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Could Wheeler Start at Right Tackle?

TC : 4/22/2018 4:12 pm
I know he's penciled in to back up Solder, and that he played LT at USC, but I think I remember him playing at RT here before being moved, and looking pretty good doing it. Right now I'm not sold on Flowers at RT, and the depth after him doesn't look promising to me. If Wheeler should continue to develop and prove to be the team's best available tackle, anybody think he could wind up as starter?
Yes, absolutely.  
robbieballs2003 : 4/22/2018 4:23 pm : link
Just have to have competition and depth.
Its possible  
XBRONX : 4/22/2018 4:24 pm : link
he showed much better than the wasted 6th round pick.
Could he? Sure.  
81_Great_Dane : 4/22/2018 4:27 pm : link
I'm a lot less excited about him than a lot of guys on BBI, but it's really up to him. How hard will he work? How good will he get? We can't know that. Only he knows the limits of his motivation. And even if he's got elite motivation, we don't know how physically talented he is, whether his body will hold up, etc.
I'd almost rather that happen  
Eli Wilson : 4/22/2018 4:28 pm : link
Then they can take some time and teach Flowers some good technique. Maybe they could eventually turn him into a good guard.
Based on reports  
Dave on the UWS : 4/22/2018 4:35 pm : link
he's already up to 320. That speaks to his level of commitment. It looks like there's a decent chance Flowers is no longer with the team come training camp. Wheeler will get every chance to win the job.
If  
old man : 4/22/2018 4:35 pm : link
He wins the job.
It wasn't just a matter of strength. He was inconsistent  
Ira : 4/22/2018 4:41 pm : link
when trying to stay in front of nfl pass rushers last season. Sometimes it takes a tackle a while to pick up his game to a starting level. We'll see.
I don't understand  
Doomster : 4/22/2018 4:52 pm : link
the thought Flowers will be cut.....he has guaranteed money.....

He probably did not show up voluntarily, because they told him they were not going to exercise the fifth year option on him, by May 3.....

He knows he is under contract, he knows he is going to be paid whether he starts, is a backup, or is cut....

Would you cut a guy with guaranteed money, even if you make him a backup? If you do, you lose that money and then you have to pay for a guy to replace him....

He has to know, that if he doesn't play at RT or RG, the contract with another team for next year, will reflect this....it would be like him throwing money out the window...

I feel he will give 100%, which is about 75% of an average G/RT.......I'm sure his agent will point out to him, that he will be playing for his next contract.....this would give him an opportunity to sign a one year deal as a LT next year, to show everyone it was the Giant coaching staff and not him that was the problem....I think that's what he believes....
As for Wheeler,  
Doomster : 4/22/2018 4:55 pm : link
visiting the table and the weight room more often is not going to turn him into a RT.....he was an undrafted project, and he remains one.....we may be forced to use him....

He has a year of valuable experience......whether he turns into an average RT overnight, remains to be seen.....we better hope he does....
Dreams  
Dragon : 4/22/2018 5:11 pm : link
He could maybe be a developing backup OT this year but if he is our starter we are in deep kimchi.
Could he?  
WillVAB : 4/22/2018 5:14 pm : link
Yes. Will he? Maybe, but I wouldn’t attack the draft like we’re set at the tackle position.
He deserves to be in the discussion  
Sy'56 : 4/22/2018 5:21 pm : link
Yes
RE: I don't understand  
KeoweeFan : 4/22/2018 5:29 pm : link
In comment 13925323 Doomster said:
Quote:
the thought Flowers will be cut.....he has guaranteed money.....

He probably did not show up voluntarily, because they told him they were not going to exercise the fifth year option on him, by May 3.....

He knows he is under contract, he knows he is going to be paid whether he starts, is a backup, or is cut....

Would you cut a guy with guaranteed money, even if you make him a backup? If you do, you lose that money and then you have to pay for a guy to replace him....

He has to know, that if he doesn't play at RT or RG, the contract with another team for next year, will reflect this....it would be like him throwing money out the window...

I feel he will give 100%, which is about 75% of an average G/RT.......I'm sure his agent will point out to him, that he will be playing for his next contract.....this would give him an opportunity to sign a one year deal as a LT next year, to show everyone it was the Giant coaching staff and not him that was the problem....I think that's what he believes....


