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Sy and Dave Te' on Rosen . . . very different views

AnnapolisMike : 4/23/2018 9:46 am
This is not meant to knock either. But Sy loves him and Dave Te' does not. Dave Te' is very concerned about needing a 10 year supply of duct tape for Rosen and that he is not a great locker room guy.

See the linked podcast on QB's that Dave Te' did a few weeks ago. The Rosen commentary starts around 8:35 into the podcast. He thinks Josh Allen is the cream of the crop.

Dave Te' podcast - ( New Window )
And that is precisely why  
CT Charlie : 4/23/2018 9:53 am : link
many of us contend that the draft is a crapshoot.
Mayock agrees with Dave Te'  
Torrag : 4/23/2018 9:56 am : link
on Rosen: 'the question is about durability. Rosen's been hurt in college. He has an inability to protect himself in the pocket. He's a tough kid, but he gets hurt a lot. I don't know if he can survive in the NFL pocket for prolonged periods of time.”

It's a valid concern despite the Rosen fanboys desire to gloss over it.
I think the locker room stuff is wildly overstated,  
Section331 : 4/23/2018 9:59 am : link
but the injury concerns are legit. You miss 7 games in 2 years, it's a fair question. He's my favorite QB in the draft, but any team drafting him better make sure the medicals check out.
I listened  
mattyblue : 4/23/2018 10:01 am : link
to that, and I think the duct tape stuff sounded a little ridiculous, it’s as if Rosen had said super offensive things. It’s just a complete overreaction. You want to have concerns about durability, that’s understandable. The rest is nonsense.
Some here say we NEED to take a QB regardless  
Big Blue '56 : 4/23/2018 10:06 am : link
of whether or not the Giants view them as anything special and others believe they should go Barkley in that event.

There will always be a difference of opinion.
RE: Mayock agrees with Dave Te'  
bigbluescot : 4/23/2018 10:07 am : link
In comment 13925947 Torrag said:
Quote:
on Rosen: 'the question is about durability. Rosen's been hurt in college. He has an inability to protect himself in the pocket. He's a tough kid, but he gets hurt a lot. I don't know if he can survive in the NFL pocket for prolonged periods of time.”

It's a valid concern despite the Rosen fanboys desire to gloss over it.


Definitely. Durability is the major knock on Rosen. The personality stuff is by the by, some of it seems overblown and Aaron Rodgers is hardly a dynamic well liked personality, but you can't get around the durability.

Although, and it's no mitigation for Rosen, Mayfield and Allen have had more serious injuries than Rosen. Allen has actually missed more games: 14 games over two seasons (11 in 2015 with the broken collarbone which is now plated and 3 in 2017 with the shoulder injury)

And while Mayfield hasn't missed as many games recently, he's had the knee injury (if I remember it was a PCL?) and at least two concussions.

Durability is a knock on everyone except Darnold.
For college QB's beauty is in the eye of the beholder  
Heisenberg : 4/23/2018 10:09 am : link
Especially when you have prospects SO different from each other, like the top 5 are.
Boylhart, who is not a fan of Rosen's, had this to say about him...  
Milton : 4/23/2018 10:10 am : link
Quote:
Rosen is mentally tough. Probably one of the strongest mentally tough pocket passers I've ever seen. He takes hits that I've never seen QBs take at the college level before.
Rosen needs to learn that there's a thin line between bravery and getting yourself killed. Can that be coached or is it instinctive? I don't know.
given that Rosen will sit for a year or two (if drafted by us)  
superspynyg : 4/23/2018 10:11 am : link
I'm not concerned about his health. I am more concerned with his desire to play for 15 years.
RE: Mayock agrees with Dave Te'  
Gman11 : 4/23/2018 10:12 am : link
In comment 13925947 Torrag said:
Quote:
on Rosen: 'the question is about durability. Rosen's been hurt in college. He has an inability to protect himself in the pocket. He's a tough kid, but he gets hurt a lot. I don't know if he can survive in the NFL pocket for prolonged periods of time.”


Eli can teach him the "fall down when the sack is imminent" technique. It's the QB equivalent of the RB running out of bounds.
It's all important  
AnnapolisMike : 4/23/2018 10:16 am : link
Durability, skills, locker room and media savvy. The Giants were blessed that Eli was the complete package. Of the group that came out with Eli .... Eli was best suited to be the QB of the Giants. I think Ben and Phillip would have had a more difficult time. Ben by the accounts is still an asshole and not well liked in the locker room.

