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Why is DG being so coy about the Giants intentions?

PerpetualNervousness : 4/24/2018 1:24 pm
At the risk of totally overthinking things, I do wonder why the Giants are being so tightlipped about who they want. it is possible that they really don't know yet who's top of their board, but that seems unlikely at this point. I can see why Cleveland is being fuzzy about the #1. In their perfect scenario, they would know #2 and #3 are qbs, so then they can take the best qb #1 and still get the best position player in the draft at #4. they know the jets are taking a qb, and by suggesting they they might take barkley #1, maybe they push a qb hungry team to try to move up to #2 now, predraft, and then they get exactly what they want.

but for the Giants, it seems like there's less benefit outside of trying to force the browns hand somehow. if the giants really want barkley, wouldn't it make the most sense to make cleveland think the opposite, that the giants really want a qb? that seems the one way you'd guarantee barkley will be there at pick #2, since there's no way the browns want to end up with their 3rd choice quarterback. and if you really liked a qb, you'd probably much more strongly hint the reverse. the browns aren't taking Chubb #1, so if that's who the giants really liked, what's the point of keeping that a secret? making it seem like you might take 1 of 6 different players when you're #2 doesn't get you much unless you really want to trade the pick. or am i missing something?
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I think it is to  
Diver_Down : 4/24/2018 1:25 pm : link
keep you nervous.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/24/2018 1:25 pm : link
It's not that complicated. Teams can move ahead of the Giants if they desire the same player. And if the Giants trade back, they still may land their preference if teams don't know what they are doing.

My question to you, why do you want to know?
.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 1:26 pm : link
Put quite simply -

The Giants have nothing to gain by making their intentions known to other teams.

The more players they are tied to, the better. All it does is give them additional leverage in trade talks, if anything.
See some of our recent drafts under Jerry Reese  
Metnut : 4/24/2018 1:29 pm : link
for what can happen when the entire league and media know your intentions.
its so refreshing  
Pep22 : 4/24/2018 1:29 pm : link
that they have their intentions on lock down
I’ve been of the mindset for quite a while now,  
Saos1n : 4/24/2018 1:29 pm : link
They are taking Darnold or Rosen... in that order...

They are being so tight lipped, with the is exception if Barkley, so they can somehow acquire one of their top QB targets, in addition to as much draft capital as they can... a move down to 4, could get this done... their concern has to be the Jets taking Rosen.. if they believe it will go

Browns - Darnold
Browns (Trade) - Barkley
Jets - Mayfield (or Allen)

They could pull it off.... probably not worth the risk
Would you show your hand in poker?  
UConn4523 : 4/24/2018 1:30 pm : link
if not, what’s the difference? What’s the advantage of doing so?
I don't get it either...  
Amtoft : 4/24/2018 1:32 pm : link
You would think DG would show us his full draft board by now. I expected to see each column with where they have them rated by position and rounds. Why doesn't he want people to know what he is planning to do. Wouldn't it be better for us fans to know who he wants?
Oh I dont know  
Jason in OR : 4/24/2018 1:35 pm : link
Cough, Leonard Floyd... Cough...

RE: See some of our recent drafts under Jerry Reese  
PerpetualNervousness : 4/24/2018 1:37 pm : link
In comment 13928419 Metnut said:
Quote:
for what can happen when the entire league and media know your intentions.


the Giants are at #2. the browns aren't trading out of #1. no one's trading ahead of the giants to take their target. the only possibility is that cleveland takes whoever it is. my point was that if you really wanted to be so strategic about it - which is supposedly what the secretiveness is all about - you'd actually put out disinformation about who you wanted, not just pretend you liked everybody. like i said, maybe i'm overthinking it, but it does make me think they real end goal here is to trade out of the pick.
RE: I’ve been of the mindset for quite a while now,  
firedbytheboss : 4/24/2018 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13928421 Saos1n said:
Quote:
They are taking Darnold or Rosen... in that order...