If DG thinks he is a locker room cancer (with a track record to back that up) he may want to complete the house cleaning and get whatever he can in the spring in a trade.
Erik certainly has not shown the commitment DG is looking for.
RE: As for Wheeler,  
chopperhatch : 4/22/2018 5:34 pm : link
In comment 13925324 Doomster said:
Quote:
visiting the table and the weight room more often is not going to turn him into a RT.....he was an undrafted project, and he remains one.....we may be forced to use him....

He has a year of valuable experience......whether he turns into an average RT overnight, remains to be seen.....we better hope he does....


Doomster, not only are your posts shitty in general,but they also show you dont watch the team. Wheeler more than showed his ability to get to the edge and other good foot work. Def enough for a RT in the NFL. He was getting beaten with power and needed time in the room.

But keep on sucking.
Just draft a friggin RT  
Reb8thVA : 4/22/2018 5:40 pm : link
And fix the OL already. The perennial BBI saga of finding that diamond in the rough is getting tiresome. I’d like to think the OL is improved but that whole right side still looks scary. How many years is I now?
Is it  
Reb8thVA : 4/22/2018 5:42 pm : link
Now is what I meant to say.
Didn't Flowers getting suspended last year or whatever happened  
robbieballs2003 : 4/22/2018 5:42 pm : link
void his guaranteed money at least partially?
RE: I don't understand  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/22/2018 5:46 pm : link
In comment 13925323 Doomster said:
Quote:
the thought Flowers will be cut.....he has guaranteed money.....

He probably did not show up voluntarily, because they told him they were not going to exercise the fifth year option on him, by May 3.....

He knows he is under contract, he knows he is going to be paid whether he starts, is a backup, or is cut....

Would you cut a guy with guaranteed money, even if you make him a backup? If you do, you lose that money and then you have to pay for a guy to replace him....

He has to know, that if he doesn't play at RT or RG, the contract with another team for next year, will reflect this....it would be like him throwing money out the window...

I feel he will give 100%, which is about 75% of an average G/RT.......I'm sure his agent will point out to him, that he will be playing for his next contract.....this would give him an opportunity to sign a one year deal as a LT next year, to show everyone it was the Giant coaching staff and not him that was the problem....I think that's what he believes....


If he was giving 100% he would have showed up, and shown some commitment to learning RT.

I've been in favor of giving Flowers every opportunity, but t this point it's becoming apparent that he doesn't give a shit.
Wheeler  
Big_Pete : 4/22/2018 5:52 pm : link
One of the key areas that Wheeler will need to improve is adding strength. I am keen to see how he goes this offseason with a full NFL offseason.
RE: Didn't Flowers getting suspended last year or whatever happened  
Diver_Down : 4/22/2018 5:59 pm : link
In comment 13925359 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
void his guaranteed money at least partially?


All players have a Forfeiture clause in their contract. There are different suspensions and corresponding fines. The distinction of Conduct Detrimental to the Team allows for the team to pursue repayment of the pro-rated signing bonus and void guarantees. In the case of 1st round picks, their contract is fully guaranteed. Now, with regards to Flowers, I don't think he was suspended for Conduct Detrimental. I know Apple was suspended with that distinction. It has been apparent with the "clean slate" PR that the team has foregone their right to pursue repayment and voiding the guarantees.

Anything is possible  
ChicagoMarty : 4/22/2018 6:05 pm : link
But I thought Wheeler was awful last year.
RE: RE: I don't understand  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/22/2018 6:14 pm : link
In comment 13925367 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 13925323 Doomster said:


Quote:


the thought Flowers will be cut.....he has guaranteed money.....

He probably did not show up voluntarily, because they told him they were not going to exercise the fifth year option on him, by May 3.....

He knows he is under contract, he knows he is going to be paid whether he starts, is a backup, or is cut....

Would you cut a guy with guaranteed money, even if you make him a backup? If you do, you lose that money and then you have to pay for a guy to replace him....

He has to know, that if he doesn't play at RT or RG, the contract with another team for next year, will reflect this....it would be like him throwing money out the window...

I feel he will give 100%, which is about 75% of an average G/RT.......I'm sure his agent will point out to him, that he will be playing for his next contract.....this would give him an opportunity to sign a one year deal as a LT next year, to show everyone it was the Giant coaching staff and not him that was the problem....I think that's what he believes....



If he was giving 100% he would have showed up, and shown some commitment to learning RT.

I've been in favor of giving Flowers every opportunity, but t this point it's becoming apparent that he doesn't give a shit.


You cant do anything but strength and conditioning at these OTAs. There's no football work being done.
Based on what we started at RT for the last several years  
Jimmy Googs : 4/22/2018 6:27 pm : link
"YES"...
We need to use premium draft picks...  
M.S. : 4/22/2018 6:34 pm : link

...for our O-line.

