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Comparing Saquon Barkley to Calvin Hill

YANKEE28 : 4/22/2018 11:11 am
Perhaps I am dating myself here, but let me give a brief comparison I will make to these 2 great running backs, though their college careers are separated by about 50 years.

Calvin Hill played for Yale. He had incredible skills and was highly regarded both on and off the field. He ended up being the first Ivy League player ever taken in Round 1 of the draft- in 1969 and to the Dallas Cowboys.

Hill had a solid first year, winning Rookie of the Year. I would only go as far as calling it solid, because Hill often got injured. And how did he get hurt- trying to leap over defenders. Vertical jumps were not measured before the draft back in those days, but Hill was an outstanding jumper on the Yale track team. He certainly would have exceeded 40 inches in the vertical if tested (just like Barkley).

The flaw in Hill's game was his frequency to try to jump over defenders. When a running back tries to leap over a defender he is taking away all of the strength in his lower half, and subjecting himself to injury.

This continued for Hill's first few years in the League. I am sure his Cowboy coaches discussed it, but his career didn't really take off until 1972,73, and 74. (He actually tore his ACL against the Giants in 71). What changed to make Hill a better player-he finally stopping trying to leap over defenders.

I have watched quite a bit of Saquon Barkley, and have seen MANY games in which he tries to leap over a defender-some tape its more than once a game. He has done it successfully and has not been injured. But college is not the pros, and it can be hard to break a bad habit.

I think Barkley is going to be an outstanding pro-but I will throw out that one concern-this is the NFL, and while some of these leaps look great on the highlight reel, the risk to injury and conceding of all your lower core strength make it a poor decision by an NFL running back.

It took Calvin Hill several years to overcome the bad habit, and he was a much better player when it stopped. Hill learned the hard way the detriment to leaping.

Fair comparison of Hill to Barkley. Only time will tell.
Just one fans perspective.

Uh-oh!  
TC : 4/22/2018 11:16 am : link
You posted a negative opinion concerning Barkley's game!!!

Big trouble!
Enjoy the perspective.  
Big Blue '56 : 4/22/2018 11:17 am : link
I saw a lot of Calvin Hill. He was quite good for awhile until injuries slowed him up. If Barkley is another Hill however, I would be upset at the Giants for drafting him at 2. If more like Faulk, then I’m excited
I was young when Hill played  
George from PA : 4/22/2018 11:25 am : link
But my impression was that he was a track star that became a football player...

Barkley is a football player 1st

I could be wrong.
Calvin Hill  
Archer : 4/22/2018 11:36 am : link
I am dating myself but I played against Hill in high school
He was a totally different type of runner than Barkley
Hill looked like he was 10’ tall all legs and he enjoyed running over people

He was fast but not necessarily quick
Barkley  
Rjanyg : 4/22/2018 11:44 am : link
Is a freak
So  
Joey in VA : 4/22/2018 11:46 am : link
Leaping = bad idea, that's your big conclusion? Super glad I read this.
Hill was a much taller RB...  
GFAN52 : 4/22/2018 11:49 am : link
I don’t see the comparison.
Like Joey said  
Mike from Ohio : 4/22/2018 11:54 am : link
Not sure I understand the point of the thread. I think everyone knows jumping guys is a bad idea. Aside from that, what is the point of the comparison? If the Giants think they can't coach that out of him then of course you don't take him at 2. You don't take anyone uncoachable at 2.

Or is the point that everyone who leaps will have a similar career to Hill? I honestly am not sure what you are trying to say.
I actually like the comparison. Barkley does remind me of Hill  
yatqb : 4/22/2018 12:23 pm : link
when he makes those leaps over defenders.
Mike  
YANKEE28 : 4/22/2018 12:31 pm : link
That's exactly my point. Jumping is bad for a running back.

I can certainly imagine that the coaches at Penn State mentioned this, yet I probably saw even more of it in his final season.

Would I draft Barkley-absolutely.

My point is that 50 years ago Calvin Hill was a generational athlete. Today Saquon Barkley is a generational athlete. Sometimes they think they can do anything physically.

It worked for Hill in college-but not in the pros-until his 4th season and changing his game.

The last thing you need is a first round draft pick to get hurt because of a leap.

Remember the Giants drafted David Wilson. Another incredible athlete. In 2015, the Giants passed on Todd Gurley and Melvin Gordon and took Flowers because they had David Wilson (not criticizing that move at the time because they and didn't need a running back). And then what happened?

