Assuming we don't go QB in this draft what's your plan....

In comment 13926253 Britt in VA said:

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and let him and Davis Webb duke it out in camp.

Paulette doesn't have and NFL arm.

If that is the case, I see 2 different scenarios:

- We draft Barkely. We team him up with Beckham and Engram who will play the move tight end position predominantly and not as the in-line tight end. Assuming Eli plays 2 more years, I see all in their prime at that time and with a better offensive line built up, I don't think you need a stud QB with the skill positions stocked the way they are (nor could you afford a high profile free agent qb). Forecasting that, I think you do nothing this year and see how Webb is progressing (he needs to become #2 and as such, should see plenty of time this pre-season.) You could probably hedge your bet and grab another QB NEXT draft at around 3-4th round.

- We trade down. Again, with a bounty of picks we could probably stock a very good offensive line and still couple with Engram/Beckhum. I would probably be more conservative in counting on Webb without amazing talent at the skill positions and hedge my bet a different way. With the trade down, we would get a future 1. Until I'm very confident with Webb, I continue to trade that 1 into the future so at any time necessary, I have 2 #1's (that and our own) to move up in the draft to take a QB.

I have some confidence in Webb but I also know that the 1st replacement for Eli will have a hard time. That is why I'm somewhat reluctant to go #1 this year. I think it would be much easier for the replacement to come in if Eli retired gracefully or got hurt. I also think having someone (like Webb) to observe Eli for about 2 years to see how to conduct yourself as a QB in New York would be beneficial. Webb may have that luxury. You draft a QB with pick #2 and he needs to start at minimum next year.

You can point to Rodgers all you want but I think he was the 22nd pick in the draft and not the 2nd.

That way we can relive the excitement of...

Graham vs. Brown
Brown vs. Kanell
Pisarcik vs. Whoever the hell he beat out

Plan B would be to hope we really suck next year while at the same time hope that the college QB crop is MUCH better than advertised. (It's not supposed to be on par with this year's QB class.)

Plan C would be to hope the next Kirk Cousins-type of QB shakes free so we can pay through the nose and tie up a good chunk of our cap.

With awesome options like these the Giants would be foolish to take a QB at 2.

would be to trade down. That trade down would include a #1 next year. That way if we need to move up next year we'd have the draft capital to do so.

later such as Mason Rudolph, or Lauletta, plug him in to compete with Webb for a year, and see where we're at in a year. As Eli fades, the chance we're back in the top 10 increases.

In comment 13926419 GiantsLaw said:

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would be to trade down. That trade down would include a #1 next year. That way if we need to move up next year we'd have the draft capital to do so.

I'm with this.

Trade down a few spots, pick up a #1 next year and/or multiple picks this year in rounds 2 and 3.

We need to acquire talent to build up the roster.........

In comment 13926312 Anakim said:

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Reminds me of the freshman kid from dazed and confused.

In comment 13926429 JonC said:

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later such as Mason Rudolph, or Lauletta, plug him in to compete with Webb for a year, and see where we're at in a year. As Eli fades, the chance we're back in the top 10 increases.

Jon, you mentioned on another thread that you didn’t see Jackson as an option. Is that your opinion or something you’ve heard?

In comment 13926439 bradshaw44 said:

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In comment 13926312 Anakim said: Quote: Reminds me of the freshman kid from dazed and confused.

Haha, good call

To scream to the mountain tops that passing on Rosen or Darnold was a mistake.

In comment 13926429 JonC said:

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later such as Mason Rudolph, or Lauletta, plug him in to compete with Webb for a year, and see where we're at in a year. As Eli fades, the chance we're back in the top 10 increases.

Jon I think you are one of the best posters I have read in all my time on BBI. However, I think you got that backwards, the longer Eli plays the better draft pick we will get lol. I know you have said Darnold I’d the only QB you think k the Giants like, but I just don’t get the logic of passing on all these QBs. It seems like you are kicking a large crater down the road. The odds of Webb being the answer is slim. When you have the opportunity to get a replacement for Eli without giving up a fortune is a blessing. It really feels like Gettleman is scared to take a QB. He keeps repeating that it sets the franchise back 5 years. How many years does it set the franchise back when we can’t find a QB? I hope I am wrong, but it seems like a horrendous decision to me.

