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So if Sy is to be trusted...

GiantNatty : 4/25/2018 10:47 am

...(and I think I speak for BBI by saying that if there's one scout that's earned our trust, it's Sy), then Rosen is the best QB prospect he's graded since he started doing his grades in 2013. By a wide margin. Sy gave Rosen a grade of 89. The next closest during that timeframe? Mayfield and Goff at 86. Wentz was graded at an 82. Webb? 74.

By my count, there have been 11 franchise QBs* drafted during that timeframe (including zero from 2013). According to Sy, Rosen is a better prospect than every single one of them. But somehow there are too many question marks for the QBs coming out this year? So Rosen is not a franchise QB? If Rosen is there, you grab him and you don't think twice.


* Trubisky, Watson, Mahomes, Goff, Wentz, Prescott, Winston, Mariotta, Carr, Bortles, and Garappolo.
Yep  
jeff57 : 4/25/2018 10:49 am : link
.
And yet signs point to Rosen dropping..  
Jim in Forest Hills : 4/25/2018 10:49 am : link
I hope Sy is right and I hope Rosen is in blue next year.
Rosen may be the best  
Gman11 : 4/25/2018 10:50 am : link
QB prospect, but is he a risk of being injury prone? You have to take that into account as much as all the statistics.
Dave Te' thinks Rosen is a terrible pick  
AnnapolisMike : 4/25/2018 10:51 am : link
Just goes to show how there seems to be so little consistency. That said...the only evaluations that matter are the Giants evaluations.
RE: And yet signs point to Rosen dropping..  
firedbytheboss : 4/25/2018 10:51 am : link
In comment 13930225 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
I hope Sy is right and I hope Rosen is in blue next year.


Rosens not dropping. He will go 2 or 3.
I Don't think many are  
TrueBlue56 : 4/25/2018 10:52 am : link
Really questioning the talent of Rosen. The concern is durability. He has had 2 concussions. I Don't Know what the medical reports say or what the consensus is around the league, but that is a potential huge risk.
it's interesting  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/25/2018 10:52 am : link
to see such a wide discrepancy of opinions on all of the top QBs in this draft.
Most of those “franchise” QBs are still wannabe’s.  
Ivan15 : 4/25/2018 10:54 am : link
I trust Sy’56 but it is still only one man’s opinion.

Maybe he scored Rosen higher because he reminds him of his brother.

Don’t focus on what one person thinks.
There is consistency. Its Rosen  
twostepgiants : 4/25/2018 10:55 am : link
Here is the consensus board which takes 35 boards into account. Rosen top QB at #4 overall.
Consensus Board - ( New Window )
Eye of the beholder.....  
George from PA : 4/25/2018 10:55 am : link
Andrew Luck must have gotten a higher score.....

Also, Sy do not actually see them in person....which everyone says makes a difference.
Mahomes is a franchise QB?  
Mike from Ohio : 4/25/2018 10:57 am : link
He has literally played one NFL game. ONE.
RE: it's interesting  
Andy in Boston : 4/25/2018 10:58 am : link
In comment 13930237 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
to see such a wide discrepancy of opinions on all of the top QBs in this draft.


Which to me is a red flag - it wasn’t like that in 2004
RE: RE: And yet signs point to Rosen dropping..  
baadbill : 4/25/2018 10:58 am : link
In comment 13930234 firedbytheboss said:
Quote:
In comment 13930225 Jim in Forest Hills said:


Quote:


I hope Sy is right and I hope Rosen is in blue next year.



Rosens not dropping. He will go 2 or 3.


The only place Rosen is dropping (or not dropping) is on make believe pretend mock drafts - which have zero to do with the actual thinking of GMs of NFL teams.
RE: Eye of the beholder.....  
est1986 : 4/25/2018 10:58 am : link
In comment 13930245 George from PA said:
Quote:
Andrew Luck must have gotten a higher score.....

Also, Sy do not actually see them in person....which everyone says makes a difference.


He does/has seen some in person
RE: And yet signs point to Rosen dropping..  
barens : 4/25/2018 11:00 am : link
In comment 13930225 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
I hope Sy is right and I hope Rosen is in blue next year.


