The #Giants have had trade discussions centered around former first-round OT Ereck Flowers, sources say. He has stayed away from voluntary workouts, and the belief is the new staff will be able to trade him for draft compensation. Could be a fresh start for all sides.
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There is a negative way and a positive way to look at the New York Giants 2015 NFL Draft class:
Negative: The Giants drafted a right tackle with a top 10 pick. They desperately drafted two safeties in a very weak draft at that position, actually spending four picks to do so. The team also drafted a defensive end with a bad hip, a wide receiver who had trouble separating from collegiate defensive backs, and a guard who cant run.
Positive: The Giants drafted three players who many thought could have gone in the first round. In what was widely considered to be a weak draft class, the Giants drafted two immediate starters in offensive tackle Ereck Flowers and strong safety Landon Collins and possible eventual starters in defensive end Owamagbe Odighizuwa and free safety Mykkele Thompson.
I am going to lean towards the positive interpretation for this draft. If you told me before the draft that the Giants would come out with Flowers, Collins, and Odighizuwa, I would have said you were crazy. Even some of the most critical NYG fans were giving New York an A after the first two days of the draft. Day 3 left a bad taste with many, but regardless of how you feel about that day, it should not erase the fact that the Giants drafted three players who should have both an immediate and a long-term impact on the franchise.
Before we get into the pros and cons of the Giants first three players, lets take a higher-level look at what these three players bring to the table: TOUGHNESS. Whether NYG fans want to admit it or not, the New York Giants since 2011 have not been a very tough or physical team. This is best demonstrated by their shoddy ability to run the ball and stop the run. But really, the issue has been even deeper than that. This is a team that has folded in some games after it got punched in the mouth. Ereck Flowers, Landon Collins, and Owamagbe Odighizuwa wont put up with that shit. This team just got a lot tougher on both sides of the football. New York Giants are supposed to be tough. End of story.
OT Ereck Flowers, 66, 329 pounds, 5.35, University of Miami
To be blunt, the team had to come out of this draft with a rookie starter on the offensive line. Thats why it was almost guaranteed that the Giants were going to draft Brandon Scherff, Ereck Flowers, Andrus Peat, or Lael Collins (pre-off-the-field issue). The Giants were clearly targeting Scherff, but were not surprised to see him drafted before they picked. Unless WR Amari Cooper somehow landed in their lap, it was going to be Scherff or Flowers. Now the big question here is were the Giants forced to reach for Flowers because their desperate need on the offensive line? Many who liked Flowers did not consider him a top 10 pick. Top 20 or 30, but not top 10. These people suggest that the Giants may have been better off drafting RB Todd Gurley, DT Danny Shelton, or WR Devante Parker. A few made a case for CB Trae Waynes. But all four of those players had their warts too: Gurley the ACL, Shelton being one dimensional, Parkers mental make-up, and the grabiness of Waynes in coverage.
For weeks leading up to the draft, I thought that unless wideouts Amari Cooper or Kevin White fell to the Giants, from a value-need perspective, the pick was obviously going to be an offensive lineman. Scherff, Flowers, Peat, and Collins were all widely regarded as being worthy first round draft picks. All signs pointed to one of these four. The question really become, which one? The Redskins took Scherff out of the equation. Tragic circumstances took Collins out of the equation. So it came down to Flowers versus Peat. Each has their advocates. Peat is the smoother, more technically-sound left tackle; Flowers the meaner, more physical one. Most assume Peat will be an NFL left tackle; Flowers may be limited to right tackle (though the Giants dont share this view). If I were making the pick, it would have been a coin flip between Peat and Flowers. Im just glad the Giants got one of them. As I said, they needed to come out of this draft with an immediate starter on the offensive line. And they were fortunate that in this case, the value seemed to match up with the need. My only reservation? I do wonder if they missed out on a special player in Gurley. That said, this draft was simply too important for the Giants to screw up. They could not afford to take the risk on Gurleys knee. The responsible pick was the offensive lineman.
Ereck Flowers brings size, strength, toughness, and nastiness to an offensive line that needed all four of those attributes. He looks born to play right tackle in the NFL and the combination of Flowers and Geoff Schwartz will give the Giants almost 700 pounds of beef on the right side of the line. Flowers biggest negative technique is correctable. You cant teach size, athletic ability, or toughness. Moreover, if the Giants are right and Flowers can eventually be a franchise left tackle, then there is no arguing against this pick. But it will be interesting to track the careers of Flowers versus Peat.
