Baldinger with some interesting analysis on Barkley

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Don't make nothing out of something. Not ever.Yes it is just one run. But he had plenty of room and was arm tackled in red zone. I think he is a great talent but I'm not sure his game translates to NFL. I see him as Reggie Bush. Not a three down back. There is risk involved with every pick.

Show a great shoestring tackle and Barkley picking up 7 yards.
Somehow I missed what I should be afraid of?

This was about the worst example to use for not drafting Barkley.

In comment 13927359 averagejoe said:

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Don't make nothing out of something. Not ever.Yes it is just one run. But he had plenty of room and was arm tackled in red zone. I think he is a great talent but I'm not sure his game translates to NFL. I see him as Reggie Bush. Not a three down back. There is risk involved with every pick.

Do you consider Todd Gurley a great running back? Because I watched a lot of Rams games last year and he has plays like that all the time. He’ll lose 3 yards then rip off 20 like it’s nothing.

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Some body tell me if Barkley would be the best RB on NYG if they draft him?

He will be a top 10 NFL back on Thursday night. Everyone has to chime in with how great it how bad he will be. I have seen enough video to understand what he could do for the balance of the offensive attack. He will make our team better because good teams:

1.Force other teams to stop the run
2. Possess the ball and move the chains, controlling the clock
3. Score in the redzone and goal to go situations.
4. Make big plays. Barkley is a home run hitting RB. We haven't had one since 2006.

How much better a QB is Darnold or Rosen to Barkley as a RB?

?

In comment 13927359 averagejoe said:

Quote:

Don't make nothing out of something. Not ever.Yes it is just one run. But he had plenty of room and was arm tackled in red zone. I think he is a great talent but I'm not sure his game translates to NFL. I see him as Reggie Bush. Not a three down back. There is risk involved with every pick.

Not ever? Barry Sanders begs to differ.

In comment 13927365 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

In comment 13927359 averagejoe said: Quote: Don't make nothing out of something. Not ever.Yes it is just one run. But he had plenty of room and was arm tackled in red zone. I think he is a great talent but I'm not sure his game translates to NFL. I see him as Reggie Bush. Not a three down back. There is risk involved with every pick. Do you consider Todd Gurley a great running back? Because I watched a lot of Rams games last year and he has plays like that all the time. He’ll lose 3 yards then rip off 20 like it’s nothing.

I prefer Fournette. He can get the tough yard and break a long one too.

In comment 13927375 clatterbuck said:

Quote:

In comment 13927359 averagejoe said: Quote: Don't make nothing out of something. Not ever.Yes it is just one run. But he had plenty of room and was arm tackled in red zone. I think he is a great talent but I'm not sure his game translates to NFL. I see him as Reggie Bush. Not a three down back. There is risk involved with every pick. Not ever? Barry Sanders begs to differ.

You prove my point. Sanders was removed in short yardage/goal line situations. If Giants pick Barkley I sure hope I'm wrong.

because of one play..

lets not draft anyone..

Darnold turns the ball over too much
Rosen is a head injury waiting to happen
Mayfield is crazy and short
Allen is a project who has a low completion percentage
Chubb isnt explosive enough
Nelson has some questions on pass protection..

OMG there is no perfect prospect !!!

on a team with a quality QB, a decent OL (Penn State OL was well known not to be very good), not playing in a RPO offense, and where he isnt option 1,2,3 and 4 for the offense.. And where he has explosive playmakers on the outside (OBJ) and ones that attack the middle of the field in Engram and Shep..

OH and someone tell me what Pat Shurmur's/Mike SHula offensive scheme and run concepts will be..

Then tell me how he will or wont be effective on the Giants..

OH and for the record.. I dont care who we draft.. as long as they are good and the Giants know how they want to utilize them in their scheme

until our next selection is in 2020. Maybe then there will be some perfect draft candidates.

And we are sure to land them since we will have accumulated 224 picks and will control the entire draft from start to finish.


lord, this place needs an enema...

Barkley is 230+ pounds Bush is/was right around 200 pounds. Barkley is exactly what you would build in a lab if you were building a RB for the NFL.

Got it exactly right, IMO.

In comment 13927359 averagejoe said:

Quote:

Don't make nothing out of something. Not ever.Yes it is just one run. But he had plenty of room and was arm tackled in red zone. I think he is a great talent but I'm not sure his game translates to NFL. I see him as Reggie Bush. Not a three down back. There is risk involved with every pick.

What??? Not a 3 down back? And you’re really saying that a great rb can’t be stopped for no gain once in a while? The giants completely stone walled bo jackson for an entire game.

Cmon

than Reggie Bush. I still don't know where that comparison came from. It's awful.