They are being so tight lipped, with the is exception if Barkley, so they can somehow acquire one of their top QB targets, in addition to as much draft capital as they can... a move down to 4, could get this done... their concern has to be the Jets taking Rosen.. if they believe it will go

Browns - Darnold
Browns (Trade) - Barkley
Jets - Mayfield (or Allen)

They could pull it off.... probably not worth the risk


I think it's Rosen first Darnold second. They have no reason to tip their hand. It is still possible someone like the bills can jump ahead and take their giy.
I have to say i dont agree at all  
twostepgiants : 4/24/2018 1:45 pm : link
I hope it is true. I believe it is

But

If the media reports are right- they are an open book

The media consensus is Barkley with an outside shot at Darnold if he falls and no other QB is being considered

IF thats true- and vast majority of BBI does think it is

what have the Giants kept secret?
Its been highly suggested  
BlueManCrew : 4/24/2018 1:45 pm : link
that we've had intel leaks the last few years that have cost us the picks we really wanted. Particularly Conklin and Floyd when teams traded ahead of us. Keep it tight until draft day and we'll all be happier fans as a result.
RE: RE: See some of our recent drafts under Jerry Reese  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 1:45 pm : link
In comment 13928444 PerpetualNervousness said:
Quote:
In comment 13928419 Metnut said:


Quote:


for what can happen when the entire league and media know your intentions.



the Giants are at #2. the browns aren't trading out of #1. no one's trading ahead of the giants to take their target. the only possibility is that cleveland takes whoever it is. my point was that if you really wanted to be so strategic about it - which is supposedly what the secretiveness is all about - you'd actually put out disinformation about who you wanted, not just pretend you liked everybody. like i said, maybe i'm overthinking it, but it does make me think they real end goal here is to trade out of the pick.


Just flip it around and ask yourself this question...

What do the Giants have to gain by being transparent about who they like and what their intentions are?

We've already seen a trade scenario with Cleveland where they could potentially swap #2/#4 with us and give us their 2nd rounders to do so. If they knew who we were going to take, it's possible they'd be less inclined to explore this. It's the uncertainty and worry that perhaps we could either take Barkley or the QB they want off the board before they pick again @ 4 - this trade would ensure that they get both.

Potential trades like that will pop up if our intentions are masked well enough. That's why you do it.
Put another way  
twostepgiants : 4/24/2018 1:49 pm : link
The Giants are a total vault with no one having any idea of draft plans

And

We all know Giants are drafting Barkley unless the slight chance that Darnold drops bevause they definately dont like The other 3 QBs.

Both of those statements cannot be true
i guess i wasn't very clear  
PerpetualNervousness : 4/24/2018 2:04 pm : link
my point wasn't that the giants should wave a giant neon sign making clear who their favorite is. it was that if they have a favorite, pretending you like everyone is actually probably not the best strategy for getting him at #2. to go back to someones poker analogy, if there's only two people at the table, and you think you've got the weaker hand, that's when you bluff. if the giants want barkley at #2, then the best way to get him is to make cleveland think they want a qb, though be coy about which one, not to have cleveland think they may take any of 6 possible players, barkley among them. if you think DG's being strategic - which seems to be the consensus - then it just seems like its a strategy where the end goal is to maximize the trade value of the pick, not to pick a particular player
Weren't you here last season,  
Doomster : 4/24/2018 2:15 pm : link
when the Giants were accused by BBI of being to open about their preferences, and thus the trade ups in front of the Giants last season?

I thought it was ludicrous, myself.....Giants had specific needs.....and teams drafting behind them, felt their guy would be drafted by the Giants, so they traded up.....simple explanation, but BBI said Reese asleep at the wheel, again.....

But isn't it advantageous to keep other teams guessing? But in this case, I seriously doubt anyone can come up with a package to get the #1 pick, ahead of the Giants......