I guess Reese liked Flowers just as much as most others when the pick was made? BBI Draft Review 2015... but yeah, let's shit on the guy for making a pick that most liked at the time... - ( New Window )
I can honestly say I was against then and still am. He was never going to be a good LT. I remember being in like at Dicks buying some stuff for my daughter after her soccer game earlier (as we were seeing a movie shortly after and she needed a change of shirt) and when the selection came up I was so disappointed.
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There is a negative way and a positive way to look at the New York Giants 2015 NFL Draft class:
Negative: The Giants drafted a right tackle with a top 10 pick. They desperately drafted two safeties in a very weak draft at that position, actually spending four picks to do so. The team also drafted a defensive end with a bad hip, a wide receiver who had trouble separating from collegiate defensive backs, and a guard who cant run.
Positive: The Giants drafted three players who many thought could have gone in the first round. In what was widely considered to be a weak draft class, the Giants drafted two immediate starters in offensive tackle Ereck Flowers and strong safety Landon Collins and possible eventual starters in defensive end Owamagbe Odighizuwa and free safety Mykkele Thompson.
I am going to lean towards the positive interpretation for this draft. If you told me before the draft that the Giants would come out with Flowers, Collins, and Odighizuwa, I would have said you were crazy. Even some of the most critical NYG fans were giving New York an A after the first two days of the draft. Day 3 left a bad taste with many, but regardless of how you feel about that day, it should not erase the fact that the Giants drafted three players who should have both an immediate and a long-term impact on the franchise.
Before we get into the pros and cons of the Giants first three players, lets take a higher-level look at what these three players bring to the table: TOUGHNESS. Whether NYG fans want to admit it or not, the New York Giants since 2011 have not been a very tough or physical team. This is best demonstrated by their shoddy ability to run the ball and stop the run. But really, the issue has been even deeper than that. This is a team that has folded in some games after it got punched in the mouth. Ereck Flowers, Landon Collins, and Owamagbe Odighizuwa wont put up with that shit. This team just got a lot tougher on both sides of the football. New York Giants are supposed to be tough. End of story.
OT Ereck Flowers, 66, 329 pounds, 5.35, University of Miami
To be blunt, the team had to come out of this draft with a rookie starter on the offensive line. Thats why it was almost guaranteed that the Giants were going to draft Brandon Scherff, Ereck Flowers, Andrus Peat, or Lael Collins (pre-off-the-field issue). The Giants were clearly targeting Scherff, but were not surprised to see him drafted before they picked. Unless WR Amari Cooper somehow landed in their lap, it was going to be Scherff or Flowers. Now the big question here is were the Giants forced to reach for Flowers because their desperate need on the offensive line? Many who liked Flowers did not consider him a top 10 pick. Top 20 or 30, but not top 10. These people suggest that the Giants may have been better off drafting RB Todd Gurley, DT Danny Shelton, or WR Devante Parker. A few made a case for CB Trae Waynes. But all four of those players had their warts too: Gurley the ACL, Shelton being one dimensional, Parkers mental make-up, and the grabiness of Waynes in coverage.
For weeks leading up to the draft, I thought that unless wideouts Amari Cooper or Kevin White fell to the Giants, from a value-need perspective, the pick was obviously going to be an offensive lineman. Scherff, Flowers, Peat, and Collins were all widely regarded as being worthy first round draft picks. All signs pointed to one of these four. The question really become, which one? The Redskins took Scherff out of the equation. Tragic circumstances took Collins out of the equation. So it came down to Flowers versus Peat. Each has their advocates. Peat is the smoother, more technically-sound left tackle; Flowers the meaner, more physical one. Most assume Peat will be an NFL left tackle; Flowers may be limited to right tackle (though the Giants dont share this view). If I were making the pick, it would have been a coin flip between Peat and Flowers. Im just glad the Giants got one of them. As I said, they needed to come out of this draft with an immediate starter on the offensive line. And they were fortunate that in this case, the value seemed to match up with the need. My only reservation? I do wonder if they missed out on a special player in Gurley. That said, this draft was simply too important for the Giants to screw up. They could not afford to take the risk on Gurleys knee. The responsible pick was the offensive lineman.
