interesting thoughts here. So, you say NYG drafts Barkley and trades him to Cleveland? I would be really shocked by this.
Yes... we will see... think about it... you get your next QB ANd fix this teams worst problem in 2 days.... potentially... OLine helps this team now and sets us up for the future.. plenty of picks to navigate the rest of the draft and target players you love... like one of the many good RB prospects in the draft...
They have sold the whole world on wanting Barkley... they haven’t hid from this fact... so, perhaps they just don’t care about drooling all over themselves to the public over him, or
They want the Browns to pull the trigger at 1, or power play for a trade... keeping their eye on the most important position in the game... Jets really aren’t a threat to take Rosen at 2... Seems destined for Mayfield there...
"I think it has to be somebody that has either had head-coaching experience or at least has been a coordinator for a significant period of time," Mara said. "I think if you don't have that, the odds are really stacked against you.
Despite all the chaffe from the media about Steve Wilks and his Gettleman ties and Matt Patricia and all the stuff that even our BBI “insiders” fell for on Josh McDaniels.
In the end, the Giants selected experienced HC. Pat Shurmur
And I thought that at the time, before it happened
Case for Shurmur - ( New Window )
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In comment 13924440 Saos1n said:
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If Darnold is available, he’s the guy.... everyone thinks this.... everyone is right...
If Browns go Darnold at 1, Giants talk trades with Browns... if they don’t give up enough, Giants take Barkley
Jets take Mayfield...
Browns on the clock... DG calls Dorsey...
Now that he has Barkley, time to work out a deal...
Draft Rosen, give us #33, #35 and a 2nd next year...
QB of the future and first 3 picks of the 2nd round...
Plenty of ammo to trade back up for targets or stick around and take advantage of OL depth... rebuild OLine in 1 offseason and acquire your next QB
Don’t @ me
Interesting thoughts here. So, you say NYG drafts Barkley and trades him to Cleveland? I would be really shocked by this.
Yes... we will see... think about it... you get your next QB ANd fix this teams worst problem in 2 days.... potentially... OLine helps this team now and sets us up for the future.. plenty of picks to navigate the rest of the draft and target players you love... like one of the many good RB prospects in the draft...
I have been saying Cleveland should want to straight up trade for our pick: 4,33,35 a 4th rounder and next years 2nd rounder.
If Rosen is there then take him. I don't want Mayfield.
Thursday can't come quick enough
John Mara
It wasnt McAdoo directing the staff to scout QBs in Nov and ir wasnt McAdoo talking about wholesale changes when introducing the GM
Mara wants a QB
This is the most telling thing about this draft and who we will probably pick. I think Mara sees a lot of Eli's demeanor in Darnold. I think he also sees some of the toughness of Eli in Darnold based on his days as a HS LB.
At the end of the day, the Giants are Mara's team and he is entitled to dictate in which direction the Giants go....especially when looking towards the next decade. Darnold seems like a Giants pick and I think he would do great working behind Eli for a year especially given his age
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In comment 13924469 Rjanyg said:
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In comment 13924440 Saos1n said:
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If Darnold is available, he’s the guy.... everyone thinks this.... everyone is right...
If Browns go Darnold at 1, Giants talk trades with Browns... if they don’t give up enough, Giants take Barkley
Jets take Mayfield...
Browns on the clock... DG calls Dorsey...
Now that he has Barkley, time to work out a deal...
Draft Rosen, give us #33, #35 and a 2nd next year...
QB of the future and first 3 picks of the 2nd round...
Plenty of ammo to trade back up for targets or stick around and take advantage of OL depth... rebuild OLine in 1 offseason and acquire your next QB
Don’t @ me
Interesting thoughts here. So, you say NYG drafts Barkley and trades him to Cleveland? I would be really shocked by this.
Yes... we will see... think about it... you get your next QB ANd fix this teams worst problem in 2 days.... potentially... OLine helps this team now and sets us up for the future.. plenty of picks to navigate the rest of the draft and target players you love... like one of the many good RB prospects in the draft...
