First of all, I think Rosen should be the guy. I understand the injury concern, but outside of the concussions, he has nothing chronic. All minor injuries. You can't dismiss the concussions, but the QB is the most protected player in the NFL and I'd guess a lot of the QB's have had similar issues, just not documented in all cases.
Rosen has all of the physical tools and he knows the game the best. The questions about his personality and all the BS outside of football is just that...BS. So because he comes from a well to do family, he doesn't have the same hunger to compete? GTFO with that. The only red flag on this kid is the injury history and to me, its worth the gamble.
Having said all of that, the transition is easy...
The hope is that Eli has a really good year and we have success. I don't think this is out of the realm of possibility. If that's the case, Rosen gets a red shirt season and takes over going into next year. If Eli has a good year and we tell him that Rosen is the new starting QB. Maybe there is a chance Eli will accept a trade, but most likely, we will waive Eli. It's always better to let a guy go a year too soon than a year too late. This scenario would be ideal because we'd have a good season, Rosen gets a year to adjust to the NFL and maybe we can get a mid round pick for Eli(doubtful). It also gives us another offseason to sure up the line for a young QB.
If Eli and/or the team struggles, as soon as we are out of contention, Rosen takes over and we release Eli in the offseason. See Warner to Eli.
Then we get to hear Rosen to Beckham for the next 10 years. This should be the plan, IMO.
its all but a fools errand to think he can play at a super bowl level for multiple years
take rosen with the understanding its likely eli's last year where you can release him and save 17m on the cap to pay beckham/collins
if they tailspin the first 7 games of the year, use the bye to get rosen ready and hand over the reigns then
I'm of the belief it's going to take another to solidify the OL this draft and next year. Even if we draft a couple of OL this year, it's going to take a year for them to learn and for the OL to play really well. I'd rather not start a rookie QB under those conditions.
Still saying Sam or Saquon at 2... Been watching the “top guys” tape’s... Chubb’s tape is so impressive he may make me change my mind day of... he can be the next elite edge guy, think Miller, Mack, Bosa... he is the real deal... but I’m still saying Sam or Saquon as of right now
If we are competitive, yes
We're talking bigger,faster and harder hitting players in a league that actually does have defenses, unlike the Pac 12.
Still saying Sam or Saquon at 2... Been watching the “top guys” tape’s... Chubb’s tape is so impressive he may make me change my mind day of... he can be the next elite edge guy, think Miller, Mack, Bosa... he is the real deal... but I’m still saying Sam or Saquon as of right now
If we are picking in the top ten, they will make the switch
Don’t worry, if we draft Rosen it will be more Webb to Beckham calls as Rosen will play about half of each season if we are lucky. Sam Bradford 2.0
agreed...Rosen is ready now, no good reason to continue to roll out Eli if Rosen is the pick (whereas, Darnold could benefit from some amount of time watching/learning although a whole season might be too much)
If any QB is chosen, Eli will be cut after the 2018 season.
You aren't paying Eli a huge amount of money, in 2019. That cap is going towards OBJs new contract.
No thanks. If you want to take a huge injury risk, take Lamar Jackson.
If I'm an odds maker, the chacnes of him having a good season are worse than the chances of him having a season similar to 2016/2017. However, OBJ will make his numbers look good.
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Plays well. He will be allowed to finish his contract at a minimum. Are you ok w Rosen sitting 2 years?
Wouldn't have a problem with it. Aaron Rodgers sat for 3.
No high pick QB is going to sit for multiple years again. The way the rookie deal is structured means it's madness to have them sit and waste multiple cost controlled years.
He sits 2 years, has one year to bed in as starter (while you hope sitting for two years will acclimatize him he'll probably require starts), at the end of that first year you'll need to decide on whether to give him the option which for number 2 will be a salary equal to the average of the 10 highest salaries at their position (i.e a massive amount for a QB: $24.9 million this year, and with the QB contracts coming due you're probably looking at closer to $27 million plus).
The rookie QB contract allows you to do what the Rams and to a lesser extent the Eagles have done. Stock up in free agency and maintain quality depth across the squad, sign your successful picks to 2nd contracts.
Even if you could get Eli to take minimum (when has a manning ever left money on the table?), if we sign a QB, this is Eli's final year.
If I'm an odds maker, the chacnes of him having a good season are worse than the chances of him having a season similar to 2016/2017. However, OBJ will make his numbers look good.
How can anyone, especially most people on this board assess how good Eli is at this point? He spent most of the season last year throwing to street free agents with one of the worst offensive lines in the league and virtually no running game. This is getting ridiculous. What QB would have been successful here last year?
Just like in Green Bay right?
We're talking bigger,faster and harder hitting players in a league that actually does have defenses, unlike the Pac 12.
Exactly, the guy sits in the pocket forever, he’s going to get killed in the NFL doing that.
Either Gettleman is a master poker player or he's as transparent as can be. To me, all of the signs point to QB, all of the words point to Barkley.
Everything they've done since November of last year tells me that they are focused on finding Eli's successor. Everything they've said since then has led me to believe they love Barkley. Time will tell.
