At the risk of totally overthinking things, I do wonder why the Giants are being so tightlipped about who they want. it is possible that they really don't know yet who's top of their board, but that seems unlikely at this point. I can see why Cleveland is being fuzzy about the #1. In their perfect scenario, they would know #2 and #3 are qbs, so then they can take the best qb #1 and still get the best position player in the draft at #4. they know the jets are taking a qb, and by suggesting they they might take barkley #1, maybe they push a qb hungry team to try to move up to #2 now, predraft, and then they get exactly what they want.
but for the Giants, it seems like there's less benefit outside of trying to force the browns hand somehow. if the giants really want barkley, wouldn't it make the most sense to make cleveland think the opposite, that the giants really want a qb? that seems the one way you'd guarantee barkley will be there at pick #2, since there's no way the browns want to end up with their 3rd choice quarterback. and if you really liked a qb, you'd probably much more strongly hint the reverse. the browns aren't taking Chubb #1, so if that's who the giants really liked, what's the point of keeping that a secret? making it seem like you might take 1 of 6 different players when you're #2 doesn't get you much unless you really want to trade the pick. or am i missing something?
My question to you, why do you want to know?
The Giants have nothing to gain by making their intentions known to other teams.
The more players they are tied to, the better. All it does is give them additional leverage in trade talks, if anything.
They are being so tight lipped, with the is exception if Barkley, so they can somehow acquire one of their top QB targets, in addition to as much draft capital as they can... a move down to 4, could get this done... their concern has to be the Jets taking Rosen.. if they believe it will go
Browns - Darnold
Browns (Trade) - Barkley
Jets - Mayfield (or Allen)
They could pull it off.... probably not worth the risk
the Giants are at #2. the browns aren't trading out of #1. no one's trading ahead of the giants to take their target. the only possibility is that cleveland takes whoever it is. my point was that if you really wanted to be so strategic about it - which is supposedly what the secretiveness is all about - you'd actually put out disinformation about who you wanted, not just pretend you liked everybody. like i said, maybe i'm overthinking it, but it does make me think they real end goal here is to trade out of the pick.
They are being so tight lipped, with the is exception if Barkley, so they can somehow acquire one of their top QB targets, in addition to as much draft capital as they can... a move down to 4, could get this done... their concern has to be the Jets taking Rosen.. if they believe it will go
Browns - Darnold
Browns (Trade) - Barkley
Jets - Mayfield (or Allen)
They could pull it off.... probably not worth the risk
I think it's Rosen first Darnold second. They have no reason to tip their hand. It is still possible someone like the bills can jump ahead and take their giy.
But
If the media reports are right- they are an open book
The media consensus is Barkley with an outside shot at Darnold if he falls and no other QB is being considered
IF thats true- and vast majority of BBI does think it is
what have the Giants kept secret?
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for what can happen when the entire league and media know your intentions.
the Giants are at #2. the browns aren't trading out of #1. no one's trading ahead of the giants to take their target. the only possibility is that cleveland takes whoever it is. my point was that if you really wanted to be so strategic about it - which is supposedly what the secretiveness is all about - you'd actually put out disinformation about who you wanted, not just pretend you liked everybody. like i said, maybe i'm overthinking it, but it does make me think they real end goal here is to trade out of the pick.
Just flip it around and ask yourself this question...
What do the Giants have to gain by being transparent about who they like and what their intentions are?
We've already seen a trade scenario with Cleveland where they could potentially swap #2/#4 with us and give us their 2nd rounders to do so. If they knew who we were going to take, it's possible they'd be less inclined to explore this. It's the uncertainty and worry that perhaps we could either take Barkley or the QB they want off the board before they pick again @ 4 - this trade would ensure that they get both.
Potential trades like that will pop up if our intentions are masked well enough. That's why you do it.
And
We all know Giants are drafting Barkley unless the slight chance that Darnold drops bevause they definately dont like The other 3 QBs.
Both of those statements cannot be true
I thought it was ludicrous, myself.....Giants had specific needs.....and teams drafting behind them, felt their guy would be drafted by the Giants, so they traded up.....simple explanation, but BBI said Reese asleep at the wheel, again.....