I have been saying Cleveland should want to straight up trade for our pick: 4,33,35 a 4th rounder and next years 2nd rounder.
If Rosen is there then take him. I don't want Mayfield.
Thursday can't come quick enough
Would you be in favor of what I posted?
With a trade up, we could start
Josh Rosen
Tyrell Crosby
Will Hernandez
Or
Josh Rosen
Isaiah Wynn
Braden Smith
They have sold the whole world on wanting Barkley... they haven’t hid from this fact... so, perhaps they just don’t care about drooling all over themselves to the public over him, or
They want the Browns to pull the trigger at 1, or power play for a trade... keeping their eye on the most important position in the game... Jets really aren’t a threat to take Rosen at 2... Seems destined for Mayfield there...
Another thought however is that the Jets would take Rosen at 3. They were rumored all along to like Rosen...then the narrative switched to Mayfield. This may have happened because they have concern that the Giants will take Rosen. The Jets do not want the PR nightmare that the Giants got the Jets guy. They need to sell the fanbase that Mayfield is their guy in case. If Rosen and Mayfield are both available my guess is they take Rosen. Total speculation on my part so we'll see. Just another perspective. We can all spin this a million ways. Only 5 days to go!
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Chances are that it doesn’t but it would make sense...
They have sold the whole world on wanting Barkley... they haven’t hid from this fact... so, perhaps they just don’t care about drooling all over themselves to the public over him, or
They want the Browns to pull the trigger at 1, or power play for a trade... keeping their eye on the most important position in the game... Jets really aren’t a threat to take Rosen at 2... Seems destined for Mayfield there...
Another thought however is that the Jets would take Rosen at 3. They were rumored all along to like Rosen...then the narrative switched to Mayfield. This may have happened because they have concern that the Giants will take Rosen. The Jets do not want the PR nightmare that the Giants got the Jets guy. They need to sell the fanbase that Mayfield is their guy in case. If Rosen and Mayfield are both available my guess is they take Rosen. Total speculation on my part so we'll see. Just another perspective. We can all spin this a million ways. Only 5 days to go!
I could see it... thanks for your input
If they go QB it will be because he is the guy they wanted
I don't think they are sold on numerous QB's if they take a
QB at #2 it will be because it's the guy they wanted and I will be fine with it . I will trust what DG does he is the
GM and Schumer will be on board with it .
Lastly I could see a trade down but It would have to be a
to good to pass on to trade out of the top 5 or further .
Can't wait till Thursday it should be exciting !
The way I’m reading this, they know what this pick represents in terms of opportunity. If the the next great NYG QB is there they sure as hell aren’t going to risk losing him for reasons like we saw a few years back when teams leapfrogged to steal our guys. There is far too much at steak with the pick and they aren’t going to take any chances.
That doesn’t mean any of these guys grade out and they won’t force it. But they’re doing their HW and from the looks of it, they are not letting anything out on QBs. As it should be.
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Theres one name involved every step of way
John Mara
It wasnt McAdoo directing the staff to scout QBs in Nov and ir wasnt McAdoo talking about wholesale changes when introducing the GM
Mara wants a QB
This is the most telling thing about this draft and who we will probably pick. I think Mara sees a lot of Eli's demeanor in Darnold. I think he also sees some of the toughness of Eli in Darnold based on his days as a HS LB.
At the end of the day, the Giants are Mara's team and he is entitled to dictate in which direction the Giants go....especially when looking towards the next decade. Darnold seems like a Giants pick and I think he would do great working behind Eli for a year especially given his age
Ahhh Mara is dictating the draft now. Please tell me the last time Wellington or John have dictated any draft since George young was brought in, Is there collaboration and discussion? Sure there is, but dictating? Come on already. Does gettleman look like someone who just follows marching orders? If John wanted to play GM then he wouldn't have brought in Gettleman, he would have brought in a lackey. John Mara is not a scout and he has admitted such.
