Before the draft started you could add Gallery and Roethlisberger. Comments about Big Ben actually were actually not too different that what we're hearing about Allen this year.
There was a very heavy Kerry Collins protectionist side
The preponderance of BBI and the media was in Robert Gallery - the “franchise LT tackle for 10 yrs- cant miss” prospect
I’d say this was roughly equivalent to the support today to keep Eli draft Barkley group today
There was some who wanted Sean Taylor as the next great defensive player and our new “LT”. safeties were really big at this point in NFL.
I’d say this was roughly the equivalent of the support to draft Chubb crew now.
Then there was the “Draft QB”. Of this group, most wanted Eli and some wanted to trade down and draft Ben. No one wanted Rivers.
IMO this is roughly the equivalent of todays BBI support for Eli= Rosen, Ben= Darnold and Rivers=Allen.
The people who were OK with Ben with were mostly the non-QB people who were OK with a Ben trade down scenario but not at 4. There wasnt a lot of people “all in” on Ben. Much like I see that with Darnold. Not a lot of Get Darnold at all costs posts but some non-QB but Im OK with Darnold at 2. (Notice you dont see anyone arguing to trade Up for Darnold).
There is quite a strong Rosen lobby, including myself and Milton and others.
There was very little support for drafting Larry Fitzgerald. Most thought he was amazing but we couldn’t or shouldnt grab him due to position.
IMO this is equivalent to the support today for Nelson.
Looked like a monster but Ben seems to be a possibility. Heard about the Eli stuff the day before the draft, people speculating SD would take him even though he didn't want to go there.
many people debated trading back and taking Roethlisberger. There was a respect for Manning, but the thought that the Chargers would be dangling him over our head was pretty unmistakable. I think the consensus was that Robert Gallery was the most 'can't miss' guy in the draft. If there was one player that was the BBI darling of the pre-2004 Draft, it was Gallery.
Nearly all of the mock drafts then had us taking Gallery.
I asked each of the players who the Giants were taking (about 12 guys) and they all said Gallery and definately no QB.
When the Rivers pick at 4 was announced there was virtual silence except for my leaping and screaming as I knew the trade was coming.
Then, the trade was announced and it was crazy. people yelling and screaming at the TVs. Terribly upset at the cost of the trade.
I saw several people rip their Giants jerseys off of their backs and throw in the garbage.
They announced Eli was coming to Stadium to receive his jersey and
The place really cleared out after that.
By the time Eli arrived, he did a brief interview with Sid of WFan and received a hat and his #10 jersey, there was only a few hundred people out on the field of Giants Stadium to see this.
Fortunately I was there as I was a vehement Eli at all costs person.
I have a picture of the jersey ceremony but I dont know how to upload a picture on here.
They had Kerry Collins, who many thought was good enough with the right roster around him. Kinda similar too the Eli situation now, though Collins was much younger and without Eli's resume. I remember the most noise being for drafting either Gallery, whom was being talked about as the can't miss pick in the entire draft, and Sean Taylor, who was seen as purely BPA.
For those who wanted a QB, I don't remember Eli being mentioned much as he was the clear #1. Big Ben was mentioned a lot, but with a trade down. Don't remember many wanting Rivers.
If you look at that year, the Gmen decided to pass on a BPA approach (Sean Taylor) for an opportunity at a franchise QB. Similar to the Barkley situation now, IMO
There is just too much information for way too many wanna be's.
Agreed.
Yes, everyone has more access to info these days (highlight videos, social media, more media sources) but aside from that, its still the same ol BBI.
To some degree, yes. But because we didn't have access to those things, the discussion was a little more nuanced and not so black and white, because everybody was just basing things off of their opinion. Still the same as now, but now people have endless metrics/statistics/highlights that entrench them in their stance and make it harder to have open dialog on the subject.
Saw Louis Reddick talking about the 04’ draft the other day, he was in the front office in Washington and he basically said they changed their pick from Kellen Winslow Jr to Sean Taylor the night before the draft after having Winslow to their spot throughout the draft process
Saw Louis Reddick talking about the 04’ draft the other day, he was in the front office in Washington and he basically said they changed their pick from Kellen Winslow Jr to Sean Taylor the night before the draft after having Winslow to their spot throughout the draft process
They didn’t go w the “expert” trend and pick gallery
Still hope they stick w qb this year
They couldn't pick Gallery.. he was gone before our pick.. I still think we gt lucky there.. if he would've still been there at number 4 we probably pick him..
In 2004 the team needed a new QB, Kerry Collins had gone about as far as he could, and there was no one behind him. Most on BBI seemed to be in agreement that a QB had to be the pick.
