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NFT: New York Mets @ St. Louis Cardinals - 8:15 pm - Wheels Up!

arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 7:16 pm
Metsies:

1. Michael Conforto (L) CF
2. Yoenis Cespedes (R) LF
3. Asdrubal Cabrera (S) 2B
4. Todd Frazier (R) 3B
5. Jay Bruce (L) RF
6. Adrian Gonzalez (L) 1B
7. Amed Rosario (R) SS
8. Tomas Nido (R) C
9. Zack Wheeler (L) P

Cards:

1. Matt Carpenter (L) 3B
2. Tommy Pham (R) CF
3. Jose Martinez (R) 1B
4. Marcell Ozuna (R) LF
5. Yadier Molina (R) C
6. Dexter Fowler (S) RF
7. Paul DeJong (R) SS
8. Kolten Wong (L) 2B
9. Luke Weaver (R) P

Saturday sucked, Sunday was a washout, yesterday was an off day.

Time to get back on track. Out in StL now, heading to the West Coast for a set with the Pads. Would like to see us take 4 of these 6 road games before we get back home for a re-match with the Barves.

#LGM
Who did this schedule?  
Rflairr : 4/24/2018 7:33 pm : link
The Mets are going out West and only playing one team???
.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 7:37 pm : link
Yeah, I thought that was weird too.

I don't think we go any further than Arizona until the very beginning of September when we head back to CA to play SF and LA.
The only records the Mets ever set are bad ones lol  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 8:20 pm : link
37 Ks in 20 games for Cespedes...oof.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 8:23 pm : link
I think we caught a break there - looked like Scooter was out.
RE: .  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 8:25 pm : link
In comment 13929240 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I think we caught a break there - looked like Scooter was out.


He very well may have been out, but it definitely wasnt conclusive. But I agree.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 8:33 pm : link
Wonderful start.
Dumb lead off walks  
Rflairr : 4/24/2018 8:34 pm : link
.
Here we go.  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 8:34 pm : link
I can see the two days off did us well lol.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 8:34 pm : link
3 batters up, 0 batters out.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 8:35 pm : link
Looks like Wheeler was told to keep the ball down and is taking it to an extreme.
I wonder if the Mets  
pjcas18 : 4/24/2018 8:36 pm : link
have the worst 1st inning ERA in the league.

Seems like there are a lot of early struggles.
Jesus, how the heck does Wong get to that ball while  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 8:48 pm : link
playing in? Great play. Unlucky for the Mets.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 8:52 pm : link
I can't stand Nido. He's horrible.
Up there hacking when all we need is a SF  
Rflairr : 4/24/2018 8:52 pm : link
Unreal
This is a bad offensive team.  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 8:53 pm : link
.
Every season this team  
Rflairr : 4/24/2018 8:54 pm : link
Is horrible with a runner at third and less than two outs.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 8:57 pm : link
Do they need to talk about Paul DeJong's ridiculous series against us last year every single time he bats?

This is the 4th time we've played StL this year and I swear they re-hash this every fucking AB he has.
Shouldnt be a surprise, really. We all knew going into the season  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 9:00 pm : link
that we were going to need health and a hell of a lot of luck to even get close to the wild card. Well, we lost a starter, our best reliever, and both catchers to injury. And we sure as hell aint very lucky. Hence, the Mets.
RE: Shouldnt be a surprise, really. We all knew going into the season  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 9:02 pm : link
In comment 13929313 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
that we were going to need health and a hell of a lot of luck to even get close to the wild card. Well, we lost a starter, our best reliever, and both catchers to injury. And we sure as hell aint very lucky. Hence, the Mets.


Familia isn't hurt. :)
Jeesh another strikeout  
Rflairr : 4/24/2018 9:10 pm : link
.
RE: RE: Shouldnt be a surprise, really. We all knew going into the season  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 9:11 pm : link
In comment 13929321 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13929313 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


that we were going to need health and a hell of a lot of luck to even get close to the wild card. Well, we lost a starter, our best reliever, and both catchers to injury. And we sure as hell aint very lucky. Hence, the Mets.



