This is the 64 Thousand Dollar Question - and the Browns - a lot like the Giants need DBs and Olinemen - and they are going into the season with Tyrod Taylor as their starting QB
Dorsey has featured QB disappointments in the past -- see Alex Smith - and has never picked at the top of the Draft before -- he has 2 picks in the first 1 and 4, and 3 picks in the second including 33 and 35, and what amounts to the two first picks in the 3rd round (last pick in the 2nd - 1rst pick in the 3rd)
Here's the thing -- Dorsey loves RBs, LBs, CBs and Lineman -- but he's never picked a first round RB before; He's Tended to pick DBs in the first round - and he's a trader too - he traded up to pick Mahommes last year, and a few years in Kansas City he didn't even have a first round pick
In my opinion Josh Allen is a perfect fit for the style of QB he likes -- he's more like a cross between Alex Smith and Aaron Rogers (who he scouted for when he was in Green Bay)
For my money - i'd be guessing Allen at 1 and Ward at 4 -- I don;t think he picks Barkley -- he's had success picking RBs in the later rounds - He's got to take a Tackle though -- and I would guess 33 and 35 are going to be one or both O linemen-- which screws the Giants
I see the Giants picking Darnold -- or trading away their pick to a team that despirately wants Darnold for a couple of firsts and a second -- I just don't see the Giants picking Barkley -- It just doesn't feel like a Giants move to me -- especially with the needs they have on the OLine the DB and at ER.
If the Giants do trade away and land two first rounders - I see a pool of 2 from DE Chubb, DT Vea, DB Fitzpatrick and OT McKinchey maybe even Nelson -- I'd be ecstatic with two of those three - frankly Vea and McKlinchey are the two I'd prefer -- huge - huge - Giant men -- building up "From the inside out" -- with Chubb/Ward/Fitzpatrick/Nelson in that order as my back up choices depending on where the Giants #1's end up
then in the second - with two picks I'd grab fight off Dorsey for another Line man and a RB like Guice or Chubb, and CB/DB/LBs in the third, but - I can also see the Giants selecting Lauletta or even Rudolph if they drop that far with a second round pick
One thing is for sure -- as moody as this board has been -- half of you are going to be committing suicide no matter what happens ---- but I think we are going to see some fireworks this year -- I feel a block buster trade coming on
Don't get me wrong though -- I would not be angry if there weren't fireworks -- I just feel them in my bones
There's good rationales for landing either Darnold or Barkley -- I just don't see it -- not with all the needs the Giants have -- and not with the quality that will be available for a trade down -- the think this is a deep enough draft - that the Giants can really improve themselves in a number of areas with the extra picks
I want to also point out that our two all pro draftees - Beckham and Collins - were picked outside of the top 10 - if I'm taking a risk -- and I see a lot of risk in the top QBs and -- I'd rather take a couple of risks than just 1
that's how I see it
4. Chubb
No trade up, no trade down. Owner loved Darnold & Allenhas too high of a bust rate.
NYG doesnt get cute, and drafts Barkley at 2. I dont think they have a conviction for any QB aside from Darnold.
4. Chubb
No trade up, no trade down. Owner loved Darnold & Allenhas too high of a bust rate.
NYG doesnt get cute, and drafts Barkley at 2. I dont think they have a conviction for any QB aside from Darnold.
Totally agree.
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I guess that depends on your point of view. He was drafted number 1 overall and I am sure others expected more out of him. However, he has had a very successful NFL career so far. His knock will always be that he was taken over Aaron Rodgers amd that'll knock him down but considering the bust rate for 1st round QBs is around 50% and most are out of the league after a few years I would say he has well surpassed that side of it. He has been the QB for some very successful teams. He wasn't a homerun pick but he also wasn't a bust either. He is somewherein the middle. Where in the middle is based on your perception.
Smith is a "bust in progress". He has been a good quarterback, but there have been many non-first round draft picks who have been better AND won conference championships and/or super bowls since Smith has been in the league -- Warner, Brees, Kaepernick, Wilson, Foles to name a few.
Because you are building your entire team around a top ten drafted quarterback, anything less than a super bowl appearance has to be considered a bust. Since the 49ers won the NFC championship with Kaepernick, AND, the Packers won a Super Bowl with Rodgers, whom they passed over for Smith, anyway you look at it, Smith has to be considered a bust thus far. But it took Peyton Manning seven years to "unbust" so perhaps Smith will "unbust" with the Redskins!
But Dorsey didn't draft Smith. KC got Smith from SF and he has played well while there.
Not an argument for or against, just surprising. I think that you have to temper expectations about QBs. 1 in 10 historically make it to the Big Dance and 6% of top 10 picks have won one. Obviously, Brady has had a major impact on that, but it shows how hard it is for a QB to be special.