The durability is scary. The first time he gets hurt and misses significant time, Gettleman will get roasted. What if he is out of the league in 5 years?
Its just a question of whether you want to take the risk. Its not an easy decision.
We're talking bigger,faster and harder hitting players in a league that actually does have defenses, unlike the Pac 12.
He was tough as nails against some very good Texas A&M defenses. That should not be discounted. Anytime a QB shreds an SEC caliber defense with their arm will open my eyes.
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Had on WFAN at about 5AM...the host, JJ, who is a NYG fan, said he expects Eli to continue to struggle in 2018. Essentially says passing on a QB would be dereliction of duty by Gettleman.
and on and on and on....
Mayfield has had 3 and a possible fourth and is a smaller guy than Josh.
I'm not too worried about the concussions truthfully.
Fear of Rosen staying on the field a big part of the reason.
The OP is right. If the Giants do the smart thing and draft a QB at 2 that QB (especially if it's Rosen) will sit for just one year and then start the following year, and Manning will be gone. (And if the Giants have a poor record at mid-year next year, Rosen could even take over sooner.)
Farve was still playing well and Rodgers was a late 1st RD pick. That's why GB could afford to let him sit for 3 years.
Eli is NOT playing well and his QB replacement (in this scenario) will have been the 2nd overall pick. Those type of picks don't sit for 2 years.
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In comment 13930062 jtgiants said:
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Plays well. He will be allowed to finish his contract at a minimum. Are you ok w Rosen sitting 2 years?
Wouldn't have a problem with it. Aaron Rodgers sat for 3.
No high pick QB is going to sit for multiple years again. The way the rookie deal is structured means it's madness to have them sit and waste multiple cost controlled years.
He sits 2 years, has one year to bed in as starter (while you hope sitting for two years will acclimatize him he'll probably require starts), at the end of that first year you'll need to decide on whether to give him the option which for number 2 will be a salary equal to the average of the 10 highest salaries at their position (i.e a massive amount for a QB: $24.9 million this year, and with the QB contracts coming due you're probably looking at closer to $27 million plus).
The rookie QB contract allows you to do what the Rams and to a lesser extent the Eagles have done. Stock up in free agency and maintain quality depth across the squad, sign your successful picks to 2nd contracts.
Even if you could get Eli to take minimum (when has a manning ever left money on the table?), if we sign a QB, this is Eli's final year.
Excellent analysis. if we draft a QB, Eli will be gone after 2018.
Anyone who believes that is sorely mistaken.
Interesting cause Baker Mayfield has had 2 concussions yet no one mentions yet. I'm willing to bet that most football players have had at least 1 concussion. I got one when I played.
Yup, for me either. ...and, as I have written before, Rosen's father is an orthopedic spine surgeon. So, you would think he would be more conservative in advising his son of the long term dangers should he suffer additional concussions.
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Sorry, posted this on the wrong thread!
I'm not sure I am following. I was a big Tom Coughlin supporter, but I def understood that it was time for a change. Unfortunately the change was for the worse with MacAdoo.
The OP is right. If the Giants do the smart thing and draft a QB at 2 that QB (especially if it's Rosen) will sit for just one year and then start the following year, and Manning will be gone. (And if the Giants have a poor record at mid-year next year, Rosen could even take over sooner.)
Farve was still playing well and Rodgers was a late 1st RD pick. That's why GB could afford to let him sit for 3 years.
Eli is NOT playing well and his QB replacement (in this scenario) will have been the 2nd overall pick. Those type of picks don't sit for 2 years.
One thing I'd say is that Rosen is coming out as a true junior and is barely 21 years old. Eli came out after his senior year. Sitting on the bench for two years is not the worst thing in the world for Rosen. I personally think that NFL teams are rushing QBs out there way too fast nowadays. Some definitely have had success in year 1; most who have had real success in year 1 though have taken a step back in year 2--probably because opposing defenses have more film of them and are able to game plan them better. Carson Wentz has been rare, like Andrew Luck. One thing both had in common was age and experience.
If Eli plays well next year and looks like he has another year left, and the Giants can fit him under the cap (something made more possible by trading JPP and maybe waiving Olivier Vernon next year if they find a viable pass rusher in this year's draft AND next year), I'm fine with sitting a QB for 2 years while Eli plays behind a re-vamped O-Line in 2 years.
Think about it from his (and his agent's) point of view. Unless he is planning on retiring after the 2019 season (not likely), there is little to be gained from spending it as a "lame duck" with the Giants. He is more likely to decrease his market value than increase it.
Ergo he is more likely to quietly demand a trade than he is to turn one down, especially if the trade comes with a contract extension (similar to the Chiefs-Redskins trade involving Alex Smith). And the timing could be especially ripe for a trade if the reports are true of it being a down year for QBs coming out of college.
I remember reading that, too. But that was not a smooth transition at all. And they drafted Rodgers #24, not in the top five. That was a bitter divorce between Favre and Packs Central. Plus, it's been well chronicled that Favre wasn't the most amiable mentor to Rodgers.
And if he gets another concussion Shurmur can decide to give Webb his chance too...