DG doesn't have to do anything.....if Cleveland takes "our" guy, then he should be ready for it, either with his second choice or if another team has approached him about a trade down, based on Clevelands's first pick.....
RE: i guess i wasn't very clear  
Beer Man : 4/24/2018 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13928484 PerpetualNervousness said:
Quote:
my point wasn't that the giants should wave a giant neon sign making clear who their favorite is. it was that if they have a favorite, pretending you like everyone is actually probably not the best strategy for getting him at #2. to go back to someones poker analogy, if there's only two people at the table, and you think you've got the weaker hand, that's when you bluff. if the giants want barkley at #2, then the best way to get him is to make cleveland think they want a qb, though be coy about which one, not to have cleveland think they may take any of 6 possible players, barkley among them. if you think DG's being strategic - which seems to be the consensus - then it just seems like its a strategy where the end goal is to maximize the trade value of the pick, not to pick a particular player
Sure it is. This is high stakes poker and the team doesn't want anyone to know who they may want, or what positions they may be targeting. A couple years ago there was a LT and a LB that were reported to be the Giants targets, true or not two teams leapfrogged the Giants and to take those players. The best way to keep teams guessing is too make everyone think that your in love with everyone on the board and that anything is a possibility.
Why is DG being so coy about the Giants intentions?  
Gman11 : 4/24/2018 2:23 pm : link
You're new around here, aren't ya?
'CAUSE IT AIN'T NONE A YOUR BUSINESS!!!  
TC : 4/24/2018 2:25 pm : link
:-)
Please,  
oldog : 4/24/2018 2:42 pm : link
the draft is a poker game, and showing your hand in a poker game, is always unwise. Just keep them close to you chest.
the giants don't have the 10th pick, they have the 2nd pick  
PerpetualNervousness : 4/24/2018 2:43 pm : link
i don't want to belabor the point, but the idea that keeping the giants intentions vague this season is somehow preventing lots of teams from jumping ahead of them is actually not what's going on here. there's only 1 pick ahead of them, not many, as was the case when they didnt get floyd or conklin. there's only 1 team that can impact who they pick at 2, and that team's universe of options is pretty easily predicted. cleveland will either take a qb, or they will take barkley. they will not trade the pick - there's no trading partner for them. you'd think the play for the giants, if they had a target, would be to try to manipulate the browns, which they dont' seem to be doing. i guess my point is that it seems to me that given that, they're likelier to trade the pick than not.
RE: the giants don't have the 10th pick, they have the 2nd pick  
Strahan91 : 4/24/2018 2:46 pm : link
In comment 13928633 PerpetualNervousness said:
Quote:
i don't want to belabor the point, but the idea that keeping the giants intentions vague this season is somehow preventing lots of teams from jumping ahead of them is actually not what's going on here. there's only 1 pick ahead of them, not many, as was the case when they didnt get floyd or conklin. there's only 1 team that can impact who they pick at 2, and that team's universe of options is pretty easily predicted. cleveland will either take a qb, or they will take barkley. they will not trade the pick - there's no trading partner for them. you'd think the play for the giants, if they had a target, would be to try to manipulate the browns, which they dont' seem to be doing. i guess my point is that it seems to me that given that, they're likelier to trade the pick than not.


and what exactly is the upside to showing your hand? the downside risks are several different lower probability scenarios, but what's the upside? If there's no upside and there is some potential downside risk even if unlikely, it's smart to keep your intentions hidden.
This whole thread reeks of bullshit.  
barens : 4/24/2018 2:48 pm : link
How exactly did Reese ever show his intentions? I don't ever remember anyone predicting the Giants picks, and if they did, it wasn't because Reese tipped his hand. He had a few bad picks, a couple we were unlucky with injuries, but the lengths people will go to squarely put the blame on our old GM, instead of just saying we had a shitty team, and shit happens.
RE: This whole thread reeks of bullshit.  
Strahan91 : 4/24/2018 2:51 pm : link
In comment 13928654 barens said:
Quote:
How exactly did Reese ever show his intentions? I don't ever remember anyone predicting the Giants picks, and if they did, it wasn't because Reese tipped his hand. He had a few bad picks, a couple we were unlucky with injuries, but the lengths people will go to squarely put the blame on our old GM, instead of just saying we had a shitty team, and shit happens.


You'd have to be pretty naive to believe that the Giants were targeting Apple all along and the Bears and Titans just happened to trade up for Conklin and Floyd at 8 and 9 when the Giants were picking 10.
RE: This whole thread reeks of bullshit.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 2:53 pm : link
In comment 13928654 barens said:
Quote:
How exactly did Reese ever show his intentions? I don't ever remember anyone predicting the Giants picks, and if they did, it wasn't because Reese tipped his hand. He had a few bad picks, a couple we were unlucky with injuries, but the lengths people will go to squarely put the blame on our old GM, instead of just saying we had a shitty team, and shit happens.


Leonard Floyd and Jack Conklin seem to be players you've forgotten quickly.
RE: RE: This whole thread reeks of bullshit.  
Beer Man : 4/24/2018 3:00 pm : link
In comment 13928668 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13928654 barens said:


Quote:


How exactly did Reese ever show his intentions? I don't ever remember anyone predicting the Giants picks, and if they did, it wasn't because Reese tipped his hand. He had a few bad picks, a couple we were unlucky with injuries, but the lengths people will go to squarely put the blame on our old GM, instead of just saying we had a shitty team, and shit happens.