So, let's just say totally hypothetically John does like Darnold, but shurmur and gettleman don't for whatever reason. John is going to say I don't care what you think or say we are drafting him if he is there.
Some of the comments on here.....smh
And listen, I think the giants as an organization like Darnold and will probably draft him if he is there, but it won't be because John Mara is dictating anything. John Mara is not Jerry Jones
Which leads me to believe in a small trade down would be optimum
The trade down with Cleveland would also benefits the Jets....as they will have one added QB to chose from....which is another reason for the hard bargaining but as DG suggested....if you have your heart set on cherry Garcia.....will you really change to Rocky road even if it becomes available....
i suspect minus Barkley, the Giants top options will still be callable @4 which makes it no brainer if true.
No one. No one other than Anita marks. So..... no one.
I do believe the ownership has mandated wholesale changes and that implicating QB
Doubling down on the QB and going for 1 more run in a 2 year window and "maybe more" is the polar opposite.
Its not what this GM was hired to do
How do you know that? I mean, you speak with such conviction, but it's an absolutely ludicrous statement. Right now Hitdog hasn't said anything (and has said their evaluations may not even be done); JonC has suggested Darnold could be the pick if there; Colin has said they are targeting Rosen. Yet you sit there so certain that they simply won't go QB. And I have no idea what you are basing it off of. Is it because they still think Eli has something left?
Look, I'm choosing to believe that Gettleman and Shurmur are qualified for their positions. And any qualified GM and coach know you need a new QB to succeed Eli, especially after the last two seasons he's had. This is a team that struggled to score points the past two seasons. And some of that is unequivocally on Eli. Anyone with any knowledge of football knows that. Is it possible they choose to bury their heads in the sand and build around a 37 year old QB? Sure. But just read that and see how foolish it sounds. We need a young QB to groom with Engram and Beckham, and we can find a RB to go with them later.
As for me, I'm guessing. But you are suggesting that you know something. But please don't tell me it's based off of what you heard them say, because I haven't heard the same things then.
So much of this draft will be driven by guilt. The guilt that that imbecile Mara feels for making Elisha cry and for making fans furious. The barbarians were at the gate. The thought of a fan revolt was the last thing our so called classy owner could tolerate. He was a broken man. And now that eclipses all the pre-GenoGate stuff he was saying about gathering data on this QB class.
All the chips have pushed into the middle of the table - Fassel style - on Eli. Mara is desperate to repair his image by giving Eli at least two more runs at the prize. In fact, I’m sure he’s given Gettleman the code red - do everything possible to give Eli what he needs. And they trust that Shurmur has enough magical dust to resurrect Eli. Hell, I think the reason why Accorsi was brought in was to broker this deal with old pal Gettleman. It’s an astonishing gamble.
I really hope I’m completely wrong. But I have the worst feeling I’m not.
As for the Mahomes part, what a missed opportunity that was. That would have been a real coup. That kid is going to be a star. He’s got the goods to kill it. If Reid can keep on the rails, the Chiefs are going to be a monster to deal with...
So much of this draft will be driven by guilt. The guilt that that imbecile Mara feels for making Elisha cry and for making fans furious. The barbarians were at the gate. The thought of a fan revolt was the last thing our so called classy owner could tolerate. He was a broken man. And now that eclipses all the pre-GenoGate stuff he was saying about gathering data on this QB class.
All the chips have pushed into the middle of the table - Fassel style - on Eli. Mara is desperate to repair his image by giving Eli at least two more runs at the prize. In fact, I’m sure he’s given Gettleman the code red - do everything possible to give Eli what he needs. And they trust that Shurmur has enough magical dust to resurrect Eli. Hell, I think the reason why Accorsi was brought in was to broker this deal with old pal Gettleman. It’s an astonishing gamble.
I really hope I’m completely wrong. But I have the worst feeling I’m not.
As for the Mahomes part, what a missed opportunity that was. That would have been a real coup. That kid is going to be a star. He’s got the goods to kill it. If Reid can keep on the rails, the Chiefs are going to be a monster to deal with...
