1) He get's a ton of yards as return specialist. If we draft him at 2 and make him one of the highest paid RBs in the league, I can't see them putting him back there to return kicks, unless it's like the last play of the game, but the injury risk is just to high.
2) If we make him one of the highest paid RBs in the league from day 1, does anyone think we will actually be able to resign him to a second contract. Second contracts are where the NFL players make their big bucks, with the rookie wage scale.
3) I can't get over the Rutgers game. He helped open up the offense, but even against a team loading the box, if someone was as special as they rate him, I would think he would be able to muster up more then just 30 something yards in the run game and pass game. He had a ton of special teams yards, but again, I don't see much special teams play in his future.
2). Cross that bridge when we get there. We won't even know what OBJ is gonna be doing. Worry about it then.
3). Penn State had absolutely no other weapons on offense. Defenses stacked the box. You can't outrun or run through 8 guys. If NFL defenses want to stack the box against Barkley well OBJ, Engram and Sheppard are gonna have some fun.
He balances out the offense in ways we couldn't dream with anyone else. We can line him up out wide and in different formations. Defenses won't be able to target OBJ, or Engram or Barkley. Blitzing is gonna be risky not to mention, Barkley is a 3 down back since he can catch AND pass protect which a lot of RB's don't do. He's more than just a runner. Thats what makes him so valuable. He is closer to Marshall Faulk.
Putting somebody back there without experience is dangerous, they don't know how to protect themselves.
He balances out the offense in ways we couldn't dream with anyone else. We can line him up out wide and in different formations. Defenses won't be able to target OBJ, or Engram or Barkley. Blitzing is gonna be risky not to mention, Barkley is a 3 down back since he can catch AND pass protect which a lot of RB's don't do. He's more than just a runner. Thats what makes him so valuable. He is closer to Marshall Faulk.
Weren’t we saying the exact same thing when we picked up Shane Vereen. I understand Barkley is a different build, so he can pick up some tougher yards, but the opening up the offense is what we all hoped Vereen would do.
3. I'm not going to pass on him because of one not so great college game...every player in the draft has had at least one game they wouldn't want on their highlight reel...
3. I'm not going to pass on him because of one not so great college game...every player in the draft has had at least one game they wouldn't want on their highlight reel...
The RB average is so low that yes he would be one of the highest paid RB's in the league in 2018. He'd be 5th between McKinnon and Fournette on this list.
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See Jason Sehorn as example A
Hasn't that been killing us for years? Drafting guys who dont re-sign with us (mostly because they stink) and not getting any traction to build a roster? Don't get me wrong, unless Barkley turns out to be Tomlinson, we should not re-sign him after his first contract is up based on the position history. Not a fan of drafting a runner in the first.
Uh . . . because it increases the chances that he could get hurt.
I see this referenced over and over by guys that don't like Barkley, but I am not sure what the conclusion is. If a college players has a bad game against an inferior opponent it is a red flag?
Clearly he isn't going to return kicks, just like OBJ doesn't return punts normally. I don't think that is a "concern" about OBJ.
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would have used Beckham more in that role.
See Jason Sehorn as example A
That's ridiculous. Anybody can get hurt anywhere, at anytime, in any role. Did Beckham get hurt returning kicks? I don't think so. JFC, L-FUCKING-T himself played special teams.
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would have used Beckham more in that role.
See Jason Sehorn as example A
Sehorn was a freak injury and he was not a returner. Odell, A Brown and Barkley are experienced returners. They know how to avoid getting smashed.
I see this referenced over and over by guys that don't like Barkley, but I am not sure what the conclusion is. If a college players has a bad game against an inferior opponent it is a red flag?
Clearly he isn't going to return kicks, just like OBJ doesn't return punts normally. I don't think that is a "concern" about OBJ.
If it had happened against Ohio State or one of the other superior BIG 10 teams, I would give him a pass, but Rutgers just bothers me. Its a way inferior team, and he couldn't get more than 30 yrds?
Now if everyone wasn't all over him being a for sure Hall of Famer right off the bat, I could easily pass over this.
Now to be far he made an impact as a return specialist in most of his games were he struggled rushing, but again, he won't do much if any of that in the NFL, for fear of major injury.
They should wrap him in bubble wrap and never let him leave the sideline! Don't you realize how dramatically that cuts the chance of injury?
I'm sorry, but this thought makes no sense to me. You are paying finance prices to lease a car. Even if it's a Caddy, you are still paying a massive price to lease it.
The #2 pick is a huge investment and a huge value. You dont spend it expecting to take a kid that may have a 5 year shelf life with your team.
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If he leaves, he leaves. 5 years of (expected) productivity from the RB position would be fine with me, even if drafted #2 overall..