Ereck Flowers brings size, strength, toughness, and nastiness to an offensive line that needed all four of those attributes. He looks born to play right tackle in the NFL and the combination of Flowers and Geoff Schwartz will give the Giants almost 700 pounds of beef on the right side of the line. Flowers biggest negative technique is correctable. You cant teach size, athletic ability, or toughness. Moreover, if the Giants are right and Flowers can eventually be a franchise left tackle, then there is no arguing against this pick. But it will be interesting to track the careers of Flowers versus Peat.
I guess Reese liked Flowers just as much as most others when the pick was made? BBI Draft Review 2015... but yeah, let's shit on the guy for making a pick that most liked at the time... - ( New Window )
I can honestly say I was against then and still am. He was never going to be a good LT. I remember being in like at Dicks buying some stuff for my daughter after her soccer game earlier (as we were seeing a movie shortly after and she needed a change of shirt) and when the selection came up I was so disappointed.
I have no reason to doubt your word... but back then you were in a very small minority with that feeling.
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Giants coach Pat Shurmur acknowledges the absence of Ereck Flowers from minicamp: Hes not here, so theres not really much to say.
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He appeared to have performed better the second half of the season, so theres that, despite the problem during the end of the year.
New regime. If theyre ok with moving on from him, then fine. I still feel theres usefulness to his game. Its his last contract year. I wouldnt give him away
He actually had a really good 2nd half. I remember reading he went like 8 straight games without allowing a sack, maybe more.
I know the majority won't agree with your opinion but I do somewhat. The deal breaker for me would be attitude. Is he skipping these workouts as an FU for replacing him at LT. If so the only choice may be to dump him rather than have a disgruntled player.
Other GM: Done, but only if you remove Flowers from the deal...
This talk of 7th round or release him is stupid.
NFL teams go to these college games. They break down tape. They interview these players and take them to dinner and meet their coaches, BFF's, teammates, and their mommas. They do everything they can to analyze physical skills, maturity, intelligence, etc etc.
It doesn't matter at all what we think about their draft decisions at the time they are made because we don't have the resources and knowledge to accurately grade them. Sure, everyone has an opinion - but they are more or less based off of second-hand information and the hope that everything will work out.
The Giants are in the business of entertainment. And if that entertainment doesn't mean a certain standard, they have every right to be criticized and judged for their mistakes - as much as they deserve to be praised for their sucesses. The only thing fans care about are results. That is part of the job.
NFL teams go to these college games. They break down tape. They interview these players and take them to dinner and meet their coaches, BFF's, teammates, and their mommas. They do everything they can to analyze physical skills, maturity, intelligence, etc etc.
It doesn't matter at all what we think about their draft decisions at the time they are made because we don't have the resources and knowledge to accurately grade them. Sure, everyone has an opinion - but they are more or less based off of second-hand information and the hope that everything will work out.
The Giants are in the business of entertainment. And if that entertainment doesn't mean a certain standard, they have every right to be criticized and judged for their mistakes - as much as they deserve to be praised for their sucesses. The only thing fans care about are results. That is part of the job.
Well stated!
Now... show me where he's been praised for his successes.
*insert Jeopardy tune here*
This talk of 7th round or release him is stupid.
Getting a 2nd or 3rd for this guy is hard to envision.
My best guess is that some team might be sweet-talked into surrendering a late 5th as the final piece in a much larger deal.
But a 2nd or 3rd? Wow... that would be great!
This talk of 7th round or release him is stupid.
Then you're not trading him because no one in the NFL is giving you a third or second for this guy.
And he's only signed for this year.....best you'd get is a 6 or 7 IMO, if that..........
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Giants have the rights to him. He was their starting left tackle for 3 years and while he was not great...he has value. He is 23 years old. I don't trade him for less that a third round pick, maybe a second.
This talk of 7th round or release him is stupid.
Then you're not trading him because no one in the NFL is giving you a third or second for this guy.
And he's only signed for this year.....best you'd get is a 6 or 7 IMO, if that..........
You may get a conditional mid-round pick depending upon on much he plays for the team he's traded to.
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Had we the same resources that NFL teams do to these college prospects, you could use the benefit of hindsight as some reason why we shouldn't be so hard on poor Jerry. But all most of us have are the games we watch on TV, and whatever we're fed from the media with scouting reports and such.