People downplay the locker room, media savvy aspect. But the QB of the NYG's is subject to pressures that most QB's are not.
Eli isn’t teaching him anything. He will have to watch and figure it  
Ivan15 : 4/23/2018 10:18 am : link
himself.

Besides if you listen to some posters, Eli should be cut if the Giants draft a QB.
Just shows how this draft really lacks a consensus outside of Barkley  
PatersonPlank : 4/23/2018 10:20 am : link
Although I'm sure some with agenda's will now say that Sy or Dave don't know what they are talking about.

Fact is that there are a bunch of guys bunched together, and that choices will be made on the fit for a specific team.
Didn't Rosen play golf  
Tim in VA : 4/23/2018 10:28 am : link
On a Trump course while wearing a F**k Trump hat? Regardless of your political point of view, that type of behavior would not mix in the New York market IMO
RE: RE: Mayock agrees with Dave Te'  
Big Blue '56 : 4/23/2018 10:33 am : link
In comment 13925978 Gman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 13925947 Torrag said:


Quote:


on Rosen: 'the question is about durability. Rosen's been hurt in college. He has an inability to protect himself in the pocket. He's a tough kid, but he gets hurt a lot. I don't know if he can survive in the NFL pocket for prolonged periods of time.”



Eli can teach him the "fall down when the sack is imminent" technique. It's the QB equivalent of the RB running out of bounds.


And why Eli has survived physically all these years and why some RBs are able to minimize cumilative hits by Judiciously running out of bounds when it makes zero sense to stay in and absorb unnecessary punishment
Cumulative  
Big Blue '56 : 4/23/2018 10:34 am : link
.
RE: Didn't Rosen play golf  
Milton : 4/23/2018 10:42 am : link
In comment 13926017 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
On a Trump course while wearing a F**k Trump hat? Regardless of your political point of view, that type of behavior would not mix in the New York market IMO
He's acknowledged that it was wrong for him to do that. He's owned up to that and the UCLA/Under Armour comments as mistakes on his part. He also admitted to behaving arrogantly after being handed the starting job his freshman year. It appears that he takes constructive criticism well and is as coachable off the field as he is on the field.
RE: Mayock agrees with Dave Te'  
barens : 4/23/2018 10:47 am : link
In comment 13925947 Torrag said:
Quote:
on Rosen: 'the question is about durability. Rosen's been hurt in college. He has an inability to protect himself in the pocket. He's a tough kid, but he gets hurt a lot. I don't know if he can survive in the NFL pocket for prolonged periods of time.”

It's a valid concern despite the Rosen fanboys desire to gloss over it.


What I find interesting about that, is that Phil Simms was a tough guy, but he got hurt a lot too. he ended up being a fan favorite.
RE: Didn't Rosen play golf  
AnnapolisMike : 4/23/2018 10:51 am : link
In comment 13926017 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
On a Trump course while wearing a F**k Trump hat? Regardless of your political point of view, that type of behavior would not mix in the New York market IMO


Nothing wrong with the occasional knucklehead move. Pictures of a dopey, drunk Eli in college are precious. The key is not doing those things once you are given the keys to the franchise. And even then it is only going to be a temporary speed bump (see Big Ben) if you are really good.
RE: Didn't Rosen play golf  
twostepgiants : 4/23/2018 11:00 am : link
In comment 13926017 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
On a Trump course while wearing a F**k Trump hat? Regardless of your political point of view, that type of behavior would not mix in the New York market IMO


You think being anti-Trump will hurt him in New York???
Greg Cosell and Ourlads likes Rosen and Mayfield  
giantstock : 4/23/2018 11:09 am : link
I think anyone who puts Josh Allen number 1 or number 2 is nuts.

So for Dave Te, Mike Mayock and Mel Kiper-- I say "nuts." They see him in the context of how they want an offense to run and not as scared of his shortcomings vs others.

I'm with Sy, Cosell and Ourlads with this.
The locker room thing with Rosen is pretty much debunked  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/23/2018 11:10 am : link
by everyone who's played with him.
18 year old wears a hat that is offensive to some?  
KWALL2 : 4/23/2018 11:24 am : link
It's a story and factor on how this kid stands as a prospect?