That could certainly be the case. And if they are drafting that way, then shame on them, because they may know Eli is done but may be ignoring it anyway. But I very much hope that Mara did not give Gettleman and Shurmur a mandate that they forego a QB and draft to win now. If he did, as you said, it is a monumental blunder.
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at #2. It’s very painful for me to write that because it’s going to be a horrendous blunder.
So much of this draft will be driven by guilt. The guilt that that imbecile Mara feels for making Elisha cry and for making fans furious. The barbarians were at the gate. The thought of a fan revolt was the last thing our so called classy owner could tolerate. He was a broken man. And now that eclipses all the pre-GenoGate stuff he was saying about gathering data on this QB class.
All the chips have pushed into the middle of the table - Fassel style - on Eli. Mara is desperate to repair his image by giving Eli at least two more runs at the prize. In fact, I’m sure he’s given Gettleman the code red - do everything possible to give Eli what he needs. And they trust that Shurmur has enough magical dust to resurrect Eli. Hell, I think the reason why Accorsi was brought in was to broker this deal with old pal Gettleman. It’s an astonishing gamble.
I really hope I’m completely wrong. But I have the worst feeling I’m not.
As for the Mahomes part, what a missed opportunity that was. That would have been a real coup. That kid is going to be a star. He’s got the goods to kill it. If Reid can keep on the rails, the Chiefs are going to be a monster to deal with...
That could certainly be the case. And if they are drafting that way, then shame on them, because they may know Eli is done but may be ignoring it anyway. But I very much hope that Mara did not give Gettleman and Shurmur a mandate that they forego a QB and draft to win now. If he did, as you said, it is a monumental blunder.
I fear you might be correct. The thing I really don't understand is how the Giants won't think there is a worthy QB successor at #2. Many other teams seem to think so -- Cleveland, the Jets, Denver probably, Buffalo, Miami, maybe New England. I don't buy the narrative that any of these teams, aside from Buffalo, are any more desperate for a future QB than the Giants are. The Jets have McCown, Teddy Bridgewater who could turn out to be very good after his injury, and a still somewhat unknown Christian Hackenberg. About as unknown as Davis Webb. Cleveland has a relatively young, recent pro bowl/playoff qb in tyrod taylor, and have already traded away a recent first round pick in the talented Deshone Kizer because they obviously think that whoever they pick in this draft has more potential. Denver has Case Keenum who is relatively young and played well last year, and they still have Paxton Lynch. The book isn't closed on him either. The Bills are pretty desperate, but they let Tyrod Taylor go and are trying to position themselves to get someone in this draft. Desperate as they might be, these are all professional organizations and they're not going to trade away important picks for a chance at a super risky QB prospect.
I just have a concern that the Giants are either too afraid to take a well-considered and calculated risk or foolishly think they know better than all those other teams. Granted, we don't know exactly what all those other teams think, but we have a pretty good idea that most of them believe in at least a few of these qbs.
So all possibilities are in play on Thursday. Anyone who is convinced that what they hope will happen is actually going to happen is fooling themselves with confirmation bias (and there is plenty of confirmation bias to be had by all parties concerned). This is as true of our asshats as it is of our most ignorant posters (and everyone in-between).
If "Andrew Luck", a no brainer at QB would be the choice.
If the QBs available, all have pros and cons...then it most be considered and weighed against the other options.
Some teams are desperate for QBs.....2 years of Eli plus 2 more years of growth and learning from Webb is not an empty cubbard
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In comment 13924347 TrueBlue56 said:
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In comment 13924316 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13924293 TrueBlue56 said:
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In comment 13924285 twostepgiants said:
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John Mara directed the QB moves, not McAdoo
Hence his quotes about wanting to go QB last year
If you believe that, then I have 2 bridges to sell you. Two for one.
The season was lost, we were not going anywhere. What Mara wanted was for Webb to possibly get in a few games if they were getting out of hand. Might as well see what the kid could possibly do. There is no harm in that and its not an indication of anything.