Not so in 2018. This year, team brass believes Eli has a few good years left in him, and has to decide if they want to try to make another run with him, or start the transition to the next QB knowing that it will probably be a few years away before being in a position to make another SB run.
Consequently, there is a greater divide on BBI this year. Does the team:
1. Go QB of the future
2. Grab the stud RB and go for another run with Eli
3. Trade back to pick up a ton of draft collateral and continue with the rebuild for the future
I think we all can agree that Thursday can't come fast enough
in 2004, despite people being supporters of keeping Collins and building a team around him, nobody was called a "Collins apologist" or "Pro Collins", or a "Collins fanboy".
that nobody here has any idea what the Giants will do in the draft, or how any of these players will turn out, despite the certainty with which they state their opinion.
that nobody here has any idea what the Giants will do in the draft, or how any of these players will turn out, despite the certainty with which they state their opinion.
Read Milton’s post
Blogger : Milton : 4/6 3:10 PM
First of all, I hate Losman, so he's not an option, in my mind.
As for Rivers, the more I read about the guy the more I don't understand why he shouldn't be considered with the other two. Of the three, the only one with a so-called Meadowlands arm is Roethlisberger. And while Roethlisberger has the strongest arm of the three and is the most athletic, all three seem to have issues with their ability to throw the longball, so to knock Rivers in comparison to the others because of his lack of arm strength doesn't seem to be fair. All three of them throw the intermediate stuff with appropriate velocity and accuracy. While Roethlisberger has the best speed of the three, all three are considered mobile in the pocket.
Rivers and Manning have the most experience and are the most likely to be able to lead the team as a rookie. Rivers and Manning both have great smarts and leadership ability. Roethlisberger is the toughest to bring down and the most likely to make something out of nothing. I like all three of them and have them rated 1. Manning, 2. Roethlisberger, 3. Rivers; but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Rivers outperform the other two.
In 2004 the team needed a new QB, Kerry Collins had gone about as far as he could, and there was no one behind him. Most on BBI seemed to be in agreement that a QB had to be the pick.
Not so in 2018. This year, team brass believes Eli has a few good years left in him, and has to decide if they want to try to make another run with him, or start the transition to the next QB knowing that it will probably be a few years away before being in a position to make another SB run.
Consequently, there is a greater divide on BBI this year. Does the team:
1. Go QB of the future
2. Grab the stud RB and go for another run with Eli
3. Trade back to pick up a ton of draft collateral and continue with the rebuild for the future
I think we all can agree that Thursday can't come fast enough
BBI was definately not in agreement as the post I put up definately proves. And it certainly wasnt on QB. It was very divided. The majority opinion was Gallery and stick with Collins for another run.
New Coach hire Coughlin didn’t want Collins so before they signed Â
In 2004 the team needed a new QB, Kerry Collins had gone about as far as he could, and there was no one behind him. Most on BBI seemed to be in agreement that a QB had to be the pick.
Not so in 2018. This year, team brass believes Eli has a few good years left in him, and has to decide if they want to try to make another run with him, or start the transition to the next QB knowing that it will probably be a few years away before being in a position to make another SB run.
Consequently, there is a greater divide on BBI this year. Does the team:
1. Go QB of the future
2. Grab the stud RB and go for another run with Eli
3. Trade back to pick up a ton of draft collateral and continue with the rebuild for the future
I think we all can agree that Thursday can't come fast enough
BBI was definately not in agreement as the post I put up definately proves. And it certainly wasnt on QB. It was very divided. The majority opinion was Gallery and stick with Collins for another run.
Gallery? Really? Most wanted a QB with a preference for Eli. The general feeling was that Eli would be gone by #4, and that Big Ben should therefore be the pick. Gloveone then started the site with great excitement with his insider info about a possible trade to get Eli. 2004 was nothing like the 2018, and certainly wasn't as ugly. At times, 2018 has made me miss some of the old political threads.
RE: New Coach hire Coughlin didn’t want Collins so before they signed Â
I don't see what Milton's post has to do with what I posted. He liked Manning, Big Ben and Rivers. All three turned out to be very good NFL QBs. The consensus was that all three would be drafted in the top 10 and all have good NFL careers.
I am not trying to be difficult, but I have no idea what you are trying to say.
I don't see what Milton's post has to do with what I posted. He liked Manning, Big Ben and Rivers. All three turned out to be very good NFL QBs. The consensus was that all three would be drafted in the top 10 and all have good NFL careers.
I am not trying to be difficult, but I have no idea what you are trying to say.
You said no one knows despite them saying it with conviction.