I'm sorry, but this thought makes no sense to me. You are paying finance prices to lease a car. Even if it's a Caddy, you are still paying a massive price to lease it.
The #2 pick is a huge investment and a huge value. You dont spend it expecting to take a kid that may have a 5 year shelf life with your team.
Since when does the Caddy dealer renegotiate your lease or purchase price 5 years down the road?
Would you suggest that all players in the draft be judged on their worst game? Who would you draft then? Every QB in this draft has rolled a stinker out there in his career. Would taking any of them at 2 concern you because of it?
Every player has statistically bad games in their career. It happens. I guess I don't understand why it bothers you about Barkley, but nobody else.
Would you suggest that all players in the draft be judged on their worst game? Who would you draft then? Every QB in this draft has rolled a stinker out there in his career. Would taking any of them at 2 concern you because of it?
Every player has statistically bad games in their career. It happens. I guess I don't understand why it bothers you about Barkley, but nobody else.
He has been labeled a can't miss prospect, and one of the best graded overall players in a long time. So when you put up a stinker against a way inferior team, it sticks out to me and yes as many others have pointed out, he did help the offense open up in other ways.
Putting somebody back there without experience is dangerous, they don't know how to protect themselves.
You can't put your starting RB on Kickoffs... David Wilson was never THE guy for us when he was returning kicks.
Based on nothing but that game, are you "concerned" that Rosen just isn't worth a high pick?
I see this referenced over and over by guys that don't like Barkley, but I am not sure what the conclusion is. If a college players has a bad game against an inferior opponent it is a red flag?
Clearly he isn't going to return kicks, just like OBJ doesn't return punts normally. I don't think that is a "concern" about OBJ.
I have read a number of other analysis that also talk about a few games that were just plain average. It does worry me that he is way overrated, especially since their are a number of RB's who can come in and produce in the NFL.
Based on nothing but that game, are you "concerned" that Rosen just isn't worth a high pick?
Look if he wasn't dubbed the next best thing since sliced bread, by pretty much every analysis I would chalk this up to as just a bad game.
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Suggests to you? That he isn't very good? That if teams focus on him they can take him out of the game? That he doesn't compete hard enough? How do you explain most of the rest of his career?
I see this referenced over and over by guys that don't like Barkley, but I am not sure what the conclusion is. If a college players has a bad game against an inferior opponent it is a red flag?
Clearly he isn't going to return kicks, just like OBJ doesn't return punts normally. I don't think that is a "concern" about OBJ.
I have read a number of other analysis that also talk about a few games that were just plain average. It does worry me that he is way overrated, especially since their are a number of RB's who can come in and produce in the NFL.
Yup and those average games, he made an impact in special teams, and IMHO he will not be doing much of that in the NFL.
I think there are valid reasons to not want Barkley at the top of the draft. I am just trying to understand this one (he had a bad game) as it seems a little arbitrary to me.
Actually, quite a few are.
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gets lots of return yards, no?
Putting somebody back there without experience is dangerous, they don't know how to protect themselves.
You can't put your starting RB on Kickoffs... David Wilson was never THE guy for us when he was returning kicks.
David Wilson was different. He was picked 32 not 2, and he was not one of the highest paid players at his position. He got on the field as a returner because he wasn't going to carry the load on offense in his first season.
If you don't like the guy at 2, that's a fair opinion. Your argument here just comes across as finding reasons to support an opinion you already have.
McAdoo didnt have a clue ( hey that rhymes)
If they draft Barkley they will have a plan of how to use him in multiple formations. It will be very challenging to defend the Giants on all three levels of the field with Beckham, Engram and Barkley.. They will be able to attack defenses very well I would think.
If a player's performance in a complete blow out of a game keeps you from drafting him, so be it but show me a player who shows up every game and gets monster stats every game, without fail. No letdowns, no plays off, no games off, even when the outcome has been decided in the 1st quarter and in the 4th, they are going full steam.
Find someone, anyone. You can't.
If you can't forgive Barkley's performance in a total blowout of a game than something is wrong.
If a player's performance in a complete blow out of a game keeps you from drafting him, so be it but show me a player who shows up every game and gets monster stats every game, without fail. No letdowns, no plays off, no games off, even when the outcome has been decided in the 1st quarter and in the 4th, they are going full steam.
Find someone, anyone. You can't.
If you can't forgive Barkley's performance in a total blowout of a game than something is wrong.
Exactly - the OP is not helping his argument by omitting several facts about that game. First, Penn St. easily won the game and Barkley had two touchdowns. Second, Barkley still had several plays in that game that make you just go "wow".. his ability to quickly get north and south, ability to both break/avoid tackles and outrun DBs, and his unbelievable athleticism in hurdling defenders at the goal line. And third, knowing they had no chance to beat Penn St, Rutgers was clearly playing that game to stop Barkley and his quest for the Heisman. You can see that in the local sports press leading up to the game...