NFL teams go to these college games. They break down tape. They interview these players and take them to dinner and meet their coaches, BFF's, teammates, and their mommas. They do everything they can to analyze physical skills, maturity, intelligence, etc etc.
It doesn't matter at all what we think about their draft decisions at the time they are made because we don't have the resources and knowledge to accurately grade them. Sure, everyone has an opinion - but they are more or less based off of second-hand information and the hope that everything will work out.
The Giants are in the business of entertainment. And if that entertainment doesn't mean a certain standard, they have every right to be criticized and judged for their mistakes - as much as they deserve to be praised for their sucesses. The only thing fans care about are results. That is part of the job.
Well stated!
Now... show me where he's been praised for his successes.
*insert Jeopardy tune here*
He drafted some good players and signed some good free agents. But overall it was a mixed bag. I'm not sure what more you're looking for. Its just the truth. Nicks, Manningham, JPP, Steve Smith, Beckham - I'm sure there are more. Good draft picks. We can praise him for those successes all day, but he's also going to get slammed for failing to build his roster through the draft (which is more important anyway.) I'm not sure what more you expect. He just wasn't that good. The results speak for themselves.
NFL teams go to these college games. They break down tape. They interview these players and take them to dinner and meet their coaches, BFF's, teammates, and their mommas. They do everything they can to analyze physical skills, maturity, intelligence, etc etc.
It doesn't matter at all what we think about their draft decisions at the time they are made because we don't have the resources and knowledge to accurately grade them. Sure, everyone has an opinion - but they are more or less based off of second-hand information and the hope that everything will work out.
The Giants are in the business of entertainment. And if that entertainment doesn't mean a certain standard, they have every right to be criticized and judged for their mistakes - as much as they deserve to be praised for their sucesses. The only thing fans care about are results. That is part of the job.
You can have this take and also realize that nobody anywhere in the league is immune to draft mistakes. If Reese was the only guy to swing and miss at draft picks, by all means, have a field day. That isn't the case. Name a GM you consider excellent, and there is plenty of failure on his draft report card.
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a disaster if they have to dump Flowers.
Its really hard to fathom that Reese is a 2x SB GM.
He is in name only. Accorsi put together the bulk of the 2007 team, and a lot of those guys were on the 2011 team as well. Yes, Reese was part of the organization when Accorsi was there, but you can really see a sharp decline in the quality of overall drafts as soon as he took the GM chair. He hit on some picks here or there, particularly in rounds 1 and 2, but was pretty awful for the most part in rounds 3-7.
In comment 13927975 Russ in Queens, NYC said:
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still be a valuable back-up and still might develop, albeit in an ORT role. He is allowed to pass on VOLUNTARY stuff and shouldnt be ostracized for it, otherwise have the NFLPA agree to remove the voluntary from their agreements.
He appeared to have performed better the second half of the season, so theres that, despite the problem during the end of the year.
New regime. If theyre ok with moving on from him, then fine. I still feel theres usefulness to his game. Its his last contract year. I wouldnt give him away
^^^ This. I'm all for giving him a shot at RG.
He can be a starter, and has improved, but I don't see a team looking at him as anything more than a gamble. Just like a 6th or 7th rounder. I don't see many looking at the situation and saying to themselves, "yeah, I can fix him".
Seriously? Barry Cofield (2006 round 4). Justin Tuck (2005 round 3). Brandon Jacobs (2005, round 4). Reggie Torbor (2004, round 4). Fibrillation Wilson (2004, round 5). David Diehl (2003, round 5). David Tyree (2003, round 6). Its not about superstars, its that Accorsi was able to find key contributors in mid and late rounds. Reese rarely found anyone beyond round 2, which is why we are always an injury or two away from sucking every year because we have no depth. Look at the cash he laid out for special teams guys the last few years. Those should be mid and late round draft picks.
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In comment 13928324 Brown Recluse said:
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Had we the same resources that NFL teams do to these college prospects, you could use the benefit of hindsight as some reason why we shouldn't be so hard on poor Jerry. But all most of us have are the games we watch on TV, and whatever we're fed from the media with scouting reports and such.
NFL teams go to these college games. They break down tape. They interview these players and take them to dinner and meet their coaches, BFF's, teammates, and their mommas. They do everything they can to analyze physical skills, maturity, intelligence, etc etc.