I dont fully believe that. I think Milton nailed it. Including Losman. Even some of their strengths and perceived weaknesses then. There definately wasnt a consensus then on Rivers having a good career.
In 2004 the team needed a new QB, Kerry Collins had gone about as far as he could, and there was no one behind him. Most on BBI seemed to be in agreement that a QB had to be the pick.
You're remembering it only in the final days before the draft, after glove1 (who I believe was part of Tom Condon's team) appeared and made it clear that the Giants were targeting Eli. Prior to that it was an evolving process that began with the overwhelming majority of BBI expecting Collins to get an extension because of the $7M salary he was due. When free agency began with no contract extension in sight, more and more people slowly came around, but there was still a large percentage that were stubborn, including some of them the most respected posters (I recall SOTI finally admitting that the Giants might draft a QB, but that they certainly wouldn't trade up for one). Read through the link that twostep provided above and you can see what the temperature was two weeks prior to the draft (and before glove1's arrival). Here's one line from it...
Quote:
The outcome for KC will be the most anticipated event here : Big Blue '56 : 4/6 3:31 PM
Milton vs the majority of BBI....
You forgot gallery
Also, people were beating the drum that manning wouldn't be the #1 quarterback if his name was Eli smith.
Taylor and Fitz? No. It was more Gallery vs Eli/Ben
Before the draft started you could add Gallery and Roethlisberger. Comments about Big Ben actually were actually not too different that what we're hearing about Allen this year.
Collins just needs some blocking and we will be fine, no need to go get a QB now.
Agreed.
BTW- Milton is the man...
April 2004 on BBI - ( New Window )
The preponderance of BBI and the media was in Robert Gallery - the “franchise LT tackle for 10 yrs- cant miss” prospect
I’d say this was roughly equivalent to the support today to keep Eli draft Barkley group today
There was some who wanted Sean Taylor as the next great defensive player and our new “LT”. safeties were really big at this point in NFL.
I’d say this was roughly the equivalent of the support to draft Chubb crew now.
Then there was the “Draft QB”. Of this group, most wanted Eli and some wanted to trade down and draft Ben. No one wanted Rivers.
IMO this is roughly the equivalent of todays BBI support for Eli= Rosen, Ben= Darnold and Rivers=Allen.
The people who were OK with Ben with were mostly the non-QB people who were OK with a Ben trade down scenario but not at 4. There wasnt a lot of people “all in” on Ben. Much like I see that with Darnold. Not a lot of Get Darnold at all costs posts but some non-QB but Im OK with Darnold at 2. (Notice you dont see anyone arguing to trade Up for Darnold).
There is quite a strong Rosen lobby, including myself and Milton and others.
There was very little support for drafting Larry Fitzgerald. Most thought he was amazing but we couldn’t or shouldnt grab him due to position.
IMO this is equivalent to the support today for Nelson.
Quote:
There is just too much information for way too many wanna be's.
Agreed.
Yes, everyone has more access to info these days (highlight videos, social media, more media sources) but aside from that, its still the same ol BBI.
Nearly all of the mock drafts then had us taking Gallery.
I asked each of the players who the Giants were taking (about 12 guys) and they all said Gallery and definately no QB.
When the Rivers pick at 4 was announced there was virtual silence except for my leaping and screaming as I knew the trade was coming.
Then, the trade was announced and it was crazy. people yelling and screaming at the TVs. Terribly upset at the cost of the trade.
I saw several people rip their Giants jerseys off of their backs and throw in the garbage.
They announced Eli was coming to Stadium to receive his jersey and
The place really cleared out after that.
By the time Eli arrived, he did a brief interview with Sid of WFan and received a hat and his #10 jersey, there was only a few hundred people out on the field of Giants Stadium to see this.
Fortunately I was there as I was a vehement Eli at all costs person.
I have a picture of the jersey ceremony but I dont know how to upload a picture on here.
They had Kerry Collins, who many thought was good enough with the right roster around him. Kinda similar too the Eli situation now, though Collins was much younger and without Eli's resume. I remember the most noise being for drafting either Gallery, whom was being talked about as the can't miss pick in the entire draft, and Sean Taylor, who was seen as purely BPA.
For those who wanted a QB, I don't remember Eli being mentioned much as he was the clear #1. Big Ben was mentioned a lot, but with a trade down. Don't remember many wanting Rivers.
If you look at that year, the Gmen decided to pass on a BPA approach (Sean Taylor) for an opportunity at a franchise QB. Similar to the Barkley situation now, IMO
Quote:
In comment 13929813 PaulN said:
Quote:
There is just too much information for way too many wanna be's.
Agreed.
Yes, everyone has more access to info these days (highlight videos, social media, more media sources) but aside from that, its still the same ol BBI.