Familia isn't hurt. :)


Not taking the bait haha
Wheeler isnt fooling any of the Cardinal hitters.  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 9:18 pm : link
They are on top of everything (or hes walking them).
RE: Wheeler isnt fooling any of the Cardinal hitters.  
pjcas18 : 4/24/2018 9:21 pm : link
In comment 13929361 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
They are on top of everything (or hes walking them).


the evidence in case you needed it:

Quote:

Michael Baron
‏Verified account @michaelgbaron
8s9 seconds ago

2 swings and misses out of Wheelers 51 pitches so far tonight. It would be nice if that percentage were to improve. #Mets
Maybe in May we can see our pitchers pitch a game  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 9:26 pm : link
with their best stuff. Or maybe the hitters. Ill take one. Maybe the weather will be more conducive for the Mets players comfort factor.
RE: Maybe in May we can see our pitchers pitch a game  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 9:31 pm : link
In comment 13929377 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
with their best stuff. Or maybe the hitters. Ill take one. Maybe the weather will be more conducive for the Mets players comfort factor.


LOL, yeah... excuse season has come and gone for me.

Tired of hearing about how everyone is ice cold or the weather hasn't warmed up yet.

Gotta be better if we want to stay in the mix all year.
Well, Wheeler is having quite a piss poor game.  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 9:35 pm : link
.
I'm done with Wheeler  
Rob in Rockaway : 4/24/2018 9:36 pm : link
how this team was 12-2 is beyond me
RE: I'm done with Wheeler  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 9:38 pm : link
In comment 13929393 Rob in Rockaway said:
Quote:
how this team was 12-2 is beyond me


Smoke and mirrors. Easy to win games when EVERYTHING goes your way.

At some point, that ends.
Lol, Wheeler wont even make it through 5 innings.  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 9:43 pm : link
Nice job kid.
Time has come to move on from the 5 as a collective  
moespree : 4/24/2018 9:45 pm : link
Matz, Harvey and Wheeler offer next to nothing at this point. It is too bad we never really go to see them all healthy and at their best at the same time, but that's sports and that's life.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 9:48 pm : link
Enough with the fucking 4 inning starts, man. Can't keep happening no matter how many BP arms we use.
So I think you need to give him one more start  
bhill410 : 4/24/2018 9:48 pm : link
And if he faulters move gsellman back to the rotation
.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 9:52 pm : link
Our best rotation would probably be...

Thor
deGrom
Gsellman
Lugo
Vargas

Throw the other 3 guys into the bullpen. Harvey is already there. Problem is - all three of them seem to struggle early in games. So that isn't going to work.

I still have a sliver of hope for Matz.... but that's quickly running out as well.
Cespedes took out his driver on that one  
Eric on Li : 4/24/2018 9:56 pm : link
holy crap.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 9:56 pm : link
Ces fucking CRUSHED that.

No doubter off the bat.

Tie game.
Ces Bomb!  
figgy2989 : 4/24/2018 9:56 pm : link
That ball was crushed
Way to go Yo  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 9:56 pm : link
He was sitting on a fast ball down the middle of the plate the whole way. Everyone knew that pitch was coming lol.
Jesus did he cover that one!  
Stufftherun : 4/24/2018 9:57 pm : link
Sitting dead red and pounded it!
.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 9:58 pm : link
LOL, this guy completely lost the zone.

He threw like one strike in his last 20 offerings and it was the pitch Cespedes hit about 800 feet.
Haha that pitch to Yo was a batting practice strike. No way  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 9:59 pm : link
Weaver was going to walk a third batter. Glad Yo got a hold of it. What a moon shot.
Holy shit!!  
RodneyHamp : 4/24/2018 9:59 pm : link
Did that ball land yet?????
nice to see other teams have crappy pitchers too  
Eric on Li : 4/24/2018 9:59 pm : link
will be interesting to see Harvey out of the pen.
Bruce better go on a hitting streak soon to remove the stink  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 10:05 pm : link
of him playing over Nimmo. Im sure Mickey has sufficiently iced off Nimmos hot start but still.
Oh Shit.  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 10:06 pm : link
Now that Harvey is in the pen, can we switch his name to Robin?
.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 10:06 pm : link
Matt Harvey.. (not) a starting pitcher.
Nope, Harvey sucks out of the pen too.  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 10:11 pm : link
Sigh.
Its real nice that Harvey gets to work things out in actual games  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 10:12 pm : link
instead of the minors.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 10:16 pm : link
Can we have Curtis back and send Bruce to TOR?
Hell never be an  
Stufftherun : 4/24/2018 10:17 pm : link
effective pitcher at this level if he doesnt put his ego aside and learn the true art of pitching.
RE: .  
Eric on Li : 4/24/2018 10:20 pm : link
In comment 13929479 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Can we have Curtis back and send Bruce to TOR?