But isn't it advantageous to keep other teams guessing? But in this case, I seriously doubt anyone can come up with a package to get the #1 pick, ahead of the Giants......
DG doesn't have to do anything.....if Cleveland takes "our" guy, then he should be ready for it, either with his second choice or if another team has approached him about a trade down, based on Clevelands's first pick.....
and what exactly is the upside to showing your hand? the downside risks are several different lower probability scenarios, but what's the upside? If there's no upside and there is some potential downside risk even if unlikely, it's smart to keep your intentions hidden.
You'd have to be pretty naive to believe that the Giants were targeting Apple all along and the Bears and Titans just happened to trade up for Conklin and Floyd at 8 and 9 when the Giants were picking 10.
Leonard Floyd and Jack Conklin seem to be players you've forgotten quickly.
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How exactly did Reese ever show his intentions? I don't ever remember anyone predicting the Giants picks, and if they did, it wasn't because Reese tipped his hand. He had a few bad picks, a couple we were unlucky with injuries, but the lengths people will go to squarely put the blame on our old GM, instead of just saying we had a shitty team, and shit happens.
Leonard Floyd and Jack Conklin seem to be players you've forgotten quickly.
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How exactly did Reese ever show his intentions? I don't ever remember anyone predicting the Giants picks, and if they did, it wasn't because Reese tipped his hand. He had a few bad picks, a couple we were unlucky with injuries, but the lengths people will go to squarely put the blame on our old GM, instead of just saying we had a shitty team, and shit happens.
Leonard Floyd and Jack Conklin seem to be players you've forgotten quickly.
I don't think it took a mental genius to figure out that the Giants needs aligned with the best players available at the time. That's just how the draft goes some years, you don't always get what you want. The only thing that could have changed that is if they traded up, which they made the decision not to, and you'd have a better point if you wanted to knock Reese for not doing that, but acting like he was the most predictable GM with which player he wanted? Complete bullshit.
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In comment 13928654 barens said:
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How exactly did Reese ever show his intentions? I don't ever remember anyone predicting the Giants picks, and if they did, it wasn't because Reese tipped his hand. He had a few bad picks, a couple we were unlucky with injuries, but the lengths people will go to squarely put the blame on our old GM, instead of just saying we had a shitty team, and shit happens.
Leonard Floyd and Jack Conklin seem to be players you've forgotten quickly.
I don't think it took a mental genius to figure out that the Giants needs aligned with the best players available at the time. That's just how the draft goes some years, you don't always get what you want. The only thing that could have changed that is if they traded up, which they made the decision not to, and you'd have a better point if you wanted to knock Reese for not doing that, but acting like he was the most predictable GM with which player he wanted? Complete bullshit.
It was very well-known before the draft even started or before we were ever on the clock that we had major interest in both players. It's not "bullshit" and not a coincidence that two teams leapfrogged us to get them. They knew we wanted them.
You've had your head in the sand on this.
Leonard Floyd especially was a name being repeated over and over again here and in general for the Giants. Our intent was very much telegraphed that year and most everyone knew it.
The bottom line, to me, is if they really wanted one of those players, they would have had to trade up, and who knows what options were on the table.
Let me ask you, did you know the Giants were going to draft Pugh? OBJ? Even Flowers? Or Engram? I sure didn’t.
They both leapfrogged us because everyone in the world knew those were our targets.
As far as other players - as a matter of fact, there were guys here who knew about both David Wilson AND Justin Pugh before we were on the clock.
Read JonC's posts regarding leaks this year. He's said several times that much, much less info is getting out now than in the past. The draft is in 2 days, we are picking 2nd overall, and not a single person outside of Giants Central seems to know exactly what their plan is.
Contrast that with 2 years ago where leading up to the draft, all you heard about was Leonard Floyd and to a slightly lesser degree, Jack Conklin coming from here. It was very clear who we wanted and both the Bears and Titans knew it.
Floyd with his 4.5 sacks in his junior year ahead of declaring for the draft was the best pass rusher in a draft with Joey Bosa? Floyd was a late riser but before the Giants interest he wasn't projected in the top 10 by most.
Fact.
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How exactly did Reese ever show his intentions? I don't ever remember anyone predicting the Giants picks, and if they did, it wasn't because Reese tipped his hand. He had a few bad picks, a couple we were unlucky with injuries, but the lengths people will go to squarely put the blame on our old GM, instead of just saying we had a shitty team, and shit happens.