Rosen isn't dropping until the draft starts, that's a case of don't believe everything you hear.
Sy does a great job, but let’s face it:  
Crispino : 4/25/2018 11:01 am : link
Guys who get paid a lot of money, and have far more experience than Sy, or Mayock, or Kiper are consistently wrong in their assessments. Nobody has a lock on the accuracy of their assessments. They are educated guesses, but guesses just the same. There are no guaranteed right picks.
RE: RE: it's interesting  
Mike in NY : 4/25/2018 11:02 am : link
In comment 13930254 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
In comment 13930237 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


to see such a wide discrepancy of opinions on all of the top QBs in this draft.



Which to me is a red flag - it wasn’t like that in 2004


I don't think it is a red flag. There was debate on Goff vs. Wentz, Luck vs. RGIII, Manning vs. Leaf. The bigger red flag to me is that Rosen could not stay healthy in college and it wasn't just concussions. Look at how Green Bay struggled when Aaron Rodgers was hurt or Dallas with Tony Romo late in his career. With Rosen you need to have a back-up who is capable of being an NFL starter, journeyman back-up is not good enough.
I hope that Colin is right  
Jay on the Island : 4/25/2018 11:02 am : link
that Rosen will be the pick.
RE: Eye of the beholder.....  
GiantFilthy : 4/25/2018 11:03 am : link
In comment 13930245 George from PA said:
Quote:
Andrew Luck must have gotten a higher score.....

Also, Sy do not actually see them in person....which everyone says makes a difference.

Luck was 2012.
RE: RE: it's interesting  
twostepgiants : 4/25/2018 11:05 am : link
In comment 13930254 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
In comment 13930237 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


to see such a wide discrepancy of opinions on all of the top QBs in this draft.



Which to me is a red flag - it wasn’t like that in 2004


This is so not true, There was wide variety of opinions of who would be the best QB. Big Ben had the biggest “upside” but was biggest risk, Rivers had the “best arm” but a quirky delivery. Everyone asked what if Eli’s last name was Smith- he wouldn’t be #1.

What there was consensus on was that Eli would go #1. Much like the idea that Darnold is to go #1.

They were heavily critiqued and many had different ideas on who was best.
RE: RE: RE: it's interesting  
twostepgiants : 4/25/2018 11:06 am : link
In comment 13930274 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13930254 Andy in Boston said:


Quote:


In comment 13930237 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


to see such a wide discrepancy of opinions on all of the top QBs in this draft.



Which to me is a red flag - it wasn’t like that in 2004



I don't think it is a red flag. There was debate on Goff vs. Wentz, Luck vs. RGIII, Manning vs. Leaf. The bigger red flag to me is that Rosen could not stay healthy in college and it wasn't just concussions. Look at how Green Bay struggled when Aaron Rodgers was hurt or Dallas with Tony Romo late in his career. With Rosen you need to have a back-up who is capable of being an NFL starter, journeyman back-up is not good enough.


Rosen had one other injury. A soft tissue injury in his shoulder which is really like a muscle strain.
To be clear though  
UConn4523 : 4/25/2018 11:06 am : link
isn't Dave Te dinging him hard for health/injury concerns? That is absolutely my #1 criticism but if that's mainly where their rating differs I think its fair to say that if the Giants are fine with the risk, than their ratings would be a lot more close?
I became a believer in Rosen during the USC game  
Jay on the Island : 4/25/2018 11:11 am : link
There was one play where a rusher was free up the middle and Rosen saw him but stood tall in the pocket and delivered a perfect pass right before he got crushed. It reminded me so much of Eli during the 2011 NFC championship game versus SF. Now at the beginning of the process I was concerned about the concussions but as time has gone by I have become a big believer in Rosen.
For the Most Impactful Position in sports  
EB222 : 4/25/2018 11:12 am : link
Rosen. And I'm going nuts because if you've watched them play,
it isn't close.
I do not like Rosen at all  
The 12th Man : 4/25/2018 11:14 am : link
his talent may be great but his cockiness is not what this team needs. We already have a WR who considers himself to be the best those 2 in the same locker room no thanks. He will be all about the almighty dollar in 5 years. I like silent leaders for your QB. If we are going to go for a QB I hope it is Darnold or Allen.
Agreed that it's not close  
GiantNatty : 4/25/2018 11:19 am : link
Rosen has special passing ability - there's a little Peyton in there.

To the point about Luck, he was drafted in 2012, so one year before Sy started doing his grades. But sure, the grade on Luck would likely have been very high.