It doesn't matter at all what we think about their draft decisions at the time they are made because we don't have the resources and knowledge to accurately grade them. Sure, everyone has an opinion - but they are more or less based off of second-hand information and the hope that everything will work out.
The Giants are in the business of entertainment. And if that entertainment doesn't mean a certain standard, they have every right to be criticized and judged for their mistakes - as much as they deserve to be praised for their sucesses. The only thing fans care about are results. That is part of the job.
Well stated!
Now... show me where he's been praised for his successes.
*insert Jeopardy tune here*
He drafted some good players and signed some good free agents. But overall it was a mixed bag. I'm not sure what more you're looking for. Its just the truth. Nicks, Manningham, JPP, Steve Smith, Beckham - I'm sure there are more. Good draft picks. We can praise him for those successes all day, but he's also going to get slammed for failing to build his roster through the draft (which is more important anyway.) I'm not sure what more you expect. He just wasn't that good. The results speak for themselves.
He was good enough to play a major role in bringing two Super Bowl championships here... which is a lot more than what, 90% of the NFL GMs currently employed can say?
In case you're still not sure what I'm looking for? One word... balance.
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We weren't exactly rolling out waves of young talent before then.
Seriously? Barry Cofield (2006 round 4). Justin Tuck (2005 round 3). Brandon Jacobs (2005, round 4). Reggie Torbor (2004, round 4). Fibrillation Wilson (2004, round 5). David Diehl (2003, round 5). David Tyree (2003, round 6). Its not about superstars, its that Accorsi was able to find key contributors in mid and late rounds. Reese rarely found anyone beyond round 2, which is why we are always an injury or two away from sucking every year because we have no depth. Look at the cash he laid out for special teams guys the last few years. Those should be mid and late round draft picks.
Gibril Wilson, lol, stupid auto correct.
Still not sure what I'm looking for?
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We have no idea what we will get from the draft, and if you draft someone, that means nothing until you see them actually play.....
You try Flowers at RT/G, and if you have something better, then you dangle him out there.....
This OL is a shambles, with only two positions locked in thus far.....if Jerry is considered the third, good grief....
This is a contract year for Flowers, and he should realize that......he won't be back with the Giants, but he wants that future contract with someone else....to think otherwise, would be stupid in throwing away millions on a future contract....
When you look at how the whole line played last year, why was Solari given a pass? He made absolutely no attempt to change Flower's technique....he is supposedly, a big strong guy.....yet I never saw a play where he attacked anyone in pass protection....he was constantly backing up right at the snap....Ever watch JPP when he was neutralized? Hit right at the line and he had no momentum to do anything....never saw Flowers attempt that move.....never saw any attempt to change his technique.....not saying Solari is the reason for Flower's failure, but it sure looks like he was a part of it, along with the failure of the rest of the line.....to see those bozo's on the right side of the line not be able to handle a simple stunt week after week, I would have benched Solari....
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Had we the same resources that NFL teams do to these college prospects, you could use the benefit of hindsight as some reason why we shouldn't be so hard on poor Jerry. But all most of us have are the games we watch on TV, and whatever we're fed from the media with scouting reports and such.
NFL teams go to these college games. They break down tape. They interview these players and take them to dinner and meet their coaches, BFF's, teammates, and their mommas. They do everything they can to analyze physical skills, maturity, intelligence, etc etc.
It doesn't matter at all what we think about their draft decisions at the time they are made because we don't have the resources and knowledge to accurately grade them. Sure, everyone has an opinion - but they are more or less based off of second-hand information and the hope that everything will work out.
The Giants are in the business of entertainment. And if that entertainment doesn't mean a certain standard, they have every right to be criticized and judged for their mistakes - as much as they deserve to be praised for their sucesses. The only thing fans care about are results. That is part of the job.
You can have this take and also realize that nobody anywhere in the league is immune to draft mistakes. If Reese was the only guy to swing and miss at draft picks, by all means, have a field day. That isn't the case. Name a GM you consider excellent, and there is plenty of failure on his draft report card.
No one said anything about a GM having to be perfect or infallible to mistakes. Completely off topic.