In comment 13927388 blueblood said:

Quote:

because of one play.. lets not draft anyone.. Darnold turns the ball over too much Rosen is a head injury waiting to happen Mayfield is crazy and short Allen is a project who has a low completion percentage Chubb isnt explosive enough Nelson has some questions on pass protection.. OMG there is no perfect prospect !!!

That's the point - we are constantly told that Barkley is in fact the perfect prospect. A generational talent. A gold jacket guy. The other guys are all flawed - everyone agrees on that but not Barkley.

Baldinger is pointing out what should be obvious from looking at a few clips and checking the stat lines. He looks indecisive at times and likes to run east-west. 21 carries 56 yards vs Indiana, 14 carries 35 yards against Rutgers. All this doesn't sound like the sure-fire superstar he's made out to be. Maybe he will be great but there's concerns about him like everyone else. Would be nice if the pro-Barkley contingent would acknowledge that.

When your QB is old and in decline

Not saying he won’t be good but he might not be as good as everyone thinks. Getting shut down that many times worries me. Frankly I’m more excited to see how shurmur would use him in the passing game.

The spread between him, Guice, michel, Jones and penny isn’t large enough for me to take him over Darnold or Rosen.

and tell me again there's little difference between Barkley and other RB. Sy gave him his 4 best grade EVER for any player. If they take a QB fine, but this crap about Barkley is ridiculous.

Even if the above is true, there are also "a bust QB" to be had.

I could see if most folks had come to a strong consensus on the QBs, but the opinions on Allen, Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen are all over the map. That tells me it's too great a risk to take on of these guys at 2nd overall.

There is a diversity of opinion about top 10 QBs almost every year. Peyton Manning vs Ryan Leaf; Alex Smith vs Aaron Rodgers; Jamarcus Russell is "can't miss".

I almost think it's better to keep drafting QBs in the 3rd round. Eventually, you'll find a Russell Wilson or a Nick Foles and if you're wrong, you don't set the franchise back years.

In comment 13927409 bluepepper said:

Quote:

In comment 13927388 blueblood said: Quote: because of one play.. lets not draft anyone.. Darnold turns the ball over too much Rosen is a head injury waiting to happen Mayfield is crazy and short Allen is a project who has a low completion percentage Chubb isnt explosive enough Nelson has some questions on pass protection.. OMG there is no perfect prospect !!! That's the point - we are constantly told that Barkley is in fact the perfect prospect. A generational talent. A gold jacket guy. The other guys are all flawed - everyone agrees on that but not Barkley. Baldinger is pointing out what should be obvious from looking at a few clips and checking the stat lines. He looks indecisive at times and likes to run east-west. 21 carries 56 yards vs Indiana, 14 carries 35 yards against Rutgers. All this doesn't sound like the sure-fire superstar he's made out to be. Maybe he will be great but there's concerns about him like everyone else. Would be nice if the pro-Barkley contingent would acknowledge that.

Question.. that game where the Giants shut Ezekiel Elliot down two years ago.. did Ezekiel Elliot just become a player that was no good..

everyone seems to be doing the same thing.. picking out the games where he didnt perform.. but not giving the why.. did the line perform poorly?? They run an RPO system.. did the QB make the wrong call against the wrong fronts? How many plays did they stack 8 guys in the box to stop Barkley? Was the passing game benefiting from the attention given to stopping Barkley...

Its easy for anyone to throw up stats without knowing all the other factors.. and its easy to show a few plays here and there over the course of a season that were bad runs.. bad choices..

Ive seen plays where when Barkley took the ball there were like five guys already in the backfield with his OL getting pushed back.. thats going to limit ANY RB..

Now.. my question again.. and stating once again.. im not PRO any player.. I simply seek to try and understand why the Giants might choose player A or B..

How will Barkley be used by the GIANTS and Pat Shurmur.. THATS the most important question now..

In comment 13927359 averagejoe said:

Quote:

Don't make nothing out of something. Not ever.Yes it is just one run. But he had plenty of room and was arm tackled in red zone. I think he is a great talent but I'm not sure his game translates to NFL. I see him as Reggie Bush. Not a three down back. There is risk involved with every pick.

Kid is 5'11 233 lbs! Runs a 4.4 and can cut on a dime like OBJ. His pass blocking is already pretty good. Stellar character, hard working, not a diva. Local kid. He is anything but Reggie bush.

The greats do occasionally make bad plays too you know.