Leonard Floyd and Jack Conklin seem to be players you've forgotten quickly.
+1. You beat me to it. It may not have been Reese that was doing the leaking, but it appeared that someone with inside knowledge was feeding the press.
Why?  
TC : 4/24/2018 3:01 pm : link
The simple answer is there is nothing to be gained by doing so. And by doing so, they can an inhibit receiving trade offers from teams who want someone other than the prospect the Giants name.
To be honest if he ends up taking Barkley  
bigbluescot : 4/24/2018 3:06 pm : link
I wouldn't say he's been particularly coy. He's been ridiculously effusive about Barkley throughout the process.
Having the #2 pick  
ryanmkeane : 4/24/2018 3:09 pm : link
it's not like we are picking from 10 guys. There are probably 3-4 players the Giants are considering. So it probably won't be a surprise. The great thing is, nobody really knows in what order the preference is...all we know is that Barkley, Chubb, Nelson, and probably 1 QB are in the top 4
Because DG  
Giant John : 4/24/2018 3:20 pm : link
Is trying to influence the thinking of other teams by forcing them to speculate and react to that thinking in such a way as to favor theGiants.
Simple  
widmerseyebrow : 4/24/2018 3:27 pm : link
Keeps all prospective trade downs open. And if we do trade down, it keeps all those teams ahead of us in the dark about who we really want.
RE: RE: This whole thread reeks of bullshit.  
barens : 4/24/2018 4:04 pm : link
In comment 13928668 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13928654 barens said:


Quote:


How exactly did Reese ever show his intentions? I don't ever remember anyone predicting the Giants picks, and if they did, it wasn't because Reese tipped his hand. He had a few bad picks, a couple we were unlucky with injuries, but the lengths people will go to squarely put the blame on our old GM, instead of just saying we had a shitty team, and shit happens.



Leonard Floyd and Jack Conklin seem to be players you've forgotten quickly.


I don't think it took a mental genius to figure out that the Giants needs aligned with the best players available at the time. That's just how the draft goes some years, you don't always get what you want. The only thing that could have changed that is if they traded up, which they made the decision not to, and you'd have a better point if you wanted to knock Reese for not doing that, but acting like he was the most predictable GM with which player he wanted? Complete bullshit.
Is this your fist year watching the NFL? Sounds like it.  
SterlingArcher : 4/24/2018 5:11 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: This whole thread reeks of bullshit.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 5:33 pm : link
In comment 13928846 barens said:
Quote:
In comment 13928668 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 13928654 barens said:


Quote:


How exactly did Reese ever show his intentions? I don't ever remember anyone predicting the Giants picks, and if they did, it wasn't because Reese tipped his hand. He had a few bad picks, a couple we were unlucky with injuries, but the lengths people will go to squarely put the blame on our old GM, instead of just saying we had a shitty team, and shit happens.



Leonard Floyd and Jack Conklin seem to be players you've forgotten quickly.



I don't think it took a mental genius to figure out that the Giants needs aligned with the best players available at the time. That's just how the draft goes some years, you don't always get what you want. The only thing that could have changed that is if they traded up, which they made the decision not to, and you'd have a better point if you wanted to knock Reese for not doing that, but acting like he was the most predictable GM with which player he wanted? Complete bullshit.


It was very well-known before the draft even started or before we were ever on the clock that we had major interest in both players. It's not "bullshit" and not a coincidence that two teams leapfrogged us to get them. They knew we wanted them.

You've had your head in the sand on this.

Leonard Floyd especially was a name being repeated over and over again here and in general for the Giants. Our intent was very much telegraphed that year and most everyone knew it.
Telegraphed? It wasn’t exactly a talent rich draft,  
barens : 4/24/2018 6:14 pm : link
And the Giants weren’t the only team that had interest in those two players. There were maybe 10 “blue chip” players going into that draft, and one of them had a draft day bomb dropped on them(Tunseil). Again, I don’t exactly know what Reese did to let everyone know who they were going to pick, but that seemed to be the logical landing spot for those players regardless of what team was selecting there.

The bottom line, to me, is if they really wanted one of those players, they would have had to trade up, and who knows what options were on the table.

Let me ask you, did you know the Giants were going to draft Pugh? OBJ? Even Flowers? Or Engram? I sure didn’t.
Floyd was the top pass rusher in the draft  
UConn4523 : 4/24/2018 6:21 pm : link
and Conklin a top Tackle, it wasn’t a leap of faith to think the Giants wanted one of them. We also may not have wanted to give what it took to move up. I really don’t see what the issue is during that draft.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 6:24 pm : link
If they hadn't been so clear about liking those players, it's possible that CHI/TEN would have simply sat tight thinking the players would fall past the Giants or at least have taken that chance if they were under the impression that NYG were interested in other players there.

They both leapfrogged us because everyone in the world knew those were our targets.

As far as other players - as a matter of fact, there were guys here who knew about both David Wilson AND Justin Pugh before we were on the clock.

Read JonC's posts regarding leaks this year. He's said several times that much, much less info is getting out now than in the past. The draft is in 2 days, we are picking 2nd overall, and not a single person outside of Giants Central seems to know exactly what their plan is.