Umm....No. It means nothing.
No matter who Giants draft...  
Giant John : 4/23/2018 11:34 am : link
Eli will not be cut this year unless something unforeseen occur so. Eli is our QB this year unless he reall shits the bed which I doubt will happen.
Agree that his medical history is scary  
TD : 4/23/2018 11:40 am : link
But he is the best QB in this draft. All college QBs come with question marks. As others have pointed out, even Allen and Mayfield have injury histories.

Gotta take some chances if you don’t want to wind up in QB hell. Even more, a great QB - even if occasionally missing time - can win you rings. Way more valuable than a durable stud at any other position.

I’m all for Rosen and think the Giants are prepared to draft him or Darnold.

I keep going back and forth about whether they prefer Darnold or Rosen.
RE: Didn't Rosen play golf  
Optimus-NY : 4/23/2018 11:43 am : link
In comment 13926017 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
On a Trump course while wearing a F**k Trump hat? Regardless of your political point of view, that type of behavior would not mix in the New York market IMO


Umm, he's probably gained a ton of fans as a result of it back home in NY. Count me as one.
In the current political climate  
Thegratefulhead : 4/23/2018 11:43 am : link
I would like to know a scout/analyst's position on Trump. I think they should disclose for transparency. If you love Trump, it would be really hard to say anything positive about Rosen. On this topic, it would be difficult to be impartial for someone with strong political positions.
RE: Agree that his medical history is scary  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/23/2018 11:45 am : link
In comment 13926259 TD said:
Quote:


I keep going back and forth about whether they prefer Darnold or Rosen.


On the surface, Darnold seems to have more questions to answer regarding things he needs to get better at.
RE: In the current political climate  
Milton : 4/23/2018 11:48 am : link
In comment 13926272 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
I would like to know a scout/analyst's position on Trump. I think they should disclose for transparency. If you love Trump, it would be really hard to say anything positive about Rosen. On this topic, it would be difficult to be impartial for someone with strong political positions.
The scary thing is that could be true of Gettleman. In the Q&A with him following his hire, he named Benjamin Netanyahu as one of his heroes (or something like that).
RE: I listened  
sharpshooter66 : 4/23/2018 11:53 am : link
In comment 13925954 mattyblue said:
Quote:
to that, and I think the duct tape stuff sounded a little ridiculous, it’s as if Rosen had said super offensive things. It’s just a complete overreaction. You want to have concerns about durability, that’s understandable. The rest is nonsense.


Im not sure i agree. This is NY. If someone says "no one is untouchable" or any other small bread crumb it is pandemonium for 2 months. This is a shut up and play town imo.
The idea that Rosen is a locker room cancer is ridiculous.  
Ira : 4/23/2018 12:00 pm : link
I'm not in favor of drafting him because of his concussions, but I feel that the nonsensical criticisms of his character are way off and reflect more on those finding fault.
RE: RE: Mayock agrees with Dave Te'  
eric2425ny : 4/23/2018 12:59 pm : link
In comment 13925978 Gman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 13925947 Torrag said:


Quote:


on Rosen: 'the question is about durability. Rosen's been hurt in college. He has an inability to protect himself in the pocket. He's a tough kid, but he gets hurt a lot. I don't know if he can survive in the NFL pocket for prolonged periods of time.”



Eli can teach him the "fall down when the sack is imminent" technique. It's the QB equivalent of the RB running out of bounds.


I think the issue with Rosen is instincts. I don’t think he senses the rush in many cases and ends up taking shots. That’s a big problem in the NFL, especially with offensive line quality deteriorating league wide.
RE: RE: RE: Mayock agrees with Dave Te'  
Milton : 4/23/2018 1:12 pm : link
In comment 13926447 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
I think the issue with Rosen is instincts. I don’t think he senses the rush in many cases and ends up taking shots. That’s a big problem in the NFL, especially with offensive line quality deteriorating league wide.
He sees the rush fine, but he takes the hit in order to deliver the ball...
Quote:
A personnel executive for an AFC team who has scouted Rosen extensively: "He's really a special passer. He makes all the throws from the pocket. He makes you go 'wow' at least two to three times a game. He has pinpoint accuracy and can adapt to any system you want. And he'll stand in there and throw it and take a shot right under the chin if he has to -- that's hard to find. Of all these quarterbacks coming out, he's the most ready. You don't really have to do anything except teach him the system."
RE: RE: RE: RE: Mayock agrees with Dave Te'  
eric2425ny : 4/23/2018 1:19 pm : link
In comment 13926476 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13926447 eric2425ny said:


Quote:


I think the issue with Rosen is instincts. I don’t think he senses the rush in many cases and ends up taking shots. That’s a big problem in the NFL, especially with offensive line quality deteriorating league wide.

