Do you trust the current front office in their conviction/execution in this rare #2 pick in franchise history?
A lot of people are pessimistic/annoyed in ownership over the last 5 seasons (deservedly so), I’d argue there is no pamphlet in transitioning a GM/HC/QB who have all contributed to 2 SB’s in the last decade. Most teams do not have this issue, and all teams minus NE do not operate in the ruthless manner which NE operates.
Mara/Tisch hired Gettleman and stuck to the “Giant way” of doing things whether right or wrong.
So with 3 days to go, will you trust the pick whether it be QB, Barkley, Chubb or trade down?
Awesome! Old guy just wants a job!
That you find the above assumption "reasonable" says a lot.
As far as confidence in making a single isolated pick (2), I don’t know. I think we’ll look back at it as a “meh” pick if it’s anything like his first rounders in Carolina. Overall though I’m confident he’ll put together a strong draft class.
Reese was the GM for two super bowl teams. Whether or not you like him or think it wasn’t his doing or whatever, he still has the rings. However, he is no longer viewed favorably.
I hope he becomes the greatest GM ever, but who knows at this point. Opinions change quickly and NY is a tough market.
They were, in no particular order: Selection of new HC, Our first round draft pick this year, the handling of the Odell contract situation, and the transition of Eli.
The soldier signing etc. are nice but these questions here are what will define the organization for the foreseeable future. These are huge opportunities (the #2 pick and HC, at least) but could also be a damaging blow to the org. if they fail on any one of these. Everything else is the standard year to year fare.
Let's see how DG handles these challenges and we can talk.
#Facts
The only move I didn't really get was the Stewart pick-up. I follow the Panthers and love Stewart, but he had a bad '17 season behind a line that was overall good to very good.
In fairness he did have 2 great games vs. MIN and MIA, so maybe Gettleman thinks he has just a bit left in the tank.
I think that (and other pick-ups) were more to improve the locker-room culture more than anything, though which I think is the team's No. 1 problem (with probably 2 being OL play). Stewart played a big part in the 2015 Panthers' culture -- that team's chemistry was excellent.
But... as has been said a few times, most felt the same way about Reese when he took over. Sooooo.... big deal?
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In comment 13926180 Go Terps said:
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I think Gettleman may have been hired with the caveat that Eli is to be the quarterback for at least 2018 and possibly 2019 as well.
An over correction move? I remember you being critical for the lack of sensitivity in the Eli benching last year for not being in the building. It’s hard for me to imagine this given Mara signed off on the original plan last November.
Mara did not like the blow back from the fans and media on Eli's handling. It crushed him. Remember, he takes that Giants brand very seriously - classiest organization in the NFL. So a 180 is easily logical - Shurmur is a QB whisperer, Shurmur still likes what he sees in Eli, Accorsi was roped back in (and he drafted Eli), and apparently DG likes what he saw of Eli on review...
If what you have stated here is accurate and that everyone but the ball boy thinks Eli has quality football ahead, why make the suggestion that selecting Barkley is "at the expense of the future, to give Eli another toy. Accorsi, Gettlemen (because of Accorsi) and Mara stupidly believe Eli has gas left in his tank." (you have now added Shurmer to this list)?
Maybe they don't see a franchise guy in this draft and feel that building the OL/Running game/DL etc... are in the best interest of the team given the talent that they have the opportunity to add.
And he was solid as GM in Carolina.
Unlike Reese, Gettleman understands what it takes to build a winning football team, specifically that winning begins up front and that when things don't go well, you have to make changes, two points that Reese never quite grasped.
He's made some great moves to date including firing Ross, overhauling the draft process, getting rid of Tom Quinn, reaming out a very under-achieving roster, and acquiring some quality veteran free agents.
There's a lot more work to be done, but Gettleman has my full confidence at this point.
The next major checkpoint is the draft.
I agree.
this
but I do like what he says and way he works so far. time will tell the whole story on Gettlemen and results
I have news for all of you. Most of these pro scouts and GMs and coaches are pros. They know what they are doing. Some are too stubborn or get a little complacent or have to operate within the confines of shitty ownership. There are exceptions but most of these guys know how to run a team.
Most need to get lucky. If you don't think luck plays a HUGE part in this thing you haven't been paying attention. GMs need to step in shit once in a while. They need to pick the right coach and hope that coach is a legend. How can you predict that Bill Parcells is a HOF HC in the making? How? Do you really think these GMs KNOW for sure beforehand? They might THINK it, but they don't know it...
I have faith in Gettleman. But I hope he gets lucky.
And he was solid as GM in Carolina.
Unlike Reese, Gettleman understands what it takes to build a winning football team, specifically that winning begins up front and that when things don't go well, you have to make changes, two points that Reese never quite grasped.