Fact.
It's not a "fact" - people here have known our picks before they were made.
B in ALB knew we were taking Pugh before the draft even started. If he knew that, who else did?
My question to you, why do you want to know?
DG won't trade down. It's not a Giants type move.
Plus, I’d love to see this post where B called the pick. I’ve been here forever and never saw it. And I don’t wannw hear that he listed 2-3 players with caveats like a few others here love to do. Save it, ain’t buying it.
How do you hide it? Don’t scout the guy? Sneak the player in through Steve’s steakhouse backroads in carlstadt?
Ok fine Pugh was leaked. Only one. And it’s still bullshit.
Plus, I’d love to see this post where B called the pick. I’ve been here forever and never saw it. And I don’t wannw hear that he listed 2-3 players with caveats like a few others here love to do. Save it, ain’t buying it.
He didn't get lucky. He played football @ Syracuse and found out from a reputable source.
It wasn't a guess. He had concrete info.
Just like we were going to take Leonard Floyd.
Jerry Reese was not running a tight ship. Word got out. It happens. I don't know why some of you guys are so unwilling to believe this.
John Fox basically admitted that the Bears jumped us to take Floyd because they already knew we were going to.
We're also picking 2nd overall which makes the entire scenario different. It means there's only one team teams can trade with to get ahead of us - and Cleveland isn't giving up #1 overall. They know they need a QB and the only way they can ensure they get him is to take him there.
Waiting until 4 is too much of a risk. NYG can certainly go QB and it's almost a lock that NYJ will. So Cleveland risks 2 QB's going off the board before they're on the clock again and if they really like one of these QB's (... Darnold) more than the others, they'll probably lose him.
We got jumped for both of them.
Just like we were going to take Leonard Floyd.
Jerry Reese was not running a tight ship. Word got out. It happens. I don't know why some of you guys are so unwilling to believe this.
John Fox basically admitted that the Bears jumped us to take Floyd because they already knew we were going to.
People called Wilson, in veiled form no less, SECONDS before the pick. Maybe minutes.
Fox "knew" the Giants liked Floyd much like I knew the guy sitting across from me had pocket aces. Gut feeling based on smoke.
Giants will draft barkley and people will say it was telegraphed.
And again, how do you "hide" your intentions? How do allow leaks to happen? Are you telling me that Reese was walking around metlife telling everyone who would listen that he loved Conklin or Floyd? Or maybe people just connected the dots?
Why do you think Dave Gettleman has made such a point of making sure this doesn't happen? He's well-aware that it was happening in the past. It has been acknowledged.
Reese didn't have to stand on a building with a megaphone for people to find out which players we were truly coveting. It's very easy for information to leak. It's really not that complicated or hard to comprehend.
And people knew about Wilson earlier than "seconds" before he was picked. That was also something that has been widely-discussed around here.
There were leaks galore under Reese. It's impossible for any org to plug every leak at every layer from scouts up, especially with two big families and so many Maras involved in the foundation.
There were leaks galore under Reese. It's impossible for any org to plug every leak at every layer from scouts up, especially with two big families and so many Maras involved in the foundation.
Thank you.
Holy shit, I feel like I'm in bizarro world here. I thought this was all very well-known stuff around here. Apparently not.
There were leaks galore under Reese. It's impossible for any org to plug every leak at every layer from scouts up, especially with two big families and so many Maras involved in the foundation.
I'd also add that hitdog mentioned both Engram and Tomlinson on several occasions before the draft.
People are human, the draft build up is vital to the NFL game, everyone gets excited over the possibilities.
People seem to forget agents, players, owners and more are involved, and there is only so much you can do.
sigh. below is a clearer version of what i was trying to say with the post
why i think the giants want to trade out of the pick - ( New Window )
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and Conklin a top Tackle, it wasn’t a leap of faith to think the Giants wanted one of them. We also may not have wanted to give what it took to move up. I really don’t see what the issue is during that draft.
We got jumped for both of them.
We did?
I love the asshattery. I just don’t think it’s fair to single out Reese or prior regimes like some are. Like JonC said there’s a human element.