a RB at 2. I'm a numbers guy and valuewise, it would be a terrible move, IMO.
Keith, I'm a numbers guy as well. I understand that the numbers generally speaking show drafting a RB at #2 overall is not a good use of resources (injury risk, shorter career-span, low positional value, serviceable RBs can be had in mid-rounds). But I would say three things:
1) In a bell curve, there are outliers, not EVERY RB in history has been not worth the #2 pick (I would absolutely take Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk, Adrian Peterson at #2 if they were available in this draft). Barkley received the highest rating of ANY PLAYER in Sy's 6 year history of covering the draft, and his combine numbers were off the charts, Barkley could be one of those rare special talents and is not just any RB.
2) Barkley catches the ball, runs routes, and pass blocks better than any RB coming out of college in a long time. He also has both speed AND power running abilities. He has more positional value than a typical RB.
3) Trends change and we have to take recent experience into account and consider it more valuable than old experience. With the successful "high" drafting of Fournette, Gurley, Elliot in the past few years, the old numbers while still important are not as significant as we might think. Yes, this assumes we need a strong o-line similar to the Jags and Cowboys, and we can build that in rounds 2 and 3 (and next year), but let's not discount the importance of those start RBs to their respective offenses.
how few picked Mayfield so far (who I like a ton) is that because people like him more than most or just because they don't think he's even on the radar?
For me he is middle of the pack. The height is an issue, but I think with the right coaching staff he can succeed. Case Keenum is not a big QB and came from a run and shoot offense in college and look how Shurmur did with him. Given that we can have Mayfield sit for a year and learn NFL defenses I also have less concern about his transition. That being said, if we ever move on from Shurmur before Mayfield can mature we could end up with round peg and square hole.
Keenum doesn't have nearly the arm Mayfield has... not even close. People don't talk about it but Mayfield has a cannon also. If it wasn't for Josh Allen and his superman arm it would be talked about more. Keenum has a weak arm, but saying Mayfield is a strong armed Keeunum is not a bad comparison. If Keenum had a stronger arm he would be one of the better QBs in the league so that is something to think about.
4.1 YPC last year, and for all the chatter about how much he supposedly means to the Cowboys, they were 6-4 with him and 3-3 without him, and one of the 6 wins with him was the meaningless season finale with an Eagles team that was resting for the playoffs and played Nate Sudfeld at QB for most of the game.
Elliott in ten starts (behind a much much better OL): 983 yards, 4.1 YPC, 7 TDs
Darkwa in eleven starts: 751 yards, 4.4 YPC, 5 TDs
I think Mayfield is the goods, and could be a great NFL QB Â
But I do have reservations that his personality could be disastrous in NY - if he struggled early on, I don't know how well he could tune out the press sniping at him and the fans booing him.
What? "Go on record" is a teenage girl term? Since when? Strange comment to say the least.
"Embrace a position publicly. For example, I want to go on record in favor of the mayor's reelection. It is also put as for the record, as in For the record, we support sending troops there. The record in both signifies either publication or public knowledge. Both expressions date from the first half of the 1900s, although slightly different phrases, such as put on record, are older. Also see just for the record; off the record."
What does your pile of useless information above have to do with Saquon Barkley?
Point out to me where I reference Certain Sure-Fire Gold Jacket Hall of Famer™ Saquon Barkley in my comment. I'll wait.....for quite a while, since there wasn't one, dolt.
4.1 YPC last year, and for all the chatter about how much he supposedly means to the Cowboys, they were 6-4 with him and 3-3 without him, and one of the 6 wins with him was the meaningless season finale with an Eagles team that was resting for the playoffs and played Nate Sudfeld at QB for most of the game.
Elliott in ten starts (behind a much much better OL): 983 yards, 4.1 YPC, 7 TDs
Darkwa in eleven starts: 751 yards, 4.4 YPC, 5 TDs
Unsure if you’ve been waiting to post this, but I don’t see where Elliot was brought up in this thread.
1. Josh Allen
2. Mayfield close 2nd (talent not the issue but a ticking time bomb personality wise- could be worse than OBJ antics , not good for the leader of the team)
3. Chubb . High floor but not elite ceiling IMO. Could be wrong, Im back and forth on him because there is alot to like but I dont know if he is a high sack total guy on this level.
What? "Go on record" is a teenage girl term? Since when? Strange comment to say the least.
"Embrace a position publicly. For example, I want to go on record in favor of the mayor's reelection. It is also put as for the record, as in For the record, we support sending troops there. The record in both signifies either publication or public knowledge. Both expressions date from the first half of the 1900s, although slightly different phrases, such as put on record, are older. Also see just for the record; off the record."
He's bent out of shape because he started his own "go on record" thread last week about Eli that was framed much shittier and met with several responses in kind.
What? "Go on record" is a teenage girl term? Since when? Strange comment to say the least.
"Embrace a position publicly. For example, I want to go on record in favor of the mayor's reelection. It is also put as for the record, as in For the record, we support sending troops there. The record in both signifies either publication or public knowledge. Both expressions date from the first half of the 1900s, although slightly different phrases, such as put on record, are older. Also see just for the record; off the record."