3 years for Bruce continues to be such a weird decision. If you reversed the contracts for Frazier and Bruce it would make a lot more sense, it's just odd given their "salary cap" that they valued Bruce so highly.
At some point there's nothing left you can do with Harvey  
moespree : 4/24/2018 10:23 pm : link
I mean if he can't even give you an inning without giving up runs than I don't know what to say.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 10:26 pm : link
In comment 13929488 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13929479 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Can we have Curtis back and send Bruce to TOR?



3 years for Bruce continues to be such a weird decision. If you reversed the contracts for Frazier and Bruce it would make a lot more sense, it's just odd given their "salary cap" that they valued Bruce so highly.


I didn't really get it either.

I like Jay Bruce. Nice guy, easy to root for. Just don't like the player that much. Some embarrassingly bad plays in the field and he's been pitiful at the dish so far.

So much for the whole "let the best players play" bit - because Nimmo is performing and Bruce isn't.
Bullshit strike call  
Stufftherun : 4/24/2018 10:33 pm : link
.
Keith Hernandez cracks me up lol  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 10:35 pm : link
Hes the best part of Mets games.
I just dont care  
Stufftherun : 4/24/2018 10:43 pm : link
for Yos approach at the plate. The book on him is hell take takes the first pitch and its seemingly always a fastball right down the middle. He starts out in a hole and enables the pitcher to dictate the AB all too often. I wish hed be more aggressive and keep them honest by sitting on that first pitch every now and then.
Wow  
Rflairr : 4/24/2018 10:52 pm : link
A SF.
how''d Harvey do?  
madgiantscow009 : 4/24/2018 10:56 pm : link
Just missed him.
Rosario is just  
Stufftherun : 4/24/2018 10:57 pm : link
such a long way away from learning plate discipline.
RE: how''d Harvey do?  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 11:00 pm : link
In comment 13929540 madgiantscow009 said:
Quote:
Just missed him.


Came in the game and promptly gave up the lead.
RE: how''d Harvey do?  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 11:05 pm : link
In comment 13929540 madgiantscow009 said:
Quote:
Just missed him.


2 innings, 2 hits, 1 run.

All in all, not horrible for his first true relief appearance. He did strike a couple guys out.

Could have been worse.

Sewald has been fantastic. I think I've said this before - but I do think I need to give the Mets credit for nixing a deal that included him for Kipnis.

Cabrera is tearing the cover off the ball @ 2B and Sewald has been a HUGE asset out of the pen.
technically the owners nixed it after they agreed to it  
Eric on Li : 4/24/2018 11:10 pm : link
but I agree, probably caught a break on that one since it would have also blocked them from getting Frazier.

Frazier really should have been the main target from day 1, then they should have put the money they spent on Bruce towards Reed. Use the leftover money for a 1 year veteran OF like Granderson, or even Aoki. The lineup would have been light on power but if last few year's markets are any indication, trading for power corner or 1B isn't that expensive at the deadline.
It's really simple...  
ZGiants98 : 4/24/2018 11:13 pm : link
People need to stop looking at the positions on the field and start looking at the construction of the lineup. You cant invest 100+ million on a right-handed slugger who is about to start declining on a win now team and not protect him.

You lose Granderson, Duda, and Bruce... you have to replace at least some of that LH protection somewhere. The options were CO or 1B. Neither ideal. CO, you block Nimmo. 1B you block Smith. If you block Nimmo, Nimmo has THREE positions to get some playing time at and the injury history in the OF has been a joke the last few years (and that includes Nimmo). If you block Smith that's the only position he can get play so he's stuck in AAA permanently. I also think Sandy didnt want some over the hill type like Granderson. He was checking in on guys like Santana, Bruce, etc. He wanted a semi-permanent player and realized good players were going out a value in 2017-2018. He settled with Bruce. I also dont care how depressed the market was. A 3 year deal, for a perrenial 30 HR, 100 RBI guy in his prime is peanuts. With the amount of injuries we've endured over the last few years its amazing people dont at least see the see the logic.