Contrast that with 2 years ago where leading up to the draft, all you heard about was Leonard Floyd and to a slightly lesser degree, Jack Conklin coming from here. It was very clear who we wanted and both the Bears and Titans knew it.
RE: Floyd was the top pass rusher in the draft  
Strahan91 : 4/24/2018 6:44 pm : link
In comment 13929058 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and Conklin a top Tackle, it wasn’t a leap of faith to think the Giants wanted one of them. We also may not have wanted to give what it took to move up. I really don’t see what the issue is during that draft.


Floyd with his 4.5 sacks in his junior year ahead of declaring for the draft was the best pass rusher in a draft with Joey Bosa? Floyd was a late riser but before the Giants interest he wasn't projected in the top 10 by most.
As an OLB, yes  
UConn4523 : 4/24/2018 7:17 pm : link
he was he top pass rusher and had freakish length coming from the SEC. if our interest in him caused the Bears to jump us and give up picks for him, so be it. If Reese wanted him bad enough he could have traded up for him, but he didn’t.
You should ask the worst kept secret, the Browns taking Darnold...  
GFAN52 : 4/24/2018 7:36 pm : link
and why Dorsey is still playing coy.
And drafting 1 when you also have 4  
UConn4523 : 4/24/2018 7:42 pm : link
or drafting 2 when you still maybe want to keep your current QB opens up the options for both teams. I think part of it is simply that, anyone of 5 or 6 guys is possible so it’s less about being coy and more about say “no shit we like that guy”.
RE: This whole thread reeks of bullshit.  
djm : 4/24/2018 7:50 pm : link
In comment 13928654 barens said:
Quote:
How exactly did Reese ever show his intentions? I don't ever remember anyone predicting the Giants picks, and if they did, it wasn't because Reese tipped his hand. He had a few bad picks, a couple we were unlucky with injuries, but the lengths people will go to squarely put the blame on our old GM, instead of just saying we had a shitty team, and shit happens.


Fact.
RE: RE: This whole thread reeks of bullshit.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 7:51 pm : link
In comment 13929176 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13928654 barens said:


Quote:


How exactly did Reese ever show his intentions? I don't ever remember anyone predicting the Giants picks, and if they did, it wasn't because Reese tipped his hand. He had a few bad picks, a couple we were unlucky with injuries, but the lengths people will go to squarely put the blame on our old GM, instead of just saying we had a shitty team, and shit happens.



Fact.


It's not a "fact" - people here have known our picks before they were made.

B in ALB knew we were taking Pugh before the draft even started. If he knew that, who else did?
RE: ... Eric, I agree...  
Darasman : 4/24/2018 7:53 pm : link
In comment 13928414 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
It's not that complicated. Teams can move ahead of the Giants if they desire the same player. And if the Giants trade back, they still may land their preference if teams don't know what they are doing.

My question to you, why do you want to know?
Giants have thrown out the Barkley stuff  
Tuckrule : 4/24/2018 9:49 pm : link
To get Cleveland to possibly take him at 1. I really don’t see any chance we actually draft a running back Idc who it is at 2 overall when we have a 37 year old qb. We draft a qb or try and trade down. It’s really that simple
RE: Giants have thrown out the Barkley stuff  
GFAN52 : 4/24/2018 9:56 pm : link
In comment 13929408 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
To get Cleveland to possibly take him at 1. I really don’t see any chance we actually draft a running back Idc who it is at 2 overall when we have a 37 year old qb. We draft a qb or try and trade down. It’s really that simple


DG won't trade down. It's not a Giants type move.
Arc  
djm : 4/24/2018 9:59 pm : link
I’m sorry but that’s bullshit. B likely just got lucky. Pugh was a pretty highly rated guard tackle and the giants had a need there. Wow, a regular Nostradamus!

Plus, I’d love to see this post where B called the pick. I’ve been here forever and never saw it. And I don’t wannw hear that he listed 2-3 players with caveats like a few others here love to do. Save it, ain’t buying it.
I really hope  
You'reMyBoyBlue!! : 4/24/2018 10:00 pm : link
This was a 3 year troll job where you set-up a username to one day come back and ask an incredibly ridiculous question that perfectly fits your name.
Even if there were “leaks” (bullshit)  
djm : 4/24/2018 10:02 pm : link
How on earth is that on Reese?

How do you hide it? Don’t scout the guy? Sneak the player in through Steve’s steakhouse backroads in carlstadt?

Ok fine Pugh was leaked. Only one. And it’s still bullshit.
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