Nobody can predict injuries, but coaches need to take steps to avoid them.

If we can all agree that a running back leaving his feet is a bad idea, that we can all agree that its a bad habit we can hope Barkley will overcome.
You guys are really asking a lot. I think some of you would not be  
Ivan15 : 4/22/2018 12:39 pm : link
Happy if Barkley was the reincarnation of Tomlinson, but I would be happy if he was the reincarnation of Tiki Barber with a better locker room presence.

Every down back. Could carry a team.
Wilson was a kamikaze throughout his . . .  
TC : 4/22/2018 12:55 pm : link
college career. And it was even more astonishing that he adopted such a style given his size and body type. It was so obvious as to be pointed out by many draft analysts as a serious concern.

And ignoring other significant deficiencies, notably an almost total lack of vision, what was foreseeable, and virtually inevitable, happened.
If you want to dig deep into old school...  
Milton : 4/22/2018 1:01 pm : link
How about a comparison to Gale Sayers?
RE: If you want to dig deep into old school...  
TC : 4/22/2018 1:10 pm : link
In comment 13925053 Milton said:
Quote:
How about a comparison to Gale Sayers?

Sayers was about 30 pounds lighter than Barkley.

Barkley is a bit shorter, but almost the same weight Jim Brown was.
RE: RE: If you want to dig deep into old school...  
Milton : 4/22/2018 1:14 pm : link
In comment 13925060 TC said:
Quote:
In comment 13925053 Milton said:


Quote:


How about a comparison to Gale Sayers?


Sayers was about 30 pounds lighter than Barkley.

Barkley is a bit shorter, but almost the same weight Jim Brown was.
Everybody was lighter then. And it's not like Barkley runs over people. I'm no scout, but Barkley is certainly a lot more like Gale Sayers than Jim Brown.
RE: RE: RE: If you want to dig deep into old school...  
TC : 4/22/2018 1:33 pm : link
In comment 13925065 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13925060 TC said:


Quote:


In comment 13925053 Milton said:


Quote:


How about a comparison to Gale Sayers?


Sayers was about 30 pounds lighter than Barkley.

Barkley is a bit shorter, but almost the same weight Jim Brown was.

Everybody was lighter then. And it's not like Barkley runs over people. I'm no scout, but Barkley is certainly a lot more like Gale Sayers than Jim Brown.

Barkley usually ELECTS not to try to run over tacklers. But yes, disregarding a few other similarities other than weight between Barkley and Brown, Sayers' and Barkley's style have quite a few similarities.
I am curious to one thing...  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 4/22/2018 1:41 pm : link
A lot of media is reporting that Barkley isn't really an inside the tackle runner... I'm wondering why? Is that because he just didn't do it much in college or can't. He's 6'0 230 pounds. That's what Zeke is. Peterson was 6'1 220.

Seems like he's built to take a pounding inside and can be used everywhere else.
RE: I am curious to one thing...  
TC : 4/22/2018 1:58 pm : link
In comment 13925100 Tim in Eternal Blue said:
Quote:
A lot of media is reporting that Barkley isn't really an inside the tackle runner... I'm wondering why? Is that because he just didn't do it much in college or can't. He's 6'0 230 pounds. That's what Zeke is. Peterson was 6'1 220.

Seems like he's built to take a pounding inside and can be used everywhere else.

He avoids contact to the extent possible.
RE: RE: I am curious to one thing...  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 4/22/2018 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13925126 TC said:
Quote:
In comment 13925100 Tim in Eternal Blue said:


Quote:


A lot of media is reporting that Barkley isn't really an inside the tackle runner... I'm wondering why? Is that because he just didn't do it much in college or can't. He's 6'0 230 pounds. That's what Zeke is. Peterson was 6'1 220.

Seems like he's built to take a pounding inside and can be used everywhere else.


He avoids contact to the extent possible.


I have really only seen highlights. Didn't watch many Penn State games
RE: RE: RE: RE: If you want to dig deep into old school...  
mdc1 : 4/22/2018 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13925095 TC said:
Quote:
In comment 13925065 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 13925060 TC said:


Quote:


In comment 13925053 Milton said:


Quote:


How about a comparison to Gale Sayers?


Sayers was about 30 pounds lighter than Barkley.

Barkley is a bit shorter, but almost the same weight Jim Brown was.