Players are streaky. Bruce will bounce back. Guys will get injured. Nimmo will get play. I dont mind the rationale at all.

That said, Nimmo should still be getting 4 starts a week and everybody should be getting a day off. No reason they cant do that but that's on Mickey who has admitted he has the lineups filled out weeks in advance based on matchups. For some reason they dont want to rotate him in regularly yet but they should.
There is no way if we signed Granderson over Bruce  
ZGiants98 : 4/24/2018 11:15 pm : link
people would have been happy with Granderson getting play over Nimmo right now. lol. It would be literally ten times worse. People would be screaming bloody murder. If you sign a streaky 37 year old Granderson for your bench Im not sure that really solves your lefty power production problem at all and Grandy likely sucks the few times he gets play anyway (similar to Reyes). That's clearly not what Sandy was going after.
here comes the ticky tack squeeze shit and  
ZGiants98 : 4/24/2018 11:20 pm : link
dinks and dunks. That's probably game.
Huge K  
ZGiants98 : 4/24/2018 11:23 pm : link
Come on..
Pfew!  
Stufftherun : 4/24/2018 11:24 pm : link
Just what the Dr ordered!
Mikey has quickly mastered the art of saying one thing and doing  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 11:24 pm : link
another. If its accurate that lineups are completed weeks in advance and they dont stray from that, then its a big nail in the coffin that is ruining baseball for me. Im all for stats but there is also a place for the feel of the game. The Mets NEVER seem to run with the hot hand and will trot out players just because the numbers say that they should be there. Im just not interested in watching stat sheets and projections play baseball.

When you are so strict and stubborn with the game, this is what you get. I get that players can be streaky. But the entire lineup, save for Cabrera, has been mostly bad for the better part of a month. Fucking change it up for Christs sake.
Wow great job..  
ZGiants98 : 4/24/2018 11:25 pm : link
I wonder what the percentage is of a run coming in when two runners are on base with no outs. It's gotta be high.
RE: RE: how''d Harvey do?  
spike : 4/24/2018 11:28 pm : link
In comment 13929557 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13929540 madgiantscow009 said:


Quote:


Just missed him.



2 innings, 2 hits, 1 run.

All in all, not horrible for his first true relief appearance. He did strike a couple guys out.

Could have been worse.

Sewald has been fantastic. I think I've said this before - but I do think I need to give the Mets credit for nixing a deal that included him for Kipnis.

Cabrera is tearing the cover off the ball @ 2B and Sewald has been a HUGE asset out of the pen.


I hope he can be the closer eventually
Ugh  
giantsFC : 4/24/2018 11:31 pm : link
Todd Frazier let me down there
I still like our pen...  
ZGiants98 : 4/24/2018 11:31 pm : link
I know Ramos and Blevins struggled the other night but Gsellman, ewald, and Lugo have all been huge. Familia, even with the blown save, has been mostly great. Swarzak returning is going to make it even better.

Vargas isnt terrific but he should settle things down a bit in the rotation. Matz and Wheeler will be up and down but thats pretty much what you're going to get from most backend guys.

The bench is great.

We just need our big hitters to start hitting in the lineup and we need to resolve the gaping hole we have at catcher before too long.
haha...  
ZGiants98 : 4/24/2018 11:32 pm : link
BRUCE!!!
Wait  
ZGiants98 : 4/24/2018 11:33 pm : link
wtf is this?
Jay Bruce...FTW  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 11:34 pm : link
I just cant put my finger on the pulse of this team lol. Such a frustrating team. And then this. Lets close this out please?
Now this is the type of shit  
moespree : 4/24/2018 11:35 pm : link
That will ruin baseball.
And its complete bullshit that you can waste your review and then  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 11:35 pm : link
talk the umpires into doing a crew review. Unbelievable.
I mean a video review  
moespree : 4/24/2018 11:36 pm : link
To see if the guy touched all the bases on his homerun trot? Really? And this commissioner is supposedly worried about length of games. Sure.
Even that blatantly obvious review took longer than the Wilmer  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 11:38 pm : link
Flores sliding into home review that SNY show 100 replays of and still couldnt figure it out. And that Flores review took them three seconds.
,  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 11:42 pm : link
LOL, I called the Bruce HR 3 seconds before it happened in a text message. Good stuff.