Serby - ( New Window )
Not an argument for or against, just surprising. I think that you have to temper expectations about QBs. 1 in 10 historically make it to the Big Dance and 6% of top 10 picks have won one. Obviously, Brady has had a major impact on that, but it shows how hard it is for a QB to be special. Serby - ( New Window )
Roethlisberger was taken just outside the top 10.
I would make that deal and gladly taken Rosen or Chubb.
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And voila, he can have his cake and eat it too.
I would make that deal and gladly taken Rosen or Chubb.
I think I agree. It'd be fun to get more but this can be a franchise changing move. The top of the second is going to yield some serious talent especially if 6 QBs go in the first.
Not an argument for or against, just surprising. I think that you have to temper expectations about QBs. 1 in 10 historically make it to the Big Dance and 6% of top 10 picks have won one. Obviously, Brady has had a major impact on that, but it shows how hard it is for a QB to be special. Serby - ( New Window )
Peter from NH (formerly CT)... the QB stats are a little tricky! So many, many more QBs have been drafted after the first Round such that there are simply more of them floating around in the NFL, thus increasing the odds that a post-Round One QB made it to (or won) the Super Bowl! Moreover, a team's Super Bowl destiny takes an entire 53-man roster, not just one QB!
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In comment 13924855 Big Blue '56 said:
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And voila, he can have his cake and eat it too.
I would make that deal and gladly taken Rosen or Chubb.
I think I agree. It'd be fun to get more but this can be a franchise changing move. The top of the second is going to yield some serious talent especially if 6 QBs go in the first.
Dont think CLE makes this deal.
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In comment 13924872 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 13924855 Big Blue '56 said:
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And voila, he can have his cake and eat it too.
I would make that deal and gladly taken Rosen or Chubb.
I think I agree. It'd be fun to get more but this can be a franchise changing move. The top of the second is going to yield some serious talent especially if 6 QBs go in the first.
Dont think CLE makes this deal.
I am going by what NYG27 posted the other day. I know him and truly doubt he just made that up. It doesn't make it true but I do believe that is what he was told. So, we are just going off of that assumption.
2. Darnold
3. Barkley
Anything else would be a huge surprise IMO including Mayfield.
And it sounds more and more like Cleveland really wants BOTH the top QB on their Board and Barkley.
The only one standing in the way of that is us.
Jets are basically gauranteed of going QB at 3.
Scenario #1:
If Browns go Barkley we or Jets could either take their top target at QB (or we could trade to a team that wants their top target at QB) . Do they take that chance to end up with the 2nd or 3rd QB on their board?
Scenario#2:
If they go QB. We go Barkley or perhaps our top target at QB (likely Darnold unless they take him?)
What to do? Ultimately they will either pay us a monumental price for the rights to Barkley at #2 or they will have to choose one of the other or beleive we will go QB leaving them Barkley at 4.
Im guessing they choose their top target at QB at #1 rather than the potential 3rd QB of the draft at #4. Whether they trade with us or not remains to be seen.
So why gamble on the potential 3rd best QB and not grab the guy you have most conviction in seeing he might be gone by your 4th pick, not unless they have all 4 top QBs graded evenly which I highly doubt.
And biased posters setting up who they want the Giants to pick.
just sayin'...
This draft has to be about team building, which is done with talent, not just plugging immediate holes.
Huge man, playmaker, and would look great next to Snacks and Tomlinson.
Not an argument for or against, just surprising. I think that you have to temper expectations about QBs. 1 in 10 historically make it to the Big Dance and 6% of top 10 picks have won one. Obviously, Brady has had a major impact on that, but it shows how hard it is for a QB to be special. Serby - ( New Window )
Exactly right!
What I think their best move is, trade their 2nd round picks to the Giants for the 2 pick and take Darnold and Barkley.
My thinking as well.
I think they go Chubb at 4 even if QBs go 1-2-3 and Barkley is still there.
I suspect Super Bowl do not have a large enough of a pool to be proper analysis.....use winning % might be a fairing assesment.
Chubb/Ward @ 4
They aren't trading up 4 to 2. I've heard they really like Ward. Months ago I heard they were digging heavy into Davenport. Maybe that means they trade back and get him..
If I'm Dorsey I stay and take Chubb then land a CB and RB at the top of the 2nd.
My opinion out of it and solely on what I've heard, they go with Ward or sell the pick.
Getting cute and passing in a 1st rd QB got their last GM fired. Dorsey goes Darnold at 1 then he has many options at 4.
^This. Allen's inaccuracies are too great a risk for an 0-16 team that hasn't had a legitimate QB since Bernie Kosar. How many first round picks have the Browns wasted on QBs? Manuel being the latest example. Allen also has a significant injury history with two broken collarbones, and a steel plate with screws. In that situation, the Giants will draft Barkley, or trade down.