He's made some great moves to date including firing Ross, overhauling the draft process, getting rid of Tom Quinn, reaming out a very under-achieving roster, and acquiring some quality veteran free agents.
There's a lot more work to be done, but Gettleman has my full confidence at this point.
The next major checkpoint is the draft.
Seriously... sometimes I wonder if I've been watching the same team as some of the other so-called Giants fans on this site the last two years or so...
Holding people accountable every time something goes wrong, like so many fans insist on doing is the worst way to run a team.
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I initially groaned when it was announced Gettleman was the new GM. Since then he has done nothing but increase my faith in his ability to restore this roster to what it needs to be. I have total confidence in him as we approach the draft.
My view is that I respected DG as a football person but thought the Giants were too limited in their search. My feeling know is that Gettleman has some of Ernie's worst traits about clichés "You can get too cute," or "Your looking for a hall of famer." In other words, he likes the sound of his own voice (as did Ernie). How he will perform in his job is anybody's guess. Ernie was a walking box of clichés but he did his job very well. My point is I ignore all the bs talk, the people who need to have the "first" or "Hot" takes and grade them on what they do after giving them enough time to succeed.
I hope there some Accorsi in DG. After getting accustomed to years of expensive 9th pick overall and 1st and early round reach flubs and garbage FA signings resulting in a horrible oline, the Snee-Ohara-Diehl-McZenie line Accorsi built with a 2nd round draft pick seems like an unfathomable f***ING wizardy now to me.
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He did a good job for the GIANTS when he was here before.
And he was solid as GM in Carolina.
Unlike Reese, Gettleman understands what it takes to build a winning football team, specifically that winning begins up front and that when things don't go well, you have to make changes, two points that Reese never quite grasped.
He's made some great moves to date including firing Ross, overhauling the draft process, getting rid of Tom Quinn, reaming out a very under-achieving roster, and acquiring some quality veteran free agents.
There's a lot more work to be done, but Gettleman has my full confidence at this point.
The next major checkpoint is the draft.
Seriously... sometimes I wonder if I've been watching the same team as some of the other so-called Giants fans on this site the last two years or so...
Agreed. The hatred towards Reese? Thrill doesn't get it.
Listen up, losers. Gettleman worked with Reese for almost 15 years. He worked beneath Reese as the Dir of Pro Personnel from '08-'12.
Dave Gettleman and Jerry Reese are more similar than they are different. Of course there are differences in their attitudes towards certain positions.
...but both are "get your man" BPA obsessors. Old school types who'd say a RB at #2 adds up to great value while trading backwards is a bad move because you don't get the best player in the deal.
Doe Thrill believes in Gettleman? Well this GM search was kind of a sham, and his track record in Carolina doesn't indicate a gifted talent evaluator or difference-maker in upper management. Recent public statements:
"Devalue of RBs is a myth"
"Missing at QB is a five year mistake"
...THrill finds these remakrs to be extremely troubling and terrifying short-sighted. It affirm Thrill's fear that nothing has changed orginizationally from Accorsi-Reese-Gettleman. Philosophy remains the same: draft better, ... , win championships?
If what you have stated here is accurate and that everyone but the ball boy thinks Eli has quality football ahead, why make the suggestion that selecting Barkley is "at the expense of the future, to give Eli another toy. Accorsi, Gettlemen (because of Accorsi) and Mara stupidly believe Eli has gas left in his tank." (you have now added Shurmer to this list)?
Maybe they don't see a franchise guy in this draft and feel that building the OL/Running game/DL etc... are in the best interest of the team given the talent that they have the opportunity to add.
That's the beauty of it. You can twist any decision into an indictment of a GM, owner, coach -- pick your target of choice. If the Giants pick a QB, does it mean that DG has successfully wrestled control of the team from Mara? Or maybe Mara was on board with drafting one all along, and those who thought Mara is an over-loyal boob were just dead wrong - but nah, that couldn't happen.
I agree
So they will draft Barkley, at the expense of the future, to give Eli another toy. Accorsi, Gettlemen (because of Accorsi) and Mara stupidly believe Eli has gas left in his tank.
They have rebuilt the oline with the addition of Solder and Omameh and are hopeful OBJ will come back at least 90% of his former production. And they will try to add more pieces for Eli and the D in the second wave of free agency after the draft.
But to answer your question, I am agnostic on Gettleman. It's not entirely his show and he's being compelled to follow the blueprint laid out by Mara and Accorsi...
I have a weird feeling that this is the case. IF it is, then batten down the hatches for a decade of bad football.
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In comment 13926445 Red Dog said:
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He did a good job for the GIANTS when he was here before.
And he was solid as GM in Carolina.
Unlike Reese, Gettleman understands what it takes to build a winning football team, specifically that winning begins up front and that when things don't go well, you have to make changes, two points that Reese never quite grasped.