This would be a huge win. Familia has his plus stuff tonight.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 11:42 pm : link
Matheny is a fucking jerkoff, though. Are you kidding me with that challenge?
Far from pretty  
Stufftherun : 4/24/2018 11:43 pm : link
but got it done.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/24/2018 11:44 pm : link
That's what Jeurys Familia does when he's on.

Absolutely disgusting.
I think this game shaved a year off my life.  
PhiPsi125 : 4/24/2018 11:45 pm : link
I need a break.
Nice job!  
Pete in MD : 4/24/2018 11:47 pm : link
That game just never felt like it would be a W but they fought it out.

LGM!
Good teams win ugly  
spike : 4/24/2018 11:54 pm : link
just keep collecting the W's.

Gonna be a dogfight for NL East this season between Phils, Braves, Nats and the Mets
If Bruce and Cespedes start heating up  
ZGiants98 : 4/25/2018 12:07 am : link
obviously that would be huge for us.

While I would never want to take on his contract in a million years, I wonder how much of Votto's deal the Reds would eat to get out of it.

Having the whole band back together (Frazier, Votto, Bruce) would be pretty fucking cool down the stretch and make our lineup lethal. Heck, still add Realmuto too!
:)  
ZGiants98 : 4/25/2018 12:09 am : link
Conforto
Votto
Cespedes
Bruce
Frazier
Cabrera
Realmuto
Rosario
Great win! Down early on the road and battled back  
jpkmets : 4/25/2018 4:39 am : link
Harvey threw 94 and got as many swinging strikes (3) in two innings as Wheeler did in 4. Got touched for a run, but hoping against hope he can find himself in the pen, because I haven't seen much from Wheeler other than that he can beat the Marlins.

Quietly, the Nats are digging themselves a substantial hole. Not only 8 games back in the loss column, but the division is just a lot better than expected, so the three teams ahead of them aren't pushovers.

Really good to see Bruce get a few knocks including the game winning HR. He was lost.

Very odd start for Ces. Hitting .197 overall -- hitting 5/45 on the road

Overall OPS .634 and a road OPS of .434, and yet he is 2nd in the NL with RBI (21 in 21 games) because:

None on: hitting .125 with a .410 OPS (.160/.250)
Runners on: hitting .282 with a .904 OPS (.364/.568)
RISP: hitting .375 (9-24) with a 1.131 OPS (.464/.667)
RISP 2-Out: hitting .600 (6-10) with a 1.836 OPS (.636/1.200)

I know RBI isn't a beloved stat anymore -- but in this case, it encapsulates the story -- Ces is paid to be a run producer, and that's what he's doing.

Really excellent win though. Hopefully Matz can rock and roll tonight and then turn the rotation back over to the top tomorrow.
RE: .  
jpkmets : 4/25/2018 4:43 am : link
In comment 13929616 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
That's what Jeurys Familia does when he's on.

Absolutely disgusting.


He's been excellent this year overall. Huge bounce back from the clot surgery.

1.08 WHIP and 17 K in 13 innings. Sure, he contributed to a couple of melt-down losses, but overall he's been a top-flight closer.
RE: RE: RE: .  
Rory : 4/25/2018 8:08 am : link
In comment 13929499 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13929488 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 13929479 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Can we have Curtis back and send Bruce to TOR?



3 years for Bruce continues to be such a weird decision. If you reversed the contracts for Frazier and Bruce it would make a lot more sense, it's just odd given their "salary cap" that they valued Bruce so highly.



I didn't really get it either.

I like Jay Bruce. Nice guy, easy to root for. Just don't like the player that much. Some embarrassingly bad plays in the field and he's been pitiful at the dish so far.

So much for the whole "let the best players play" bit - because Nimmo is performing and Bruce isn't.


wait who hit the game running HR again? lol

Bruce is playing through a Lisfranc injury/fracture, lets cut him some slack. He can be a goddam force when he gets hot

I know from personal experience that you double take every step you make when dealing with it.

Caught the recap this morning, great win. LGM!
winning *  
Rory : 4/25/2018 8:09 am : link
*
Just a thought but how many blown saves  
bhill410 : 4/25/2018 10:06 am : link
Are to be expected with elite closers. To me 2 in a month is simply too much.
RE: Just a thought but how many blown saves  
Eric on Li : 4/25/2018 10:59 am : link
In comment 13930041 bhill410 said:
Quote:
Are to be expected with elite closers. To me 2 in a month is simply too much.