Every major scout has Barkley miles ahead of any other prospect in this draft for a reason... The Browns would be moronic not to take him with the first pick.
this is the exact reason not to take a RB. five years vs 15. HARD PASS.
Trade down, accumulate.
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In comment 13927625 section125 said:
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gets lots of return yards, no?
Putting somebody back there without experience is dangerous, they don't know how to protect themselves.
You can't put your starting RB on Kickoffs... David Wilson was never THE guy for us when he was returning kicks.
David Wilson was different. He was picked 32 not 2, and he was not one of the highest paid players at his position. He got on the field as a returner because he wasn't going to carry the load on offense in his first season.
Again, rookie salary scale. No rookie at any position will be highest/among highest paid.
Trade down, accumulate.
Why would he be getting a lot of love here because he is a Penn State guy? I may have missed that there were a ton of PSU alum on this board. Also, he is getting a lot of love everywhere, from all sorts of fans and analysts. If you think he is terrible overrated after watching him, then you are welcome to that opinion, but you are in the small minority who think that.
they rarely made guys whiff . Barkley changes that .
Only guy with legit speed is OBJ Speed kills !
Top offenses today are built on creating and exploiting matchups that are favorable. The more playmakers you have the more matchups you can create and win with.
SB will create a ton of mismatches. It may be true that defenses will scheme to take him out of games, but that will create mismatches on the field in other places.
Selecting SB will improve this offense. Period.
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Arizona this year. No TDs and 3 picks, 219 yards passing. Arizona's defense could charitably be described as abysmal, even by PAC 12 standards. He is supposed to be the best pure passer coming out this year, and he put up those numbers against a terrible defense in a losing effort.
Based on nothing but that game, are you "concerned" that Rosen just isn't worth a high pick?
Look if he wasn't dubbed the next best thing since sliced bread, by pretty much every analysis I would chalk this up to as just a bad game.
What would you say about 5 of the first 6 games Adrian Peterson had in 2005?
Top offenses today are built on creating and exploiting matchups that are favorable. The more playmakers you have the more matchups you can create and win with.
SB will create a ton of mismatches. It may be true that defenses will scheme to take him out of games, but that will create mismatches on the field in other places.
Selecting SB will improve this offense. Period.
This
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In comment 13927839 Mike from Ohio said:
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Arizona this year. No TDs and 3 picks, 219 yards passing. Arizona's defense could charitably be described as abysmal, even by PAC 12 standards. He is supposed to be the best pure passer coming out this year, and he put up those numbers against a terrible defense in a losing effort.
Based on nothing but that game, are you "concerned" that Rosen just isn't worth a high pick?
Look if he wasn't dubbed the next best thing since sliced bread, by pretty much every analysis I would chalk this up to as just a bad game.
What would you say about 5 of the first 6 games Adrian Peterson had in 2005?
His 2 worst games were against legit teams in 2005. Kansas and Texas were both good teams in that time frame. They have since fallen off the map.
He had some avg. games too, and I'm not ripping SB for his average games. Those happen.
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Defenses are faster and more sophisticated than they used to be. Offenses have less time to work on execution. Result is if you build an offense based on 100% execution defenses will make you pay.
Top offenses today are built on creating and exploiting matchups that are favorable. The more playmakers you have the more matchups you can create and win with.
SB will create a ton of mismatches. It may be true that defenses will scheme to take him out of games, but that will create mismatches on the field in other places.
Selecting SB will improve this offense. Period.
This
The real Good DCs can sometimes scheme to take a star out of the game. But when you have two elite playmakers it becomes invariably tougher to stop them both.
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In comment 13927837 jvm52106 said:
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In comment 13927625 section125 said:
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gets lots of return yards, no?
Putting somebody back there without experience is dangerous, they don't know how to protect themselves.
You can't put your starting RB on Kickoffs... David Wilson was never THE guy for us when he was returning kicks.
David Wilson was different. He was picked 32 not 2, and he was not one of the highest paid players at his position. He got on the field as a returner because he wasn't going to carry the load on offense in his first season.
Again, rookie salary scale. No rookie at any position will be highest/among highest paid.
The player drafter at #2 will get about 5.8 million year one...
Will average well over 8 million for years 2, 3, and 4.
All of it guaranteed.
If that player is Barkley, first year, he will have the 2nd highest guaranteed money. And somewhere between the 4 to 6th highest salary.
Starting the 2nd year, he would have the highest guaranteed money, and a top 3 possibly top 2 salary.
Hard to make the claim that that is rookie controlled...