At the risk of totally overthinking things, I do wonder why the Giants are being so tightlipped about who they want. it is possible that they really don't know yet who's top of their board, but that seems unlikely at this point. I can see why Cleveland is being fuzzy about the #1. In their perfect scenario, they would know #2 and #3 are qbs, so then they can take the best qb #1 and still get the best position player in the draft at #4. they know the jets are taking a qb, and by suggesting they they might take barkley #1, maybe they push a qb hungry team to try to move up to #2 now, predraft, and then they get exactly what they want.
but for the Giants, it seems like there's less benefit outside of trying to force the browns hand somehow. if the giants really want barkley, wouldn't it make the most sense to make cleveland think the opposite, that the giants really want a qb? that seems the one way you'd guarantee barkley will be there at pick #2, since there's no way the browns want to end up with their 3rd choice quarterback. and if you really liked a qb, you'd probably much more strongly hint the reverse. the browns aren't taking Chubb #1, so if that's who the giants really liked, what's the point of keeping that a secret? making it seem like you might take 1 of 6 different players when you're #2 doesn't get you much unless you really want to trade the pick. or am i missing something?
and what exactly is the upside to showing your hand? the downside risks are several different lower probability scenarios, but what's the upside? If there's no upside and there is some potential downside risk even if unlikely, it's smart to keep your intentions hidden.
You'd have to be pretty naive to believe that the Giants were targeting Apple all along and the Bears and Titans just happened to trade up for Conklin and Floyd at 8 and 9 when the Giants were picking 10.
Leonard Floyd and Jack Conklin seem to be players you've forgotten quickly.
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How exactly did Reese ever show his intentions? I don't ever remember anyone predicting the Giants picks, and if they did, it wasn't because Reese tipped his hand. He had a few bad picks, a couple we were unlucky with injuries, but the lengths people will go to squarely put the blame on our old GM, instead of just saying we had a shitty team, and shit happens.
Leonard Floyd and Jack Conklin seem to be players you've forgotten quickly.
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How exactly did Reese ever show his intentions? I don't ever remember anyone predicting the Giants picks, and if they did, it wasn't because Reese tipped his hand. He had a few bad picks, a couple we were unlucky with injuries, but the lengths people will go to squarely put the blame on our old GM, instead of just saying we had a shitty team, and shit happens.
Leonard Floyd and Jack Conklin seem to be players you've forgotten quickly.
I don't think it took a mental genius to figure out that the Giants needs aligned with the best players available at the time. That's just how the draft goes some years, you don't always get what you want. The only thing that could have changed that is if they traded up, which they made the decision not to, and you'd have a better point if you wanted to knock Reese for not doing that, but acting like he was the most predictable GM with which player he wanted? Complete bullshit.
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In comment 13928654 barens said:
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How exactly did Reese ever show his intentions? I don't ever remember anyone predicting the Giants picks, and if they did, it wasn't because Reese tipped his hand. He had a few bad picks, a couple we were unlucky with injuries, but the lengths people will go to squarely put the blame on our old GM, instead of just saying we had a shitty team, and shit happens.
Leonard Floyd and Jack Conklin seem to be players you've forgotten quickly.
I don't think it took a mental genius to figure out that the Giants needs aligned with the best players available at the time. That's just how the draft goes some years, you don't always get what you want. The only thing that could have changed that is if they traded up, which they made the decision not to, and you'd have a better point if you wanted to knock Reese for not doing that, but acting like he was the most predictable GM with which player he wanted? Complete bullshit.
It was very well-known before the draft even started or before we were ever on the clock that we had major interest in both players. It's not "bullshit" and not a coincidence that two teams leapfrogged us to get them. They knew we wanted them.
You've had your head in the sand on this.
Leonard Floyd especially was a name being repeated over and over again here and in general for the Giants. Our intent was very much telegraphed that year and most everyone knew it.
The bottom line, to me, is if they really wanted one of those players, they would have had to trade up, and who knows what options were on the table.
Let me ask you, did you know the Giants were going to draft Pugh? OBJ? Even Flowers? Or Engram? I sure didn’t.
They both leapfrogged us because everyone in the world knew those were our targets.
As far as other players - as a matter of fact, there were guys here who knew about both David Wilson AND Justin Pugh before we were on the clock.
Read JonC's posts regarding leaks this year. He's said several times that much, much less info is getting out now than in the past. The draft is in 2 days, we are picking 2nd overall, and not a single person outside of Giants Central seems to know exactly what their plan is.
Contrast that with 2 years ago where leading up to the draft, all you heard about was Leonard Floyd and to a slightly lesser degree, Jack Conklin coming from here. It was very clear who we wanted and both the Bears and Titans knew it.