In his 3 full seasons as a met Familia has blown 5 saves each season, pitching ~77 innings in each season. So 2 blown saves in 13 innings is at least 1 more than his normal however he has also pitched a lot more than normal - he's on pace for 100 innings.

he also hasn't given up a home run yet this season - which to me is a big deal. His stuff moves so much and his control isn't pinpoint so he is always going to allow some walks and his sinker generates a ton of ground balls - some of which are going to get through. As long as he isn't giving up homers though he's as good of a reliever as there is in the game. If someone with more range was at 2B a couple nights ago they probably turn a DP on the ground ball triple. I wouldn't lose sight of the fact that both of his blown saves involved him stepping into a mess created by the guys in front of him.
RE: Just a thought but how many blown saves  
Rory : 4/25/2018 11:02 am : link
In comment 13930041 bhill410 said:
Quote:
Are to be expected with elite closers. To me 2 in a month is simply too much.


Shouldn't you take in account of the 11 SVO and past inherited runners.

Also isn't Jansen a "Elite" closer, he's 3 for 5

after years of Parnell, Mejia, Beato...I appreciate a guy like Familia
RE: Just a thought but how many blown saves  
arcarsenal : 4/25/2018 11:33 am : link
In comment 13930041 bhill410 said:
Quote:
Are to be expected with elite closers. To me 2 in a month is simply too much.


If he blew 2 saves a month, he'd be blowing 12 saves a season. He hasn't even hit half that number.

Callaway simply tried to get too much out of him on Saturday. He pitched the night before that and then he was asked to get a 4 out save the next day after being ridden very hard in the early going.

Perhaps he just ran out of steam. It happens. Callaway has to get a better feel for how far he can push each of his relievers. This was a talking point during the broadcast last night.

We probably won't see him being asked to get inning+ saves the day after he just pitched. Maybe later in the season when perhaps the stakes are higher - but not in April.

Can you guys give me some names of guys you'd take over him? It's like no one has any context here. Several teams have closer carousels because no one can finish a game. Milwaukee blew 6 in a row a couple weeks ago with Knebel out.

2008 Brad Lidge seasons are extremely rare. If you use the same guy to close games all year, he's gonna blow a few.

Funny enough - the very season after Lidge went 41/41 with a sub-2 ERA, he posted a 7.41 ERA.
They  
DanMetroMan : 4/25/2018 11:35 am : link
are in first place so hard to complain but Callaway's vaunted "new bullpen usage" has simply not been reality. Not really clear why?
RE: They  
Rory : 4/25/2018 11:57 am : link
In comment 13930394 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
are in first place so hard to complain but Callaway's vaunted "new bullpen usage" has simply not been reality. Not really clear why?


Dont look now Dan, Phillies are breathing down Mets neck
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
PhiPsi125 : 4/25/2018 12:54 pm : link
In comment 13929774 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 13929499 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 13929488 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 13929479 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Can we have Curtis back and send Bruce to TOR?



3 years for Bruce continues to be such a weird decision. If you reversed the contracts for Frazier and Bruce it would make a lot more sense, it's just odd given their "salary cap" that they valued Bruce so highly.



I didn't really get it either.

I like Jay Bruce. Nice guy, easy to root for. Just don't like the player that much. Some embarrassingly bad plays in the field and he's been pitiful at the dish so far.

So much for the whole "let the best players play" bit - because Nimmo is performing and Bruce isn't.



wait who hit the game running HR again? lol

Bruce is playing through a Lisfranc injury/fracture, lets cut him some slack. He can be a goddam force when he gets hot

I know from personal experience that you double take every step you make when dealing with it.

Caught the recap this morning, great win. LGM!


So Id Bruce is injured (and it clearly affecting his production) why not give him more rest and use the hot player more?