It was mcadoo and Reese who screwed the pooch by coming up with their dumb ass plan.
What Mara wanted and his intentions were very far from what Reese and mcadoo did, which is why they are no longer employed.
Mara signed off on their "dumb ass plan." Don't dismiss that.
Mara did not sign off on Geno Smith or what was presented to Eli. That is why mcadoo and Reese were fired. What Mara would have liked to see happen and what actually happened were 2 totally different things
He absolutely did. Everything that followed was PR spin to appease a fan base that was reacting, by Mara's own admission, far more strongly than he anticipated.
Yes, that's it. Mara told mcadoo to present Eli with this lame brained plan and gave him instructions to start Geno and then after they did everything he instructed them to do, he fired them. That's just the type of guy John Mara is. Sets you up to fail and then fires you...the idiocy on this board really astounds me at times
Let's not forget that mcadoo was tgge one constantly throwing Eli under the bus (never anyone else) and it was mcadoo who kept beating the Geno drums. Wait, that just gets in the way of your John Mara conspiracy theory
Continue on
Mara himself said that he signed off on the plan, and that only three things deviated from his expectations:
1) that it would be a set first-half/second-half schedule among the QBs.
2) that Eli refused to participate (but that, according to Mara, was a byproduct of #1).
3) that the fanbase would react as vocally and emotionally as they did.
That's it. That's the sum of what John Mara did not approve in advance. It's not a conspiracy theory; it's reality.
You're right about the idiocy though.
Eli was not that. Which is why he almost never praised Eli. Giving excuses for poor OL play constantly. Saying things like Eli needs to figure out how to play from an unclean pocket etc.
Mara because BM was his coach who he believed in at the time was ready to get him a QB (Mahomes) if the price was reasonable.
It took the debacle that was last year for him to 'wake up' and see Eli wasnt the main problem. Mac and the system were.
Now we have a coach that adjusts the system to players strengths not force them to adjust to a rigid system.
Ownership, DG,PS,DS, Accorsi etc all now saying Eli has years left.
However, I am fearful of bw in dc being right in his hunch. Well, the thing about doubling down is there will be a high pick in Giants future to pick a qb in a few years if the gamble does not pan out and nyg stink.
Worst case-Nyg meander in middle with Eli for two seasons and don’t draft a blue chipper. Worst outcome and if bw is right there is a good chance of this. Rather suck now and build a winner than go for it with this broken team and then go into a funk for extended period.
Now let's assume the Giants inquired about trading up for Mahomes, but didn't want to give up what it would take? And then let's assume they never even inquired, and it was a rumor started by someone who had no idea what they are talking about.
Silly thread.
Giants espn article November - ( New Window )
As some one who does political analysis for a living and has made multitudes of errors in some of my predictions I see holes in your analysis.
First you are not a dispassionate observer, you are on record as wanting a QB, and you are applying a deductive approach. Essentially, you have a hypothesis and you are looking for evidence to support your hypothesis instead of letting the evidence shape your hypothesis.
Your argument is predicated on all your premises being true. Hitdog has already challenged the main premise of your argument. There are other premises such as the 1979 argument that aren’t accurate either.
No where do you challenge your assumptions which is where most people including myself, make their errors. Neither do you present or address information that counters your argument.
In the end your conclusion maybe true, but your argument is not sound.
As some one who does political analysis for a living and has made multitudes of errors in some of my predictions I see holes in your analysis.
First you are not a dispassionate observer, you are on record as wanting a QB, and you are applying a deductive approach. Essentially, you have a hypothesis and you are looking for evidence to support your hypothesis instead of letting the evidence shape your hypothesis.
Your argument is predicated on all your premises being true. Hitdog has already challenged the main premise of your argument. There are other premises such as the 1979 argument that aren’t accurate either.
No where do you challenge your assumptions which is where most people including myself, make their errors. Neither do you present or address information that counters your argument.
In the end your conclusion maybe true, but your argument is not sound.
Thank you for your post I appreciate the critique from a professional.