I don't see NYG drafting a QB that has a number of question marks projecting as a passer in the NFL, and a poor wonderlic score. Would expect them to look for a big, strong, pocket passer who could be the face of the franchise.

And Webb doesn't plan out after Eli leaves, they'll likely play the journeyman QB for awhile.

Something like the Kent Graham, Danny Kanell era. Will have to rely heavily on Barkley (if that's the choice) or another and defense.

Maybe hit a one year wonder like a Hostetler ie yo win the big one.

In comment 13926449 The_Boss said:

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To scream to the mountain tops that passing on Rosen or Darnold was a mistake.

I will meet you on the mountain to scream, or throw Gettleman off either way.

In comment 13926452 JonC said:

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I don't see NYG drafting a QB that has a number of question marks projecting as a passer in the NFL, and a poor wonderlic score. Would expect them to look for a big, strong, pocket passer who could be the face of the franchise.

Thanks, appreciate the response. Makes a lot of sense.

In comment 13926439 bradshaw44 said:

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In comment 13926312 Anakim said: Quote: Reminds me of the freshman kid from dazed and confused.

Good call. I immediately saw the same.

I meant be back drafting in the top 10.

The logic behind picking at QB at #2 is absolutely sound, imv, but you've got to believe in the prospect(s) available at the same time. It doesn't make much sense to draft one of the sake of it, that pick has to make a big impact for this franchise to have success in the near and longer term.

Given that, my instinct is NYG will value Barkley/Chubb above the QBs, with the exception of Darnold. Only four more days until we find out.

In comment 13926463 JonC said:

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I meant be back drafting in the top 10. The logic behind picking at QB at #2 is absolutely sound, imv, but you've got to believe in the prospect(s) available at the same time. It doesn't make much sense to draft one of the sake of it, that pick has to make a big impact for this franchise to have success in the near and longer term. Given that, my instinct is NYG will value Barkley/Chubb above the QBs, with the exception of Darnold. Only four more days until we find out.

I understand what you are saying, I just don’t see how the Giants don’t like any of these QBs and I think they are exaggerating how much football is left in Eli. However, as always I appreciate your thoughts. Let the depression begin!

In comment 13926463 JonC said:

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I meant be back drafting in the top 10. The logic behind picking at QB at #2 is absolutely sound, imv, but you've got to believe in the prospect(s) available at the same time. It doesn't make much sense to draft one of the sake of it, that pick has to make a big impact for this franchise to have success in the near and longer term. Given that, my instinct is NYG will value Barkley/Chubb above the QBs, with the exception of Darnold. Only four more days until we find out.

Agreed. Though honestly if they don't love one of the QBs, they need to consider options for trading back to a QB desperate team who does. My choice at 2 is Barkley if Darnold isn't on the board, but considerations for value of QB would have me eyeing options to trade back for a haul of picks, especially if the landing spot left me in the top 6/7 (in position to select Barkley/Chubb/or Nelson).

Jerry Goldstein?

one at all. Too many other holes on the roster.

If Webb isn't the answer, then the path forward simply isn't known yet. I'm sure they'll do whatever they have to, should the right prospect come along...similar to how the Eagles acquired Carson Wentz.

In the end, as long as its the right guy...no one will care how he was acquired.

Given all the trade down chatter, it seems they're working to at least be positioned to do it.

I think #5 is the lowest they'd drop, any lower and their sights probably drop to Nelson but it's a gamble. And, if what we're hearing is accurate then they could be concerned about moving down and losing out on Chubb.

To me, moving to #4 makes sense if Barkley's gone and your prefer Chubb to any QB. But, if they're not sure the Browns pass on Chubb at #2 after a trade up, you can't make the deal and could be why we've heard Chubb to NYG at #2.

even more amusing is in the recent video of Papa talking with DG it shows him watching film of the Eagles game lol. He really wants to harp on Eli’s amazing play in one game. Although he also is shown watching a UCLA game.

but stay in the top 6 or 7 to get an instant starter. Think we have to get that with our top pick, Would love Chubb or Nelson. Getting another #1 for next year works too.

don’t see the return on those trades being worth it. If teams are desperate get more. Not middle round picks. 1st rounders. What did we give for Eli? It’s really sounding like we are getting fleeced. I just gotta let it go lol. Passing on the QB is just to annoying to me. Hope I am utterly wrong.

discussions beforehand are almost ripping your hat that you aren’t going with one of the QBs. Which Buffalo can realize and not need to trade up to 2. If they get to 5, they end up with the QB Cleveland and the Jets didn’t take.