Your cut him some slack because hes hurt excuse doesnt make much sense when we have (better) options.
Familia - Id love to know how many blown saves or poor outings  
PhiPsi125 : 4/25/2018 12:57 pm : link
are due to entering games in the middle of innings or with men on base...in comparison to starting with a clean inning. I could be wrong, but I dont think he does well having to come in with men on base.
RE: Familia - Id love to know how many blown saves or poor outings  
Eric on Li : 4/25/2018 1:22 pm : link
In comment 13930694 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
are due to entering games in the middle of innings or with men on base...in comparison to starting with a clean inning. I could be wrong, but I dont think he does well having to come in with men on base.


I think he's actually been pretty good at getting out of seemingly tough situations. I think his problem is that he's not an elite strikeout pitcher yet bc he throws hard that leads to some hard contact and the defense behind him has always had holes. I feel like a lot of his blown saves combined a well placed hit with one of his inopportune walks.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
Rory : 4/25/2018 3:27 pm : link
In comment 13930679 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13929774 Rory said:


Quote:


In comment 13929499 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 13929488 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 13929479 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Can we have Curtis back and send Bruce to TOR?



3 years for Bruce continues to be such a weird decision. If you reversed the contracts for Frazier and Bruce it would make a lot more sense, it's just odd given their "salary cap" that they valued Bruce so highly.



I didn't really get it either.

I like Jay Bruce. Nice guy, easy to root for. Just don't like the player that much. Some embarrassingly bad plays in the field and he's been pitiful at the dish so far.

So much for the whole "let the best players play" bit - because Nimmo is performing and Bruce isn't.



wait who hit the game running HR again? lol

Bruce is playing through a Lisfranc injury/fracture, lets cut him some slack. He can be a goddam force when he gets hot

I know from personal experience that you double take every step you make when dealing with it.

Caught the recap this morning, great win. LGM!



So Id Bruce is injured (and it clearly affecting his production) why not give him more rest and use the hot player more?

Your cut him some slack because hes hurt excuse doesnt make much sense when we have (better) options.


I agree, let him sit or start the transition to 1b. Remember though that better option wasn't expected when he was signed. So a 3 year deal seemed like a bargain at the right time

Also I don't like the fair weather fan bullshit I read on this board like all of a sudden he's washed up and a mistake. I've played injured before, you're a fucking shell of yourself, your timing is off and you're feeling the effects of the pain killers. But when you're good, you're dam good and fans forget that.
meant to type "hot player"  
Rory : 4/25/2018 3:28 pm : link
*
Found something earlier today from a few years back.  
GiantFilthy : 4/25/2018 3:34 pm : link
Quote:
Chipper Jones ✔ @RealCJ10
Boy I'm glad I retired! Would not wanna face Harvey and Wheeler 5 or 6 times a year for the next 10yrs.
I don't have facts to support this  
pjcas18 : 4/25/2018 3:39 pm : link
just visual observation, but Familia seems to struggle against patient hitters who can catch up to heat. As opposed to someone like deGrom or Thor who has off-speed pitches in the strike zone, it seems like Familia's are usually out of ths strike zone.

When he doesn't get batters to chase the splitter or slider out of the zone is when he starts to seem like he loses confidence and "nibbles".

If he comes in and overpowers people right away or throws the splitter or slider close enough to elicit a swing and miss and gets ahead he's close to unhittable.

But...when he cannot blow the fastball by someone and they wait out the slider or splitter then they have a chance to get ahead or work a walk.

not saying it's every hitter who is capable of this, but it happens.

Also, agree not many closers I'd take ahead of him. maybe Kimbrel, maybe that guy in Seattle looks like he's pitching in a video game (Edwin Diaz?), maybe Chapman though he's got similar issues as Familia IMO. Not sure who else, Davis?

but that doesn't mean he's beyond reproach.

As a closer he's expected to close every game successfully, it's a high stress job.


Well, you are going to get that fair-weather fan BS with any fanbase.  
PhiPsi125 : 4/25/2018 3:48 pm : link
All players can be streaky...Bruce and Cespedes take it to another level. You set a MLB record by striking out 37 times in 20 games and you sport a sub .200 BA, you deserve to be criticized. But I think that has been tamed by Cespedes' clutchness in a few games. But Yo needs to fix something. Last night he was lucky...that pitch was an absolute cookie.