If the Browns pass on Darnold, the Giants will draft him, unless DG gets an insane offer, which is possible.
Huge man, playmaker, and would look great next to Snacks and Tomlinson.
I'd be very happy with Vita Vea after a trade down to 8-12.
Still, my guess is Cleveland goes Darnold at 1 and Chubb at 4, and we go Rosen at 2. I think Barkley takes an unexpected slide down the board because he plays RB, and - like it or not - teams don't love to invest high picks in those guys.
Than at the same time,the Jets are also a threat to take his quarterback.I think both teams are looking for a similar type player.
Than you have the Bills,who would likely offer the most of any team to get the #2 pick,and could also be after the same quarterback.
You want him because he eats offensive linemen, RBs and QBs -- he's disruptive, and he can rush the passer - he's that athletic -- and did I mention he's massively huge -- he's a frikken Giant
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But why would we want him? The player is NOT a pass rusher and would be off the field on 3rd down passing situations. I want no part of him in a trade down situation.
You want him because he eats offensive linemen, RBs and QBs -- he's disruptive, and he can rush the passer - he's that athletic -- and did I mention he's massively huge -- he's a frikken Giant
Vea, Snacks and Tomlinson would be quite a formidable front. Would allow your linebackers to get after the quarterback with ease.
He'll be in the mix if NYG trades back.
Says Dorsey and Gettleman could work for the CIA.
Peter King
Verified account @SI_PeterKing
6h6 hours ago
I just want you to knowand this is not a pre-excuse, but a simple factthat the mock business these days has a high degree of throwing darts. Back in the day, we had a real chance at many of these picks. Now teams are significantly more secretive.
Peter King
Verified account @SI_PeterKing
6h6 hours ago
[L]ook at how three of the first four picks here are controlled by guys who could work for the CIA (Dorsey, Gettleman). You get nothing out of them. (Understandably, I might add.) We all still have guys who tell us things, but its just more guarded now.
Peter King
Verified account @SI_PeterKing
21h21 hours ago
Promotion for MMQB Monday:
1. My mock draft is going to be worth less than nothing.
2. Please dont read it.
3. Im not kidding.
Says Dorsey and Gettleman could work for the CIA.
Peter King
Verified account @SI_PeterKing
6h6 hours ago
I just want you to knowand this is not a pre-excuse, but a simple factthat the mock business these days has a high degree of throwing darts. Back in the day, we had a real chance at many of these picks. Now teams are significantly more secretive.
Peter King
Verified account @SI_PeterKing
6h6 hours ago
[L]ook at how three of the first four picks here are controlled by guys who could work for the CIA (Dorsey, Gettleman). You get nothing out of them. (Understandably, I might add.) We all still have guys who tell us things, but its just more guarded now.
Peter King
Verified account @SI_PeterKing
21h21 hours ago
Promotion for MMQB Monday:
1. My mock draft is going to be worth less than nothing.
2. Please dont read it.
3. Im not kidding.
Isn't it ironic that a few months ago King was confident Allen was going to be the first pick the draft. Equally as ironic is that the media - specifically the Giants' beat writers - take everything Gettleman says as gospel and are supremely confident he is going to select Barkley with the 2 pick.
Mock drafts are an exercise designed to get "clicks" The most accurate mock draft last year had 28 percent - yes, 28 percent - of the picks correct. That alone should tell you that most people have no idea who is going where.
I talked about it earlier. I still think it will be Darnold, but with Cleveland playing 8 games in that city and 3 road games in Cincy, Pitt, and Baltimore, many of which could be cold weather games, it would not surprise me to see him pick Allen. He also moved way up to replace noodle armed Alex Smith with Mahomes. I know I'm hedging a bit, but a lot of evidence points to Allen at 1. And Allen played at Wyoming while Darnold played in LA.
Still, GMs often play it safe to save their jobs, so I think in the end he goes with the consensus number 1 and sticks with Darnold, even if his own gut tells him Allen.
Whose house?
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Id bet the house on it.
Whose house?
Limerick is your thoughts Allen?
Without quality play from the most important position looking over the next 10-15 years -- you can never capitalize on the strong receiving core the Giants have. A guy like OBJ along with other receivers can be lethal in the future if you get a good QB.
Eli at best has 1 year left. The other stuff is garbage. This year the Oline will still struggle. How does that make Eli better?
The problem imo is too many fans think of the name rather than look hard at the other complimentary players not understanding the effects that other sub par players can affect the team. Eli NEEDS a TERRIFIC OLine.
If the OLine can't block well- then Eli can't deliver the ball well to his receivers. If the OLien can't block well then it means less holes for Barkley to run.