No legit right tackle and a marginal, back-up at right guard.

Oh, and by the way, as much as I like our Center, no one is gonna confuse him with Kevin Mawae or Nick Mangold.

And our left guard is serviceable as a starter... but he's no All-Star.

We need help!
Flowers is not coming back  
RobCrossRiver56 : 4/22/2018 6:36 pm : link
He just watched Pugh and Richburg get paydays and believes that he deserves to be paid too. Add to that they just replaced him with Solder and moved him to RT with a lower pay value.

He wants to to be played and paid at LT. And probably believes that the o-line problems were not his fault but the result of the MacAdo-do offence.

Betting on himself?

No,  
RottenApple : 4/22/2018 6:37 pm : link
And if so, they will have big problems. Again.
RE: Flowers is not coming back  
M.S. : 4/22/2018 6:40 pm : link
In comment 13925404 RobCrossRiver56 said:
Quote:
He just watched Pugh and Richburg get paydays and believes that he deserves to be paid too. Add to that they just replaced him with Solder and moved him to RT with a lower pay value.

He wants to to be played and paid at LT. And probably believes that the o-line problems were not his fault but the result of the MacAdo-do offence.

Betting on himself?

If Flowers is betting on himself, he's gonna lose that bet. He really isn't that good. He turned out to be a 4th round talent that Jerry Reese over-drafted by about 100 picks or so.

Flowers should try gardening, not football.
Could he at some point in the future  
Mike in NY : 4/22/2018 6:50 pm : link
Yes

I could also win the lottery or die in a car accident. There was little I saw last year that says he is ready right now to be a starting RT in the NFL. Hopefully with the time under his belt and this offseason he can come back looking better. That being said, he is not someone I would pencil in as the starter unless he wins it in camp/preseason. Flowers, for all of his issues between his ears, has demonstrated more than Wheeler has, but that is to be expected.
Pre draft... the right side of our OL is very weak  
Rick in Dallas : 4/22/2018 7:32 pm : link
It certainly needs to be addressed in the draft. At this time I am not sure Wheeler can be the answer at RT. Flowers has shown that he does not want to be a Giant based on his no show last week.
RE: Pre draft... the right side of our OL is very weak  
M.S. : 4/22/2018 7:37 pm : link
In comment 13925450 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
It certainly needs to be addressed in the draft. At this time I am not sure Wheeler can be the answer at RT. Flowers has shown that he does not want to be a Giant based on his no show last week.

Yep!
Actually I thought he was pretty promising last season, especially for  
PatersonPlank : 4/22/2018 7:47 pm : link
an undrafted rookie. He was our 2nd best Tackle and will just improve.
RE: Actually I thought he was pretty promising last season, especially for  
Mike in NY : 4/22/2018 7:53 pm : link
In comment 13925458 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
an undrafted rookie. He was our 2nd best Tackle and will just improve.


Being our 2nd best OT last year isn’t saying much especially since that means Flowers was our best OT (Fluker looked better at OG). It is no guarantee that Wheeler will improve. Where was the improvement from Richburg after his one good season?
As of today  
Jay on the Island : 4/22/2018 8:19 pm : link
I think he is the favorite to start at RT. He was undrafted due to his injury history and off the field issues. If it wasn't for that he would have been a possibly day two pick. He has the talent to start he just needs to stay healthy.

If the Giants add a RT early in the draft then I would like to see Wheeler shift over to LG. With the added weight he is the same weight as Pugh was last season. Wheeler could gain valuable experience and start at LG and potentially replace Solder in a few years. Omameh is a better fit at RG IMO.
I think Wheeler can be a plus player at OT...  
Milton : 4/22/2018 9:49 pm : link
But his long resume of injuries scares the hell out of me. Maybe that's an issue in his rearview mirror, maybe it isn't, but I would always want to have a reliable backup in place if he is the starter. If the Giants draft Orlando Brown or Tyrell Crosby, I could see them winning the starting job on the right side and Wheeler being ideal as the swing tackle off the bench on Sunday.
Orlando Brown has a lot of the same concerns that Flowers  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/22/2018 10:45 pm : link
and DJ Fluker had. He's simply incredibly big, and that has led to a ton of success in college. If he's too slow footed or weak in technique, he's just not going to translate to the NFL.
Like to pick up a Tackle in the draft to compete with him  
PatersonPlank : 4/22/2018 10:50 pm : link
Someone like Conner Williams would be ideal
RE: Orlando Brown has a lot of the same concerns that Flowers  
Milton : 4/22/2018 10:57 pm : link
In comment 13925587 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
and DJ Fluker had. He's simply incredibly big, and that has led to a ton of success in college. If he's too slow footed or weak in technique, he's just not going to translate to the NFL.
Flowers isn't slow footed and Brown is not weak in technique. Very different as prospects.