Not ripping sorry

But IMO, the thought of passing on Darnold to trade down for Chubb is a head scratcher. I like Chubb and all, but you have a supposed QB guru as a HC and Eli affording you time to develop a guy like Darnold, if you can't make that work with his skillsets under those conditions, you are never going to find a guy that meets your standards. Perfect prospects don't exist. The closes we've seen is Luck, and he's been out of commission. No sure things, and that goes for QBs, and non-QBs alike.

In comment 13926514 UberAlias said:
[quote] But IMO, the thought of passing on Darnold to trade down for Chubb is a head scratcher. I like Chubb and all, but you have a supposed QB guru as a HC and Eli affording you time to develop a guy like Darnold, if you can't make that work with his skillsets under those conditions, you are never going to find a guy that meets your standards. Perfect prospects don't exist. The closes we've seen is Luck, and he's been out of commission. No sure things, and that goes for QBs, and non-QBs alike. [/quote

Totally agree!!

here is that they are somehow either trying to get Cleveland to pick someone at 1 with all this talk, while they stay at 2 and get the QB they want. Assuming they have a good idea who Cleveland wants.

You have to move down! If you don’t then you made a mistake! If you take a QB (I’m cool with that) if you don’t and move down (I’m good with that also). If we take Chubb at #2 we made a mistake. Not that he isn’t a good player but we didn’t maximize value.

Darnold is my choice as well.

I actually prefer Barkley to Chubb, but wouldn't complain if they picked the EDGE rusher over the RB.

If the Giants do not draft a QB with the second pick I just hope that they do not use a premium pick on a second tier QB.

In selecting a QB in rounds 2-4 the Giants would be acknowledging that they do not have complete confidence in Webb and they were bringing in competition.

That passing on Rosen is going to come back to haunt us. I would be happy with Rosen or Darnold.

Our backup plan if we don’t land one of the top 2-3 is hopes and prayers.

No thanks. We didn’t lose 13 games for aRB or DE.

and none will ever come again. And, you make it sound like management has never considered that Eli might get older each year.

I'm sure neither is true.

Having stability at the QB (or any) position is important, but everyone is going all Chicken Little. I think that in the long run, you're always better off trying to get the best players. Eventually, everything then falls in line.

Personally, I don't know which if any of the QB's in this draft are keepers. All have too many weaknesses.

Plan: Webb starts every pre season game and plays in any blowout.
Eli has 2 years left in him, 3 if Giants fill in OL/DL/LB. He is and was an average QB, so giving him a strong OL/DL will keep him uninjured.
Giants receive extra 1st & possibly 2nd this draft.
Giants will be drafting in top 1/3 of 2019 daft. With extra 1st & 2nd minimum they will be able to build interior .
Giants get solid review of Webb's ability. Decision is made at end of 2018 season.
Result A - Webb is player. replaces Eli. Giants bring in experienced veteran.
Result B - Webb is not player.
Giants have built a top OL/DL/LB. They have 2 1st rd picks and 2 2nd rd picks in 2019.
Eli plays out last year . Giants bring in FA and draft Qb with 1 of their 1st rd picks.
Giants return to predominately run team.

In comment 13926535 JonC said:

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Darnold is my choice as well. I actually prefer Barkley to Chubb, but wouldn't complain if they picked the EDGE rusher over the RB.

Jon who do you think Cleveland is taking at 1? It’s a complete mystery to me.

In comment 13926256 ryanmkeane said:

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In comment 13926253 Britt in VA said: Quote: and let him and Davis Webb duke it out in camp. Lauletta in the 2nd would be a disaster.

What is it you don't like about Lauretta? I think 2nd round is a little early. However, if he is there at the top of the third, I would grab him. Did you see the senior bowl? Dude looked terrific.