Im curious as to more then. I agree 100% I am not a dispassionate observer but that itself doesnt make my argument wrong.
Im curious why Hitdog challenges my premise. I answered his question. 2 sources from ESPN including Schefter said it did happen. These are reputable sources. Hitdog has a proven track record on here and a lot of pelts on his belt and when he weighs in it should be considered but he hasnt gotten everything right about the Giants moves. I dont think his word alone should say that it didnt happen.
Im interested to know why the 1979 quote isnt accurate?
You are definately right. I didnt challenge my assumptions in this post either. That is definately where the errors get made. I just looked over the Sunday reading and I see nothing about Mahomes. I assume you mean the media narrative about Giants pick with Barkley, Chubb or trade down. What Ive mostly seen from the beats is speculation and citing outside the Giants sources and not sources inside the Giants.
Thanks for your insights, I appreciate it.
“It doesn't hurt that one of Webb's biggest supporters in last year's draft is still in the building. President of player evaluation Chris Mara (who is also part of the ownership group) was perhaps the strongest voice on Webb last year.
The Giants ended up with Webb with the No. 87 pick even though the coaches were especially high on Patrick Mahomes. He went 10th overall to the Kansas City Chiefs.
But the Giants were never going to draft Mahomes because the front office wasn't nearly as high on the Texas Tech quarterback. They were also split on Webb.
This is a glimpse of how the Giants operate. They have a lot of cooks in the kitchen who often have differing views on players...
Once you write a scenario that accepts that as truth, you lose most people because they have already started off disagreeing with you before they get to what you extrapolate from a rumor.
My point is on Mara. He went out if his way to speak on record and said he hoped they went QB in the last draft. He also pointed out in same interview he has "final approval" on every draft pick.
Its part of a picture being painted that Mara is looking to replacee Eli
The second woukd be on the 2 espn sources that say this happened. Obviousky the Schefters are not always right. But thats mostly on things that coukd happen. They are saying this did happen. Its much easier for them to verify that. Theres obviously sources on other teams who would be involved. It could be the other team saying they received an offer from Giants. So if Schefter and Marks say it happened and have multiple sources to claim; Im gonna tend to believe them.
Again in this thread a year later i am wasting my time reiterating
Your post is well thought out and I appreciate the logic and effort, your conclusion in the end may prove correct if they take a qb... but the mahomes narrative to get there is incorrect.
Again in this thread a year later i am wasting my time reiterating
Your post is well thought out and I appreciate the logic and effort, your conclusion in the end may prove correct if they take a qb... but the mahomes narrative to get there is incorrect.
Right. Well give your input and Raanans clarifying input, i can accept that the Giants (at leAst not ownership) did not try and trade up for Mahomes
Given Raanans info it might explain the split and this draft. Coaches last year may have liked Mahomes but ownership did not.
If there is a split among coaches and ownership. And Raanans info on Allen may indicate there is- how does that impact how we process the media info this year?
Thsnks Hitdog for weighing in
Thsnks Hitdog for weighing in
There was enough chatter to figure there had to be a few voices within the organization that wanted him.
At the forefront was likely MacAdoo who almost never gave Eli praise publicly and when he did it looked like removing teeth to do so.
It's the right and prudent thing to do. Does anyone disagree?
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In comment 13924300 twostepgiants said:
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Theres one name involved every step of way
John Mara
It wasnt McAdoo directing the staff to scout QBs in Nov and ir wasnt McAdoo talking about wholesale changes when introducing the GM
Mara wants a QB
This is the most telling thing about this draft and who we will probably pick. I think Mara sees a lot of Eli's demeanor in Darnold. I think he also sees some of the toughness of Eli in Darnold based on his days as a HS LB.