To some degree, yes. But because we didn't have access to those things, the discussion was a little more nuanced and not so black and white, because everybody was just basing things off of their opinion. Still the same as now, but now people have endless metrics/statistics/highlights that entrench them in their stance and make it harder to have open dialog on the subject.
Saw Louis Reddick talking about the 04’ draft the other day, he was in the front office in Washington and he basically said they changed their pick from Kellen Winslow Jr to Sean Taylor the night before the draft after having Winslow to their spot throughout the draft process
Saw Louis Reddick talking about the 04’ draft the other day, he was in the front office in Washington and he basically said they changed their pick from Kellen Winslow Jr to Sean Taylor the night before the draft after having Winslow to their spot throughout the draft process
I also wanted Taylor.
Still hope they stick w qb this year
Still hope they stick w qb this year
They couldn't pick Gallery.. he was gone before our pick.. I still think we gt lucky there.. if he would've still been there at number 4 we probably pick him..
Not so in 2018. This year, team brass believes Eli has a few good years left in him, and has to decide if they want to try to make another run with him, or start the transition to the next QB knowing that it will probably be a few years away before being in a position to make another SB run.
Consequently, there is a greater divide on BBI this year. Does the team:
1. Go QB of the future
2. Grab the stud RB and go for another run with Eli
3. Trade back to pick up a ton of draft collateral and continue with the rebuild for the future
I think we all can agree that Thursday can't come fast enough
Read Milton’s post
Blogger : Milton : 4/6 3:10 PM
First of all, I hate Losman, so he's not an option, in my mind.
As for Rivers, the more I read about the guy the more I don't understand why he shouldn't be considered with the other two. Of the three, the only one with a so-called Meadowlands arm is Roethlisberger. And while Roethlisberger has the strongest arm of the three and is the most athletic, all three seem to have issues with their ability to throw the longball, so to knock Rivers in comparison to the others because of his lack of arm strength doesn't seem to be fair. All three of them throw the intermediate stuff with appropriate velocity and accuracy. While Roethlisberger has the best speed of the three, all three are considered mobile in the pocket.
Rivers and Manning have the most experience and are the most likely to be able to lead the team as a rookie. Rivers and Manning both have great smarts and leadership ability. Roethlisberger is the toughest to bring down and the most likely to make something out of nothing. I like all three of them and have them rated 1. Manning, 2. Roethlisberger, 3. Rivers; but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Rivers outperform the other two.
Not so in 2018. This year, team brass believes Eli has a few good years left in him, and has to decide if they want to try to make another run with him, or start the transition to the next QB knowing that it will probably be a few years away before being in a position to make another SB run.
Consequently, there is a greater divide on BBI this year. Does the team:
1. Go QB of the future
2. Grab the stud RB and go for another run with Eli
3. Trade back to pick up a ton of draft collateral and continue with the rebuild for the future
I think we all can agree that Thursday can't come fast enough
BBI was definately not in agreement as the post I put up definately proves. And it certainly wasnt on QB. It was very divided. The majority opinion was Gallery and stick with Collins for another run.
I don’t remember when Warner signed but I think it was before the draft. If not, Accorsi would have had no option at all except to pick a QB.
Quote:
In 2004 the team needed a new QB, Kerry Collins had gone about as far as he could, and there was no one behind him. Most on BBI seemed to be in agreement that a QB had to be the pick.
Not so in 2018. This year, team brass believes Eli has a few good years left in him, and has to decide if they want to try to make another run with him, or start the transition to the next QB knowing that it will probably be a few years away before being in a position to make another SB run.
Consequently, there is a greater divide on BBI this year. Does the team:
1. Go QB of the future
2. Grab the stud RB and go for another run with Eli
3. Trade back to pick up a ton of draft collateral and continue with the rebuild for the future
I think we all can agree that Thursday can't come fast enough
BBI was definately not in agreement as the post I put up definately proves. And it certainly wasnt on QB. It was very divided. The majority opinion was Gallery and stick with Collins for another run.
I don’t remember when Warner signed but I think it was before the draft. If not, Accorsi would have had no option at all except to pick a QB.
That's not exactly true, Collins walked into Accorsi's office and demanded to be traded after they drafted Eli.
I am not trying to be difficult, but I have no idea what you are trying to say.
I am not trying to be difficult, but I have no idea what you are trying to say.
You said no one knows despite them saying it with conviction.
I dont fully believe that. I think Milton nailed it. Including Losman. Even some of their strengths and perceived weaknesses then. There definately wasnt a consensus then on Rivers having a good career.
Its pretty impressive.
Milton vs the majority of BBI....