He's made some great moves to date including firing Ross, overhauling the draft process, getting rid of Tom Quinn, reaming out a very under-achieving roster, and acquiring some quality veteran free agents.
There's a lot more work to be done, but Gettleman has my full confidence at this point.
The next major checkpoint is the draft.
Seriously... sometimes I wonder if I've been watching the same team as some of the other so-called Giants fans on this site the last two years or so...
Agreed. The hatred towards Reese? Thrill doesn't get it.
Listen up, losers. Gettleman worked with Reese for almost 15 years. He worked beneath Reese as the Dir of Pro Personnel from '08-'12.
Dave Gettleman and Jerry Reese are more similar than they are different. Of course there are differences in their attitudes towards certain positions.
...but both are "get your man" BPA obsessors. Old school types who'd say a RB at #2 adds up to great value while trading backwards is a bad move because you don't get the best player in the deal.
Doe Thrill believes in Gettleman? Well this GM search was kind of a sham, and his track record in Carolina doesn't indicate a gifted talent evaluator or difference-maker in upper management. Recent public statements:
"Devalue of RBs is a myth"
"Missing at QB is a five year mistake"
...THrill finds these remakrs to be extremely troubling and terrifying short-sighted. It affirm Thrill's fear that nothing has changed orginizationally from Accorsi-Reese-Gettleman. Philosophy remains the same: draft better, ... , win championships?
Thrill: Accorsi did draft Eli, and traded up to do it. So there's that. And why did everyone miss Gettleman's comment after the five year mistake one that - "if you ask the right questions, you'll get the answers you need." Is it possible Gettleman feels he asked the right questions of the QBs and got the answers he needed of the QBs?
Keep on looking for the grassy knoll.
I'll wait and see. I don't need my GM to be a personality or do too much talking, and DG certainly has that part down in spades. We're in uncharted territory with a guy who's never been in this position in the draft with a franchise at these crossroads before. I don't see how anyone could have an especially high confidence level for a guy with no track record in this area.
Keep on looking for the grassy knoll.
You're kidding right? In January at the Shurmur press conference, Mara said how pleased he was to hear Shurmur say that he thought Eli had "years left". It's just astonishing to me how people don't see how the backlash to the benching of Eli - and Mara did support it, true - crushed Mara. The possibility that he'd have to wear that albatross as the Eli slayer, when many fans didn't want that, created this code red to keep Eli.
So now that he's got intel that Eli can still play - per Shurmur, Accorsi and DG - Mara sees this as an opportunity to make amends for his f-ck up. Thus, the plan is underway - save Eli by any means necessary.
If what you have stated here is accurate and that everyone but the ball boy thinks Eli has quality football ahead, why make the suggestion that selecting Barkley is "at the expense of the future, to give Eli another toy. Accorsi, Gettlemen (because of Accorsi) and Mara stupidly believe Eli has gas left in his tank." (you have now added Shurmer to this list)?
Maybe they don't see a franchise guy in this draft and feel that building the OL/Running game/DL etc... are in the best interest of the team given the talent that they have the opportunity to add.
It is not in the best interest of the team to draft a RB #2 - in this rarefied air of drafting this high - when it's a position that is the most fungible in the NFL.
On top of that, this is a bumper crop draft for RBS. There is not this massive, clear difference between Barkley and his peers. Is he better? Maybe, sure. Is he that much better than KJohnson Jones, Michel, etc that he is a clear no-brainer at #2? NFW. RBs grow on trees. There are RB trees all over - high school, college, Canada, etc. Be patient and snag one later.
At #2, if you are planning correctly, you have to take either a QB, DE/DR, or maybe a corner or LT. Fortunately, this is a very good year for the most important position, so it makes all the sense in the world to draft a QB. Take a QB to begin the transition to the future and find a RB in day two that could be impactful day one...
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If what you have stated here is accurate and that everyone but the ball boy thinks Eli has quality football ahead, why make the suggestion that selecting Barkley is "at the expense of the future, to give Eli another toy. Accorsi, Gettlemen (because of Accorsi) and Mara stupidly believe Eli has gas left in his tank." (you have now added Shurmer to this list)?
Maybe they don't see a franchise guy in this draft and feel that building the OL/Running game/DL etc... are in the best interest of the team given the talent that they have the opportunity to add.
It is not in the best interest of the team to draft a RB #2 - in this rarefied air of drafting this high - when it's a position that is the most fungible in the NFL.
On top of that, this is a bumper crop draft for RBS. There is not this massive, clear difference between Barkley and his peers. Is he better? Maybe, sure. Is he that much better than KJohnson Jones, Michel, etc that he is a clear no-brainer at #2? NFW. RBs grow on trees. There are RB trees all over - high school, college, Canada, etc. Be patient and snag one later.