In comment 13926780 Ed A. said:

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In comment 13926256 ryanmkeane said: Quote: In comment 13926253 Britt in VA said: Quote: and let him and Davis Webb duke it out in camp. Lauletta in the 2nd would be a disaster. What is it you don't like about Lauretta? I think 2nd round is a little early. However, if he is there at the top of the third, I would grab him. Did you see the senior bowl? Dude looked terrific.

Have you seen Lauletta play? Just take a look at his highlight videos and the lack of arm strength jumps out at you. His deep passes have way too much air under them. I am not even sure if he has enough arm strength to complete intermediate passes in the NFL. He would be a disaster during the windy winter months at metlife stadium.

In comment 13927112 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 13926780 Ed A. said: Quote: In comment 13926256 ryanmkeane said: Quote: In comment 13926253 Britt in VA said: Quote: and let him and Davis Webb duke it out in camp. Lauletta in the 2nd would be a disaster. What is it you don't like about Lauretta? I think 2nd round is a little early. However, if he is there at the top of the third, I would grab him. Did you see the senior bowl? Dude looked terrific. Have you seen Lauletta play? Just take a look at his highlight videos and the lack of arm strength jumps out at you. His deep passes have way too much air under them. I am not even sure if he has enough arm strength to complete intermediate passes in the NFL. He would be a disaster during the windy winter months at metlife stadium.

Yeah he really doesn’t have a good arm. I don’t think he will last long in the NFL

We already have a young guy behind Eli. If we enter 2018 with Eli & Webb as our QBs I think you continue to develop Webb and reconsider the issue at next year's draft.

Personally, I think the optimal scenario on Thursday is a trade down with our selection being any of the following: Chubb, Nelson, Roquan Smith, or Vea.

In comment 13926470 mattyblue said:

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In comment 13926463 JonC said: Quote: I meant be back drafting in the top 10. The logic behind picking at QB at #2 is absolutely sound, imv, but you've got to believe in the prospect(s) available at the same time. It doesn't make much sense to draft one of the sake of it, that pick has to make a big impact for this franchise to have success in the near and longer term. Given that, my instinct is NYG will value Barkley/Chubb above the QBs, with the exception of Darnold. Only four more days until we find out. I understand what you are saying, I just don’t see how the Giants don’t like any of these QBs and I think they are exaggerating how much football is left in Eli. However, as always I appreciate your thoughts. Let the depression begin!

I agree. I think that with the exception of John Elway and Andrew Luck, QB prospects often get knocked in the lead up to the draft. It's easy to poke holes in their game because it's such a difficult position to play and the learning curve is so high. No QB since Andrew Luck was a legit "can't miss prospect" -- not Jameis Winston, not Carson Wentz. If Carson Wentz was a can't miss prospect, he would have been the unanimous #1 pick in the draft. Instead, he went #2, and Jared Goff certainly wasn't a can't miss prospect either. Neither was Eli Manning, for that matter.

I don't want to have to trade away a haul of draft picks in 3-4 years in order to trade up to try to get a guy who doesn't have any greater guarantee of succeeding than Rosen or Darnold.

This would be my ideal plan for maximizing value in this draft if we were willing to bypass QB.....

TRADE DOWN SCENARIO #5: 3-WAY TRADE WITH BROWNS AND BILLS + 2nd TRADE WITH DENVER

Cleveland goes from 1 to 2 (3000-2600=400 pts owed)
Cleveland goes from 4 to 12 (1800-1200=600 pts owed)
Cleveland total=1000pts owed

NY goes from 2 to 4 (2600-1800=800pts owed)
NY total=800pts owed

So NY goes to 4 and gets 22 (22=780pts pts)
And Cleveland goes to 2 and 12 and gets 53+ 56+ 65 ( 370+ 340+265 pts=975 pts) and 2019 1st rd pick

As for why this could work:

Strategic Trade Down while still drafting BPA. Yesterday’s 3-team trade rumor has me intrigued because it is win for all 3 teams. Buffalo seems to be willing to trade away the farm to move up for a QB. The Giants seems to be open to a small trade down (not 12) and The Browns 2 biggest needs are QB and LT. They will get the QB with their 1st pick but their 2nd @ 4 is too early for McGlinchey, possibly the best LT in the draft (or Connor Williams/Kolton Miller), so I understand why moving to 12 is not such a bad idea……and getting a ton of extra picks.