Everybody was lighter then. And it's not like Barkley runs over people. I'm no scout, but Barkley is certainly a lot more like Gale Sayers than Jim Brown.


Barkley usually ELECTS not to try to run over tacklers. But yes, disregarding a few other similarities other than weight between Barkley and Brown, Sayers' and Barkley's style have quite a few similarities.


That is going to be difficult in the NFL with the defensive closing speed.
Biggest thing I got out of this  
eli4life : 4/22/2018 2:04 pm : link
Holy crap your old
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If you want to dig deep into old school...  
TC : 4/22/2018 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13925141 mdc1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13925095 TC said:


Quote:


In comment 13925065 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 13925060 TC said:


Quote:


In comment 13925053 Milton said:


Quote:


How about a comparison to Gale Sayers?


Sayers was about 30 pounds lighter than Barkley.

Barkley is a bit shorter, but almost the same weight Jim Brown was.

Everybody was lighter then. And it's not like Barkley runs over people. I'm no scout, but Barkley is certainly a lot more like Gale Sayers than Jim Brown.


Barkley usually ELECTS not to try to run over tacklers. But yes, disregarding a few other similarities other than weight between Barkley and Brown, Sayers' and Barkley's style have quite a few similarities.



That is going to be difficult in the NFL with the defensive closing speed.

I think so too. But I suspect he'll adapt his running style. He seems to have a high football IQ, and awareness of his strengths, and to select among them what he thinks best suits a particular run. Le'veon Bell is another bigger RB whose running style in school sought to minimize contact, but he's become much more aggressive in the pro's.

RE: Barkley  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 4/22/2018 3:08 pm : link
In comment 13924972 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
Is a freak


A scat ack in a fullback/H-back body. Wtf?
RE: Wilson was a kamikaze throughout his . . .  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 4/22/2018 3:15 pm : link
In comment 13925052 TC said:
Quote:
college career. And it was even more astonishing that he adopted such a style given his size and body type. It was so obvious as to be pointed out by many draft analysts as a serious concern.

And ignoring other significant deficiencies, notably an almost total lack of vision, what was foreseeable, and virtually inevitable, happened.


Not like we completely telegraphed our pick, got jumped by TB, panicked and made a panicky reach pick. Smh.
Barkley is a great athlete BUT  
Vanzetti : 4/22/2018 4:00 pm : link
I don’t see him taking the league by storm with Giants OL.. He does not know how to use his blockers sufficiently. Maybe he will learn and become great like everyone says; or maybe he won’t and be the next Reggie Bush

Neither outcome would surprise me
Barkley is a great talent and receiver  
averagejoe : 4/22/2018 5:19 pm : link
but if he cannot run between the tackles he is not an every down RB. Like Sanders he will come off the field in short yardage/goal line situations. Don't want him at two but if he is the pick I will hope I am wrong.
When Jim Brown  
PaulN : 4/23/2018 9:16 am : link
Was a 230 lb. running back he was going against defensive linemen that averaged about 245 lbs and linebackers that averaged 225 lbs at best. He was faster, and bigger then almost everyone on the field, there was an intimidation factor with Jim Brown that does not exist today in the NFL with any running back, the only one who had a little of that was our own Brandon Jacobs, but he just did not have the talent of Brown, but try to imagine a combination of Faulk and Jacobs, that was what Jim Brown was, he was that good. In my opinion, the greatest football player I =ever saw.
RE: When Jim Brown  
Bill L : 4/23/2018 9:32 am : link
In comment 13925861 PaulN said:
Quote:
Was a 230 lb. running back he was going against defensive linemen that averaged about 245 lbs and linebackers that averaged 225 lbs at best. He was faster, and bigger then almost everyone on the field, there was an intimidation factor with Jim Brown that does not exist today in the NFL with any running back, the only one who had a little of that was our own Brandon Jacobs, but he just did not have the talent of Brown, but try to imagine a combination of Faulk and Jacobs, that was what Jim Brown was, he was that good. In my opinion, the greatest football player I =ever saw.
SO...second round or third?
Why the comparison to Calvin Hill  
Brown Recluse : 4/23/2018 10:11 am : link
and not other more recent NFL RB's who leap?
Good comparison  
One Man Thrill Ride : 4/23/2018 10:44 am : link
compelling and rich.

As insightful as it is timely and relevant.

Thrill compares Barkley to the Galloping Ghost Red Grange.
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