In comment 13927439 blueblood said:

Quote:

In comment 13927409 bluepepper said: Quote: In comment 13927388 blueblood said: Quote: because of one play.. lets not draft anyone.. Darnold turns the ball over too much Rosen is a head injury waiting to happen Mayfield is crazy and short Allen is a project who has a low completion percentage Chubb isnt explosive enough Nelson has some questions on pass protection.. OMG there is no perfect prospect !!! That's the point - we are constantly told that Barkley is in fact the perfect prospect. A generational talent. A gold jacket guy. The other guys are all flawed - everyone agrees on that but not Barkley. Baldinger is pointing out what should be obvious from looking at a few clips and checking the stat lines. He looks indecisive at times and likes to run east-west. 21 carries 56 yards vs Indiana, 14 carries 35 yards against Rutgers. All this doesn't sound like the sure-fire superstar he's made out to be. Maybe he will be great but there's concerns about him like everyone else. Would be nice if the pro-Barkley contingent would acknowledge that. Question.. that game where the Giants shut Ezekiel Elliot down two years ago.. did Ezekiel Elliot just become a player that was no good.. everyone seems to be doing the same thing.. picking out the games where he didnt perform.. but not giving the why.. did the line perform poorly?? They run an RPO system.. did the QB make the wrong call against the wrong fronts? How many plays did they stack 8 guys in the box to stop Barkley? Was the passing game benefiting from the attention given to stopping Barkley... Its easy for anyone to throw up stats without knowing all the other factors.. and its easy to show a few plays here and there over the course of a season that were bad runs.. bad choices.. Ive seen plays where when Barkley took the ball there were like five guys already in the backfield with his OL getting pushed back.. thats going to limit ANY RB.. Now.. my question again.. and stating once again.. im not PRO any player.. I simply seek to try and understand why the Giants might choose player A or B.. How will Barkley be used by the GIANTS and Pat Shurmur.. THATS the most important question now..

He's scheme diverse but using him as a power back and playing smashmouth football with him primarily would obviously be not leveraging his greatest strengths. Marshall Faulk,Barry Sanders, Marcus Allen ...get these guys in the open field . Shurmur know how to use a multipurpose back.

In comment 13927361 larryflower37 said:

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Show a great shoestring tackle and Barkley picking up 7 yards. Somehow I missed what I should be afraid of? This was about the worst example to use for not drafting Barkley.

I saw exactly the same thing. Barkley made the right read as the safety was shading to his right, went where HE SHOULD HAVE and the LB for IU made a tremendous play escaping the block and tripping him up AFTER GAINING 7 YARDS.

Baldy is good, but this video is a crappy example of what Barkley may or may not be.

Choose the right hole he just got ankle tackled happens every week to NFL players. If he is not tackled he walks into the end zone the LB shifted left to fill the wide open hole you mentioned. There also seemed to be some confusion on what play was being called in the end he gained positive yards.

what happened on the next play.

Barkley would be a huge reach in round 1, I no longer want him.

In comment 13927431 Dmartin said:

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Not saying he won’t be good but he might not be as good as everyone thinks. Getting shut down that many times worries me. Frankly I’m more excited to see how shurmur would use him in the passing game. The spread between him, Guice, michel, Jones and penny isn’t large enough for me to take him over Darnold or Rosen.

For all we know, the margin of difference between Darnold and Rosen and Webb or Laudetta/Rudolph is less than that between Barkley and Guice, michel, Jones and penny. We do know that the margin of difference between Barkley and the QB's is huge. Just considering talent only. You need to give plenty points for position to make it closer.

It's an interesting problem (for the Giants brass) but a silly exercise.

He doesn't finish runs or grind out the tough yards like some other elite backs. His passing skills separate him from the pack, but as a runner it may not translate to the degree some expect. After Darnold, I'm torn between Barkely and Rosen. But the it should be noted none of these guys are locks. We are getting way ahead of ourselves with this generational talent hype.

To try and prove a point. However the body of work has to be evaluated without bias.

He shows tremendous vision more often than not and a quick processor of anticipating angles and countermoves.

If we still had KG/TC's offense I'd be less enthusiastic but he is a PERFECT FIT in Shurmur's O.

He's a 230 # Lesean McCoy.

In comment 13927542 mittenedman said:

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If we still had KG/TC's offense I'd be less enthusiastic but he is a PERFECT FIT in Shurmur's O. He's a 230 # Lesean McCoy.

Correct. If you are going to cherry pick bad plays it becomes a pointless thread. His skills are a dead on match for what we want to do with the offense moving forward. "He played bad against Rutgers" isn't analysis and its pretty much useless to even talk about as there are about 100 reasons why he had a bad game.

I'm interested in how we would use him, not how a crappy Penn State used him.

Was the same critique be made of the great Barry Sanders - "dances too much, gets caught behind the L.O.S", plenty

Barkley doesn't have the quick twitch ability that Sanders had (nobody does), but he's close.

Barkley tears through tackles, like Bush never could.

Barkley runs away from the field (as good as Bush and better than Sanders could)

but if they pick Barkley they are getting a great college player, a good person and clean bill of health. RB's have short shelf lives in the NFL that's my concern.

They'e looking at possibly settling for the 3rd best QB (after the Giants & Jets) ....

I say they trade their 4th over-all to the Giants if that happens.

IF they don't go Barkley (which they should), We go Barkley and don't look back. Period.