As to the point about Mahomes (and Trubisky too), the point isn't that these guys are well-established franchise QBs, it's that their organizations have shown that they trust these guys to be their guys for the future; that they've shown promise. Also, if you ask me if I would love to have Mahomes waiting in the wings, my answer be "absolutely." And again, Rosen was graded as an even better prospect.
Here's the thing.. (just a guess here)  
Tom from LI : 4/25/2018 11:21 am : link
The current teams jockeying for a QB this year historically have sucked at selecting a QB in the pass. For whatever reason they just seem to fall short in grading and scouting them.

This is where I give the Giants a distinct advantage in the scouting of a QB. I think that Gettlemen and Accorsi still talk and I think if there is a QB worth their draft status they would be better judges of it. Since Accorsi did go all in on Eli and that worked out.

It could be possible that Rosen has been their target all along. Maybe since they are blowing smoke about Chubb, Barkley, Allen and Darnold (All picks that interest the Browns a great deal) because they probably believe that the Giants know what they are looking at for a franchise QB. Throw them off the track. It seems like Gettlemen has them thinking of all these players but 1, Rosen.

Now here is the too cute part. The Jets sitting at 3 are a definite landing spot for Rosen so trading back with the Browns @ 4 could be seen as being "too cute". I have a friend that is pretty tuned in with the Jets (has a connection) and since Feb he has been saying the Jets are targeting to draft Mayfield. He did say this to me the other night, Rosen is picking up steam but Mayfield is still the target.

All I can say is I trust whatever DG decides to do.

Listen, we all love Eli and know this team isn't getting fixed enough this year to make a serious run for the Super Bowl. I hope we improve enough to be a thorn in the NFC East's playoff plans.

I wasn't a fan of Rosen at all but I am starting to warm to the idea of accepting him being drafted and having Webb as a solid backup/understudy.

I don't see the issue of letting Rosen sit for up to 2 years but I don't think it will take that long.

I do believe the changing of the guard is coming and it will be sooner than we all think.


I feel like the "red flags" of the '04 class were much more trivial  
Knee of Theismann : 4/25/2018 11:39 am : link
Rivers' quirky delivery.

Eli's last name?

Big Ben... I don't even remember.

RE: I feel like the  
UConn4523 : 4/25/2018 11:41 am : link
In comment 13930401 Knee of Theismann said:
Quote:
Rivers' quirky delivery.

Eli's last name?

Big Ben... I don't even remember.


Rivers delivery is worse than Darnolds, it was definitely an issue (or would be magnified now due to today's over exposure). Eli it was turnovers. Also can't remember Ben's outside of level of competition.
my prediction  
giantfan2000 : 4/25/2018 11:41 am : link
I actually think Rosen ends up with Jets .
RE: I do not like Rosen at all  
UConn4523 : 4/25/2018 11:42 am : link
In comment 13930328 The 12th Man said:
Quote:
his talent may be great but his cockiness is not what this team needs. We already have a WR who considers himself to be the best those 2 in the same locker room no thanks. He will be all about the almighty dollar in 5 years. I like silent leaders for your QB. If we are going to go for a QB I hope it is Darnold or Allen.


You know Eli was/is about the almighty dollar too, right? And why wouldn't we pay him top dollar if he was a great QB?

Odd reason not to like him.
Sy actually said  
Dave on the UWS : 4/25/2018 11:43 am : link
that if he could guarantee Rosen staying on the field he would have given him a 90+ rating (elite level). You take the gamble on this player if that's the case.
There are other prospects  
Jay in Toronto : 4/25/2018 11:45 am : link
that Sy ranks uniquely high, like Oliver.

I hope the other teams go with the crowd and he'd be sitting there at 34 and we grab him.
My qualm with Rosen has always been the concussion/injury  
widmerseyebrow : 4/25/2018 11:54 am : link
risk. No one wants the next Chad Pennington. If we take him, I'll be hoping we draft OL for the rest of our picks because our line, on paper, is horrifying.
If we're using Sy  
Tim in VA : 4/25/2018 11:57 am : link
Didn't he say Barkley is the best prospect he has ever evaluated?
RE: I do not like Rosen at all  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/25/2018 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13930328 The 12th Man said:
Quote:
He will be all about the almighty dollar in 5 years. I like silent leaders for your QB. If we are going to go for a QB I hope it is Darnold or Allen.