GIANTS GIVE PICK #2
GIANTS GET PICKS #4,22 (3rd round 2019)

GIANTS GIVE PICK #4
GIANTS GET PICKS #5,70,113

ROUND 1 Pick 5
Options: LB Tremaine Edmunds, Quentin Nelson, Saquon Barkley , Minkah Fitzpatrick, Bradley Chubb, Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen
Choice: RB Saquon Barkley- QBs go 1-2-3-4 for the first time in draft history. Giants beneficiary of a double trade down and still get top non-QB in entire draft. Home-run threat in 3 phases: run ,pass and special teams. Giants get highest instant impact player in draft to make another run with Eli

ROUND 1 Pick 22
Options: G ISAIAH WYNN, Conor Williams, Jaire Alexander, Courtland Sutton, Leighton Van Der Esch,Rashaan Evans,Harold Landry(16.5 sacks JR year), Isaiah Oliver CB, LT/RT Kolton Miller, James Daniels, Will Hernandez
Choice: OG ISAIAH Wynn- Not quite the pure mauler Willie is but better all around versatility and can play multiple spots on OL at high level


Round 2 pick 2
Options: Will Hernandez OG, James Daniels,Billy Price, Ronnie Harrison, Ronald Jones, Sony Michel, Isaiah Oliver CB, Justin Reid FS
Choice: Isaiah Oliver CB- one of my favorite CBs in this entire draft. Tremendous smarts,coverage ability, and very long arms. NFL Comp: Nnamdi Asomugha with the Raiders.


Round 3 pick 2
Options:Lorenzo Carter,Kyle Lauletta, Frank Ragnow ,Josh Sweat, Darius leonard
Choice:LB Lorenzo Carter -toolsy LB with size and speed in the Leonard Floyd mold , edge rushing potential as well


ROUND 3 Pick 5
Options: Quentin Meeks,Shaquem Griffen, Leonard Davis, Kellen Ballage, Rashaad Penny, Kemeko Turay
Choice: EDGE Kemeko Turay- Pass rusher oozing with potential. Blocked 3 kicks and had 7.5 sacks (as a freshman!)



ROUND 3 Pick 6
Options: Kyle Lauletta,Quentin Meeks,Shaquem Griffen, Lorenzo Carter, Shaquem Griffin,Oren Burks, Darius Leonard
Choice: QB Kyle Lauletta- Another coach on the field. Senior Bowl MVP. Outside the 1st round Qbs Giants paid most interest to him. insurance behind Webb once Eli retires with some upside.


2019 3rd rd pick

Needs addressed: Running game, one of top most versatile OL in draft, one of top red chip CBs, versatile high upside LB, high upside Edge rusher, competition/insurance for Davis Webb.

For the reasoning listed in above strategy section

Buffalo- Rosen
Browns-Darnold (get their top guy anyways while picking up a bunch of picks)
Jets-Mayfield
Broncos- Allen
Giants-Barkley (get our top guy while picking up a bunch of picks)

If the Giants brass has a conviction in a couple of years about a QB prospect, they'll move heaven & earth to go get him.

In comment 13927445 Big_Blue_in_the_Bronx said:

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This would be my ideal plan for maximizing value in this draft if we were willing to bypass QB..... TRADE DOWN SCENARIO #5: 3-WAY TRADE WITH BROWNS AND BILLS + 2nd TRADE WITH DENVER Cleveland goes from 1 to 2 (3000-2600=400 pts owed) Cleveland goes from 4 to 12 (1800-1200=600 pts owed) Cleveland total=1000pts owed NY goes from 2 to 4 (2600-1800=800pts owed) NY total=800pts owed So NY goes to 4 and gets 22 (22=780pts pts) And Cleveland goes to 2 and 12 and gets 53+ 56+ 65 ( 370+ 340+265 pts=975 pts) and 2019 1st rd pick As for why this could work: Strategic Trade Down while still drafting BPA. Yesterday’s 3-team trade rumor has me intrigued because it is win for all 3 teams. Buffalo seems to be willing to trade away the farm to move up for a QB. The Giants seems to be open to a small trade down (not 12) and The Browns 2 biggest needs are QB and LT. They will get the QB with their 1st pick but their 2nd @ 4 is too early for McGlinchey, possibly the best LT in the draft (or Connor Williams/Kolton Miller), so I understand why moving to 12 is not such a bad idea……and getting a ton of extra picks. GIANTS GIVE PICK #2 GIANTS GET PICKS #4,22 (3rd round 2019) GIANTS GIVE PICK #4 GIANTS GET PICKS #5,70,113 ROUND 1 Pick 5 Options: LB Tremaine Edmunds, Quentin Nelson, Saquon Barkley , Minkah Fitzpatrick, Bradley Chubb, Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen Choice: RB Saquon Barkley- QBs go 1-2-3-4 for the first time in draft history. Giants beneficiary of a double trade down and still get top non-QB in entire draft. Home-run threat in 3 phases: run ,pass and special teams. Giants get highest instant impact player in draft to make another run with Eli ROUND 1 Pick 22 Options: G ISAIAH WYNN, Conor Williams, Jaire Alexander, Courtland Sutton, Leighton Van Der Esch,Rashaan Evans,Harold Landry(16.5 sacks JR year), Isaiah Oliver CB, LT/RT Kolton Miller, James Daniels, Will Hernandez Choice: OG ISAIAH Wynn- Not quite the pure mauler Willie is but better all around versatility and can play multiple spots on OL at high level Round 2 pick 2 Options: Will Hernandez OG, James Daniels,Billy Price, Ronnie Harrison, Ronald Jones, Sony Michel, Isaiah Oliver CB, Justin Reid FS Choice: Isaiah Oliver CB- one of my favorite CBs in this entire draft. Tremendous smarts,coverage ability, and very long arms. NFL Comp: Nnamdi Asomugha with the Raiders. Round 3 pick 2 Options:Lorenzo Carter,Kyle Lauletta, Frank Ragnow ,Josh Sweat, Darius leonard Choice:LB Lorenzo Carter -toolsy LB with size and speed in the Leonard Floyd mold , edge rushing potential as well ROUND 3 Pick 5 Options: Quentin Meeks,Shaquem Griffen, Leonard Davis, Kellen Ballage, Rashaad Penny, Kemeko Turay Choice: EDGE Kemeko Turay- Pass rusher oozing with potential. Blocked 3 kicks and had 7.5 sacks (as a freshman!) ROUND 3 Pick 6 Options: Kyle Lauletta,Quentin Meeks,Shaquem Griffen, Lorenzo Carter, Shaquem Griffin,Oren Burks, Darius Leonard Choice: QB Kyle Lauletta- Another coach on the field. Senior Bowl MVP. Outside the 1st round Qbs Giants paid most interest to him. insurance behind Webb once Eli retires with some upside. 2019 3rd rd pick Needs addressed: Running game, one of top most versatile OL in draft, one of top red chip CBs, versatile high upside LB, high upside Edge rusher, competition/insurance for Davis Webb.

I think the basic value of the trades would work well for Giants.
Changes: Chubb at rd 1 Pick 5. NO RB in round 1 ever worked for Giants
Rd 3 pick 6: Pick up a RB here or large slot receiver. No need for another 3rd rd QB. Pick up veteran during pre season after evaluating Webb.

DG and Shurmur are big proponents of running the ball. Shurmur is mostly a ZBS guy. Shurmur also seems to love a multipurpose back and heavily utilizes him in the offense (see Dalvin Cooks monster 4 games before injury).

RB talent is questionable/quite thin on this roster and our short ydge or goalline back can be Stewart.

I would say Zeke Elliot, Fournette and Gurley have played huge roles for their teams getting into the playoffs the last few years. Barkley would likely do the same here.

That way Eli is more appreciated and gets his number retired sooner and maybe helps with the HOF vote some day.

Meanwhile, this way the Giants are likely to draft top 10 thee years in a row and stops all the inane talk on BBI about "the confidence" they have in some 3rd round pick who's never taken one single solitary f**king snap in the NFL.