Gilbride and Coughlin were the first two scapegoats, and then Reese finally got the ax. Reese always had a knack for picking WRs and was pretty good at the defensive line aside from Marvin Austin. But man, he couldnt draft an offensive lineman to save his ass. And it wasnt for lack of effort. Pugh, Richburg, Flowers, thats some serious draft capital. The decline of the offensive line destroyed Gilbrides offense, that scheme relied heavily on being able to run and long developing pass plays. The Coughlin situation was just unfortunate, I felt like everyone knew it was Reese, yet he got a pass.
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Matt Lombardo
Verified account @MattLombardoNFL
12s13 seconds ago
Shurmur: Ereck Flowers isnt here. Theres not much to say. Its voluntary, Im of the feeling its very necessary. #Giants
I had begun to believe that the Giants front office was requesting that Flowers stay away as it was likely that he would be traded. Shurmur would not be saying this if this was in fact the case...
So it is indeed what we cynically suspected - it is Flowers being Flowers. We simply have to find a willing trade partner asap...
The trouble is that the Giants have had little success with picks after the 2nd round, and recently neither of them. Probably a 4th rounder at best.
At this point, I don't see the benefit of moving Flowers for a 6th or 5th round pick. Those players are less likely to pan out than Flowers is to turn it around. Rather just give Flowers one final shot.
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finally rid us of the dreaded Flaherty? And weren't those people right! Look at the shit job Flaherty did in JAX last year ;-).
Thoguht Flaherty was pretty well respected on the board. He'd been an O-line coach for a while, he just had garbage to work with.
At this point, I don't see the benefit of moving Flowers for a 6th or 5th round pick. Those players are less likely to pan out than Flowers is to turn it around. Rather just give Flowers one final shot.
There were alot of people here who couldn't wait to dump Flaherty, and were singing when Solari got hired. They know who they are.
I agree from a perceived value perspective, but it seems like Flowers has checked out so he is quickly becoming a worthless asset. I would take anything for him at this point, Im amazed they think they can trade him.
What 5-year period are you referring to with "no hits"?
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In comment 13928495 Victor in CT said:
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finally rid us of the dreaded Flaherty? And weren't those people right! Look at the shit job Flaherty did in JAX last year ;-).
Thoguht Flaherty was pretty well respected on the board. He'd been an O-line coach for a while, he just had garbage to work with.
At this point, I don't see the benefit of moving Flowers for a 6th or 5th round pick. Those players are less likely to pan out than Flowers is to turn it around. Rather just give Flowers one final shot.
There were alot of people here who couldn't wait to dump Flaherty, and were singing when Solari got hired. They know who they are.
He had a track record of successfully putting out quality offensive lines just like Flaherty did. What's the point of casting the guy as a hack?
Likeo OBJ (had no concern about his height in WCO) and JPP.
Please consult me on your next first round pick Mara.
OK I admit I wanted us to trade up to take Warmack or Fluke XD
I also want to see Flowers somewhere other than LT and see if that changes anything. I don't see how a 5th round pick is worth not finding out if our former #9 overall OL can contribute in some capacity to this new regime's plan.
I understand, the thing about Flowers for me was that he was never going to be a LT. He just always looked awkward to me. I really was not happy with the choice. Just felt he was a round peg square hole choice.
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We weren't exactly rolling out waves of young talent before then.
Seriously? Barry Cofield (2006 round 4). Justin Tuck (2005 round 3). Brandon Jacobs (2005, round 4). Reggie Torbor (2004, round 4). Fibrillation Wilson (2004, round 5). David Diehl (2003, round 5). David Tyree (2003, round 6). Its not about superstars, its that Accorsi was able to find key contributors in mid and late rounds. Reese rarely found anyone beyond round 2, which is why we are always an injury or two away from sucking every year because we have no depth. Look at the cash he laid out for special teams guys the last few years. Those should be mid and late round draft picks.
Ron Dayne? Will Allen? Tim Carter? William Joseph?
That's three blown first round picks and a blown second round pick in back to back to back years.
If you could somehow combine Reese's ability to draft in rounds 1 and 2 with accorsi's ability to draft after round 3, you'd have the GM of your dreams. Credit accorsi with being able to draft guys that stay in the league at the lower levels, but his record in rounds 1 and 2 is what?
There's plenty to get on Accorsi about, and it would be a mischaracterization to suggest the Giants had some talent pipeline that reese came along and ruined.
Ehh...we can and will recover. Kennard was a good or even very good draft pick and he left as a FA. Flowers could have kicked butt and then we'd have given him Solder's contract.