Floyd with his 4.5 sacks in his junior year ahead of declaring for the draft was the best pass rusher in a draft with Joey Bosa? Floyd was a late riser but before the Giants interest he wasn't projected in the top 10 by most.
Fact.
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How exactly did Reese ever show his intentions? I don't ever remember anyone predicting the Giants picks, and if they did, it wasn't because Reese tipped his hand. He had a few bad picks, a couple we were unlucky with injuries, but the lengths people will go to squarely put the blame on our old GM, instead of just saying we had a shitty team, and shit happens.
Fact.
It's not a "fact" - people here have known our picks before they were made.
B in ALB knew we were taking Pugh before the draft even started. If he knew that, who else did?
My question to you, why do you want to know?
DG won't trade down. It's not a Giants type move.
Plus, I’d love to see this post where B called the pick. I’ve been here forever and never saw it. And I don’t wannw hear that he listed 2-3 players with caveats like a few others here love to do. Save it, ain’t buying it.
How do you hide it? Don’t scout the guy? Sneak the player in through Steve’s steakhouse backroads in carlstadt?
Ok fine Pugh was leaked. Only one. And it’s still bullshit.
Plus, I’d love to see this post where B called the pick. I’ve been here forever and never saw it. And I don’t wannw hear that he listed 2-3 players with caveats like a few others here love to do. Save it, ain’t buying it.
He didn't get lucky. He played football @ Syracuse and found out from a reputable source.
It wasn't a guess. He had concrete info.
Just like we were going to take Leonard Floyd.
Jerry Reese was not running a tight ship. Word got out. It happens. I don't know why some of you guys are so unwilling to believe this.
John Fox basically admitted that the Bears jumped us to take Floyd because they already knew we were going to.
We're also picking 2nd overall which makes the entire scenario different. It means there's only one team teams can trade with to get ahead of us - and Cleveland isn't giving up #1 overall. They know they need a QB and the only way they can ensure they get him is to take him there.
Waiting until 4 is too much of a risk. NYG can certainly go QB and it's almost a lock that NYJ will. So Cleveland risks 2 QB's going off the board before they're on the clock again and if they really like one of these QB's (... Darnold) more than the others, they'll probably lose him.
We got jumped for both of them.
Just like we were going to take Leonard Floyd.
Jerry Reese was not running a tight ship. Word got out. It happens. I don't know why some of you guys are so unwilling to believe this.
John Fox basically admitted that the Bears jumped us to take Floyd because they already knew we were going to.
People called Wilson, in veiled form no less, SECONDS before the pick. Maybe minutes.
Fox "knew" the Giants liked Floyd much like I knew the guy sitting across from me had pocket aces. Gut feeling based on smoke.
Giants will draft barkley and people will say it was telegraphed.
And again, how do you "hide" your intentions? How do allow leaks to happen? Are you telling me that Reese was walking around metlife telling everyone who would listen that he loved Conklin or Floyd? Or maybe people just connected the dots?
Why do you think Dave Gettleman has made such a point of making sure this doesn't happen? He's well-aware that it was happening in the past. It has been acknowledged.
Reese didn't have to stand on a building with a megaphone for people to find out which players we were truly coveting. It's very easy for information to leak. It's really not that complicated or hard to comprehend.
And people knew about Wilson earlier than "seconds" before he was picked. That was also something that has been widely-discussed around here.
There were leaks galore under Reese. It's impossible for any org to plug every leak at every layer from scouts up, especially with two big families and so many Maras involved in the foundation.
There were leaks galore under Reese. It's impossible for any org to plug every leak at every layer from scouts up, especially with two big families and so many Maras involved in the foundation.
Thank you.
Holy shit, I feel like I'm in bizarro world here. I thought this was all very well-known stuff around here. Apparently not.
There were leaks galore under Reese. It's impossible for any org to plug every leak at every layer from scouts up, especially with two big families and so many Maras involved in the foundation.
I'd also add that hitdog mentioned both Engram and Tomlinson on several occasions before the draft.
People are human, the draft build up is vital to the NFL game, everyone gets excited over the possibilities.
People seem to forget agents, players, owners and more are involved, and there is only so much you can do.
sigh. below is a clearer version of what i was trying to say with the post
why i think the giants want to trade out of the pick - ( New Window )
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and Conklin a top Tackle, it wasn’t a leap of faith to think the Giants wanted one of them. We also may not have wanted to give what it took to move up. I really don’t see what the issue is during that draft.
We got jumped for both of them.
We did?
I love the asshattery. I just don’t think it’s fair to single out Reese or prior regimes like some are. Like JonC said there’s a human element.