From Boylhart...
Quote:
He has good foot movement but what Orlando brings to his game more than his athletic size and talent is his confidence in his overall game and techniques NOT to guess or overreact to his opponents on pass blocking downs. Because of his long arms Orlando can wait for his opponents initial pass rush move to the outside or inside and then react to cut off the path to his quarterback. He is a solid run blocker getting out of his stance quick enough to move his opponent off the line of scrimmage. Orlando reminds me of the Buffalo Bills LT Cordy Glen.

full profile - ( New Window )
RE: Like to pick up a Tackle in the draft to compete with him  
Milton : 4/22/2018 11:03 pm : link
In comment 13925588 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Someone like Conner Williams would be ideal
Doubtful that he lasts past the top twenty or so picks, but I would love the pick. On the other hand, at 296 lbs with 33 inch arms, he is probably more of a left guard than a right tackle.
Orlando Brown will be an interesting test case to follow...  
Milton : 4/22/2018 11:11 pm : link
Prior to the combine he was considered a surefire 1st round pick and likely to go in the top half of it. But his performance in Indy wasn't just bad, it was historically bad. How far does he drop because of it? And what kind of career does he have? Good or bad, either way, he will be someone that is used for comparison reasons for years to come.
The concerns about Wheeler are significant.  
TC : 4/22/2018 11:16 pm : link
And while I want and expect the Giants to add OL talent via the draft, I'm not sure any rookie right out of the box is going to solve all their OL problems. There's often a significant learning curve for OL, even good ones. Usually takes a season, sometimes two. I wouldn't be surprised if they picked up a RT form another team.

If Wikipedia can be believed both the injury history and "off field" problems of Wheeler are pretty serious. Those, not a lack of talent, is why he was an UDFA. He was a talented and highly effective OL during his play at USC.

This on his "trivial off field" concerns -

"On December 19, 2015, Wheeler was involved in an incident on the USC campus. Los Angeles Police responded to a call at 8:45 AM at an apartment in South Los Angeles near the USC campus. The police arrived and a suspect, who was identified as Wheeler, was possibly under the influence of drugs and alcohol and was punching walls and windows in the apartment. After Wheeler injured his hand he ran out of the apartment, and then--ignoring the commands of police--ran back into the apartment. He was confronted by police who were concerned he might grab a weapon and got into an altercation with them that led the police to shoot him with multiple bean bag rounds, a type of less-lethal force. Wheeler was detained by the police but not arrested, and was instead transported to a local hospital to be held under protective custody for a psychiatric evaluation.[8] His girlfriend and her seven-month old son were present during the altercation; she was detained and released, the child was given to a family member."

Orlando Brown  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 4/23/2018 6:51 am : link
is Aaron Gibson 2.0. No thank you!
I’d be happy if he turns into a first-off-the-bench backup type  
TD : 4/23/2018 7:27 am : link
I have no illusions about him being a starter.. if he somehow does, great. I think we’ll see his ceiling this year - whatever it is.
Flowers  
PaulN : 4/23/2018 9:09 am : link
Is going to be traded, and they are lucky to get a 4th rounder for him, if they do I will be very happy, I expect a 5th round pick for him, people here still don't realize how bad this guy is. Plus he is a real attitude problem, time to say good riddance.
Flowers's days as an NYG are numbered  
Optimus-NY : 4/23/2018 12:23 pm : link
If he's not traded for a mid to late round pick during the draft, then he's not going to have his 5th year option picked up, making him a guy who's going to have to sing for his supper (1 year left to play on his deal). He's a guy who I can see fighting for a roster spot. He'll probably get a chance to play but without any more scholarship promises. JR is gone.
RE: Didn't Flowers getting suspended last year or whatever happened  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/23/2018 12:34 pm : link
In comment 13925359 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
void his guaranteed money at least partially?

He didn't get suspended. Spags was clear that he was out due to injury. So even if that was a lie and he actually was suspended, by Spags contradicting that, it would be a pretty clear grievance for the NFLPA to file.
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