Dan -
Sho'Nuff started a thread the other day for BBI to "go on the record" for who is quitting on Eli. There were prompt responses as to if he was a teenage girl. It must have struck a nerve because since then there has been other "go on the record" threads and Sho'Nuff's response/retort has been to ask if they are a teenage girl.
RE: RE: jfc, the way some of you people go on and on about Ezekiel Elliott Â
Unsure if you’ve been waiting to post this, but I don’t see where Elliot was brought up in this thread.
I guess you don't read too closely.
[quote]RE: I just can't wrap my head around
Knee of Theismann : 2:32 pm : link : reply
.....
3) Trends change and we have to take recent experience into account and consider it more valuable than old experience. With the successful "high" drafting of Fournette, Gurley, Elliot in the past few years, the old numbers while still important are not as significant as we might think. Yes, this assumes we need a strong o-line similar to the Jags and Cowboys, and we can build that in rounds 2 and 3 (and next year), but let's not discount the importance of those start RBs to their respective offenses.
SHO'NUFF is the same guy who claimed that the Giants only drafted Clint Sintim because Al Groh and Tom Coughlin are supposedly best friends because they were on the same coaching staff, coaching opposite sides of the ball, almost 20 years before Sintim was drafted.
Great physical tools, pretty mediocre performance in college, despite them. I don't care if his coaching was sub-par, he did what he did and nobody who's performed like that in college has ever become a star NFL QB.
There's a first time for everything but I wouldn't take the risk at #2 overall.
What? "Go on record" is a teenage girl term? Since when? Strange comment to say the least.
"Embrace a position publicly. For example, I want to go on record in favor of the mayor's reelection. It is also put as for the record, as in For the record, we support sending troops there. The record in both signifies either publication or public knowledge. Both expressions date from the first half of the 1900s, although slightly different phrases, such as put on record, are older. Also see just for the record; off the record."
Dan -
Sho'Nuff started a thread the other day for BBI to "go on the record" for who is quitting on Eli. There were prompt responses as to if he was a teenage girl. It must have struck a nerve because since then there has been other "go on the record" threads and Sho'Nuff's response/retort has been to ask if they are a teenage girl.
I have a bad feeling about Rosen. Guy seems to get rattled in big moments, succeeds when he can be the most robotic. All purpose DE can be found later and he isn't so much better than anyone else at the position that he is worth a pick at 2.
To put it in perspective, I am in favor of:
QB of staffs dreams>lucrative Trade back>Barkley>reasonable trade back>Anyone else Starting with R. Smith GA.
Note: Both trades would be contingent on 2019 1st round pick being included.
I hope that Mara, DG, Shurmur, Shula, etc. see the need that we have at QB and the HUGE opportunity lost if we don't address that need.
I prefer Rosen but I'd still be happy with whatever QB that they choose.
If they don't go QB I think it's a big mistake, but at least Barkley would potentially give us two big playmakers on Offense if he were the pick.
Chubb would be over-drafted at 2 and a big, big disappointment if he were the choice. Would have selected Nelson as the worst choice if he was included on the OP's list.
trade down and get Nelson and as many picks/ players as you can get. A strong draft could get us back into contention next year. Then we will see if DG is the draft guru that he has been touted to be. Good to go with ELI and Webb next year with an improved cast.
Keith, I'm a numbers guy as well. I understand that the numbers generally speaking show drafting a RB at #2 overall is not a good use of resources (injury risk, shorter career-span, low positional value, serviceable RBs can be had in mid-rounds). But I would say three things:
1) In a bell curve, there are outliers, not EVERY RB in history has been not worth the #2 pick (I would absolutely take Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk, Adrian Peterson at #2 if they were available in this draft). Barkley received the highest rating of ANY PLAYER in Sy's 6 year history of covering the draft, and his combine numbers were off the charts, Barkley could be one of those rare special talents and is not just any RB.
2) Barkley catches the ball, runs routes, and pass blocks better than any RB coming out of college in a long time. He also has both speed AND power running abilities. He has more positional value than a typical RB.
3) Trends change and we have to take recent experience into account and consider it more valuable than old experience. With the successful "high" drafting of Fournette, Gurley, Elliot in the past few years, the old numbers while still important are not as significant as we might think. Yes, this assumes we need a strong o-line similar to the Jags and Cowboys, and we can build that in rounds 2 and 3 (and next year), but let's not discount the importance of those start RBs to their respective offenses.
Quote:
how few picked Mayfield so far (who I like a ton) is that because people like him more than most or just because they don't think he's even on the radar?
For me he is middle of the pack. The height is an issue, but I think with the right coaching staff he can succeed. Case Keenum is not a big QB and came from a run and shoot offense in college and look how Shurmur did with him. Given that we can have Mayfield sit for a year and learn NFL defenses I also have less concern about his transition. That being said, if we ever move on from Shurmur before Mayfield can mature we could end up with round peg and square hole.