He sees the rush fine, but he takes the hit in order to deliver the ball...


Quote:


A personnel executive for an AFC team who has scouted Rosen extensively: "He's really a special passer. He makes all the throws from the pocket. He makes you go 'wow' at least two to three times a game. He has pinpoint accuracy and can adapt to any system you want. And he'll stand in there and throw it and take a shot right under the chin if he has to -- that's hard to find. Of all these quarterbacks coming out, he's the most ready. You don't really have to do anything except teach him the system."



Being tough can be great at times, but I’ll take one less big play to have a QB that stays healthy. Look at Wentz, it was just a matter of time before he was going to miss time, running into defenders instead of sliding, etc. I bet he’s a little more careful going forward.
Rosen  
PaulN : 4/23/2018 3:13 pm : link
Will beef up here, be allowed to sit for a season since we will be picking him,, and will be taught to protect himself.

Plus the NFL is close to tag football when it comes top QB's, don't see how people don't seem to understand this. If he were a guy that runs and moves out of the pocket, that would make it different, he will be fine up here and will be our pick at 2. Plus Gettleman will get him the hogs he needs.

ROSEN BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Considering that his own coach  
Rudy5757 : 4/23/2018 3:45 pm : link
doesnt think he is the best in the draft has to say something. There is something that just doesnt add up with this guy. I dont know,he looks good but too many people do not like him for some reason.I guess we will find out.

I dont want him based on his injuries. Tough is great until you get hurt, then you have to play smarter to be good and not get hurt.
RE: RE: In the current political climate  
Thegratefulhead : 4/23/2018 3:46 pm : link
In comment 13926292 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13926272 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


I would like to know a scout/analyst's position on Trump. I think they should disclose for transparency. If you love Trump, it would be really hard to say anything positive about Rosen. On this topic, it would be difficult to be impartial for someone with strong political positions.

The scary thing is that could be true of Gettleman. In the Q&A with him following his hire, he named Benjamin Netanyahu as one of his heroes (or something like that).
Maybe he meant Matisyahu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChV5BZ8SmS0
RE: Didn't Rosen play golf  
djm : 4/23/2018 3:52 pm : link
In comment 13926017 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
On a Trump course while wearing a F**k Trump hat? Regardless of your political point of view, that type of behavior would not mix in the New York market IMO


Why? 75% or the people living in the tri state area completely despise trump. Rosen will fit right in here.
I'm a Sy guy.  
Mr. Bungle : 4/23/2018 4:02 pm : link
Sorry, not sorry.
RE: RE: RE: In the current political climate  
Milton : 4/23/2018 4:09 pm : link
In comment 13926777 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
The scary thing is that could be true of Gettleman. In the Q&A with him following his hire, he named Benjamin Netanyahu as one of his heroes (or something like that).

Maybe he meant Matisyahu

Here he is on Kimmel (he has a funny comeback to Scott Baio) - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I listened  
giantstock : 4/23/2018 6:49 pm : link
In comment 13926304 sharpshooter66 said:
Quote:
In comment 13925954 mattyblue said:


Quote:


to that, and I think the duct tape stuff sounded a little ridiculous, it’s as if Rosen had said super offensive things. It’s just a complete overreaction. You want to have concerns about durability, that’s understandable. The rest is nonsense.



Im not sure i agree. This is NY. If someone says "no one is untouchable" or any other small bread crumb it is pandemonium for 2 months. This is a shut up and play town imo.


Where was the pandemonium? The media and Giants fans? How many games did it cost the Giants?
RE: Considering that his own coach  
giantstock : 4/23/2018 6:53 pm : link
In comment 13926773 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
doesnt think he is the best in the draft has to say something. There is something that just doesnt add up with this guy. I dont know,he looks good but too many people do not like him for some reason.I guess we will find out.

I dont want him based on his injuries. Tough is great until you get hurt, then you have to play smarter to be good and not get hurt.


You mean teh coach that bitched about being questioned by Rosen? He felt it important to bring it up that "you'll be questioned" on everything?
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