I actually like Bruce. Easy guy to root for and he can get hot as hell at some point. I don't recall anyone saying that he's "washed up" or a "mistake". But it's worse when he's ice cold because he's horrible in the field to. So he's not just losing games with his bat, but also with his fielding. That being said, I think the issue is more with the manager. He makes the decisions to keep trotting these players out there. There's absolutely zero reason to not sit him for a couple of games. I'm not saying he needs to lose his job but there was no reason for Nimmo/Lagares to rot on the bench with their hot start.

RE: Well, you are going to get that fair-weather fan BS with any fanbase.  
Rory : 4/25/2018 5:02 pm : link
In comment 13931144 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
All players can be streaky...Bruce and Cespedes take it to another level. You set a MLB record by striking out 37 times in 20 games and you sport a sub .200 BA, you deserve to be criticized. But I think that has been tamed by Cespedes' clutchness in a few games. But Yo needs to fix something. Last night he was lucky...that pitch was an absolute cookie.

I actually like Bruce. Easy guy to root for and he can get hot as hell at some point. I don't recall anyone saying that he's "washed up" or a "mistake". But it's worse when he's ice cold because he's horrible in the field to. So he's not just losing games with his bat, but also with his fielding. That being said, I think the issue is more with the manager. He makes the decisions to keep trotting these players out there. There's absolutely zero reason to not sit him for a couple of games. I'm not saying he needs to lose his job but there was no reason for Nimmo/Lagares to rot on the bench with their hot start.


Then sit him, let him heal, all for that. Just pointing out what a injury like that can do.

I get what you're saying but you have to assume there is pressure from the FO to play their money players.
and lets not act like the signing  
Rory : 4/25/2018 5:03 pm : link
all of a sudden is a questionable decision...which is what I read earlier
Got it. I agree with everything you said.  
PhiPsi125 : 4/25/2018 5:07 pm : link
.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/25/2018 5:34 pm : link
Oy vey.. now you're a fair weather fan if you don't love Jay Bruce the player?

HR last night or not (and come on... he was sitting dead red on a guy who missed the strike zone like 15x in a row before that) he's not off to a very good start. He's hobbling around on a bad foot, and we have a young guy in Nimmo who seems to do nothing but produce and give tough AB's every time he gets a shot.

He's bad defensively... two times already he's made laughably poor reads on fly balls in RF that cost us. He's not getting on base. He's on pace to strike out like 150x.

He shouldn't exactly be immune to criticism if he's not playing well.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/25/2018 5:35 pm : link
Sorry, I'm confusing Cespedes' HR and Bruce's.

In any event.... the rest of what I said stands.

If he's so hurt that he can't perform up to par, then he should sit. We have a capable player on the bench behind him. The foot injury shouldn't be an excuse.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/25/2018 5:43 pm : link
Anyway - it's a new day. Let's keep rolling here.

NYM:

1. Michael Conforto (L) CF
2. Yoenis Cespedes (R) LF
3. Jay Bruce (L) RF
4. Todd Frazier (R) 3B
5. Wilmer Flores (R) 2B
6. Adrian Gonzalez (L) 1B
7. Jose Lobaton (S) C
8. Steven Matz (R) P
9. Amed Rosario (R) SS


StL:

1. Tommy Pham (R) CF
2. Dexter Fowler (S) RF
3. Jose Martinez (R) 1B
4. Marcell Ozuna (R) LF
5. Yadier Molina (R) C
6. Paul DeJong (R) SS
7. Jedd Gyorko (R) 3B
8. Kolten Wong (L) 2B
9. Michael Wacha (R) P
RE: .  
Rory : 4/26/2018 2:36 pm : link
In comment 13931405 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Anyway - it's a new day. Let's keep rolling here.

NYM:

1. Michael Conforto (L) CF
2. Yoenis Cespedes (R) LF
3. Jay Bruce (L) RF
4. Todd Frazier (R) 3B
5. Wilmer Flores (R) 2B
6. Adrian Gonzalez (L) 1B
7. Jose Lobaton (S) C
8. Steven Matz (R) P
9. Amed Rosario (R) SS

StL:

1. Tommy Pham (R) CF
2. Dexter Fowler (S) RF
3. Jose Martinez (R) 1B
4. Marcell Ozuna (R) LF
5. Yadier Molina (R) C
6. Paul DeJong (R) SS
7. Jedd Gyorko (R) 3B
8. Kolten Wong (L) 2B
9. Michael Wacha (R) P


can we skip that day (that day wasn't good)
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