Keenum doesn't have nearly the arm Mayfield has... not even close. People don't talk about it but Mayfield has a cannon also. If it wasn't for Josh Allen and his superman arm it would be talked about more. Keenum has a weak arm, but saying Mayfield is a strong armed Keeunum is not a bad comparison. If Keenum had a stronger arm he would be one of the better QBs in the league so that is something to think about.
you can never have too many play makers.
I'm accustomed to a QB who never misses a game!
Rosen isn't going to be that guy.
Elliott in ten starts (behind a much much better OL): 983 yards, 4.1 YPC, 7 TDs
Darkwa in eleven starts: 751 yards, 4.4 YPC, 5 TDs
...least.
What? "Go on record" is a teenage girl term? Since when? Strange comment to say the least.
"Embrace a position publicly. For example, I want to go on record in favor of the mayor's reelection. It is also put as for the record, as in For the record, we support sending troops there. The record in both signifies either publication or public knowledge. Both expressions date from the first half of the 1900s, although slightly different phrases, such as put on record, are older. Also see just for the record; off the record."
Quote:
what are you...a teenage girl?
What? "Go on record" is a teenage girl term? Since when? Strange comment to say the least.
Consider the source, Dan.
Point out to me where I reference Certain Sure-Fire Gold Jacket Hall of Famer™ Saquon Barkley in my comment. I'll wait.....for quite a while, since there wasn't one, dolt.
Elliott in ten starts (behind a much much better OL): 983 yards, 4.1 YPC, 7 TDs
Darkwa in eleven starts: 751 yards, 4.4 YPC, 5 TDs
Unsure if you’ve been waiting to post this, but I don’t see where Elliot was brought up in this thread.
2. Mayfield close 2nd (talent not the issue but a ticking time bomb personality wise- could be worse than OBJ antics , not good for the leader of the team)
3. Chubb . High floor but not elite ceiling IMO. Could be wrong, Im back and forth on him because there is alot to like but I dont know if he is a high sack total guy on this level.
Quote:
what are you...a teenage girl?
What? "Go on record" is a teenage girl term? Since when? Strange comment to say the least.
"Embrace a position publicly. For example, I want to go on record in favor of the mayor's reelection. It is also put as for the record, as in For the record, we support sending troops there. The record in both signifies either publication or public knowledge. Both expressions date from the first half of the 1900s, although slightly different phrases, such as put on record, are older. Also see just for the record; off the record."
He's bent out of shape because he started his own "go on record" thread last week about Eli that was framed much shittier and met with several responses in kind.
Quote:
what are you...a teenage girl?
What? "Go on record" is a teenage girl term? Since when? Strange comment to say the least.
"Embrace a position publicly. For example, I want to go on record in favor of the mayor's reelection. It is also put as for the record, as in For the record, we support sending troops there. The record in both signifies either publication or public knowledge. Both expressions date from the first half of the 1900s, although slightly different phrases, such as put on record, are older. Also see just for the record; off the record."
Dan -
Sho'Nuff started a thread the other day for BBI to "go on the record" for who is quitting on Eli. There were prompt responses as to if he was a teenage girl. It must have struck a nerve because since then there has been other "go on the record" threads and Sho'Nuff's response/retort has been to ask if they are a teenage girl.
Unsure if you’ve been waiting to post this, but I don’t see where Elliot was brought up in this thread.
I guess you don't read too closely.
[quote]RE: I just can't wrap my head around
Knee of Theismann : 2:32 pm : link : reply
.....
3) Trends change and we have to take recent experience into account and consider it more valuable than old experience. With the successful "high" drafting of Fournette, Gurley, Elliot in the past few years, the old numbers while still important are not as significant as we might think. Yes, this assumes we need a strong o-line similar to the Jags and Cowboys, and we can build that in rounds 2 and 3 (and next year), but let's not discount the importance of those start RBs to their respective offenses.
There's a first time for everything but I wouldn't take the risk at #2 overall.
Quote:
In comment 13928630 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
what are you...a teenage girl?
What? "Go on record" is a teenage girl term? Since when? Strange comment to say the least.
"Embrace a position publicly. For example, I want to go on record in favor of the mayor's reelection. It is also put as for the record, as in For the record, we support sending troops there. The record in both signifies either publication or public knowledge. Both expressions date from the first half of the 1900s, although slightly different phrases, such as put on record, are older. Also see just for the record; off the record."
Dan -
Sho'Nuff started a thread the other day for BBI to "go on the record" for who is quitting on Eli. There were prompt responses as to if he was a teenage girl. It must have struck a nerve because since then there has been other "go on the record" threads and Sho'Nuff's response/retort has been to ask if they are a teenage girl.
Thanks. I had no idea.
If Barkley is there, done deal for me.
To put it in perspective, I am in favor of:
QB of staffs dreams>lucrative Trade back>Barkley>reasonable trade back>Anyone else Starting with R. Smith GA.
Note: Both trades would be contingent on 2019 1st round pick being included.
I prefer Rosen but I'd still be happy with whatever QB that they choose.
If they don't go QB I think it's a big mistake, but at least Barkley would potentially give us two big playmakers on Offense if he were the pick.
Chubb would be over-drafted at 2 and a big, big disappointment if he were the choice. Would have selected Nelson as the worst choice if he was included on the OP's list.