At the end of the day, the Giants are Mara's team and he is entitled to dictate in which direction the Giants go....especially when looking towards the next decade. Darnold seems like a Giants pick and I think he would do great working behind Eli for a year especially given his age
Ahhh Mara is dictating the draft now. Please tell me the last time Wellington or John have dictated any draft since George young was brought in, Is there collaboration and discussion? Sure there is, but dictating? Come on already. Does gettleman look like someone who just follows marching orders? If John wanted to play GM then he wouldn't have brought in Gettleman, he would have brought in a lackey. John Mara is not a scout and he has admitted such.
So, let's just say totally hypothetically John does like Darnold, but shurmur and gettleman don't for whatever reason. John is going to say I don't care what you think or say we are drafting him if he is there.
Some of the comments on here.....smh
And listen, I think the giants as an organization like Darnold and will probably draft him if he is there, but it won't be because John Mara is dictating anything. John Mara is not Jerry Jones
C'mon, everyone knows it'a not John Mara but the one-man deep state of the Giants organization, Chris Mara, who pulls all the strings, makes all the decisions.
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In comment 13924490 Saos1n said:
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In comment 13924469 Rjanyg said:
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In comment 13924440 Saos1n said:
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If Darnold is available, he’s the guy.... everyone thinks this.... everyone is right...
If Browns go Darnold at 1, Giants talk trades with Browns... if they don’t give up enough, Giants take Barkley
Jets take Mayfield...
Browns on the clock... DG calls Dorsey...
Now that he has Barkley, time to work out a deal...
Draft Rosen, give us #33, #35 and a 2nd next year...
QB of the future and first 3 picks of the 2nd round...
Plenty of ammo to trade back up for targets or stick around and take advantage of OL depth... rebuild OLine in 1 offseason and acquire your next QB
Don’t @ me
Interesting thoughts here. So, you say NYG drafts Barkley and trades him to Cleveland? I would be really shocked by this.
Yes... we will see... think about it... you get your next QB ANd fix this teams worst problem in 2 days.... potentially... OLine helps this team now and sets us up for the future.. plenty of picks to navigate the rest of the draft and target players you love... like one of the many good RB prospects in the draft...
I have been saying Cleveland should want to straight up trade for our pick: 4,33,35 a 4th rounder and next years 2nd rounder.
If Rosen is there then take him. I don't want Mayfield.
Thursday can't come quick enough
Would you be in favor of what I posted?
With a trade up, we could start
Josh Rosen
Tyrell Crosby
Will Hernandez
Or
Josh Rosen
Isaiah Wynn
Braden Smith
I could live with that
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In comment 13924490 Saos1n said:
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In comment 13924469 Rjanyg said:
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In comment 13924440 Saos1n said:
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If Darnold is available, he’s the guy.... everyone thinks this.... everyone is right...
If Browns go Darnold at 1, Giants talk trades with Browns... if they don’t give up enough, Giants take Barkley
Jets take Mayfield...
Browns on the clock... DG calls Dorsey...
Now that he has Barkley, time to work out a deal...
Draft Rosen, give us #33, #35 and a 2nd next year...
QB of the future and first 3 picks of the 2nd round...
Plenty of ammo to trade back up for targets or stick around and take advantage of OL depth... rebuild OLine in 1 offseason and acquire your next QB
Don’t @ me
Interesting thoughts here. So, you say NYG drafts Barkley and trades him to Cleveland? I would be really shocked by this.
Yes... we will see... think about it... you get your next QB ANd fix this teams worst problem in 2 days.... potentially... OLine helps this team now and sets us up for the future.. plenty of picks to navigate the rest of the draft and target players you love... like one of the many good RB prospects in the draft...
I have been saying Cleveland should want to straight up trade for our pick: 4,33,35 a 4th rounder and next years 2nd rounder.
If Rosen is there then take him. I don't want Mayfield.
Thursday can't come quick enough
Would you be in favor of what I posted?
With a trade up, we could start
Josh Rosen
Tyrell Crosby
Will Hernandez
Or
Josh Rosen
Isaiah Wynn
Braden Smith
That is one VERY interesting scenario I hadn't thought of. May not be a high probability one but certainly in the realm of possibilities.
This nets us Rosen AND extra picks. I likee it.