Fair time to note Eli Manning has never taken a nickel less and also taken home about a quarter of a billion dollarsin his career.
Tim no  
Dave on the UWS : 4/25/2018 12:02 pm : link
He had Andrew luck and Megatron higher. Rosen is the 2nd highest QB he's evaluated. If they let him sit for a "good" year, then he shouldn't be a major risk, no more than any other QB playing behind a crappy line.
I cannot fathom taking a QB @ 2  
Giants in 07 : 4/25/2018 12:03 pm : link
That may be one concussion away from his career being over.

I guess you could say that about any player, but if two QB's are close in the giants eyes, I can't see them picking Rosen.
I don't agree with over half of what Sy says...  
bw in dc : 4/25/2018 12:04 pm : link
but the guy actually watches players play. And that's good enough for me to always read his evaluations.

And he's dead wrong on LamJax, who will be the best QB in this draft... ;)
RE: Tim no  
Knee of Theismann : 4/25/2018 12:07 pm : link
In comment 13930461 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
He had Andrew luck and Megatron higher. Rosen is the 2nd highest QB he's evaluated. If they let him sit for a "good" year, then he shouldn't be a major risk, no more than any other QB playing behind a crappy line.


Curious, where are Sy's ratings from pre-2013? Luck? Megatron?? Megatron was '07.
The big ? on Rosen is longevity  
Rudy5757 : 4/25/2018 12:17 pm : link
Some scouts may be weighing the injuries more than others. He is probably the best QB as it is today and not many would argue that.

His Dad I believe is a Neurosurgeon or something like that. What if his Dad told him one more concussion and you should hang it up son. Its a big what if but teams surely have to take that into account. His playing style is more prone to take big hits as well.

I dont think he is long for the NFL and I would steer clear. As DG states, you need to picture this guy with a Gold Jacket and you dont get that without a long career at QB.
Andrew Luck was a 93  
Sy'56 : 4/25/2018 12:29 pm : link
Calvin Johnson was a 96.

And I don't want to tell you where I had Aaron Curry and Trent Richardson....
RE: Andrew Luck was a 93  
est1986 : 4/25/2018 12:35 pm : link
In comment 13930576 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Calvin Johnson was a 96.

And I don't want to tell you where I had Aaron Curry and Trent Richardson....


Any one player that didn’t pan out that you are most surprised by? Is it Curry or Richardson?
RE: RE: Andrew Luck was a 93  
Sy'56 : 4/25/2018 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13930598 est1986 said:
Quote:
In comment 13930576 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


Calvin Johnson was a 96.

And I don't want to tell you where I had Aaron Curry and Trent Richardson....



Any one player that didn’t pan out that you are most surprised by? Is it Curry or Richardson?


Curry. I was "positive" about him
I think everyone was positive on Curry  
Boatie Warrant : 4/25/2018 12:48 pm : link
They guy was a beast in college and looked head and shoulders above every LB at the Combine. I wanted him on the Giants so bad. Guys like this is what makes you wonder what went wrong
Sy  
Boatie Warrant : 4/25/2018 12:50 pm : link
Did you ever rate JaMarcus Russell??
RE: I feel like the  
twostepgiants : 4/25/2018 12:51 pm : link
In comment 13930401 Knee of Theismann said:
Quote:
Rivers' quirky delivery.

Eli's last name?

Big Ben... I don't even remember.


More trivial then hes "too smart" or "he will retire when daddy tells him to"?
RE: RE: I do not like Rosen at all  
The 12th Man : 4/25/2018 2:32 pm : link
In comment 13930414 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13930328 The 12th Man said:


Quote:


his talent may be great but his cockiness is not what this team needs. We already have a WR who considers himself to be the best those 2 in the same locker room no thanks. He will be all about the almighty dollar in 5 years. I like silent leaders for your QB. If we are going to go for a QB I hope it is Darnold or Allen.



You know Eli was/is about the almighty dollar too, right? And why wouldn't we pay him top dollar if he was a great QB?

Odd reason not to like him.


Eli never said he was the best or wanted to be the best of all time. He never held out or held up the organization. He got the money that was deserved which is what Rosen would get if he is worth it. Can you imagine the press going after this guy if he fails after calling himself the best QB in this draft. Look just go out play football let your play speak for itself. I think it is a mistake when your QB talks to much. Brady, Montana, Unitas, Elway, Bradshaw etc.. never declared themselves the greatest. They played the game and let the wins speak for themselves. I believe Roaen will be a disaster if drafted by either NY team.
I just don't see why people need their QBs to be robots.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/25/2018 3:22 pm : link
And the idea that brady is without ego is laughable.
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