Don't get too melodramatic. Move on. Shit, some people want to move Beckham who is fantastic. Flowers didn't work out here but at least he won't struggle under a bigger and more costly second contract.
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a disaster if they have to dump Flowers.
Its really hard to fathom that Reese is a 2x SB GM.
Is it really? George Young drafted Cedric Jones, Derek Brown, Dave Brown, Wheatley and other failures. He won 2 bowls. Didn't Ozzie Newsom step down or is rumored to be stepping down while the Ravens have languished in mediocrity the last 3-4-5 years?
No one wants to hear it...but GMs need to get lucky. The best thing they can do is hire the brilliant HC and pray their players stay healthy. Reese's biggest problem here was McAdoo was a disaster and Eli didn't cover up the warts. Maybe Reese is a football idiot, but I prefer to think he was a good or even very good scout/GM that got a little unlucky and desperate towards the end.
If guys like Manninghmam, Smith, Burress, Boss, Phillips, Thomas, Nicks, Chad Jones, JPP, Prince, Wilson, Pugh, Richburg (yes Richburg) didn't spend more time in the trainers room after flashing good to great play in years 1-2-3 Reese would have had a better go at things here. Not to mention he was saddled with the shittiest HC hire in NYG history. And that was a Mara hire.
Everyone here, ask yourself how many GMs have impeccable long term records NOT named Belichick? How many?
Yep. Flowers has only been working his way down the ladder of success with the high point being his draft day.
I would like to give Eli Apple a new lease on life though and see how he performs (including attitude) this summer and early in season before making him the next dismissal...
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In comment 13927557 Eric from BBI said:
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a disaster if they have to dump Flowers.
Its really hard to fathom that Reese is a 2x SB GM.
Is it really? George Young drafted Cedric Jones, Derek Brown, Dave Brown, Wheatley and other failures. He won 2 bowls. Didn't Ozzie Newsom step down or is rumored to be stepping down while the Ravens have languished in mediocrity the last 3-4-5 years?
No one wants to hear it...but GMs need to get lucky. The best thing they can do is hire the brilliant HC and pray their players stay healthy. Reese's biggest problem here was McAdoo was a disaster and Eli didn't cover up the warts. Maybe Reese is a football idiot, but I prefer to think he was a good or even very good scout/GM that got a little unlucky and desperate towards the end.
If guys like Manninghmam, Smith, Burress, Boss, Phillips, Thomas, Nicks, Chad Jones, JPP, Prince, Wilson, Pugh, Richburg (yes Richburg) didn't spend more time in the trainers room after flashing good to great play in years 1-2-3 Reese would have had a better go at things here. Not to mention he was saddled with the shittiest HC hire in NYG history. And that was a Mara hire.
Everyone here, ask yourself how many GMs have impeccable long term records NOT named Belichick? How many?
unlucky for 7 years?
Call me crazy but I think the OL was setup to fail last year. Actually, i'd bet my life on that theory.
THE OL will be better in 2018. The offense will be better.
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In comment 13927564 dep026 said:
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In comment 13927557 Eric from BBI said:
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a disaster if they have to dump Flowers.
Its really hard to fathom that Reese is a 2x SB GM.
Is it really? George Young drafted Cedric Jones, Derek Brown, Dave Brown, Wheatley and other failures. He won 2 bowls. Didn't Ozzie Newsom step down or is rumored to be stepping down while the Ravens have languished in mediocrity the last 3-4-5 years?
No one wants to hear it...but GMs need to get lucky. The best thing they can do is hire the brilliant HC and pray their players stay healthy. Reese's biggest problem here was McAdoo was a disaster and Eli didn't cover up the warts. Maybe Reese is a football idiot, but I prefer to think he was a good or even very good scout/GM that got a little unlucky and desperate towards the end.
If guys like Manninghmam, Smith, Burress, Boss, Phillips, Thomas, Nicks, Chad Jones, JPP, Prince, Wilson, Pugh, Richburg (yes Richburg) didn't spend more time in the trainers room after flashing good to great play in years 1-2-3 Reese would have had a better go at things here. Not to mention he was saddled with the shittiest HC hire in NYG history. And that was a Mara hire.
Everyone here, ask yourself how many GMs have impeccable long term records NOT named Belichick? How many?
unlucky for 7 years?
I can't take that seriously. Argue with someone else.