At #2, if you are planning correctly, you have to take either a QB, DE/DR, or maybe a corner or LT. Fortunately, this is a very good year for the most important position, so it makes all the sense in the world to draft a QB. Take a QB to begin the transition to the future and find a RB in day two that could be impactful day one...
Fair enough.
I'm okay with a quarterback the running back or even the defensive end.
I would love for Cleveland to swap with us.
It's a fun spot that a fun time to be in.
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And it’s all about going all in on Eli ironically fail to realize the rumors that Mara wanted Eli benched last year or that Mara has been paying Eli millions upon millions the last few years. We know Mara didn’t stop mcadoo from benching eli.
Keep on looking for the grassy knoll.
You're kidding right? In January at the Shurmur press conference, Mara said how pleased he was to hear Shurmur say that he thought Eli had "years left". It's just astonishing to me how people don't see how the backlash to the benching of Eli - and Mara did support it, true - crushed Mara. The possibility that he'd have to wear that albatross as the Eli slayer, when many fans didn't want that, created this code red to keep Eli.
So now that he's got intel that Eli can still play - per Shurmur, Accorsi and DG - Mara sees this as an opportunity to make amends for his f-ck up. Thus, the plan is underway - save Eli by any means necessary.
That’s all well n good but That doesn’t mean that Mara has thrown down an edict to bypass the drafting of a franchise qb all for the sake of his conscience and Eli’s feelings. If the giants bypass the qb you’re gonna say told you so but its likely they just didn’t like any of these Qbs. I think you’re reaching big time. And what if they do draft a qb? Why draft Webb last year? Shit why draft a qb ever? Why let mcadoo bench Eli?
There’s evidence to support the belief that the giants are going to phase Eli out sooner than later.
I don’t see how this is productive.
That’s all well n good but That doesn’t mean that Mara has thrown down an edict to bypass the drafting of a franchise qb all for the sake of his conscience and Eli’s feelings. If the giants bypass the qb you’re gonna say told you so but its likely they just didn’t like any of these Qbs. I think you’re reaching big time. And what if they do draft a qb? Why draft Webb last year? Shit why draft a qb ever? Why let mcadoo bench Eli?
There’s evidence to support the belief that the giants are going to phase Eli out sooner than later.
I'm not a told-you-so guy. It's just my working theory based on stitching everything together since the catastrophic 2017 season ended. No one wants a QB more than me in this draft - I want either Darnold or LamJax - and would love to be wrong on this...
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That’s all well n good but That doesn’t mean that Mara has thrown down an edict to bypass the drafting of a franchise qb all for the sake of his conscience and Eli’s feelings. If the giants bypass the qb you’re gonna say told you so but its likely they just didn’t like any of these Qbs. I think you’re reaching big time. And what if they do draft a qb? Why draft Webb last year? Shit why draft a qb ever? Why let mcadoo bench Eli?
There’s evidence to support the belief that the giants are going to phase Eli out sooner than later.
I'm not a told-you-so guy. It's just my working theory based on stitching everything together since the catastrophic 2017 season ended. No one wants a QB more than me in this draft - I want either Darnold or LamJax - and would love to be wrong on this...
Fair enough. I still don’t know what I want — I just want an awesome player. The selfish side of me, the side that has season tix and wants to see exciting players and winning football asap wants Barkley. The patient fan in me that remembers 1994-2004 wants the qb. I think the qb to take is rosen but any of them will do because I believe shurmur can work magic.
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And it’s all about going all in on Eli ironically fail to realize the rumors that Mara wanted Eli benched last year or that Mara has been paying Eli millions upon millions the last few years. We know Mara didn’t stop mcadoo from benching eli.
Keep on looking for the grassy knoll.
You're kidding right? In January at the Shurmur press conference, Mara said how pleased he was to hear Shurmur say that he thought Eli had "years left". It's just astonishing to me how people don't see how the backlash to the benching of Eli - and Mara did support it, true - crushed Mara. The possibility that he'd have to wear that albatross as the Eli slayer, when many fans didn't want that, created this code red to keep Eli.
So now that he's got intel that Eli can still play - per Shurmur, Accorsi and DG - Mara sees this as an opportunity to make amends for his f-ck up. Thus, the plan is underway - save Eli by any means necessary.
Mara is probably smart enough to grasp that the same fans crying crocodile tears for eli's "unjust" teatment are the same fans that have booed the crap out of him before and will be the same fans throwing trash on the field in a 3/4ths empty stadium in december if the team continues to be a dumpster fire even with a fan favorite under center. Nobody's paying for a ticket to watch Eli Manning play into his 40s on a lousy team.
There's nothing in Mara's history to lend to the idea that gigantic, franchise-shifting decisions get made on wild swings of emotion or catering to what highly fickle fans want.
in DG we trust - ( New Window )